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Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
368
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Posted - 2014.02.09 20:02:00 -
[61] - Quote
Lord, you are dense, Ms. Kim.
-Eran |
James Syagrius
Syndicated Ice
772
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 22:04:00 -
[62] - Quote
Ramius Decimus wrote:Odd that there is no mention of materials going back to the Caldari Navy whence they originated. Again, Ishukone has proven through action their contradiction in philosophy and ideology towards the betterment of the State.
I never felt comfortable seeing how close Ishukone snuggled up to the Federation, but after the many years of this protracted Great War, I feel almost sick to my guts each time I witness their candor and collaboration with our enemy. Diplomacy is understandable but not when it works in the favor of the opposition.
Providence Guard no longer stands by Heth's madness-warped ideologies, however, we still stand apart from Ishukone. Mr. Decimus.
It is strange then that Ishukone's tactics have demonstrated lasting and beneficial results to the States' cause in relation to Caldari Prime.
If sustainable results are your goal you might consider emulating their policies.
As to the salvage.
While I haven't heard of any restrictions placed on the use of salvaged materials I would imagine Ishukone is cognoscente of the ramifications should debris recovered from Federally controlled districts be returned to he State for military purposes.
GÇïWhile no friend of any State organization I can at least recognize a rational and perhaps honorable broker when I see one. GÇï GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
-á
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3242
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Posted - 2014.02.09 22:17:00 -
[63] - Quote
Scherezad wrote:Xindi Kraid wrote:As for the war I fail to see why furthering Heth's agenda makes anyone a bad group, and when your home planet is on FIRE the peace process helps the Caldari people more than throwing more meat at the grinder. Where were the patriots with aid supplies when people were dying on the ground? I can't speak for all Patriots, but I was in orbit of Home in Hospital Ship LDMT Utuusi as part of a general aid mission, delivering material, manpower, and medical expertise. The homeworld is neither Liberal, nor Patriot, nor Practical. It is Caldari.
I am a Patriot. I flew support for the Ishukone relief freighter convoy under the command of Oniseki-haani. I collected and donated relief supplies to the effort on the planet. Immediately after I had secured from combat operations I joined in the immediate evacuation and relief effort, ferrying dropships from State space to the planet's surface, providing immediate first-response care and triage and carrying State Citizens and survivors from the battle back to State space. |
James Syagrius
Syndicated Ice
772
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Posted - 2014.02.09 22:17:00 -
[64] - Quote
Scherezad wrote:Xindi Kraid wrote:As for the war I fail to see why furthering Heth's agenda makes anyone a bad group, and when your home planet is on FIRE the peace process helps the Caldari people more than throwing more meat at the grinder. Where were the patriots with aid supplies when people were dying on the ground? I can't speak for all Patriots, but I was in orbit of Home in Hospital Ship LDMT Utuusi as part of a general aid mission, delivering material, manpower, and medical expertise. The homeworld is neither Liberal, nor Patriot, nor Practical. It is Caldari. Not all of it.
I would remind you we remain and that a good bit of Caldari Prime remains under Federal authority.
Now I know you are an honorable person Ma'dame Scherezad and didn't mean any harm by your statement.
And I myself am not trying to be confrontational.
But statements like that seem to dismiss the Federal citizens who have for generations made Caldari Prime their home.
Regardless of how the got there, they are there now and have as much right to call it home as Caldari born light years away.
Declarative statements like yours make many wonder and worry. GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
-á
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Saya Ishikari
Akagi Initiative
197
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Posted - 2014.02.10 00:22:00 -
[65] - Quote
As usual, no answers from anyone making the most noise. Just more of the same. Let me know if this conversation manages to break from it's usual pattern. |
Scherezad
Perkone Caldari State
1645
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Posted - 2014.02.10 01:46:00 -
[66] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:Scherezad wrote:The homeworld is neither Liberal, nor Patriot, nor Practical. It is Caldari. Not all of it. I would remind you we remain and that a good bit of Caldari Prime remains under Federal authority. Now I know you are an honorable person Ma'dame Scherezad and didn't mean any harm by your statement. And I myself am not trying to be confrontational. But statements like that seem to dismiss the Federal citizens who have for generations made Caldari Prime their home. Regardless of how the got there, they are there now and have as much right to call it home as Caldari born light years away. Declarative statements like yours make many wonder and worry. I think something may have been lost in the translation, sir. Those areas under Federal jurisdiction are as Caldari as those beneath a corporate flag. Being Caldari is not a State, nor a Federation, nor a nation. It is a state of being. The homeworld kills those who it doesn't accept.
