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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:02:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Zaratol
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Jack'O Blades Analogy: Microsoft Windows
Patent own by Microsoft Corporation
The demand is ever increasing and Microsoft has a monopoly (almost!!!) on the PC operating system.
So why dont they increase the price of their product... let's say ten folds?
That's not comparable.
Microsoft can sell any number of copies of Windows they want.
But a HAC producer can only build one every 36 hours.
Do you honestly call that a argument? Get a grip!
No, I don't. Its not an "argument", its a fact.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Favors4Isk
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:03:00 -
[32]
Everyone likes to justify but not question. Nice to see that in a world where questioning leads the curve. I hear alot about free-market, player-driven market, and capitalism. Well, ask anyone that experinced the fall of communism in eastern europe how well a "free-market" runs without a solid legal system (i.e- regulation) in place. In that part of the world, a chosen few (chosen by the those loyal to the government) became over-night billionaires by performing price fixing, assets striping and downright theft. It became the largest example of organized crime in the worlds histroy.
In 99% of free markets there are laws against price fixing. A patent is not a government regulated monopoly. It only protects very specific details of a product or design, but offers no protection for the general item (in this case a class of ship called a HAC). And supply and deemand is driven by the lack of supply and surplus of demand, not by the surplus of greed. Why are there multiple HACs that sit on the market for days before they sell? If the price was truly driven by a lack of supply and surplus of demand then the HAC would sell in a day, not the avergae of 3-7 days they currently take to sell (dont believe me, then goto Jita and check the quantity, volume, and amount of days left on the market orders).
Anyone who flys a HAC and does not get them directly from an alliance or producer, at a resonable cost, is being taken for a ride down stupid street.
I do understand that CCP is introducing BPCs for these items, which is great. This is a form of regulation I was refering to which any free market needs to function. The end to HAC price fixing is coming to a swift end soon.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:05:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Favors4Isk In 99% of free markets there are laws against price fixing.
But there's no price fixing going on for any T2 ship in EVE. The only price fixing deals with BCS2 (which are falling in price), CR2s, and Imp cloak IIs.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Usul Faust
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:06:00 -
[34]
CCP are addressing price fixing by introducing more BPs via reverse engineering.
no skills, just luck.
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Usul Faust
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:08:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Favors4Isk In 99% of free markets there are laws against price fixing.
But there's no price fixing going on for any T2 ship in EVE. The only price fixing deals with BCS2 (which are falling in price), CR2s, and Imp cloak IIs.
That's not strictly true, though. its rare to find a HAC for lower than the price it's settled at recently - why would that be? Its certainly not t2 producers competing directly on price.
no skills, just luck.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:09:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Usul Faust
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Favors4Isk In 99% of free markets there are laws against price fixing.
But there's no price fixing going on for any T2 ship in EVE. The only price fixing deals with BCS2 (which are falling in price), CR2s, and Imp cloak IIs.
That's not strictly true, though. its rare to find a HAC for lower than the price it's settled at recently - why would that be? Its certainly not t2 producers competing directly on price.
What do you mean?
I have seen producers sell for less quite often--the ship is simply resold.
Its a matter of supply and demand, as many posters have said. Supply is constant, and demand is farking high and basically inelastic. This is a recipe for disaster price-wise, and ensures incredibly high prices.
I know many HAC producers, and trust me, there is no conspiracy going on to raise prices
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Usul Faust
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:13:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Usul Faust on 06/04/2006 09:15:10
nonono i don't mean sinister cartels meeting in darkened, smoke filled IRC channels to plot the downfall of free enterprise - i mean the practical cost of these things to the consumer has reached a constant, and they're hardly looking to reduce that figure.
not price fixing per-se, more of a mutual accord on how much these things cost.
no skills, just luck.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:16:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Usul Faust Edited by: Usul Faust on 06/04/2006 09:14:00
nonono i don't mean sinister cartels meeting in darkened, smoke filled IRC channels to plot the downfall of free enterprise - i mean the practical cost of these things to the consumer has reached a constant, and they're hardly looking to reduce that figure.
I've found as a T2 producer myself (though I don't have any BPOs for overpriced items like HACs) that prices seem to follow their own route. When they decide to drop, they DROP.
So I don't think there's a HAC bubble atm--their perceived value is actually what people will and are paying.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Usul Faust
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:22:00 -
[39]
I think the cheaper items are more subject to market trends than somthing like a HAC anyway. BPOs for something elastic like t2 ammo are comparatively common, and can be produced en masse. It blows the market wide open.
The HAC market is considerably less elastic.
no skills, just luck.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:23:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Usul Faust I think the cheaper items are more subject to market trends than somthing like a HAC anyway. BPOs for something elastic like t2 ammo are comparatively common, and can be produced en masse. It blows the market wide open.
The HAC market is considerably less elastic.
Definitely agreed. This is also why people value the HAC BPOs so much: many people prefer an inelastic market where they can have relatively guaranteed profits, versus a market in which they could make or lose their fortune at any time.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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BigEejit
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:34:00 -
[41]
Edited by: BigEejit on 06/04/2006 09:35:25
Originally by: Eternal Fury
SLAM SOLD to the Amarr in the robes.. no the other one.. nope, the other one.. the one beating his Minnie slave.. no the other.. (gives up and walks over to the auction winner) please quit beating your slave long enought to sign here please.
hehe ...
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:38:00 -
[42]
Not again
Now recruiting!
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Leilani Solaris
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:40:00 -
[43]
How many of these threads do we actually need going at any one time? There's at least 3 going around atm.. try reading past the first page. I haven't got a new sig yet :)
http://triad.eve-killboard.net/
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Mark Wieneke
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:41:00 -
[44]
Unless CCP ties the number of T2 BPOs to the number of players prices will continue to raise.
