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Naomi Asuna
Bomb's Liquidation and Sales
1
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Posted - 2014.02.12 02:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi,
I'd like to suggest the implementation of a player to player SP market. I've considered buying a toon from the character bazaar many times, but it's always been the same things stopping me from doing it: Toon name, Employement history and standings. If I bought a toon for its skills, I wouldnt want all the other BS that tags along with it. I wouldn't want to get podded or war-dec'd cause of some BS the previous owner of my new toon did.
So i'd like to suggest a way to buy/sell SP. This system would not generate ("spawn") new SP into eve. It takes SP from players and allows it to be sold to other players. The way it would work is as follows:
- CCP sells empty SP chips for AUR. - Player gets an empty SP chip and chooses how much SP from a specific skill should be put into the chip. - Upon accepting the transfer of SP, the empty skill chip turns into "#skillname# - skill chip" with 90% of the SP that was chosen in the previous step. - Player is then able to sell the chip in-game through market. - Buying player takes the chip and consumes it. The SP is added to the specific skill.
Benefits for each party: SP Seller Get isk for skills which you don't need or dont want anymore. Ex: trained a year to fly a missile boat for PvE and has decided to venture into other parts of eve. Now maybe you prefer to fly a minmatar projectile ship but cant cause missile skills dont translate well. Sell the missile skills and use the isk from that to buy project skills (you probably wont be as proficient as you were with missiles due to 10% SP loss and overall market value differences, but you're much closer than if u had to start from scratch) SP Buyer You can finally get that Amarr Battleship skill to lvl5. I'm sure all of you have been postponing getting a certain skill to lvl5 cause it takes a month or more to do. Have some spare isk? buy the skill from another player and enjoy missioning/mining/w.e you do. CCP More AUR/Plex sales, more revenue. If new players can spend an extra $15 to buy a plex, get 600m isk and buy a skill chip from someone else to get their frig, destroyer or cruiser skill to level 5 and enjoy their time in eve, player retention is sure to improve.
FAQ: Why charge AUR for the empty skill chip? 1) Revives the AUR market. Currently there's hardly any use for AUR. 2) Generates profit for CCP. 3) To discourage people from creating multiple alts to farm SP to sell. With the cost of AUR and 10% SP loss, it wouldnt be cost effective to exploit this system to train your main or make isk through chip sales.
More FAQ to come later. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
711
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Posted - 2014.02.12 03:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
This idea has been suggested about once monthly for several years now. I'll let you search the forums and find all the response's
Really bad Idea Really nice presentation though.
+1 for presentation. |
Naomi Asuna
Bomb's Liquidation and Sales
1
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Posted - 2014.02.12 03:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
From the searches I've done I could only find suggestions asking for CCP to sell SP for Plex. Those ideas "spawn" SP into the game and I also agree that it's a terrible idea. But this idea is different in that it's actually an SP sink instead of a faucet. All SP traded in this system has to be earned by somebody in the traditional way in order to be sold. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
675
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Posted - 2014.02.12 03:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
One word... No
Maybe years down the road if Eve is going downhill they'll make it pay to win but not now. |
Naomi Asuna
Bomb's Liquidation and Sales
1
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Posted - 2014.02.12 04:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
How is this different from buying plex for $ and selling it for isk to other players? That's a form of pay to win too. why the double standard?
Again, I cant stress enough that this system does not spawn new SP. All SP sold through the system would be aquired in the traditional way. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
675
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Posted - 2014.02.12 04:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Naomi Asuna wrote:How is this different from buying plex for $ and selling it for isk to other players? That's a form of pay to win too. why the double standard?
Again, I cant stress enough that this system does not spawn new SP. All SP sold through the system would be aquired in the traditional way.
Buying PLEX or ISK isn't going to give you an advantage to win anything in Eve... If anything it will make you lose at Eve. I love people that buy shiny ships they can't fly only to rage when they lose them.
Buying SP however would give you an advantage. Even the ability to dissolve and reinvest SP in ones own pilot would be OP since it would allow you to train everything at max SP per hour negating the attributes and remap system.
Also it would allow people to recreate their pilots under different names to avoid a well deserved reputation for the deeds they have done. If you didn't notice Eve doesn't allow name changes like many other MMO's... There's a reason for this.
I won't discourage from posting your idea but CCP will never do this long as Eve is successful. This is something that would happen if the game was failing and CCP wanted to squeeze a few extra coins out before it died. |
Naomi Asuna
Bomb's Liquidation and Sales
1
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Posted - 2014.02.12 04:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Even the ability to dissolve and reinvest SP in ones own pilot would be OP since it would allow you to train everything at max SP per hour negating the attributes and remap system.