I doubt that my opinion will be popular among my companions here, but I think it better to let the storm decide. |
Xindi Kraid
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
716
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Posted - 2014.02.10 01:59:00 -
[67] - Quote
Perhaps, perhaps not. If they want to consider themselves as not being Caldari but rather being Gallente, who am I to argue?
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Simon Louvaki
Sengokuvaa Kaltiovon
651
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Posted - 2014.02.10 02:12:00 -
[68] - Quote
A.....refreashing...point of view Scherezad-hanni. The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word.
- The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21 |
James Syagrius
Syndicated Ice
775
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Posted - 2014.02.10 02:44:00 -
[69] - Quote
Scherezad wrote: I doubt that my opinion will be popular among my companions here, but I think it better to let the storm decide.
I cannot deny that I find your GÇ£inclusionGÇ¥ surprising.
For the sake of clarity I want to make sure I understand you.
When you say; GÇ£Being a Caldari is not a State, nor a Federation, nor a nation. It is a state of being.GÇ¥ what do you mean? GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
-á
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Scherezad
Perkone Caldari State
1647
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 02:58:00 -
[70] - Quote
What makes a Caldari a Caldari is that they are shaped by the winds of the homeworld. It has little to do with nationality. A Gallente can be as moved by the homeworld as any Deteis or Civire. |
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Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
369
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Posted - 2014.02.10 03:05:00 -
[71] - Quote
If one never goes to the homeworld, is one less Caldari?
-Eran |
James Syagrius
Syndicated Ice
775
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 03:36:00 -
[72] - Quote
Scherezad wrote:What makes a Caldari a Caldari is that they are shaped by the winds of the homeworld. It has little to do with nationality. A Gallente can be as moved by the homeworld as any Deteis or Civire. I canGÇÖt deny that this is so, and I find your tolerant inclusiveness refreshing.
But I would imagine there are many Gallente who live on Caldari Prime that do not consider themselves GÇ£CaldariGÇ¥ racially or culturally. GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
-á
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Xindi Kraid
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
716
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 03:38:00 -
[73] - Quote
and what of the Achura? They are not shaped by the winds of Caldari Prime but are considered Caldari.
Being Caldari isn't so one dimensional as much as some would like to fit people into neat classifications. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3243
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 03:44:00 -
[74] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:If one never goes to the homeworld, is one less Caldari?
-Eran
Ask me that to my face. I say this not to threaten you, but just so you know my point of view succinctly. |
Scherezad
Perkone Caldari State
1649
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 03:48:00 -
[75] - Quote
This is hard to talk about - I'm not good with words at all :) My apologies. This would be far easier in Napanii.
Kraid - haan: The Achurans can be Caldari as well in my opinion - I should hope so at the very least! Most Achurans are happy to be Achuran instead of being Caldari, however - and that's completely fine.
Mr Mintor, sir: I hope not! Most of my friends here believe that the winds follow us, but there is that concern. Perhaps that can help illuminate why we so desperately want our home back.
Mr Syagrius, sir: They don't have to believe themselves to be Caldari, either racially or culturally. They can still be Federal Gallente. The fact that they can cut themselves a home out of the rock and ice is proof enough. The cold winds don't care what name you call yourself, they only care to see whether you can survive the winter. |
Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
370
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 03:51:00 -
[76] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Eran Mintor wrote:If one never goes to the homeworld, is one less Caldari?
-Eran Ask me that to my face. I say this not to threaten you, but just so you know my point of view succinctly.
Well the question was really directed at Ms. Scherezad since she's the one who made that comment. I guess another opinion would do no harm, though. I'll contact you soon.
-Eran |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
877
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 03:52:00 -
[77] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:Lord, you are dense, Ms. Kim.
