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Toxicmoon
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.02.11 20:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
After noon all,
First, IGÇÖm going start with GÇ£I made some bad choicesGÇ¥. I feel I had made better choices after the fact but luck wasnGÇÖt on my side this last time.
Recently returned. Prior to leaving I didnGÇÖt have much trouble with these types of things before. Now been having all sorts of issues.
So spit it out already whatGÇÖs the problem? Just Hauling stuff. I only manually fly, I do not use AP.
I logon for the first time in a year or two. Find myself in Jita. Decided before I fly out down to my assets IGÇÖd load up a frigate with something for a return (region trading). Undock, insta popped. IGÇÖve been back a whole 5mins.
Ok, I really canGÇÖt blame anyone but myself on that one. I should of tanked it and choose a better hull if I was going to be moving something of decent value, plus had a insta undock bookmark set.
Next I jump in my freighter and IGÇÖm moving a bit of trit down a high sec pipeline, while aligning an attempt was made by a fleet to gank me. I managed to get out with 15% structure. Thankfully they didnGÇÖt have enough DPS before concord showed up. The next 30mins or so I spent repping the thing because it was 90m to repair it.
This point the freighter has no value to me anymore, I canGÇÖt move product. Quite a big hit to lose that. IGÇÖll reframe from trading and moving stuff and just use it for my needs. Not worth the risk. Which is a real shame, thatGÇÖs one of the things I enjoy doing and was looking forward too. So I sold it and decided to stick with just transport ships, which I have max skill for. Sure IGÇÖll have to take a bunch of extra trips. But least survivalbity is greatly improved. Mean time perhaps IGÇÖll another use for this guy.
Last night I was moving stuff one jump out in low sec for one of my other toons. Like I often did in the past. I never warp directly to station if I canGÇÖt D-scan the station first. In this case I could see the station from the gate. All clear, cool. After I warped (cloaked) , a ship undocked at the station. Not something I can really control. Least I do have a bit of a shield tank fitted,nice resists. I land, my ship decloakGÇÖs naturally. Insta popped before docking request completed.
Reflecting back, in the short time IGÇÖve been back things havenGÇÖt been going so well for me. While hauling something in a frigate was a stupid on my part. The rest of my experience thus far was things out of my control. To the point I canGÇÖt even haul something in any configuration I can currently fly (Frig, hauler, Transport, Freighter).
Appreciate advice on the GÇ£how toGÇ¥ of EVE today to perform the following Moving something from hisec to hisec Moving something from hisec to low sec. Ship types and or fits would be appreciated. I assume any type of hauler is out. My guess is T3 cruiser is the way to move things around now x 4000 trips?
Thanks
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
2417
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 20:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Red Frog. Those guys can get freaking anything done. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Billy McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
286
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 20:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Red Frog. Those guys can get freaking anything done.
This |
Billy McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
286
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 20:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
wate tho
how did yoo rep it?
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4160
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 20:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Billy McCandless wrote:wate tho
how did yoo rep it?
