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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
512
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Posted - 2014.02.06 08:35:00 -
[61] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:Not gonna read 3 pages since I gatther its the usual case of htfu..if not asked yet already, who did you **** off to where they think a night of bumping your frieighter is a worthwhile use of time? and what did you do to get them that motivated to do this?
they born that way they are aholes:D
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Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
1222
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Posted - 2014.02.06 09:46:00 -
[62] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Invest in a couple of smartbombing battleships or gank the bumper.
Yep, cos that's not going to get those BS CONCORDed and Kill Rights now is it not to mention that it's an AoE weapon and could include innocents... Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2422
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Posted - 2014.02.06 10:28:00 -
[63] - Quote
JetStream Drenard wrote:I just don't get bumping as a mechanic to begin with, you ram people at full speed to knock them about. Nevermind the OP for a sec. What are we flying bumper cars? If you "bump" me with your car at full speed, you are going to to some physical damage to both of us (and you better have good insurance). So back to the OP, and all other bumping related activities, it is just a stupid and highly exploitable (by all, I do it too) game mechanic that makes absolutely no friggin sense to even have. But then you start down that road to Newtonian physics, and bullets that pass through objects to strike their target, and then it just devolves into CCP 'not gonna change.' So bring your suicide dessie along for the ride and blow up the bumper so you can align. (btw another pain in the rear, multi-boxing and those discussions too, bleah)
And why exactly dont freighters have any slots to fit mods? another pointed question
If you want any kind of realistic damage mechanics, then you want us to be able to destroy freighters using one T1 cruiser. A stabber with plates and an MWD has a silly amount of kinetic energy behind it, slam one of those into a freighter and bad things will happen. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2712
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Posted - 2014.02.06 10:43:00 -
[64] - Quote
Maximus Aerelius wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Invest in a couple of smartbombing battleships or gank the bumper. Yep, cos that's not going to get those BS CONCORDed and Kill Rights now is it not to mention that it's an AoE weapon and could include innocents... Then use something else. It's not my problem, you figure it out.
Oh god. |
Lilla Kharn
Militant Mermen
2
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Posted - 2014.02.06 10:44:00 -
[65] - Quote
Quote:However, persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment
I'm just going to leave this here, courtesy of GM Karidor.
Freighters are inherently trying to leave the area no?
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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2712
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Posted - 2014.02.06 10:48:00 -
[66] - Quote
Lilla Kharn wrote:Quote:However, persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment I'm just going to leave this here, courtesy of GM Karidor. Freighters are inherently trying to leave the area no? No, it means if the freighter has moved to another region to avoid being bumped and you follow them and keep bumping them with no intention of ganking them.
Oh god. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16640
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Posted - 2014.02.06 11:31:00 -
[67] - Quote
Lilla Kharn wrote:Quote:However, persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment I'm just going to leave this here, courtesy of GM Karidor. Freighters are inherently trying to leave the area no? But they haven't, so therefore the bumpers have not broken that rule.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Nag'o
Cuisinart Inc. Insidious Empire
55
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Posted - 2014.02.06 13:34:00 -
[68] - Quote
Thumb fighting online. Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality. |
Ammzi
Love Squad Black Legion.
1656
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Posted - 2014.02.06 17:23:00 -
[69] - Quote
I could give you a long list of things that would make you pretty much 99 % safe from all ganks, ever. But why should I?
Go figure out yourself you lazy piece of **** instead of demanding CCP to save your ass.
WoW is that way ---> |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
34
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Posted - 2014.02.06 17:52:00 -
[70] - Quote
Assuming that the consensus is that bumping in general is a bad mechanic and makes little logical sense, one solution to the problem would be to force ships to divert their path when heading directly into another ship. So for instance if a frigate was heading full speed towards a freighter, the autopilot would assume there is something wrong with the pilot and automatically change course temporarily to avoid the freighter. The would take some pretty clever coding by CCP and is the best solution to resolve the issue of bumping.