The loss in SP upon extraction and the AUR cost should be enough to discourage people from making many alts farming every attribute combination.
You all seem to think that if this system were to be implemented, that it'd be flooded with decades worth of SP. People would have to carefully think about whether it's worth it for them to extract their SP to sell or not. Do they really not need the skill? Do they really want to change their role in eve? |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2027
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 04:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Naomi Asuna wrote:You all seem to think that if this system were to be implemented, that it'd be flooded with decades worth of SP. People would have to carefully think about whether it's worth it for them to extract their SP to sell or not. Do they really not need the skill? Do they really want to change their role in eve?
That's because it would be. Most of us have characters with quite a bit of SP that doesn't get used on a regular basis. I know I do. A 10% loss is nothing compared to being able to fly FOTM perfectly on a whim.
I'll say it again: in Eve, choices have meaning. One of those choices is what you train. If you remove that meaning, then the choice has no real consequence long term. Attaching a small (and really, what you're proposing is very small) penalty really doesn't change that basic dynamic: choices have less meaning and characters lose the history that makes them unique. If it were to go through there would be no real advantage to diversifying skill sets; just accumulate at whatever rate is optimal and remap it as needed. |
Icarus fall
What Shall We Call It
4
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Posted - 2014.02.12 10:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Basically I need to make an alt and then use plex to plex it and to get aurum. The alt then just trains skills I want on my main but cant bother to get. I'm out 2 plex a month more and I get my main training at 190% of skill points.
even if this skillchip cost more aurum than one plex gives. I could get cloaking 5 or train t2 sentry's and t2 heavies at the same time. I would easily throw a couple bil a month in plex to be able to do this. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
678
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 14:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Icarus fall wrote:Basically I need to make an alt and then use plex to plex it and to get aurum. The alt then just trains skills I want on my main but cant bother to get. I'm out 2 plex a month more and I get my main training at 190% of skill points.
even if this skillchip cost more aurum than one plex gives. I could get cloaking 5 or train t2 sentry's and t2 heavies at the same time. I would easily throw a couple bil a month in plex to be able to do this.
You have people with professional jobs such as doctors and lawyers that wouldn't think twice about spending a few thousand real dollars on a game they like. They would run 20 or more accounts doing this so they could have a max skill pilot in no time flat.
Like I said I could see CCP doing this years down the road if subscription numbers dropped to a point where the game was no longer practical and they just wanted to get a few more dollars before the collapse. Doing something like this now would cause subscription numbers to drop. The downside of a pay to win game is people who can't afford to sink lots of cash would get discouraged then quit.
I wonder how long it would take before the first person that had all skills to 5 came out... |
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Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
352
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Came to see irrational screaming and whining. Left both disappointed and not disappointed. |
ArmyOfMe
Origin. Black Legion.
279
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Posted - 2014.02.12 17:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
wts 170mil sp
QUOTE CCP Dolan and the EVE Online development team:-áThe battle was relatively even for some time with CFC and Russian forces holding moderate lead at first and only have a slight lead in Titan kills. Then came a turning point in the battle. Manfred Sideous, the initial Fleet Commander for PL/N3, handed over command to the CEO of Northern Coalition., Vince Draken |
stg slate
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2014.02.12 20:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Icarus fall wrote:Basically I need to make an alt and then use plex to plex it and to get aurum. The alt then just trains skills I want on my main but cant bother to get. I'm out 2 plex a month more and I get my main training at 190% of skill points.
even if this skillchip cost more aurum than one plex gives. I could get cloaking 5 or train t2 sentry's and t2 heavies at the same time. I would easily throw a couple bil a month in plex to be able to do this. You have people with professional jobs such as doctors and lawyers that wouldn't think twice about spending a few thousand real dollars on a game they like. They would run 20 or more accounts doing this so they could have a max skill pilot in no time flat. Like I said I could see CCP doing this years down the road if subscription numbers dropped to a point where the game was no longer practical and they just wanted to get a few more dollars before the collapse. Doing something like this now would cause subscription numbers to drop. The downside of a pay to win game is people who can't afford to sink lots of cash would get discouraged then quit. I wonder how long it would take before the first person that had all skills to 5 came out...
Not saying it is a good idea but those lawyers and doctors would just buy plex and use them to buy a skilled pilot from the character market anyways, so I can't really see much difference.
