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lexa21
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.11.09 21:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
Short: If You think that new battlecruisers have REALLY LOW effective hit points and tank please type something like agree or signed as an answer to this topic.
Long: I was on test server few days ago. I saw new battlecruisers. They have a problems. 1st no chance to take of any frigate in disruptor range. 2nd they have no shields\armor\structure or resources to change this situation. I tried active and passive tank but in first situation there were no cap regeneration to fit actual hp regeneration (300 ehp/sec on faction npc without ab is the top situation on t2 modules) in second there is no chance to fit it better than cruiser with big pen... guns.In fact there were no pg and cap to fit dual armor rep, no cap for stable large shield booster work, no base hp and pg for good passive tank.
Ok. Weakness against small ships is a payment for great dps. But low tank make those ships useless in pve and their only role in pvp would be suicide impossible missions (except minmatars one).
This is my point of view and i want CCP knows if i`m not alone. Thks for reading. |
ElQuirko
Boxxed Up Industries
9
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Posted - 2011.11.09 21:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
O RLY NAO? ALERT THE PRESIDENT! |
Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
176
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Posted - 2011.11.09 21:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jeez if only CCP put that in their devblog ... oh wait. Imagine playing Donkey Kong where every barrel looks like it hits you. Would you rather I fix the barrels or Kong's shadow?
Welcome to Eve Online where lasers are dumber than barrels! |
Algathas
Drama Llamas
3
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Posted - 2011.11.09 21:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Seems like they are working as intended. |
Hienz Doofenshmirtz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2011.11.09 21:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
oddly enough I have also flown the new ships on the test server. now I do't know your skills your your fitting abilities, but for me my first attempt came up with a ship with 500 dps and a 75k ehp buffer tank. now that's not great or anything but it has been able to tank a triple bs spawn in 0.0 and clear it much faster than a drake could |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
787
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Posted - 2011.11.09 21:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Who cares? They will still take out exhumers before concord blows them up. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
26
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Posted - 2011.11.09 21:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
These ships are not meant for fighting frigs, or even cruisers. They certainly are not meant to fly without support. |
bornaa
GRiD.
28
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Posted - 2011.11.09 21:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
lexa21 wrote:Short: If You think that new battlecruisers have REALLY LOW effective hit points and tank please type something like agree or signed as an answer to this topic.
Long: I was on test server few days ago. I saw new battlecruisers. They have a problems. 1st no chance to take of any frigate in disruptor range. 2nd they have no shields\armor\structure or resources to change this situation. I tried active and passive tank but in first situation there were no cap regeneration to fit actual hp regeneration (300 ehp/sec on faction npc without ab is the top situation on t2 modules) in second there is no chance to fit it better than cruiser with big pen... guns.In fact there were no pg and cap to fit dual armor rep, no cap for stable large shield booster work, no base hp and pg for good passive tank.
Ok. Weakness against small ships is a payment for great dps. But low tank make those ships useless in pve and their only role in pvp would be suicide impossible missions (except minmatars one).
This is my point of view and i want CCP knows if i`m not alone. Thks for reading.
Working as intended... |
Velicitia
Open Designs
79
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Posted - 2011.11.09 21:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
funny, I seem to recall something about "glass cannons" in one of the recent devblogs ... could it have been referencing these new BCs? |
Zagam
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
230
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Posted - 2011.11.09 21:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
lexa21 wrote:
Long: I was on test server few days ago. I saw new battlecruisers. They have a problems. 1st no chance to take of any frigate in disruptor range. 2nd they have no shields\armor\structure or resources to change this situation. I tried active and passive tank but in first situation there were no cap regeneration to fit actual hp regeneration (300 ehp/sec on faction npc without ab is the top situation on t2 modules) in second there is no chance to fit it better than cruiser with big pen... guns.In fact there were no pg and cap to fit dual armor rep, no cap for stable large shield booster work, no base hp and pg for good passive tank.