-Eran I am neither lord, nor dense, Mr. Minor, I am a simple soldier. |
Xindi Kraid
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
716
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 03:54:00 -
[78] - Quote
My point is that, as important as Caldari Prime is to Caldari, it isn't the only facet of our being. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
877
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 03:58:00 -
[79] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote: I would remind you we remain and that a good bit of Caldari Prime remains under Federal authority.
Don't worry, we are working to remove this little "problem", and, I hope, soon our Homeworld will be cleaned completely from gallentean filth.
James Syagrius wrote: But statements like that seem to dismiss the Federal citizens who have for generations made Caldari Prime their home.
Regardless of how the got there, they are there now and have as much right to call it home as Caldari born light years away.
Declarative statements like yours make many wonder and worry.
They don't have any "right" to be there. They are occupants. They are infestation. They are stain on both our homeworld and our reputation. And they have to be dismissed not by words, but with purification by fire.
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Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
371
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Posted - 2014.02.10 04:13:00 -
[80] - Quote
Scherezad wrote:This is hard to talk about - I'm not good with words at all :) My apologies. This would be far easier in Napanii.
Kraid - haan: The Achurans can be Caldari as well in my opinion - I should hope so at the very least! Most Achurans are happy to be Achuran instead of being Caldari, however - and that's completely fine.
Mr Mintor, sir: I hope not! Most of my friends here believe that the winds follow us, but there is that concern. Perhaps that can help illuminate why we so desperately want our home back.
Mr Syagrius, sir: They don't have to believe themselves to be Caldari, either racially or culturally. They can still be Federal Gallente. The fact that they can cut themselves a home out of the rock and ice is proof enough. The cold winds don't care what name you call yourself, they only care to see whether you can survive the winter.
Sounds like a difference of perspectives. I'm not sure how those Gallente would feel knowing you label them Caldari but I guess you'd have to ask them. Oh well.
-Eran |
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Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
372
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 04:20:00 -
[81] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:James Syagrius wrote: I would remind you we remain and that a good bit of Caldari Prime remains under Federal authority.
Don't worry, we are working to remove this little "problem", and, I hope, soon our Homeworld will be cleaned completely from gallentean filth. James Syagrius wrote: But statements like that seem to dismiss the Federal citizens who have for generations made Caldari Prime their home.
Regardless of how the got there, they are there now and have as much right to call it home as Caldari born light years away.
Declarative statements like yours make many wonder and worry.
They don't have any "right" to be there. They are occupants. They are infestation. They are stain on both our homeworld and our reputation. And they have to be dismissed not by words, but with purification by fire.
There will be a day when either you wise up and hate the ugly bigot you see in the mirror, forcing you to change, or you will turn to ash and dust to be gone forever.
Either way, I will celebrate when the Diana Kim we know is no longer with us.
-Eran |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
877
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 07:28:00 -
[82] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote: There will be a day when either you wise up and hate the ugly bigot you see in the mirror, forcing you to change, or you will turn to ash and dust to be gone forever.
Either way, I will celebrate when the Diana Kim we know is no longer with us.
-Eran
I have only one thing left to say to you: Do it yourself, or shut up, gallentean lover. |
Arkady Vachon
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
843
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 07:52:00 -
[83] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:James Syagrius wrote: I would remind you we remain and that a good bit of Caldari Prime remains under Federal authority.
Don't worry, we are working to remove this little "problem", and, I hope, soon our Homeworld will be cleaned completely from gallentean filth. James Syagrius wrote: But statements like that seem to dismiss the Federal citizens who have for generations made Caldari Prime their home.
Regardless of how the got there, they are there now and have as much right to call it home as Caldari born light years away.
Declarative statements like yours make many wonder and worry.
They don't have any "right" to be there. They are occupants. They are infestation. They are stain on both our homeworld and our reputation. And they have to be dismissed not by words, but with purification by fire.
Attempts at genocide only lead to retaliation, which lead to more retaliations, and so on until everything ends in fire.
But maybe you are just the kind of psychopath who wants to see the universe burn.
*shrug* Nothing Personal - Just Business...