In fact every counterargument in this thread has been 'People will use this feature to pay ISK/real money to get a higher skilled character'.... which they can ALREADY DO LEGALLY through the character bazaar.... |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2033
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 20:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
stg slate wrote:In fact every counterargument in this thread has been 'People will use this feature to pay ISK/real money to get a higher skilled character'.... which they can ALREADY DO LEGALLY through the character bazaar....
That isn't what I said at all. I object to the choices of what we've trained in the past having little to no meaning in the present and/or future. I have no objection to someone going out and paying an inflated price for a character that fits a FOTM spec but I do object to that same person saying "whoops, guess the meta changed, time to pony up and respec all my skill points". The latter destroys the idea that choosing what you train has consequences; the former does not. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
679
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 21:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
stg slate wrote:IIshira wrote:Icarus fall wrote:Basically I need to make an alt and then use plex to plex it and to get aurum. The alt then just trains skills I want on my main but cant bother to get. I'm out 2 plex a month more and I get my main training at 190% of skill points.
even if this skillchip cost more aurum than one plex gives. I could get cloaking 5 or train t2 sentry's and t2 heavies at the same time. I would easily throw a couple bil a month in plex to be able to do this. You have people with professional jobs such as doctors and lawyers that wouldn't think twice about spending a few thousand real dollars on a game they like. They would run 20 or more accounts doing this so they could have a max skill pilot in no time flat. Like I said I could see CCP doing this years down the road if subscription numbers dropped to a point where the game was no longer practical and they just wanted to get a few more dollars before the collapse. Doing something like this now would cause subscription numbers to drop. The downside of a pay to win game is people who can't afford to sink lots of cash would get discouraged then quit. I wonder how long it would take before the first person that had all skills to 5 came out... Not saying it is a good idea but those lawyers and doctors would just buy plex and use them to buy a skilled pilot from the character market anyways, so I can't really see much difference. In fact every counterargument in this thread has been 'People will use this feature to pay ISK/real money to get a higher skilled character'.... which they can ALREADY DO LEGALLY through the character bazaar....
You can buy a trained pilot from the character bazaar that someone thought to train specific skills. You can't buy raw SP nor is it the same. If you find a good deal on a 500 mil SP pilot on the bazaar please link it. With your idea there will be many of them out there.
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Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1696
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Posted - 2014.02.12 21:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
Buying a character from the bazaar gives you a complete package, including standings, history, and name. This is the cost of the bazaar. If you want to cherish your main and get sp, then stick around a bit.
The answer is a very loud no. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
711
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 21:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Yes, you can buy pilots from the character bazaar. Those pilots have a certain value, based on what they paid to train, and how long they have subscribed and trained.
Based on that market, my character ALSO has a certain value. Based on supply and demand of other characters similar to me. Your suggestion would de-value my character in a matter of days. The 'supply' of SP would be endless/staggering/relentless. Long time accounts/characters would be de-valued substantially.
If you play this game a long time, why would you ever want to de-value your own character?
You can use ISK, Aurum, Beads, Shiny Trinkets, or whatever else you think is tricky, but in the end it's just a 'buy to win' sales pitch.
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Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi Unmentionables
2998
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Posted - 2014.02.13 01:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
No... Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
Naomi Asuna
Bomb's Liquidation and Sales
1
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Posted - 2014.02.13 06:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:Yes, you can buy pilots from the character bazaar. Those pilots have a certain value, based on what they paid to train, and how long they have subscribed and trained.
Based on that market, my character ALSO has a certain value. Based on supply and demand of other characters similar to me. Your suggestion would de-value my character in a matter of days. The 'supply' of SP would be endless/staggering/relentless. Long time accounts/characters would be de-valued substantially.
If you play this game a long time, why would you ever want to de-value your own character?
You can use ISK, Aurum, Beads, Shiny Trinkets, or whatever else you think is tricky, but in the end it's just a 'buy to win' sales pitch.
Your character wouldnt lose value because it has SP. Which you can convert into isk just as selling it on the character bazaar. This idea has been in effect in a game called Entropia Universe for years, and instead of decreasing player retention and increasing whining it has done the exact opposite. |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
970
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 09:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Hmm, so I would lose 17m in the penalty stealing the SP from my alt but it would be worth it to have 320m SP on my main. :)
Just make it so the SP is free to use and not locked down to specific skills.