.....
You have never PvPed, have you? And somehow, I don't think you've ever left hisec either...
In PvP, you generally have to choose between gank and tank. You can tank to no end (i.e.: you are Drake bait), and can't do jack for gank... or you can gank very well, and die in a fire the moment you get primaried.
There is absolutely no reason to have both tank and gank on a single hull.
You must have a weakness, and a strength.
lexa21 wrote:
their only role in pvp would be suicide impossible missions (except minmatars one).
And finally... WHY THE HECK would you put "pvp" and "mission" in the same phrase?
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Jita Alt666
496
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Posted - 2011.11.09 21:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Thread of the day. Thank you for bringing this massive oversight to our attention. |
T' Elk
Happy Little Spaceships
125
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Posted - 2011.11.09 21:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
You sir have made my day. Carry on. God wears-áRay Ban Aviators. |
The Offerer
Republic University Minmatar Republic
45
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Posted - 2011.11.09 21:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
lexa21 wrote:Short: If You think that new battlecruisers have REALLY LOW effective hit points and tank please type something like agree or signed as an answer to this topic.
Long: I was on test server few days ago. I saw new battlecruisers. They have a problems. 1st no chance to take of any frigate in disruptor range. 2nd they have no shields\armor\structure or resources to change this situation. I tried active and passive tank but in first situation there were no cap regeneration to fit actual hp regeneration (300 ehp/sec on faction npc without ab is the top situation on t2 modules) in second there is no chance to fit it better than cruiser with big pen... guns.In fact there were no pg and cap to fit dual armor rep, no cap for stable large shield booster work, no base hp and pg for good passive tank.
Ok. Weakness against small ships is a payment for great dps. But low tank make those ships useless in pve and their only role in pvp would be suicide impossible missions (except minmatars one).
This is my point of view and i want CCP knows if i`m not alone. Thks for reading.
It's supposed to be that way.
- They are BC sized (agility, signature radius, speed,... of a BC); - They have BS sized guns and a lot of DPS - Too much tank and they will render other BCs obsolete (maybe even some BSs) - Too much "precision" at hitting smaller targets and they'll make HACs obsolete - Too much of both mentioned and you can forget about flying anything else |
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries SRS.
27
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Posted - 2011.11.09 21:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
I love the new bc's, they are well balanced with the rest of the game and a lot of fun to fly. If you gave them more tank they would start to get pretty OP |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
235
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Posted - 2011.11.09 22:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Working as intended. |
Trainwreck McGee
Ghost Ship Inc.
111
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Posted - 2011.11.09 22:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
aaaaaaa nice EVE forums are back to normal
people whining that something is OP people whining about that very same thing being underpowered.
IT IS GOOD TO BE BACK CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |
Roime
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
10
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Posted - 2011.11.09 22:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
It is possible that these posters have someone to help them to get past the difficult EvE login screen
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Botleten
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
167
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Posted - 2011.11.09 22:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
Is this goal of this thread to point out the obvious? Obviously if it has more DPS than other BCs its going to have to lose out somewhere else in order to remain balanced. |
Cunane Jeran
47
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Posted - 2011.11.09 22:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Someone missed the design memo that has been plastered everywhere since they were first announced.
Working as Intended. |
Lucien Visteen
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
45
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Posted - 2011.11.09 22:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Two words.
Glass Cannon |
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
72
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Posted - 2011.11.09 22:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
They are Battlecruisers. They are ingame to bring big guns against enemy BS for a fraction of a BS cost, to the price of not having BS protection.
It's the first ship class in EVE to live to its real navy counterparts. So... no affordable NEx store... no full-fledged Incarna... no new casual content... no new solo content... no new PvE content...-á
Why should I keep paying to play this game? |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
469
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Posted - 2011.11.09 22:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Zagam wrote: There is absolutely no reason to have both tank and gank on a single hull.