Chaos Creates Content |
Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
372
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 08:02:00 -
[84] - Quote
I actually don't care for many Gallente. But nevertheless, while I would love to make it happen, unfortunately it is your brain that is not allowing change to come. It has absolutely nothing to do with me or anyone else. As for the ash and dust part, that is just a phase of life.
-Eran |
Jace Sarice
Harrier Cascade
34
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 14:39:00 -
[85] - Quote
Scherezad wrote:This is hard to talk about - I'm not good with words at all :) My apologies. This would be far easier in Napanii.
Kraid - haan: The Achurans can be Caldari as well in my opinion - I should hope so at the very least! Most Achurans are happy to be Achuran instead of being Caldari, however - and that's completely fine.
Mr Mintor, sir: I hope not! Most of my friends here believe that the winds follow us, but there is that concern. Perhaps that can help illuminate why we so desperately want our home back.
Mr Syagrius, sir: They don't have to believe themselves to be Caldari, either racially or culturally. They can still be Federal Gallente. The fact that they can cut themselves a home out of the rock and ice is proof enough. The cold winds don't care what name you call yourself, they only care to see whether you can survive the winter.
Your interpretations of our culture and tradition is . . . different. You seem to be implying an interchangeability between cold winds, winter, and Cold Wind - all without reference to ancestors.
I would be interested in having a more in-depth discussion with you about this in a less public place to better understand how you came to understand our culture and traditions this way. "It ought to be remembered that any undertaking is worth pursuing that benefits the State, respects our traditions, or cherishes our culture. A citizen ought to possess no other values, nor entertain any other criteria for judging existence." -á - -áJace Sarice |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3132
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 15:18:00 -
[86] - Quote
I do not believe in Cold Wind as a literal sentient being, but rather as an allegorical construct - an intuition pump given a name and personality. I do not believe that my ancestors live on in anything more than a metaphorical way. But I like to think I'm as Caldari as they make 'em.
Being Caldari is a surprisingly nebulous concept when you dig down into it. For the Minmatar it's relatively easy - you're Matari if you belong to one of the Tribes. "Minmatar" is in that sense purely a genetic term, and culturally... well, I've met all sorts who are equally Minmatar, from Mikramurkans who favour the quiet spirituality of their ancestral life, to transhumanists with some frankly very strange notions about body heritage, and all points in between.
"Amarr" is both a genetic and a religious term. You're an Amarrian if you belong to a specific bloodline, and a practitioner of Amarr if you agree with the core tenets of at least one orthodox sect of the Amarr faith, as vetted by the Theology Council.
"Gallente" is a genetic and ideological term. You're a Gallentean if your ancestry hails from the more verdant of the two temperate worlds in Luminaire, and a Gallente if you subscribe in a broad sense to the ideals of Federation and Democracy.
but Caldari? I don't think I can adequately describe what the word "Caldari" refers to, I just know that I've always been one. I'm Caldari because I'm a Civire, Caldari because I practice a variant of Wayism, Caldari because I was born and raised in a megacorporate environment, Caldari because I believe in meritocracy and capitalist collectivism, Caldari because I'm a ruthless opportunity, Caldari because I'm a Liberal, Caldari because I have a Practical streak, Caldari because I follow the leadership of the CEP, Caldari because I get angry over Home, Caldari because I can metabolize Kresh, Caldari because I feel a sense of Heiian.... I'm Caldari as much because I call myself Caldari as for any other reason, and I'm Caldari because other Caldari and jaijiin alike agree that I am.
I'm Caldari because I know that I'm Caldari, and to hell with anyone who disagrees. And I think that's true for most everyone who identifies as Caldari, Civire, Achuran, Deteis, Gallentean, Sebiestor, Ni-Kunni, whatever - if you know in your bones that you're Caldari, then you are. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Jace Sarice
Harrier Cascade
34
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Posted - 2014.02.10 15:48:00 -
[87] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:I do not believe in Cold Wind as a literal sentient being, but rather as an allegorical construct - an intuition pump given a name and personality. I do not believe that my ancestors live on in anything more than a metaphorical way. But I like to think I'm as Caldari as they make 'em.
