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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
Kyalla Mayaki
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:06:00 -
[121] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hello, some news:
[b]Coming soon, in a Rubicon point release, we are planning to add a hard cap to the number of drones that can be assisted to a single player. Currently, we are planning to set that cap at 50.
Make this easy to screw up to make the doctrine too dangerous to use in large battles. Let players assist more drones than the cap, don't give them any error message, but when they do, none of them will fire any more until someone figures out the problem and gets
This will likely avoid having to have reductions in the cap later - since one misbehaving pilot will shut down 50+ drones. |
Vahl Ahashion
Risk Breakers Fidelas Constans
15
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:06:00 -
[122] - Quote
Rathunterka wrote:
Well, kill2... no. The socalled discussion was a number of unhappy whiny players, that were doctrinated to belive theyr own lies after a while, crying out loud because the game didnt allow them to win, despite having more ppl in fleets. The drone assist carrier was founded and used to counter 250 celestis with 4damps locking beyond 200km in huge fleet fights. Players addapted... using 100x expensier ships (20m celestis 2b carrier)
Im cool with you and fozzie nerfing everything the second masses start to cry. Its notning new after all... but your reasoning for doing so is just absurd.
News flash, we did win. |
LakeEnd
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
66
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:08:00 -
[123] - Quote
Instead of hard coding a arbitrary cap in the game, could you not promote a player decision and fitting choice on this issue?
For example create a midslot module called Drone Manager that allows player to control 10 more drones, baseline without mods being 10 for example?
|
Vahl Ahashion
Risk Breakers Fidelas Constans
15
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Posted - 2014.02.06 15:09:00 -
[124] - Quote
greiton starfire wrote:A quick look shows that you recognized a problem in the game
looked at various solutions to said problem
spoke to players and the csm about said solutions
recognized and addressed any issues that may come up as a result of the change
and gave us something we want.
this was a perfect execution of a game change, and while i wish it had come sooner i am glad you took the time to think out all the effects on diverse group's game play from a fundamental level. now you guys should put together a seminar for the other devs on how to make game changes. (maybe things like ess would have been proposed at the state it's currently in and not the hot mess it was).
Exactly this, well thought out, well balanced and exactly what the game needed. |
Honest Blob
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2014.02.06 15:09:00 -
[125] - Quote
Vahl Ahashion wrote:Rathunterka wrote:
Well, kill2... no. The socalled discussion was a number of unhappy whiny players, that were doctrinated to belive theyr own lies after a while, crying out loud because the game didnt allow them to win, despite having more ppl in fleets. The drone assist carrier was founded and used to counter 250 celestis with 4damps locking beyond 200km in huge fleet fights. Players addapted... using 100x expensier ships (20m celestis 2b carrier)
Im cool with you and fozzie nerfing everything the second masses start to cry. Its notning new after all... but your reasoning for doing so is just absurd.
News flash, we did win.
It only took you 54k + people from the cfc and the entire russian coalition to beat somthing that was 2/3 the numbers of the cfc alone. Grats. |
HerrBert
V0LTA Triumvirate.
351
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:09:00 -
[126] - Quote
As someone being in such a fleet ... AMERICA **** YEEEEAAAHHH!!!! My mind does not reflect my corp ... it just shows you what they care about...
The Pontiff of Wormholes http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism |
Aya Nova
Bearded BattleBears Nulli Tertius
2
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:09:00 -
[127] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Why 50?
To arrive at 50 we began by starting at complete removal of assist, and worked our way back up until we had caught all the use-cases for assist that we didn't want to impact negatively. That included frigates on gates trying to catch cloakers, small fleets trying to use assist to avoid e-war, logistics pilots who are too busy to manage their drones, and most importantly, incursioners. How about limiting by bandwith? Allow assisting 1250 Mbit/sec. That way sentry/heavy drones are limited to 50 drones, but light and medium can assist 250 and 125 respectively. This will let incursion fleets of all sizes still have a drone bunny since incursion pilots always have guns/reps/webs/painters to operate and do not generate tidi.
This could work in conjunction with replacing carrier drone bonus with a "+20% per level drone damage, +20% per level drone bandwith use" and DCU function with "+20% drone damage, +20% drone bandwith use per module". |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
723
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:10:00 -
[128] - Quote
Good change.
I'm an Ishtar skirmish pilot, and well, I like it, I'm alright with actually shooting with my own greasy fingers.
Thank you very much, Rise/Fozzie/Whoever was behind this.
Now onto the next balancing things : Pirate ships, T3s, Recons maybe, Blackops ? Please, stop teasing we know something is going on, let us EFTwarrior and kill stuff on Singularity with those new ships |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1709
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:10:00 -
[129] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Before I go, I want to say that we've been looking at this for some time now. We've watched the discussion in the community evolve and also kept a close eye on TQ behavior. We began discussing this change with the CSM via internal forums just prior to the summit, and then spent significant time discussing it in person with them during the summit. Their feedback was valuable, as always, and gives us confidence that this is a good direction. .