The other alternative would be to allow ships to collide causing damage to one another which would be easily exploitable.
The last solution would be to suppose that each ship is surrounded by a magnetic field (shield) and when these two fields collide they repel each other based upon the mass of each ship. For instance if a frigate charges into a freighter, then the frigate should bounce off and leave the freighter virtually untouched. Due to a Freighters mass, no other ship beside a Capital or another freighter (which cannot travel at high enough speeds to bump) would be able to significantly disrupt a freighters direction of travel.
Any of these solutions would be better than the current mechanics in my opinion. |
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1043
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:17:00 -
[71] - Quote
Really??
hi-sec is not safe. protect urself at all times. if u cannot be bothered to defend urself with the methods mentioned, plus the near infinite more ways u can if u just bothered to think outside the box, then u deserve to lose ur stuff. and the longer u take to realise that, the more stuff u will lose.
if u dnt like the idea of putting in effort to defend ur stuff, then what in gods name are u playing eve for? There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1253
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Posted - 2014.02.06 18:26:00 -
[72] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:mass wise frigates and smaller ships should just "fly on the windowscreen" on capital size ships and since freighters are capital size they should be bump immune to anything but other caps and perhaps battleships which would hold the nessesary mass x speed to make some form of differance
frigates are stil heavier than a 747 jet. Throw a 747 jet in an aricraft carrier and they will not squat at the windshield.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
BobFromMarketing
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
60
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Posted - 2014.02.06 19:06:00 -
[73] - Quote
Didn't even bother to read your link did you? Allow me to help you out here
Quote: These systems are policed by CONCORD which awards some safety from pirates. While CONCORD does not prevent acts of piracy in high security space, they will quickly respond to such acts and punish the perpetrator
Bolded the funny part for you. CONCORD is there to exact punishment, not guard you. You simply use it as a guard because you're lazy and complacent. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1253
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 19:42:00 -
[74] - Quote
BobFromMarketing wrote:Didn't even bother to read your link did you? Allow me to help you out here Quote: These systems are policed by CONCORD which awards some safety from pirates. While CONCORD does not prevent acts of piracy in high security space, they will quickly respond to such acts and punish the perpetrator Bolded the funny part for you. CONCORD is there to exact punishment, not guard you. You simply use it as a guard because you're lazy and complacent.
Its exactly how works in real life. Police cannot prevent you from being hit by a guy with a baseball bat in the street. But the fact that the guy will be arrested if he does so is what makes unlikely that he will do it.
Why works better in real life? Because the punishment is MUCH more severe and is not forgotten 15 minutes later. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Mazzara
Gale Force Contractors
2
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Posted - 2014.02.06 20:46:00 -
[75] - Quote
Gankers are so funny, they use any means necessary to justify them using what is pretty clearly an exploit, but the second someone makes a post about how to fix it suddenly the poster is breaking the game.
if a ganker wants to keep someone from flying away they should have to use the modules that everyone else has to and risk getting concorded like everyone else. |
Cassie Helio
Push Industries Push Interstellar Network
14
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Posted - 2014.02.06 20:53:00 -
[76] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:[quote=BobFromMarketing]
Its exactly how works in real life. Police cannot prevent you from being hit by a guy with a baseball bat in the street. But the fact that the guy will be arrested if he does so is what makes unlikely that he will do it.
Why works better in real life? Because the punishment is MUCH more severe and is not forgotten 15 minutes later.