Because he's not as new as he says he is. The only way is with a RR alt, if I'm not mistaken.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4660
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 20:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Toxicmoon wrote:After noon all, First, IGÇÖm going start with GÇ£I made some bad choicesGÇ¥. I feel I had made better choices after the fact but luck wasnGÇÖt on my side this last time. Recently returned. Prior to leaving I didnGÇÖt have much trouble with these types of things before. Now been having all sorts of issues. So spit it out already whatGÇÖs the problem? Just Hauling stuff. I only manually fly, I do not use AP. I logon for the first time in a year or two. Find myself in Jita. Decided before I fly out down to my assets IGÇÖd load up a frigate with something for a return (region trading). Undock, insta popped. IGÇÖve been back a whole 5mins. Ok, I really canGÇÖt blame anyone but myself on that one. I should of tanked it and choose a better hull if I was going to be moving something of decent value, plus had a insta undock bookmark set. Next I jump in my freighter and IGÇÖm moving a bit of trit down a high sec pipeline, while aligning an attempt was made by a fleet to gank me. I managed to get out with 15% structure. Thankfully they didnGÇÖt have enough DPS before concord showed up. The next 30mins or so I spent repping the thing because it was 90m to repair it. This point the freighter has no value to me anymore, I canGÇÖt move product. Quite a big hit to lose that. IGÇÖll reframe from trading and moving stuff and just use it for my needs. Not worth the risk. Which is a real shame, thatGÇÖs one of the things I enjoy doing and was looking forward too. So I sold it and decided to stick with just transport ships, which I have max skill for. Sure IGÇÖll have to take a bunch of extra trips. But least survivalbity is greatly improved. Mean time perhaps IGÇÖll another use for this guy. Last night I was moving stuff one jump out in low sec for one of my other toons. Like I often did in the past. I never warp directly to station if I canGÇÖt D-scan the station first. In this case I could see the station from the gate. All clear, cool. After I warped (cloaked) , a ship undocked at the station. Not something I can really control. Least I do have a bit of a shield tank fitted,nice resists. I land, my ship decloakGÇÖs naturally. Insta popped before docking request completed. Reflecting back, in the short time IGÇÖve been back things havenGÇÖt been going so well for me. While hauling something in a frigate was a stupid on my part. The rest of my experience thus far was things out of my control. To the point I canGÇÖt even haul something in any configuration I can currently fly (Frig, hauler, Transport, Freighter). Appreciate advice on the GÇ£how toGÇ¥ of EVE today to perform the following Moving something from hisec to hisec Moving something from hisec to low sec. Ship types and or fits would be appreciated. I assume any type of hauler is out. My guess is T3 cruiser is the way to move things around now x 4000 trips? Thanks
Freighter isn't useless, you just either need to move stuff under a bil in total value or use can and shrink wrap (with decoy shrink wraps) to make the gankers gamble on their pay out (most don't like to do that in my experience).
As for low sec, have a bookmark right on top of the station and warp to it rather than warping to zero. That way the millisecond you land you can dock. And be uncloaked BEFORE you land so as to have nothing that delays your docking. And have a tank, gankers aren't expecting a damage control and shield resistance amps on a hauler even in low sec.
Also high sec to low sec, jump freighters are nice. undock in high sec, jump to cyno (place cyno correctly), profit.
I have been moving stuff in and out of low sec for whatever alliance I've been in since 2008 and have lost exactly one hauler (old iteron mk iii whatever its called now, and it was empty).
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Billy McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
286
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 20:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Billy McCandless wrote:wate tho
how did yoo rep it?
Because he's not as new as he says he is. The only way is with a RR alt, if I'm not mistaken. Mr Epeen
Yeah
so why arr those RR alt(s) escorting his frater? |
Toxicmoon
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.02.11 20:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Billy McCandless wrote:wate tho
how did yoo rep it?
Because he's not as new as he says he is. Mr Epeen
I never said I was new man. Sad returning player. Yes I remote repped it. |
Alice Ituin
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
51
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Posted - 2014.02.11 20:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Uhm.... for freighters never move more than 1 bil worth of cargo and you are fine, but personally I just use Red Frog Freight.
For moving stuff to low just use the T2 industrials. Make docking bookmarks for stations. Warp to zero isn't really warp to zero anymore, so if you are unlucky and drop out 3km from the station you are screwed. |
Natassia Krasnoo
R3D SHIFT Brothers Of The Dark Sun
135
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Posted - 2014.02.11 20:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Get an alt that can use webs. That will allow you to web your freighter and insta warp it. Works pretty well except against insta lock frigs. Choose stations with large docking rings to prevent long docking times. Hopefully that will help you out a little. |
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Billy McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
286
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 20:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Toxicmoon wrote: I never said I was new man. Sad returning player. Yes I remote repped it.
So escort the freighter then |
Toxicmoon
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 20:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Quote:Freighter isn't useless, you just either need to move stuff under a bil in total value
I had 400m isk value of Trit in my hold at the time of attempted gank.