Being Caldari is a surprisingly nebulous concept when you dig down into it. For the Minmatar it's relatively easy - you're Matari if you belong to one of the Tribes. "Minmatar" is in that sense purely a genetic term, and culturally... well, I've met all sorts who are equally Minmatar, from Mikramurkans who favour the quiet spirituality of their ancestral life, to transhumanists with some frankly very strange notions about body heritage, and all points in between.
"Amarr" is both a genetic and a religious term. You're an Amarrian if you belong to a specific bloodline, and a practitioner of Amarr if you agree with the core tenets of at least one orthodox sect of the Amarr faith, as vetted by the Theology Council.
"Gallente" is a genetic and ideological term. You're a Gallentean if your ancestry hails from the more verdant of the two temperate worlds in Luminaire, and a Gallente if you subscribe in a broad sense to the ideals of Federation and Democracy.
but Caldari? I don't think I can adequately describe what the word "Caldari" refers to, I just know that I've always been one. I'm Caldari because I'm a Civire, Caldari because I practice a variant of Wayism, Caldari because I was born and raised in a megacorporate environment, Caldari because I believe in meritocracy and capitalist collectivism, Caldari because I'm a ruthless opportunity, Caldari because I'm a Liberal, Caldari because I have a Practical streak, Caldari because I follow the leadership of the CEP, Caldari because I get angry over Home, Caldari because I can metabolize Kresh, Caldari because I feel a sense of Heiian.... I'm Caldari as much because I call myself Caldari as for any other reason, and I'm Caldari because other Caldari and jaijiin alike agree that I am.
I'm Caldari because I know that I'm Caldari, and to hell with anyone who disagrees. And I think that's true for most everyone who identifies as Caldari, Civire, Achuran, Deteis, Gallentean, Sebiestor, Ni-Kunni, whatever - if you know in your bones that you're Caldari, then you are.
Despite our differing views of the Way and tradition, you largely had me with you until the last paragraph. One's own feeling of being Caldari is not the deciding factor - no matter how trenchant and vital that sense of who you are is, it is not what makes someone Caldari. Gallentean youth that attempt to turn the Way into a fad may very well convince themselves of profound feeling and internal attachment, but this does not make them Caldari.
As you said, it is difficult to describe what it means to be Caldari - but that does not mean it cannot be described what or who is not Caldari from time to time. "It ought to be remembered that any undertaking is worth pursuing that benefits the State, respects our traditions, or cherishes our culture. A citizen ought to possess no other values, nor entertain any other criteria for judging existence." -á - -áJace Sarice |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3132
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 15:55:00 -
[88] - Quote
You may well be right. Better minds than I have devoted a lot of ink and electrons to the subject over the centuries, I don't expect to have cracked the puzzle in one hastily-assembled forum post. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Scherezad
Perkone Caldari State
1651
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 16:19:00 -
[89] - Quote
Jace Sarice wrote:Your interpretations of our culture and tradition is . . . different. You seem to be implying an interchangeability between cold winds, winter, and Cold Wind - all without reference to ancestors.
I would be interested in having a more in-depth discussion with you about this in a less public place to better understand how you came to understand our culture and traditions this way. I'm not sure if there is a difference between a cold wind and a Cold Wind, sir. And there are certainly a lot of both during the winter. If there are any differences, I think they're largely academic. They all have something to teach us.
Ancestors are like winds, too. They also have lessons to teach us, and can arrive when we don't expect them to. They don't have to happen at the same time, though, of course.
I'm happy to talk with you about it whenever you'd like :) I will apologize in advance for my poor interpretation of the Way. |
Jace Sarice
Harrier Cascade
34
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Posted - 2014.02.10 17:13:00 -
[90] - Quote
Scherezad wrote:[quote=Jace Sarice] I'm happy to talk with you about it whenever you'd like :) I will apologize in advance for my poor interpretation of the Way.
Sounds good. Someone will contact you soon. "It ought to be remembered that any undertaking is worth pursuing that benefits the State, respects our traditions, or cherishes our culture. A citizen ought to possess no other values, nor entertain any other criteria for judging existence." -á - -áJace Sarice |
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