It's funny you said this because I was thinking about it earlier. Actually in real life if you were shoving someone around but not actually causing them harm, you would be suspicious. Police would not be able to stop anyone from hitting you with a baseball bat (the gank squad) but if someone was shoving you around for 30 minutes first (the bumper) police would pay attention to that. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1044
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Posted - 2014.02.06 21:34:00 -
[77] - Quote
Mazzara wrote:Gankers are so funny, they use any means necessary to justify them using what is pretty clearly an exploit, but the second someone makes a post about how to fix it suddenly the poster is breaking the game.
if a ganker wants to keep someone from flying away they should have to use the modules that everyone else has to and risk getting concorded like everyone else.
cause sitting on the jita undock and having ppl go suspect for bumping into u wouldnt break the game at all. use ur common sense man ffs. it took less than 5 seconds to think of the problem with the idea the FIRST time it was brought up months ago when goons started using this bumping tactic. If other freighter pilots, like myself, can adapt so can u. Adapt or GTFO.
Bumping is part of the game. used for tackling, area denial, getting ppl off of station or out the POS shield, breaking logi chains and any number of advantages u can gain by affecting ur opponents trajectory. Why is it so important that u must have the right to be lazy, complacent and foolish with ur assets that all these other legitimate styles of play must suffer? i ask this especially when there are methods and tactics that can be, and are, employed to avoid the problem already.
Cassie Helio wrote:It's funny you said this because I was thinking about it earlier. Actually in real life if you were shoving someone around but not actually causing them harm, you would be suspicious. Police would not be able to stop anyone from hitting you with a baseball bat (the gank squad) but if someone was shoving you around for 30 minutes first (the bumper) police would pay attention to that.
real life and eve dont go hand in hand. Eve is what it is, but its closer to the wild west or mad max than RL today. get over it. There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1585
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Posted - 2014.02.06 22:28:00 -
[78] - Quote
issue with bumping is that it doesn't require you to even be worth ganking, they could just be ransoming your empty anshar.
The only solution is to log off, at which point they can suicide an ibis and keep you around indefinitely. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Cassie Helio
Push Industries Push Interstellar Network
15
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Posted - 2014.02.06 22:46:00 -
[79] - Quote
Batelle wrote:issue with bumping is that it doesn't require you to even be worth ganking, they could just be ransoming your empty anshar.
The only solution is to log off, at which point they can suicide an ibis and keep you around indefinitely.
They don't even need an Ibis. Logging off doesn't work when you're being bumped because your ship can't align to ewarp. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1589
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 23:15:00 -
[80] - Quote
Cassie Helio wrote:Batelle wrote:issue with bumping is that it doesn't require you to even be worth ganking, they could just be ransoming your empty anshar.
The only solution is to log off, at which point they can suicide an ibis and keep you around indefinitely. They don't even need an Ibis. Logging off doesn't work when you're being bumped because your ship can't align to ewarp.
ewarping is not necessary to disappear from space. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
55
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Posted - 2014.02.06 23:17:00 -
[81] - Quote
Daoden wrote:Petrified wrote:As much as it pains me to say it, and being someone who has freighter pilots in High Sec: this is not an exploit. That said, the real problem is why such a large kinetic energy transfer from a fast moving small object impacting a larger object causes no damage could address the issue easily. Reducing the effectiveness of bumping (by taking into account the aether that exists in the eve universe - why you come to a stop if you turn your engines off and why you do not accelerate to C) and adding a kinetic threshold which if broken causes damage to both ships and flags the aggressor - the faster moving ship impacting the slower, as suspect. I don't really think something like this would make it into EVE Online, but it would be interesting way to resolve high sec bumping with impunity overall. Bumping someone causing suspect will never happen. I would make people in Jita bump me on accident so I could kill them and I doubt I'm the only one that would. Edit: mistyped
Neither do I think it would happen, but note I said threshold, which means undocking would not meet such criteria anyways. |
Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
352
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 23:29:00 -
[82] - Quote
The bumper has:
1. No investment required (noob ship) 2. No risk accrued (noob ship)
Actually, I was going to make a longer list, but I think I can stop there. That pretty much defines 'exploit' in those two points.