This sounds interesting, do you mean contract it up to make it in to a package? Is that what you mean? If that's the case I didn't realize the contents of that couldn't be scanned. That's helpful. However from what I observed it's not about the profit but rather the thrill of tha gank. But for those looking to blow it up for profit this will go a long way to avoid that experience. Thanks :)
Quote:As for low sec, have a bookmark right on top of the station and warp to it rather than warping to zero. That way the millisecond you land you can dock. And be uncloaked BEFORE you land so as to have nothing that delays your docking. And have a tank, gankers aren't expecting a damage control and shield resistance amps on a hauler even in low sec.
Book marking on the top of the station sounds like a great idea. While it doesn't address a snipe/arty/rail fit, it would have saved me on my experience last night on the close range fit pop I received. Thanks :)
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Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1661
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Posted - 2014.02.11 20:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
losing the frigate, were you loitering long enough to get scanned or were you the victim of a random act of violence? There's so much traffic there that I'm surprised you would be scanned and targeted for destruction before even being able to warp off.
Coming close with the freighter, how much trit were you carrying? The most cited number for the gank threshold is around the 1.5 bn mark, maybe a bit lower. However, it does get quite a bit higher if you're in a 0.7 or above. You're still vulnerable to tornado instapopping, but that's a bit less common considering how well it can be done in a 0.5 with catalysts.
An orca can significantly out-tank an obelisk while being faster and carrying abotu 100k m3 of cargo, 50km3 of ore, plus the ship maintenance bay. This is a good option if you aren't able to use all that cargo space that freighters have.
getting insta'd on stations really sucks, especially if you're trying to dock and well within range. Its a really bad way to lose a blingy tengu. Gotta remember to turn those hardeners on even for that brief second before the system lets you dock.
I might point out that blockade runners are very good at moving high value cargoes of limited volume. You can also use double-wrap courier contracts to avoid getting scanned (the fact these still exist should tell you something about CCP). You may consider splitting up your load for crossing the dangerous systems. But yeah, the days of "fill freighter, fly to Jita" are pretty gone. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation Boarderline Cartel
1761
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 20:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:
Because he's not as new as he says he is. The only way is with a RR alt, if I'm not mistaken.
He's probably not telling the truth, either. I've moved expensive stuff around high sec quite often. Just have to make sure there's no wardec active. I usually try to pile no more than a billion or so in a freighter. Autopilot is a no no the more valuable the cargo. When I move something really valuable and small, I do it in a blockade runner. When I move something valuable and large, I bring a corp buddie to web myself off the gates.
Oh, and I have a jump freighter too, for that "other" stuff.
Seriously moving stuff around the EVE universe is just a matter of organization and time. I'm pretty sure it's only the ones that deserve it who get ganked. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1661
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 21:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
He didn't say he was new at all, did he?
Also, I'm curious to know how often you get cargoes that will fit in a freighter, but not in an orca, but still be under 1bn isk. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Toxicmoon
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 21:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
The purpose of the thread was to receive help on identifying better ways to move cargo. I communicated what took place. A couple of you had some helpful suggestions that had a lot of value. I appreciate that.
The rest became very granular on over analyzing what I communicated and didnGÇÖt take it at face value. Nothing can be gained by reviewing and arguing what I had already discussed that took place. With that said. Appreciate the helpful suggestions, I got something out of the thread, no close option so IGÇÖll leave it off here.
Thanks!
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Billy McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
287
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 21:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
"Hallo id liek halp"
"sure aye jus need sum details"
"wie"
"so wez can fine yore prollem"
"but i tole yoo i had a prollem"
"yes, and we need two knoe moar"
"wie"
"cos then we kan halp"
"bi bi"
*click*
"???" |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
3041
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 21:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
With a Tornado you can get a volley over 13k. That means even if concord is sitting on a 1.0 sec gate, there's a good chance the T1 industrial is going to pop.
...just sayin'.
I wish I had started highsec ganking years and years ago...
