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Constantly Outraged Sebiestor
Gutter Press
49
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Posted - 2014.02.08 11:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
When a mother has a child, usually the family celebrates the arrival of another member.
This is not always the case, when the mother is a capsuleer.
While some capsuleers chose to be infertile, and avoid fleshy entanglements, others specify fertile clones, and seek to reproduce. Many question the ability of a semi-immortal death dealer to be a competent parent, and some go as far as saying that no capsuleer should be allowed to have children.
One such group are some extreme tribal traditionalists, who have expressed concern over the ability of a capsuleer to have children for a long, long time.
"a pod pilot could live what? a thousand years? having children all that time?", said one such traditionalist. "I heard capsuleers can have like, ten bodies, all pregnant at the same time", said a starship engineering technician. "If like, a capsuleeress has children, and she's firing them out like a 125mm Light Gallium Machine Gun, then that'd totes have an effect on Tribal society", said an exotic dancer.
"If a capsuleer has a thousand children, they'll all listen to what Mother has to say, which will destabilise the whole tribal society." said another traditionalist. "The whole point of tribal chiefs and elders, is that parents aren't around forever, and tribespeople need guidance. If your mother is immortal, then you won't need the tribal chief or elder, will you?" said a concerned militiaman. "The whole framework of the Tribes will collapse, and where will we be then?" asked a livestock herder. "Screwed, that's where".
Some of the traditionalists are planning on bringing this issue up with their clan and tribal chiefs, hoping it will come before the Tribal Council itself.
Gutter Press, the stories you didn't know were happening. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
871
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Posted - 2014.02.08 11:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Having children as a capsuleer might be the cruelest thing possible you could do to children because you cannot fight against your desire to have your own children.
Before trying to engaging in an intercourse think first, what life awaits your children, what would be their designated place in society and how they will be treated by other children and mentors!
Best thing you could do is forget about your reproductive functions and do your jobs as soldiers and pilots, and if your desire to have children still haunts you, simply treat your following clones as the only children you can have.
For your own sake, society and your possible children... |
Kyllsa Siikanen
Gradient
187
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Posted - 2014.02.08 13:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
The normal lifespan for a Matari now is on the order of 125 to 150 years, and lives longer arent unheard of. The Amarr in particular can live for many hundreds of years, over 500 in some cases, so it is theoretically possible here, too.
Let's do some math, shall we?
If I trace my line back n generations, I will find 2^n ancestors. So, if i go back 5 (my great great great grandparents, some of whom I met when I was a little girl) I have 32 ancestors. Hmm.
If i go back 10 - perhaps only 250 to 300 years - I have 1024 of them.
Let's do that in reverse!
For every child I have, if i live to be 300 ( Unlikely anywhere but the Empire, of course) I may have up to 1024 direct heirs for every child I had. Even if i live to see my great great great grandbabies, I will have 32 for each child I had. People have been doing this for a while now, and I we havent seen any single family or Clan upset the apple cart.
The Elders themselves are reputed to be many centuries old. It is reasonable to assume some of them have/had heirs. If we assume they actually exist at all, then each of them would have heirs numbering into the tens of thousands.
Also, in short, getting one's own children to obey you can be an exercise in futility. To do so with kids generations removed? They likely won't even ask you the time or know your name. Kids these days!
Capsuleers form a tiny subset of the population who have managed to not die permanently, provided that death occurs in a very limited set of parameters, for TEN YEARS. When they've managed to prove they can continue to exist for longer than they might have had they not become capsuleers in the first place, maybe revisit this topic.
I do not believe we need to prepare for the imminent collapse of the sky over this just yet. A cornerstone of Tribal society is the passage of norms, history, and so on from ancestor to descendant. Where's the problem?
GÇ£Crying is all right in its own way while it lasts. But you have to stop sooner or later, and then you still have to decide what to do.GÇ¥-á
GÇò C.S. Lewis-á |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
2298
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Posted - 2014.02.08 18:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kyllsa Siikanen wrote:If i go back 10 - perhaps only 250 to 300 years - I have 1024 of them.
Don't the tribes give some kind of award to women who have lots of kids?
