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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
3574
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello, some news:
Coming soon, in a Rubicon point release, we are planning to add a hard cap to the number of drones that can be assisted to a single player. Currently, we are planning to set that cap at 50.
As most of you surely know by now, drone assist has been a very hot topic over the last 6 or so months. Archons began showing the power of sentry doctrines before that, and the addition of tracking and optimal bonuses for drones on the Ishtar and Dominix catapulted this philosophy into the forefront of fleet warfare. The resulting meta is causing two major problems that we hope to address through this change.
We feel that drone assist, at a large scale, leads to passive gameplay that most players do not enjoy. Assist places too much control in the hands of a single person and leaves the majority of the fleet with little to do. note: we spent a lot of time considering the value in delegation of ship systems and navigation overall (why not have assisted turrets? why have fleet warp? etc) and while this discussion will likely continue, we feel it depends heavily on the amount of delegation taking place. Amount might refer to the time something is delegated or the importance of the system being delegated (is it a primary system or a secondary one). Moral of the story: while some cases of drone assist can be fun, large fleets based on assist are not. Drones, for the time being, are the most taxing weapon system for our hardware, which means overall play experience has suffered some because of the popularity of sentry doctrines. We are making this change primarily to address the first point, but also hope to have a positive effect on performance by allowing more room for other weapon systems in the fleet meta.
Why a flat cap?
We believe a flat cap will:
Limit large scale assist substantially Leave room for smaller scale assisting (there are several use-cases for assist that we wanted to preserve, such as incursion drone managers) Be very easy to communicate to players Affect carriers more heavily than sub-caps (because they can field 10 drones per ship rather than 5) This solution meets each of these points in a more effective way than any others we considered.
Why 50?
To arrive at 50 we began by starting at complete removal of assist, and worked our way back up until we had caught all the use-cases for assist that we didn't want to impact negatively. That included frigates on gates trying to catch cloakers, small fleets trying to use assist to avoid e-war, logistics pilots who are too busy to manage their drones, and most importantly, incursioners. We believe 50 will leave all these uses unharmed while also heavily discouraging large fleet use. If it turns out that fleets are still able to rely on assist easily at 50 (which we feel is unlikely) we can and will make further adjustments.
Before I go, I want to say that we've been looking at this for some time now. We've watched the discussion in the community evolve and also kept a close eye on TQ behavior. We began discussing this change with the CSM via internal forums just prior to the summit, and then spent significant time discussing it in person with them during the summit. Their feedback was valuable, as always, and gives us confidence that this is a good direction.
As always, leave your feedback and we will do our best to answer any questions. |
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Chitsa Jason
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
1124
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ship it! CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
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Sheeana Harb
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
12
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yay! |
HVAC Repairman
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
689
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
you're killing eve by adding decent changes
keep killing eve rise Follow me on twitter |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2161
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Why 50? That still seems too much. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Sort Dragon
Resilience. DARKNESS.
87
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
We went through alot with ccp for this. And for now this is a good change. |
shebu
Russian SOBR SOLAR FLEET
2
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
BB N3 |
Padanemi
Omega Encounter The Volition Cult
2
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Seems legit.
Will you also limit the number of people that receive a target broadcast in fleet to 10? |
Crysantos Callahan
Control-Space DARKNESS.
14
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
So we just use 5x Wing leaders with drone assists on them for a full fleet?
Just saying... |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
13687
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
We went through all the use cases we could think of, and 50 dones was enough for every reasonable use. If we missed any (EVE is big!), then let us know. But it's pretty hard to think of a non abusive case that 50 dones won't be enough for.
1 Kings 12:11
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Sort Dragon
Resilience. DARKNESS.
87
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Crysantos Callahan wrote:So we just use 5x Wing leaders with drone assists on them for a full fleet?
Just saying...
Sigh learn to read.
And ffs you are in my alliance too. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
9167
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Crysantos Callahan wrote:So we just use 5x Wing leaders with drone assists on them for a full fleet?
Just saying...
As long as the members of those wings only have one drone each, then sure! Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
13687
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Crysantos Callahan wrote:So we just use 5x Wing leaders with drone assists on them for a full fleet?
Just saying...
Um, for a full fleet you'll need 50 squad leaders with drone assists. The limit is 50 drones, not the drones from 50 players.