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Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
712
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 03:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
Toxicmoon wrote:Quote:Freighter isn't useless, you just either need to move stuff under a bil in total value I had 400m isk value of Trit in my hold at the time of attempted gank. This sounds interesting, do you mean contract it up to make it in to a package? Is that what you mean? If that's the case I didn't realize the contents of that couldn't be scanned. That's helpful. However from what I observed it's not about the profit but rather the thrill of tha gank. But for those looking to blow it up for profit this will go a long way to avoid that experience. Thanks :) Quote:As for low sec, have a bookmark right on top of the station and warp to it rather than warping to zero. That way the millisecond you land you can dock. And be uncloaked BEFORE you land so as to have nothing that delays your docking. And have a tank, gankers aren't expecting a damage control and shield resistance amps on a hauler even in low sec. Book marking on the top of the station sounds like a great idea. While it doesn't address a snipe/arty/rail fit, it would have saved me on my experience last night on the close range fit pop I received. Thanks :) If you have an insta dock bookmarked up can warp to station loadup. (avoiding bubbles assuming null) then warp to instadock BM and no one can pop you. freighters are very useful in high. amount safe to carry varies with location/route and some areas are always risky. risk free eve isn't a thing. the amount you mitigate risk is a perosnal choice.
Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
Tiberius StarGazer
Trifectas Executor Trifectas Syndicate
409
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Posted - 2014.02.12 05:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Clearly I must have the best luck in the world, only one of my toons has ever been suicide ganked in highsec. Sure I have alts to do the job, but other than being a noob and going to jita a couple of times while in FW to get insta popped by Gallente station campers, never really had an issue.
But, use scouts to provide insta docks and insta undocks and save the bookmarks. It's the only way to be 100% sure. |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16213
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 06:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
If you must move stuff, contract it out with collateral. Redfrog will move stuff all over contiguous highsec, they have a subsidiary or two that do null and lowsec hauling. PushX definitely do highsec, they may or may not do anywhere else.
Both have collateral limits. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2028
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 06:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
High to high, just never put more than 800m of stuff in a freighter and you aren't economically worth ganking. ("For the lulz" ganks are rare as freighter popping isn't cheap). If you have to move high value compact items, use a covops frigate, an interceptor, or something similarly agile. (I often fly ~1b loads around in Interceptors and there's not many systems I would not take things to).
It's the high value bulky items, like Marauder or pirate BS hulls, that are tricky to haul. For those, the best bet is usually brick tanking them, and piloting them - potentially with an alt in a ship that can seriously disrupt ganks (ECM Falcon, bump Machariel, logistics cruiser, in-corp friendly web, etc). Use Jump Freighters outside highsec. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=318489 - Proposal for a new type of tech 2 Destroyer If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
Joan Greywind
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
330
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 07:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
1- Don't autopilot.
2- Use your alts to web
3- Don't fly what you can't afford to lose
4- If you can't afford to lose it but must move it, use Push X, in my experience faster, cheaper, and has more options than redfrog (also they send you mails on progress of contract).
5- If you are moving expensive battleships, fit bulkheads and damage control, will make the prospects of a gank highly unlikely.
6- All the main, heavy gankers in EVE amount to less than 200-300 players and less than 5 corps, with like 20 of them super active, and they camp the same systems. Add them to your watchlist and try to avoid those systems (niarga, deltolle, balle, udema etc...).
7- Dscan if you see, machariel sitting on gate, vexor, catalysts, thoraxes, brutixes, taloses on dscan it is too hot to jump.
8- If you make yourself unprofitable to gank, then the probability of you getting ganked is really low.
9- Don't move purple or gold **** unless you know what you are doing.
10- Don't move things at primetime
11- Use your alt to trigger concord on gate with a noobship.
Highsec is safe, and those gankers are the only thing making it interesting.
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Tuttomenui II
Aliastra Gallente Federation
210
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 09:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
Batelle wrote:
Edit: Shrink Wrap or Plastic Wrap is a known exploit that CCP has sanctioned (meaning its not an exploit). Basically any container inside a courier contract cannot be scanned. That container can be an actual container, or it can be another courier contract. That this mechanic still exists can either be taken as evidence of CCPs supreme laziness, or it can be taken as tacit acknowledgement that freighters are worthless but they don't want to nerf ganking.