IMO the best solution would be to add slightly inferior bootlegged versions of T2 ships that can only be built in 0.0, make the ships and BPOs contraband in high sec empire.
I want a "Wagabond" with the looks of the real thing and 15-25% worse stats please
From a RP point of view, with the current inflated HAC prices half the 0.0 population should be flooding the market with cheap replicas anyway.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:46:00 -
[45]
Originally by: jamesw There are no "made in Taiwan" HAC's to drive prices back down.
yes there are... pirate faction ships
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:48:00 -
[46]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: jamesw There are no "made in Taiwan" HAC's to drive prices back down.
yes there are... pirate faction ships
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:49:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Zaratol
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Jack'O Blades Analogy: Microsoft Windows
Patent own by Microsoft Corporation
The demand is ever increasing and Microsoft has a monopoly (almost!!!) on the PC operating system.
So why dont they increase the price of their product... let's say ten folds?
That's not comparable.
Microsoft can sell any number of copies of Windows they want.
But a HAC producer can only build one every 36 hours.
Do you honestly call that a argument? Get a grip!
you just made me rofl
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:49:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Jack'O Blades Analogy: Microsoft Windows
Patent own by Microsoft Corporation
The demand is ever increasing and Microsoft has a monopoly (almost!!!) on the PC operating system.
So why dont they increase the price of their product... let's say ten folds?
And btw I dont need an answer (examples given in some reply seems to suggest Im a morron). Nontheless, there will be an outrage!!!
Now back to Eve, HAC price is an outrage... can we do something about it??? Not much... hence the system is BROKEN.
Anyways, the reason for this post is because I got irritated with the annoying wanabe HAC owners whinage... and the the wanabe Economic genius with their all-and-nothing supply and demand excuse.
there is no limited supply of copies of windows. the u2 gig was a much better analogy
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Alyth
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:51:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Steven Dynahir
Quote: Wannabe Economics genius please explain HAC price...
1. 20 BPOS (per type) 2. ~20 new ships 36 hours (per type) 3. 100,000 players with ~20k active at any one time
edited for accuracy
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:53:00 -
[50]
and here is biggest point of it at all. i'll write it in all capital letters just to make the point (ginger gave me that idea):
NOT EVERYONE IS SUPPOSED TO BE FLYING HACS
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.06 09:56:00 -
[51]
Why Khatred isnt here yet? ----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Alyth
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Posted - 2006.04.06 10:05:00 -
[52]
Originally by: HippoKing and here is biggest point of it at all. i'll write it in all capital letters just to make the point (ginger gave me that idea):
NOT EVERYONE IS SUPPOSED TO BE FLYING HACS
EVE = freeform. Just who IS 'supposed' to fly a HAC? TBH those that can afford it are entitled to use one. Then again they should not be as accessible and should either require more training and be put in a more specialised role just like all the other T2 ships.
ANd keep the prices high because I like the extra satisfaction of costing my enemy 300 mill with a 7 mill t1 that does the job just as well
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Sarmaul 2
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Posted - 2006.04.06 10:06:00 -
[53]
Originally by: HippoKing and here is biggest point of it at all. i'll write it in all capital letters just to make the point (ginger gave me that idea):
NOT EVERYONE IS SUPPOSED TO BE FLYING HACS
Prove it.
___________________________________ Account Cancelled |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.06 10:07:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/04/2006 10:07:47
Originally by: Sarmaul 2
Originally by: HippoKing and here is biggest point of it at all. i'll write it in all capital letters just to make the point (ginger gave me that idea):
NOT EVERYONE IS SUPPOSED TO BE FLYING HACS
Prove it.
No. You're quitting EVE so nobody has any obligation to do what you say
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Sarmaul 2
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Posted - 2006.04.06 10:08:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/04/2006 10:07:47
Originally by: Sarmaul 2
Originally by: HippoKing and here is biggest point of it at all. i'll write it in all capital letters just to make the point (ginger gave me that idea):
NOT EVERYONE IS SUPPOSED TO BE FLYING HACS
Prove it.
No. You're quitting EVE so nobody has any obligation to do what you say
gah
___________________________________ Account Cancelled |
Jack'O Blades
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Posted - 2006.04.06 10:45:00 -
[56]
Wow so many replies...
Anyways, I was having my dinner when I thought of something:
What if I buy a HAC with an exorbitant price to find out who the shark is... then declare war to his corp and use the HAC to stick it to his own bloody a*ss.
Only problem... HACs too expensive to be used as an anal probe... damn...
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.06 10:47:00 -
[57]
well, do it then. i'm sure you'll have fun.
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.06 10:49:00 -
[58]
Another point of view. Maybe the population in EvE is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to rich compared to the minority. The rich can afford it, the poor whine about it? ----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! |
dingadong
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Posted - 2006.04.06 10:52:00 -
[59]
some prices are just to high, 1 year old char, moderate player should be able to fly a HAC and the only reason people like NAGA make threads like this is because they profit parasitely on players.
BPO=Power
so have fun ruining the game with your stupid prices, the only reason they are high is because the supply can only be bought by old players or ones who play allot more then a moderate player
there is no sense in getting threw to you, because theres always a way to counter ones post, as i do the same.
the question that would be most intresting for CCP is how do you think the other 99% without an I-Win-BPO feels.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.06 10:53:00 -
[60]
Originally by: dingadong the question that would be most intresting for CCP is how do you think the other 99% without an I-Win-BPO feels.
Wait for Kali? ----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! |
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