You must have a weakness, and a strength.
Ever flown an Abaddon? Harbinger? Retribution? Plated Hurricane? Dual-rep Fleet Stabber? A Maelstrom?
Lots of ships have both tank and gank. Usually though, having both comes at the cost of speed, or lack of ewar, or lack of tackle. So no, some fits don't have to choose between the two. Most though, end up on a spectrum somewhere though, where increasing one decreases the other.
These tier 3 BC's though, are definitley not supposed to have tanks.
Think of them like larger sized destroyers - relatively weak hitpoint wise, but very hard hitting. Sniper HAC's are also a good analogy - the Tornado is similar to a Muninn in that it'll be weak and vulnerable to tackle and must kite its prey at range.
Anyone expecting to do PvE in these will be mostly disappointed, they are not meant to solo that kind of abuse. They are meant to be fielded in gangs amongst escort ships that can shred tackling frigates and proper logistical support. They are PvP in design, and will only be useful with a good amount of teamwork. Definitely not solo boats.
Bringing along a couple of destroyers will very much help these ship defend themselves from the small stuff.
As others have said, these are working as intended, I wouldn't expect any major adjustments.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
104
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Posted - 2011.11.09 22:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:These ships are not meant for fighting frigs, or even cruisers. They certainly are not meant to fly without support.
Hence the destroyers' boost (or removal of pen).
The idea is, the Tier 3 BC does the damage, the dessie or frigs keep the smaller ships off.
Kind of like a Penn & Teller act.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
153
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Posted - 2011.11.09 22:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
I think they also need a penalty to tracking and webs or something to ensure that they can only hit BC/BS+ Ideas & stuff No matter the changes, high sec people chose the safests. Lots of stick and they will leave. Half the problem is the players in null sec; we do not want to be there with you. |
Diosas
Comply Or Die
0
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Posted - 2011.11.09 22:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
Yes they are supposed to, they are pretty much gang gank ships. They are not really for solo purposes. |
Name Family Name
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
47
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Posted - 2011.11.09 22:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:They are Battlecruisers. They are ingame to bring big guns against enemy BS for a fraction of a BS cost, to the price of not having BS protection.
It's the first ship class in EVE to live to its real navy counterparts.
looking at the blueprints, they're projected to be around 50 mill, using 8 big guns, so around the price of a Tier 1 BS.
Other than rig costs, there's not much of a difference betweeen a Tier 1 BS and a Tier 3 BC - not exactly a fraction of the price. |
Petrus Blackshell
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
33
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Posted - 2011.11.09 22:56:00 -
[27] - Quote
7.63/10.
Deducted points for not enough rage. |
Jace Errata
Cobalt Valkyrie Industries The Ambivalent
20
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Posted - 2011.11.09 23:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
Once more for Great Justice:
Working as intended. Let's...just assume there's some kind of signature here, 'k? ... ... OH WAIT. Jace Errata on Twitter |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
72
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Posted - 2011.11.09 23:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
Name Family Name wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:They are Battlecruisers. They are ingame to bring big guns against enemy BS for a fraction of a BS cost, to the price of not having BS protection.
It's the first ship class in EVE to live to its real navy counterparts. looking at the blueprints, they're projected to be around 50 mill, using 8 big guns, so around the price of a Tier 1 BS. Other than rig costs, there's not much of a difference betweeen a Tier 1 BS and a Tier 3 BC - not exactly a fraction of the price.
What maths are you doing? A BC T3 haves the same guns (check), a cheaper tank and a cheaper hull plus cheaper rigs. So... no affordable NEx store... no full-fledged Incarna... no new casual content... no new solo content... no new PvE content...-á
Why should I keep paying to play this game? |
Zions Child
Odyssey Inc SpaceMonkey's Alliance
23
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Posted - 2011.11.09 23:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
[] Fail thread [] Troll Thread [] Epic Thread
You can only choose two. |
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