I have a feeling I will unsub shortly after though as there are no more goals in game by then. Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
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Naomi Asuna
Bomb's Liquidation and Sales
1
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Posted - 2014.02.13 10:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Having it as un-allocated SP would defeat the purpose of attribute remapping as Ishira mentioned. Keeping it skill specific would still make attribute remaps important because higher tier skills have a lot of pre-reqs, so a brand new alt wouldnt be able to "farm" SP for those sought after skills. |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
970
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 14:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
How will it work if you only can get 90% of a specific skill as a token? Do you need a second 90% token to top up the last 10%? Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
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Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
179
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Posted - 2014.02.13 16:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
So I just train alts for the amount of SP I want and pay myself. Your system just broke down and my toon has all skills trained.
Like everyone else you will just have to do your time or buy a toon... Guess which of the two ways I respect..
If you want good name, perf skill set, no corp history and a nice look, do what the rest of us been doing for years and train it yourself... it works. Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
715
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 17:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
Naomi Asuna wrote:
Your character wouldnt lose value because it has SP. Which you can convert into isk just as selling it on the character bazaar. This idea has been in effect in a game called Entropia Universe for years, and instead of decreasing player retention and increasing whining it has done the exact opposite.
I looked up Entropia Universe. (interesting game)
They have a specific rule against multiple accounts, with stiff/harsh penalties of ban for life. That is a pretty important factor in the 'buy and sell SP vs value equation'. Don't you think? |
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
180
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 22:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
stg slate wrote:IIshira wrote:Icarus fall wrote:Basically I need to make an alt and then use plex to plex it and to get aurum. The alt then just trains skills I want on my main but cant bother to get. I'm out 2 plex a month more and I get my main training at 190% of skill points.
even if this skillchip cost more aurum than one plex gives. I could get cloaking 5 or train t2 sentry's and t2 heavies at the same time. I would easily throw a couple bil a month in plex to be able to do this. You have people with professional jobs such as doctors and lawyers that wouldn't think twice about spending a few thousand real dollars on a game they like. They would run 20 or more accounts doing this so they could have a max skill pilot in no time flat. Like I said I could see CCP doing this years down the road if subscription numbers dropped to a point where the game was no longer practical and they just wanted to get a few more dollars before the collapse. Doing something like this now would cause subscription numbers to drop. The downside of a pay to win game is people who can't afford to sink lots of cash would get discouraged then quit. I wonder how long it would take before the first person that had all skills to 5 came out... Not saying it is a good idea but those lawyers and doctors would just buy plex and use them to buy a skilled pilot from the character market anyways, so I can't really see much difference. In fact every counterargument in this thread has been 'People will use this feature to pay ISK/real money to get a higher skilled character'.... which they can ALREADY DO LEGALLY through the character bazaar....
Nope, I can buy some **** character some other player did not want with skills I dont want, a history I dont want and named FUckYourGraNDMA51258746263. That is very different from what you are proposing to make possible.
Something you created from naming to 100 million SP is special and you will never care about a bought char in the same way. It would never feel the same as well, it's someone else's baby. People who say different never trained a main for years..
Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first. |
Naomi Asuna
Bomb's Liquidation and Sales
1
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Posted - 2014.02.14 01:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:How will it work if you only can get 90% of a specific skill as a token? Do you need a second 90% token to top up the last 10%?
You could pre-train the 10%, or train from 90-100% after consuming the chip. It would still make a skill that takes 30+ days from lvl1-5 take only 3 days. Of course someone else would have to do the 30 days of training in the first place and decide they dont need it anymore and sell it off. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
362
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 02:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
Wouldn't it be great if you could spend some ISK to almost totally bypass the SP loss incurred by losing a T3 cruiser? I wonder which players would be best able to exploit utilize this new mechanic. Old players or new ones? |
Naomi Asuna
Bomb's Liquidation and Sales
1
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Posted - 2014.02.14 04:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
T3s are getting nerfed. Not a big deal. |
Naomi Asuna
Bomb's Liquidation and Sales
1
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Posted - 2014.02.15 00:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
Also you seem to imply that this feature is meant to help close the gap between new and old players. Not at all. It's meant to give people a chance to change their role in eve, or slightly speed up their progress. I don't think skill descisions should have the "consequences" as past posters have said. Choosing which corp to join, who to kill, etc should definitly have consequences, but not skills. Im sure ALL new and old players have trained skills to do an activity in EvE and then realize that is not their cup of tea once they get proficient at it. Those weeks/months of training are currently wasted, and that definitly doesnt help with player retention. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
365
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 15:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
Naomi Asuna wrote:T3s are getting nerfed. Not a big deal. Source?
Also, can I have your stuff? |
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