Hey Buddy.
I like where you are going but 50 drones is a sift kick in the groin to sentires. and lets be honnest its not 5000 orge II that are being assigned.
Solution can be the hard cap you suggested...
and at first when i read 50 i thought that was just 50 players not 50 drones in total.
so thats 10 domi's or 5 archons...
Personally I would make drone assist based on squads. you can only asign your dones to someone in your squad.
this would limit the amount of drones being assigned and also make it more personal skill and such vrs something this heavy handed.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
LnX0R
Cronos Titan Insidious Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:11:00 -
[130] - Quote
You could make it skill dependent... like you are able to control your own drones + 10 without an assist skill, and then +10 drones per skill level ? |
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Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
98
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:11:00 -
[131] - Quote
It could be determined by the size of the ship. Frigates = 10 drones max, (That's 10 drones if the frigate doesn't have any deployed, and that number goes down depending on how many the frigate itself is deploying) Destroyers = 15 Cruisers = 25 BCs = 35 Command BCs = 40 BSes = 45 And up = 50
Not only that, but make a new module that allows one to boost the amount of drones assistable to a ship. Or a command module that allows ships in fleet to have x more drones assistable to the ships in that squad.
Just throwing out ideas. |
Venetian Tar
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
68
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:12:00 -
[132] - Quote
Honest Blob wrote:Vahl Ahashion wrote:Rathunterka wrote:
Well, kill2... no. The socalled discussion was a number of unhappy whiny players, that were doctrinated to belive theyr own lies after a while, crying out loud because the game didnt allow them to win, despite having more ppl in fleets. The drone assist carrier was founded and used to counter 250 celestis with 4damps locking beyond 200km in huge fleet fights. Players addapted... using 100x expensier ships (20m celestis 2b carrier)
Im cool with you and fozzie nerfing everything the second masses start to cry. Its notning new after all... but your reasoning for doing so is just absurd.
News flash, we did win. It only took you 54k + people from the cfc and the entire russian coalition to beat somthing that was 2/3 the numbers of the cfc alone. Grats.
Yeah, man. We totally threw 54 thousand people into one solar system to fight the N3 menace.
It's almost like you're trying to win the dumb award. I don't hate you, I'm just not necessarily excited about your existance. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
634
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:12:00 -
[133] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:this would limit the amount of drones being assigned and also make it more personal skill and such vrs something this heavy handed.
This change isn't heavy handed. Removing the mechanic completely would have been heavy handed.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
HVAC Repairman
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
704
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:13:00 -
[134] - Quote
Honest Blob wrote:Vahl Ahashion wrote:Rathunterka wrote:
Well, kill2... no. The socalled discussion was a number of unhappy whiny players, that were doctrinated to belive theyr own lies after a while, crying out loud because the game didnt allow them to win, despite having more ppl in fleets. The drone assist carrier was founded and used to counter 250 celestis with 4damps locking beyond 200km in huge fleet fights. Players addapted... using 100x expensier ships (20m celestis 2b carrier)
Im cool with you and fozzie nerfing everything the second masses start to cry. Its notning new after all... but your reasoning for doing so is just absurd.
News flash, we did win. It only took you 54k + people from the cfc and the entire russian coalition to beat somthing that was 2/3 the numbers of the cfc alone. Grats.
remember how the entirety of n3/pl dogpiled solar to take the east, and when the russians got mad about the blobbing you told them to deal with it?
well deal with it Follow me on twitter |
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
15
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:15:00 -
[135] - Quote
Aya Nova wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Why 50?
To arrive at 50 we began by starting at complete removal of assist, and worked our way back up until we had caught all the use-cases for assist that we didn't want to impact negatively. That included frigates on gates trying to catch cloakers, small fleets trying to use assist to avoid e-war, logistics pilots who are too busy to manage their drones, and most importantly, incursioners. How about limiting by bandwith? Allow assisting 1250 Mbit/sec. That way sentry/heavy drones are limited to 50 drones, but light and medium can assist 250 and 125 respectively. This will let incursion fleets of all sizes still have a drone bunny since incursion pilots always have guns/reps/webs/painters to operate and do not generate tidi. This could work in conjunction with replacing carrier drone bonus with a "+20% per level drone damage, +20% per level drone bandwith use" and DCU function with "+20% drone damage, +20% drone bandwith use per module".
Except... the change was made to deal with large fleet drone tactics while still preserving assist for smaller applications. By giving bonuses like that to the carrier it would have the complete opposite effect, empower larger groups and hinder smaller gangs. |
Nami Alden
Tierce Inc.
2
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:16:00 -
[136] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: Why 50?
To arrive at 50 we began by starting at complete removal of assist, and worked our way back up until we had caught all the use-cases for assist that we didn't want to impact negatively. That included frigates on gates trying to catch cloakers, small fleets trying to use assist to avoid e-war, logistics pilots who are too busy to manage their drones, and most importantly, incursioners. We believe 50 will leave all these uses unharmed while also heavily discouraging large fleet use.