Nullsec in a Nutshell: http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |
Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
356
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Posted - 2014.02.08 18:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yes it's called welfare.
-Eran |
Xindi Kraid
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
715
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Posted - 2014.02.08 23:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Wow way to take what could have been an interesting philosophical discussion and mucking it up by having gutter press be the one posting it.
A healthy child learns how to detach themselves from their parents and seek their own path when they grow up (but not before) while maintaining a healthy relationship with their parents, so if these theoretical children grew up in society they should still seek guidance from all the usual sources regardless of if their parents are capsuleers or not. The only difference with having a parent that lives forever is you can ask them for advice on how to be a grandparent or such and will always have that extra resource. To me that sounds like an improvement.
The real concern is what having a parent who dies every other day and gets a new body might do for home life or should an expecting mother go anywhere near her pod? |
N'maro Makari
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
368
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Posted - 2014.02.08 23:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:Kyllsa Siikanen wrote:If i go back 10 - perhaps only 250 to 300 years - I have 1024 of them. Don't the tribes give some kind of award to women who have lots of kids?
No. In a word. N'maro Makari Executive Officer The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative |
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
1041
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Posted - 2014.02.09 00:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:A healthy child learns how to detach themselves from their parents and seek their own path when they grow up (but not before) while maintaining a healthy relationship with their parents, so if these theoretical children grew up in society they should still seek guidance from all the usual sources regardless of if their parents are capsuleers or not. The only difference with having a parent that lives forever is you can ask them for advice on how to be a grandparent or such and will always have that extra resource. To me that sounds like an improvement.
In Khanid culture, a child is expected to respect and obey their parents, grandparents, and other elders, even if they're an adult. I might have different opinions than they do, but I have a social and spiritual obligation to do what they desire of me.
Lord Hanaya, our Holder, was alive when the Caldari first joined the Gallente Federation. Given his advanced age and the various hardships he's endured, he's had to withdraw somewhat from Hanaya affairs, but he's still the one in charge. Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's. |
Saya Ishikari
Akagi Initiative
195
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Posted - 2014.02.09 01:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
This ignores the possibility of inducing population growth artificially, as has been done already, via the tube child program. Forget what an immortal parent can pop out in nine months... Imagine batches of hundreds, perhaps thousands, on demand in a similar timeframe (and that assumes no genetic tampering), raised en masse in a common program largely devoid of what most consider traditional parental influence. Comparatively, any statistical or ethical considerations of a capsuleers children (who are not guaranteed to be capsule compatible themselves) are minutiae in a far greater concern.
In short, there are better things to worry about. |
Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
362
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 01:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Personally I believe all capsuleers should be barren and impotent. There's no sense in being an immortal with mortal children. Just take a sample of capsuleers and I think you will find most to be terrible parents. Whether that's a result of them murdering thousands of people with no remorse or because they were just raised wrong is another matter.
Really though, the thought is unnerving. I remember when Mrs. Newelle-Shutaq was with child and she still flew into combat...it's just not meant to be.
-Eran |
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3242
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Posted - 2014.02.09 07:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:Xindi Kraid wrote:A healthy child learns how to detach themselves from their parents and seek their own path when they grow up (but not before) while maintaining a healthy relationship with their parents, so if these theoretical children grew up in society they should still seek guidance from all the usual sources regardless of if their parents are capsuleers or not. The only difference with having a parent that lives forever is you can ask them for advice on how to be a grandparent or such and will always have that extra resource. To me that sounds like an improvement. In Khanid culture, a child is expected to respect and obey their parents, grandparents, and other elders, even if they're an adult. I might have different opinions than they do, but I have a social and spiritual obligation to do what they desire of me. Lord Hanaya, our Holder, was alive when the Caldari first joined the Gallente Federation. Given his advanced age and the various hardships he's endured, he's had to withdraw somewhat from Hanaya affairs, but he's still the one in charge.
Honestly, anyone would think we don't honour our ancestors in the State. We do, I promise! |
Tabor Murn
Gradient
51
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Posted - 2014.02.09 07:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:Personally I believe all capsuleers should be barren and impotent. There's no sense in being an immortal with mortal children. Just take a sample of capsuleers and I think you will find most to be terrible parents. Whether that's a result of them murdering thousands of people with no remorse or because they were just raised wrong is another matter.
