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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.09.27 07:36:00 -
[31]
Originally by: SencneS OK I've spent the last 2 days working on this assuming Broker fees was compounded not a flat rate.
This changes a lot
Working off the fact you and I have some high Corp standing and you have high faction standing, I do not however. I have a Fee of 0.40912677% with BR4. This means that Faction does play a role but it's very minor. BR5 would bring me to 0.383556347%
Corp Standing 9.43 Faction Standing 3.49
I'm been working of the fact that the difference in Corp standing is so minimal I've been concentrating on Faction standing. We're talking 16% difference for over double the faction standing.
0.3... It's my theory, working on the bases that CCP probably intended to ALWAYS have a broker fee as a ISK sink. And how close you are to 0.225% it's just the number that seems to fit.
I though for a second 1/3 of 1% but that doesn't fit at all 0.3 seems to generate some numbers that are more in line with what everyone has said. It could be wrong but it has to be close.
And we've also seen CCP set a value, we see it in Refining and ME/PE formulas. So it's reasonable to think CCP set a "rock bottom" value in it's formula. It also helps for balancing to have a solid value which can be easily adjusted instead of having to re-vamp the entire formula.
This is the formula for Faction Standing (assuming corp standing = 0) y = 0.00004136x2 - 0.00099120x + 0.01002109 RĶ = 0.99993286
This is the formula for Faction Standing (Assuming corp standing ~~9.8-9.9) y = 0.00006178x2 - 0.00118930x + 0.00865406 RĶ = 0.99870847
This is the formula for Corp Standing (assuming faction standing = 0.83 y = 0.00000677x2 - 0.00038001x + 0.00922138 RĶ = 0.99999929
This is the formula for Corp Standing (assuming faction standing = 6.63 y = 0.00000379x2 - 0.00021641x + 0.00525301 RĶ = 0.99999485
Note how the formulas change based on the higher the opposite standing is? I've been out of statistics a bit too long to remember how to combine these formulas into a working formula. But in any case, you have some basic formulas to play around with... but they won't be perfectly accurate, that's for sure.
By the way, you'll notice they are not linear... if you try to do it linearly you'll be stuck forever. The graphs curve slowly.
Clearly neither of the faction formulas are spot on as a 0/0 standing would be .01 but the formula shows it to be 0.01002109. I know the formula isn't perfect, but that's fairly close considering. So at 10.0 faction standing you'd have 0.00424509, or in other terms, you'd be paying .424509% if you had 10 faction standing and 0 corp standing.
When you look at the corp standing, the first formula show that with .83 faction standing and 0 corp standing you'd get 0.00922138. If you plug .83 into the faction formula you get 0.009226887. Wow, that's pretty close :) It looks like I can very closely predict the values if you happen to have the same corp/faction standing as I do in my formulas, lol. Otherwise it gets further off. But if you have .83 faction and 10 corp you get 0.00609828.
Corp Standing has less impact than Faction Standing.
Plus you have to remember that each thing is applied in a different order. I believe the first thing applied is your faction standing, then your corp standing and then... finally... your broker relations. So going from BR4 to BR5 is a big help if you have 0 standing. It barely does anything at all if you have high standing.
I really hope you're following all this Sencnes because I desperately want someone to help me tie together the last few pieces of this puzzle so we can present the EVE community with a formula for this.
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SencneS
Amarr Balsarferskratchin Inc Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.09.27 12:53:00 -
[32]
Oh yeah I am following you fine, in fact we coming to some similar conclusions, like Faction standing being processed first, then corp standing.
I'll play around with what I have because working on Compounded Broker fees really threw everything out of whack. I'll post what I have when I get into work, if I can.
Amarr for Life |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.09.27 23:27:00 -
[33]
Originally by: SencneS Oh yeah I am following you fine, in fact we coming to some similar conclusions, like Faction standing being processed first, then corp standing.
I'll play around with what I have because working on Compounded Broker fees really threw everything out of whack. I'll post what I have when I get into work, if I can.
You don't know how glad I am to finally have someone else looking into this. I was/am doing the same thing for missions... but I'm much further behind there. There is so much more data to look into and more variables with missions. I was trying to determine exactly how much your agent standing, EQ, sec status, mission level, quality, skills, etc effected the ISK/LP rewards from missions.
If you'd like my data from either the broker fees or the missions just let me know.
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SencneS
Amarr Balsarferskratchin Inc Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.09.28 01:30:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Shadarle I was trying to determine exactly how much your agent standing, EQ, sec status, mission level, quality, skills, etc effected the ISK/LP rewards from missions.
HOLY HELL!
BUT I think it it probably uses very similar formula.
Fortunately I may be about help a little in this :) because I happen to have two 10.0 standing agents, one Level 1 and one level 2:) I am also 9.93 with a level 3 agent. So if you want me to run a couple of missions for the 10.0's I can.
But I also have a lot of social skills.
Connections lvl 3 Criminal Connections lvl 3 Diplomacy lvl 4 Fast talk lvl 2 High Tech Connections lvl 3 Military Connections lvl 3 Negotiation lvl 4 Political Connections lvl 4 Social lvl 4
Amarr for Life |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.09.28 02:21:00 -
[35]
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: Shadarle I was trying to determine exactly how much your agent standing, EQ, sec status, mission level, quality, skills, etc effected the ISK/LP rewards from missions.
HOLY HELL!
BUT I think it it probably uses very similar formula.
Fortunately I may be about help a little in this :) because I happen to have two 10.0 standing agents, one Level 1 and one level 2:) I am also 9.93 with a level 3 agent. So if you want me to run a couple of missions for the 10.0's I can.