No, no you haven't. 50 is not even enough for a typical VG fleet (12 pilots) and certainly not for an HQ with 40 pilots.
Just make the assist depend on drone bandwidth. That way you can limit alpha with sentries which can be considered main weapon while not interfering with light drones which are used as secondary damage application.
1250 bandwidth and this change is at least reasonable.
|
Powers Sa
885
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:16:00 -
[137] - Quote
Demotress wrote:While you are at it, why not switch the name of the game to goons get what they want online. After all every time they tell you to change something, you do it. Nerf needed or not. at least they waited until we won the war like with titans and drakes. lol |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2218
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:16:00 -
[138] - Quote
This is a small nerf to Incursion runners, and a heluva whack to the blobfests in null.
100 is a far more reasonable number than 50. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Raging Beaver
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:17:00 -
[139] - Quote
Demotress wrote:While you are at it, why not switch the name of the game to goons get what they want online. After all every time they tell you to change something, you do it. Nerf needed or not.
Well, it could be because we are right about something, have you ever considered that? Oh, wait, you're in nulli... the answer just became obvious... |
Davion Falcon
Those Once Loyal
90
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:17:00 -
[140] - Quote
Sounds like the Eve to **** time ratio for these big fights is going to take a nosedive. Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. Never forgotten, never forgiven. |
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Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
507
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:17:00 -
[141] - Quote
Javajunky wrote:+1 that way we can start flying baltec fleet again, Megathron fleets are sexy as hell.
Please do. Please please please. Free Ripley Weaver! |
Frygok
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:19:00 -
[142] - Quote
I don't care much for drone doctrines, so personally I don't get too fuzzed about this. However, what makes me annoyed is that you seem incredibly keen on nerfing symptoms, rather than actual issues.
Letting one person control the combined drones of an entire fleet is bad. Okay, fair enough. But why oh why, is it absolutely fine for one person in the entire fleet be the prober, the fleet warper and the broadcaster of targets for the entire fleet? How is that in any way different from drone assisting, in terms of what is required of a player? Oh no, you have to shift+clik and push F1, mad skills there!
If you really wanted to make players more involved in these fights, you would put more responsibility on the individual pilot, for instance removing fleet warp and broadcasting targets, and only being able to warp/broadcast to your own wing.
I would think that changing how fleets work altogether should be the goal, to require more pilot involvement, but instead you are trying to cure underlying mechanics by putting on a bandaid on the most superficial wound. It is the exact same pattern as with the changes to supers vs. the underlying problem of sov mechanics and too easy movement of big fleets. |
Kesthely
Fleet of the Damned Ace of Spades.
128
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:20:00 -
[143] - Quote
How does this work in chaining, eg if 10 squad members have their sentries assisted to the squad leader, 5 squad leaders (carriers) have theirs assisted to a wing commander, and 5 wing commanders have it assisted to one fleet commander, you still basicly have all the drones assisted to one player? Fleet commander shoots, drones aggress from the first chain, wich makes the drones from the second chain agress etc?
Is this method explored? |
TAckermassacker
New Republic The Initiative.
40
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:20:00 -
[144] - Quote
Did someone mention that the last AT was won by 39 Sentries? so why dont go to like 20? |
ReeeZaaa
DEFCON. The Initiative.
6
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:20:00 -
[145] - Quote
just want to say thank you for this really needed change and for the reasonable solution to the problem. very good work CSM and CCP! |
Neddy Fox
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
33
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:20:00 -
[146] - Quote
In b4 "nerf Celestis". These become very powerful now. |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
1112
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:20:00 -
[147] - Quote
50 drones? Wow, that's going to make PVP in Nullsec require tactics and strategy again. Weiiird.
I'm honestly more excited at his subtle mention of an upcoming Drone overhaul, though. (The mention of how Drones - as they are now - are taxing on the hardware.) |
BadAssMcKill
Love Squad
638
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:21:00 -
[148] - Quote
#ThanksCCP http://i.imgur.com/6j6cIZE.gif-á |
Kari Trace
22
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:22:00 -
[149] - Quote
C0NRAD wrote:We feel that drone assist, at a large scale, leads to passive gameplay that most players do not enjoy
absolutly agree.
BUT u just incresing target callers count. 50 dominix - 250 drones - 5 target callers.
This. I like making things explode.
Kari Trace |
The Ironfist
Nordgoetter Insidious Empire
6
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:22:00 -
[150] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Crysantos Callahan wrote:So we just use 5x Wing leaders with drone assists on them for a full fleet?
Just saying... As long as the members of those wings only have one drone each, then sure!
Since you are removing the upsides of drones what about the downsides? Will they get any boosts? Like more better resists for drones to increase their lifetime on the field? Given how stupidly easy it is to strip drone doctrines that are not capital based of their dps? |
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