Really though, the thought is unnerving. I remember when Mrs. Newelle-Shutaq was with child and she still flew into combat...it's just not meant to be.
-Eran
It's far to early to say capsuleers are immortal. I believe it more accurate to say we're merely death-resistant. I also feel that would be a good thing for a prospective parent. It means a parent can go, if needed, to defend their way of life, to shield their children from harm, and in all likelihood still be present in their child's life. What a blessing that would be to any other parent. The only thing better would be similar insurance that our children could not come to harm.
As to the original article. Not all traditionalists think that way. Many want to rebuild Minmatar society and a sure way of doing that is to bring many more traditionalists into this world. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
874
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 08:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Oh, capsuleers are mortal. Maybe even way more more mortal than 'baseliners': we live way less and die very fast. Unluckily for us. But our clones create illusion for others, that we continue living. |
Karynn Denton
Clan Katanga Caravan
92
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Posted - 2014.02.09 08:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
I agree with Eran on this. Be either a parent or a capsuleer - don't do your children or career the injustice of trying to be both.
Personally, I love children. I spend a couple of hours each day in the Caravan's creche, helping out with the bairns and entertaining the older ones with my smuggling and dogfighting adventures. Their little faces are a picture! Some of the girls have even taken to dyeing their hair red and run about the decks with toy Rifters... it's so sweet!
But my duties as an Outrider always come first. The lives of those children depend on it.
Thukker Outrider, Frigateer and Booster-Smuggler. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
874
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 08:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:Personally I believe all capsuleers should be barren and impotent.
With this I, unfortunately, cannot agree. While this should be necessary for gallenteans, for civilized peoples this is just a waste of resources. Mr. Mintor, we aren't animals, we are sentient beings, who have brains and who can control our bodies, it is in our power to decide, where we engage in intercourse or no, whether we make children or no.
When we control ourselves and avoid undesirable contacts, there is no chance of having children. |
Lasairiona Raske
Aurea Litai Industries Deritan Industries Ltd.
108
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Posted - 2014.02.09 09:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Eric and I do both. I have to say, do not speak of things that you do not know. Being a mother is the best thing in the world. And, no, I don't go "popping out" children constantly. It's about self control. Three is certainly enough for me at this time. If they decide to be capsuleers, so be it. If not, I will love them and support them just the same. It is not cruel or heartless to want a family. In fact, I think it's the indicator of a normal person. |
Vulxanis Viceroy
Xiadii Family Holdings
27
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Posted - 2014.02.09 15:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Oh, capsuleers are mortal. Maybe even way more more mortal than 'baseliners': we live way less and die very fast. Unluckily for us. But our clones create illusion for others, that we continue living.
One does not make a baby. Intercourse merely starts the growing process. God is the one who literally makes the baby.
Lasairiona Raske wrote:Eric and I do both. I have to say, do not speak of things that you do not know. Being a mother is the best thing in the world. And, no, I don't go "popping out" children constantly. It's about self control. Three is certainly enough for me at this time. If they decide to be capsuleers, so be it. If not, I will love them and support them just the same. It is not cruel or heartless to want a family. In fact, I think it's the indicator of a normal person.
And as for whether or not capsuleers should have children, I agree with Miss Raske-Lancier. Her daughter is a lovely young lady who is happily growing up with two very loving parents.
Unless a capsuleer regularly participates in unrestrained promiscuity and chooses to have lots of children, I see the concerns of these tribal leaders to be unnecessary.
I cannot imagine most capsuleers wanting to have children, as they are a lot of work and most capsuleers do not want to be tied down. For them I simply recommend sterile clones. Unless you are able to devote yourself like Miss Raske-Lancier and her husband, you should not have a child. That goes for both capsuleers and baseliners. - Lord Vulxanis Nitsujj Draconis.-áHolder of the Xiadii Family and House Draconis, CEO of Xiadii Family Holdings.
Fide et honore. |
Arkady Vachon
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
843
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 07:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think its a personal choice.