But I also have a lot of social skills.
Connections lvl 3 Criminal Connections lvl 3 Diplomacy lvl 4 Fast talk lvl 2 High Tech Connections lvl 3 Military Connections lvl 3 Negotiation lvl 4 Political Connections lvl 4 Social lvl 4
I collect a lot of information when I do it, including % standing increase for the mission, and basically all the information that is given about the agent & mission, including the length of time you have to complete the mission (as this directly determines the LP / reward)
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.21 20:58:00 -
[36]
Bump to see if anyone else would like to pitch in to work with the numbers a bit...
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Durente Galaica
Amarr Fortunate Few
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Posted - 2007.12.22 20:21:00 -
[37]
Okay I'll give you some numbers to play with....
The only skill I have influencing my broker fee atm is broker relations 3. For all things being equal except Corp standings my numbers today were:
FACTION = 5.36
CORP 1 = 9.85 CORP 2 = 8.76
CORP 1 Broker fee = .335385092933 (of 1%) CORP 2 Broker Fee = .350881518316 (of 1%)
Also remember that the standings that are shown in the show info are truncated or rounded to the nearest tenth.
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Durente Galaica
Amarr Fortunate Few
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Posted - 2007.12.22 20:39:00 -
[38]
Oh and on the note of Taxes.
I have the accounting skill up to 3 and a perfect round .7000000 (of 1%) for my sales tax.
I'd like to believe that eventually I could have a perfect 0 in brokers fees and with accounting to 5 i'd be down to .5 (of 1%). If this was ever possible I could make profits on anything greater than 1% margin!
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.22 20:44:00 -
[39]
Unfortunately I don't think 0% broker fee is possible, I think .2 is the best you can get. But I would love someone with a faction standing (without connections) of 9+ to post their stats.
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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2007.12.22 21:28:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Treelox on 22/12/2007 21:29:45 Ok just for numbers for you to enjoy Shadarle;
My broker fee with a specific corp is; 0.32%
The following is a listing of what modifiers I have;
Effective Corp Standing = 9.59 (9.61 due to Connections LvL3 modifier) Effective Faction Standing = 5.22 (5.80 due to Connections LvL3 modifier) Connection Skill = Level 3 Broker Relations = Level 4
Is there any other data that you would want that might be relevant?
---- edit
BTW I am slowly working my way up towards having that Faction Standing of +9.0, but as I dont run missions on a regular basis it might be awhile before I get there. Missions are sort of something that I do when once in awhile. --
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.22 21:36:00 -
[41]
I have a faction standing of 8ish, but I really haven't worked on these numbers in a while.
I figured I'd bump this to see if anyone with really high standing would post numbers or if anyone good at math would help out in figuring out a combined formula that could be used to plug in your standings + fees to determine your broker fee.
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Vinev
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Posted - 2007.12.31 11:20:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Vinev on 31/12/2007 11:20:47 (sor for my english, it's a foreign language for me)
I got a very nice programm (origin pro 8) to solve this problem but i need more data (up to 1000++) to do this. at the end i can post u a nice graph :-)
this the data i have:
fac corp s br
7.799.9350.00233 6.649.6150.00264 5.979.4440.00303 6.139.4640.00303 5.369.8530.00335 5.368.7630.00351 5.979.4400.00378 5.979.4400.00378 5.973.9940.00380 6.134.2340.00380 6.132.0140.00418 5.971.6740.00418 5.973.9900.00474 5.971.6700.00523 1.396.2440.00539 1.956.0420.00579 2.916.5120.00579 0.676.3420.00643 1.956.0400.00644 1.956.0400.00644 0.676.4120.00646 0.676.3920.00646 0.676.2520.00650 1.396.2400.00674 0.676.2510.00686 1.796.7010.00686 0.676.3400.00715 0.676.4100.00717 0.676.3900.00718 0.676.2500.00722 1.796.7000.00722 0.670.7020.00819 1.791.8210.00864 0.670.7010.00864 0.670.7000.00910
any 1 got more (u can also mail it [email protected]) it mail is a spam folder so it senseless to add it in a list
fly safe vinev
happy new year 2008
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.12.31 16:21:00 -
[43]
I sent you my list of 250+ entries for you to work on.
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Vested Interest
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Posted - 2008.01.28 00:35:00 -
[44]
Bumping this to ask if it's confirmed that Connections does not affect your fees in any way?
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Jameroz
Art of War
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Posted - 2008.02.01 00:57:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Vested Interest Bumping this to ask if it's confirmed that Connections does not affect your fees in any way?
It increases your standings and with increased standings your Broker Tax is lower. So it does effect.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.02.01 02:47:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Jameroz
Originally by: Vested Interest Bumping this to ask if it's confirmed that Connections does not affect your fees in any way?
It increases your standings and with increased standings your Broker Tax is lower. So it does effect.
No, again, this is not correct. I've tried to state this over and over and people never test it (as I did in the past). Unless this has changed recently, broker fees are based on your unmodified standings. This means, before social skills are taken into account. Even the broker relations skill is ignored until your base standings are checked. Once your modified fee is determined based on your base standings the broker relations skill is then calculated.
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Takimi Star
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Posted - 2008.02.01 03:31:00 -
[47]
Reading this thread makes me sad....I wasted skill training time on connections =o\
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Daphne Eveningstar
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Posted - 2008.02.01 03:49:00 -
[48]
I can confirm I've trained it to level 3 and seen no visible difference in fees.
Too bad, think there's any chance CCP would change that?
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