Would be funny if they gave freighters 2 low slots and 3 rig slots, made an exception in its description to prevent cargo hold expansion, and added hull trimark riggs. Then we could fit DCU II and a hull bulwark whatever its called, and the hull trimarks. Would take a crap ton of ships to gank a freighter with that much hull at 60% resists. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3146
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 10:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
hop in a frigate with an MWD and undock from jita 4-4, turn the MWD on and burn a minimum of 300Km (preferably go off grid entirely) in a straight line, then create a bookmark.
When you undock, the first thing you do is warp to that bookmark. Because you're already pointing at it and moving at full speed, you'll warp instantly out of undock invulnerability. No instapop possible.
If you're moving high-value, low-volume goods, always invest in a blockade runner. They're agile, they can fit a covops cloak so you can just disappear and not be followed, and best of all they're immune to cargo scanners so nobody knows if it's worth suicide-ganking you if you do somehow screw up and give them the opportunity.
For my part, I sold my freighter after my bounty passed 3 billion. No point flying them any longer, I'd pretty much automatically be a loot pinata. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Joan Greywind
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
331
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 14:03:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tuttomenui II wrote:Batelle wrote:
Edit: Shrink Wrap or Plastic Wrap is a known exploit that CCP has sanctioned (meaning its not an exploit). Basically any container inside a courier contract cannot be scanned. That container can be an actual container, or it can be another courier contract. That this mechanic still exists can either be taken as evidence of CCPs supreme laziness, or it can be taken as tacit acknowledgement that freighters are worthless but they don't want to nerf ganking.
Would be funny if they gave freighters 2 low slots and 3 rig slots, made an exception in its description to prevent cargo hold expansion, and added hull trimark riggs. Then we could fit DCU II and a hull bulwark whatever its called, and the hull trimarks. Would take a crap ton of ships to gank a freighter with that much hull at 60% resists.
Your sense of humor sux |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10116
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 14:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=21866036
Seems OP didn't cloak.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
448
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:
Because he's not as new as he says he is. The only way is with a RR alt, if I'm not mistaken.
He's probably not telling the truth, either. I've moved expensive stuff around high sec quite often. Just have to make sure there's no wardec active. I usually try to pile no more than a billion or so in a freighter. Autopilot is a no no the more valuable the cargo. When I move something really valuable and small, I do it in a blockade runner. When I move something valuable and large, I bring a corp buddie to web myself off the gates. Oh, and I have a jump freighter too, for that "other" stuff. Seriously moving stuff around the EVE universe is just a matter of organization and time. I'm pretty sure it's only the ones that deserve it who get ganked. regarding the frig, it doesn't surprise me, it happened to me once that one of my toon, being brand new (was less than a day old, with just implants and an empty shuttle, was insta killed 1 jump from jita
just random violence i guess...not so common tho, i move it around quite often, yet this only happened once..... but still, it can happen |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
448
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=21866036
Seems OP didn't cloak.
wrong, there are plenty ways to catch this in low, especially with a machariel.
1- when undocking, no insta from transport, insta pop it while he align 2- when undocking, bump him then kill it 3- when docking, if no docking BM / bad BM, can be far enought to give you time for killing it, whether he is cloacked or not
and these are just 3 ways that can explain this specific kill.....
there are plenty other ways, like smartbomb at dock / undock etc.... |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10116
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 19:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
seth Hendar wrote:baltec1 wrote:http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=21866036
Seems OP didn't cloak.
wrong, there are plenty ways to catch this in low, especially with a machariel. 1- when undocking, no insta from transport, insta pop it while he align 2- when undocking, bump him then kill it 3- when docking, if no docking BM / bad BM, can be far enought to give you time for killing it, whether he is cloacked or not and these are just 3 ways that can explain this specific kill..... there are plenty other ways, like smartbomb at dock / undock etc.... and regarding undock, it's pretty easy to prevent one from clocking when undocking, use cans, follow it with a frig at less than 2km.....
Id guess death on undock too. Easily avoided with an insta warp safe.
The real mystery here is why the thread is about freighters. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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