I would not want to have children, myself, because they will always have to live in one kind of danger or another, and their children after that. Because of the enemies that a capsuleer inevitabily makes across the Cluster in their existence essentially places a target upon their backs.
Security forces only do so much, and sooner or later, unless they are just living and working completely within your holdings or corporate empires, they will strike out on their own...and I don't want what I have done to make them have to be watching over their shoulders for their lives, and the lives of their children.
But, that's just my thinking.
I have other, more personal reasons why I deign not to have children, but that's another story.
While I have not sterilized my clones outright, contraceptive regimens both both genders are extremely effective. Nothing Personal - Just Business...
Chaos Creates Content |
Kyllsa Siikanen
Gradient
191
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Posted - 2014.02.10 12:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lots of "normal" people are horrid, abusive parents, neglectful, selfish, unfit.
Lots of capsuleers are not. GÇ£Crying is all right in its own way while it lasts. But you have to stop sooner or later, and then you still have to decide what to do.GÇ¥-á
GÇò C.S. Lewis-á |
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
354
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 12:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
This is the problem with inert traditional societies, like the tribal one - any time some kind of a new complex social conundrum or construct appears, it is usually wrongly considered as a threat to the status quo.
Don't get me wrong, a strong and clear hierarchy is most important in a working society, but an a priori disproval of any new phenomena as 'wrong' or 'hostile' is not helping anyone. - Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim ___________________________ Angels are never far... Stillwater Corporation recruitment open. |
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Ciarente
Toin Night Research
6
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Posted - 2014.02.20 08:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
How delightful to see so many people ready to share their opinions on my suitability as a mother! Thank you ever so for sharing your terribly informed opinions on what is best for my family! I will most definitely give them all the attention they deserve! |
Laria Raven
Stillwater Corporation
88
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 08:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Given capsuleers prolonged attempts to denude the entire cluster of any human life whatsoever, maybe we should be encouraging a one in, one out policy?
...didn't think so.
Here's the thing - capsuleers make choices about their bodies, about their relationships, about whether they want or can support children, about the risks and the uncertainties.
Just like everyone else.
And whilst we have great power. Well, OK, some of us have great power, and most of us have great wealth... in the end, our personal decisions are not significantly different to the rest of the species. And are also, and possibly most importantly, not anyone else's business.
Fallen from grace. And as night comes, may flights of Angels visit your sleep... shoot your ships and steal all of your stuff. |
Apollo Lyserius
The Scope Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2014.02.20 11:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
Most, if not all, the arguments against capsuleer parenting exposed here are vague generic assumptions about the psychological aptitude of capsuleers as if they were an uniform lot, all with similar mindsets and activities.The rest are easily circumvented matters. Not all of us are murderer-death-dealers-adventurers-who-live-on-constant-risk.
Children of capsuleers may perfectly follow their steps and become capsuleers as well. My wild guess is that in a medium-term future, the entirety of humanity will eventually become immortal - just look at the recent advent of immortal infantry. How far are we from exporting that technology to civilians?
Being a capsuleer is irrelevant to one's aptitude to be a parent. Military personnel and industrial staff working on remote corners of the cluster may be worse parents than capsuleers living safely on the core of high-security space. And even that is a generic and potentially wrong assumption - some of the best fathers I know have fought long wars away from home.
So, until we have a case of a capsuleer becoming so old and having died so much that he loses all of his humanity, much like the vampires of fiction, being a capsuleer influences nothing on one's aptitude to be a parent.
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Kyllsa Siikanen
Gradient
192
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Posted - 2014.02.20 13:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ciarente wrote:How delightful to see so many people ready to share their opinions on my suitability as a mother! Thank you ever so for sharing your terribly informed opinions on what is best for my family! I will most definitely give them all the attention they deserve!
I like you. GÇ£Crying is all right in its own way while it lasts. But you have to stop sooner or later, and then you still have to decide what to do.GÇ¥-á
GÇò C.S. Lewis-á |
Iwan Terpalen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
120
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Posted - 2014.02.20 13:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
That's what high-grade social implants hard at work look like, I take it. |
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