1 Kings 12:11
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
200
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ok, so only 5 carriers and 10 Dominix can assign drones to one person after this change. That sounds reasonable and leaves sufficient room for smaller fleets to still benefit form the delegation mechanics. |
Powers Sa
885
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
So that means Squad Commanders can take up to 10 assists with 5 drones per assisting player. Squad commanders are finally relevant. lol |
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
112
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sort Dragon wrote:Crysantos Callahan wrote:So we just use 5x Wing leaders with drone assists on them for a full fleet?
Just saying... Sigh learn to read. And ffs you are in my alliance too. He made two mistakes. ;) Shadoo > whoever was the first nyx on grid Shadoo > THANK GOD YOU ARE A SMART MAN and fitted the best tank in PL Shadoo > (ie. cyno) |
C0NRAD
Gerodian corp. SOLAR FLEET
0
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
We feel that drone assist, at a large scale, leads to passive gameplay that most players do not enjoy
absolutly agree.
BUT u just incresing target callers count. 50 dominix - 250 drones - 5 target callers. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
13687
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sort Dragon wrote:Crysantos Callahan wrote:So we just use 5x Wing leaders with drone assists on them for a full fleet?
Just saying... Sigh learn to read. And ffs you are in my alliance too.
Don't feel bad, there are people in INIT. who unironically think that removing AoE doomsday was wrong. It just goes to show.
1 Kings 12:11
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Niden
Moira. Villore Accords
22
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Rise: Was the idea of disallowing drone assist for sentries ever discussed? Moira. corp | Villore Accords alliance | Gallente militia @Niden_GMVA |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
13687
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
C0NRAD wrote:We feel that drone assist, at a large scale, leads to passive gameplay that most players do not enjoy
absolutly agree.
BUT u just incresing target callers count. 50 dominix - 250 drones - 5 target callers.
Well that's 5x as much gameplay as there was before!
1 Kings 12:11
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6355
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Crysantos Callahan wrote:So we just use 5x Wing leaders with drone assists on them for a full fleet?
Just saying... if you've only got one drone per person, sure Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1097
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
Looks like a good start to me.
Obligatory "shots fired", of course. Morwen Lagann Director, Tyrathlion Interstellar |
Powers Sa
885
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
If you increase it to 100 per player, then carrier drone assist stuff is still relevant, just sayin (unless you think that is broken too). lol |
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
3577
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Why 50? That still seems too much.
This is certainly the most common concern we ran into. As I said above, we think it's low enough. We didn't want to go lower because of the potential impact on other uses for assist, but if this doesn't work we will consider going lower at that point.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
13689
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
Powers Sa wrote:If you increase it to 100 per player, then carrier drone assist stuff is still relevant, just sayin (unless you think that is broken too).
That is precisely why it was reduced to 50.
1 Kings 12:11
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Crysantos Callahan
Control-Space DARKNESS.
14
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Crysantos Callahan wrote:So we just use 5x Wing leaders with drone assists on them for a full fleet?
Just saying... As long as the members of those wings only have one drone each, then sure!
Sounds like a plan ;)
Nvm then, good nerf ! |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
636
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
it still makes no sense .. how a ship can control more drones than its bandwidth allows which surely makes drone assist a ridiculous mechanic does it not??? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Jopa Pidorovna
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hello, some news:
I love you!!!! =)
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Oh Takashawa
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
14
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:31:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: Affect carriers more heavily than sub-caps (because they can field 10 drones per ship rather than 5) Can we take this as a sign, then, that CCP holds the opinion that capitals should offer even fewer advantages to offset the increased cost, effort, risk, and skills required to effectively field them, as compared to simply fielding big piles of subcaps?
Also, a broader question - do you intend to leave any force multipliers in EVE, Rise, or simply reduce it to whoever has more dudes in T1 subcaps, or alternatively, in bombers? It seems to be trending a lot that way lately, and I'm just curious if that's intentional or simply persistent oversight. |
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
3577
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Posted - 2014.02.06 14:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:it still makes no sense .. how a ship can control more drones than its bandwidth allows which surely makes drone assist a ridiculous mechanic does it not???
I think from a 'realism' standpoint it isn't out of the question to expect your drones to use your ships bandwidth to echo the behavior of another ship's drones.
That said, a big part of our approach to this issue was to isolate the two problems at the top. There may be more discussions related to delegation as a whole, 'realims', usability for drones in general, etc, but for now we wanted to find the best solution to this very specific problem.
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