The fix is to change the impact formula so that mass effects the collision more accurately. Also, remove Prop Mod added mass from the equation. - Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap - -áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there? |
Miss Everest
Elysium Accord
4
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Posted - 2014.02.06 23:33:00 -
[83] - Quote
"Bumping" is simply a Exploit sanctioned by CCP. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2429
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 23:48:00 -
[84] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:Assuming that the consensus is that bumping in general is a bad mechanic and makes little logical sense, one solution to the problem would be to force ships to divert their path when heading directly into another ship. So for instance if a frigate was heading full speed towards a freighter, the autopilot would assume there is something wrong with the pilot and automatically change course temporarily to avoid the freighter. The would take some pretty clever coding by CCP and is the best solution to resolve the issue of bumping.
The other alternative would be to allow ships to collide causing damage to one another which would be easily exploitable.
The last solution would be to suppose that each ship is surrounded by a magnetic field (shield) and when these two fields collide they repel each other based upon the mass of each ship. For instance if a frigate charges into a freighter, then the frigate should bounce off and leave the freighter virtually untouched. Due to a Freighters mass, no other ship beside a Capital or another freighter (which cannot travel at high enough speeds to bump) would be able to significantly disrupt a freighters direction of travel.
Any of these solutions would be better than the current mechanics in my opinion.
And when a stabber, packing much, much more kinetic energy than a freighter, slams into it, what should happen? |
Morwennon
Aliastra Gallente Federation
82
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 00:43:00 -
[85] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:And when a stabber, packing much, much more kinetic energy than a freighter, slams into it, what should happen? A glass thrown at a brick wall has much more kinetic energy than the wall.
What happens to the glass when it hits the wall? What happens to the wall? Ceterum censeo, the RLML and HML nerfs must be undone. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1045
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 01:01:00 -
[86] - Quote
Morwennon wrote:Danika Princip wrote:And when a stabber, packing much, much more kinetic energy than a freighter, slams into it, what should happen? A glass thrown at a brick wall has much more kinetic energy than the wall. What happens to the glass when it hits the wall? What happens to the wall?
an unanchored wall in space? why it moves..... EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
352
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 02:07:00 -
[87] - Quote
Morwennon wrote:Danika Princip wrote:And when a stabber, packing much, much more kinetic energy than a freighter, slams into it, what should happen? A glass thrown at a brick wall has much more kinetic energy than the wall. What happens to the glass when it hits the wall? What happens to the wall?
The combined energy of the two bodies (Wall + Glass * Velocity of Glass) is redirected in equal portions into each body. The Glass, having much lower mass, is destroyed by it's portion of the energy. The Wall, being very large and having much higher mass, harmlessly absorbs it's portion energy.
IOW, the Stabber should crumple like an accordion and the freighter should take a small amount of collision damage- probably not even breaking shields. Since we generally don't want collisions to do damage (Can O WormsGäó), in game we should just see the Stabber bounce off. - Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap - -áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there? |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
168
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Posted - 2014.02.07 04:01:00 -
[88] - Quote
Morwennon wrote:Danika Princip wrote:And when a stabber, packing much, much more kinetic energy than a freighter, slams into it, what should happen? A glass thrown at a brick wall has much more kinetic energy than the wall. What happens to the glass when it hits the wall? What happens to the wall?
A glass made of a much more fragile construction to begin with. Argument invalid.
Now... Crow Bar vs a Car door.....
The Law is a point of View |
Whittorical Quandary
The Asteroid is Depleted
0
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Posted - 2014.02.07 05:33:00 -
[89] - Quote
This makes me want to see two alliances of corp ships in a high sec bump war.
It'd be like the eve equivalent of "katamari"; A giant ever growing ball of ships bumping together and sticking onto large cargo ships.
But yeah, it really doesn't fit my view of a science fiction spaceship battle. Imagine if this happened on an episode of "Battlestar Galactica" or "Star Trek"... |
Hunter Arngrahm
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2014.02.07 06:13:00 -
[90] - Quote
To be perfectly fair, CCP has made statements on harassing Miners through repeated bumping, the same argument could be made for freighters, which are even more defenseless against bumps. There is a precedent in place for this argument. |
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