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Wizard
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Posted - 2006.04.09 19:53:00 -
[1]
Now im not making this post as a whine because i didnt get a kill just now etc etc ( just for the record ).
But, i am fairly accomplished at pvp and rarely shy away froma 1v1,2v1,3v1 or whatever but it seems a lot of people that have come to fight me recently in retaliation to me accidently poppinga few of there corps ships, have resorted to excessive ew.
All that happens in these cases is that i simply dont fight them, people who do this would argue that they are pvpers but since they are getting no pvp due to me not wanting to die without fighting back, where is there pvp? People seem to use excessivly EW or stabs to compensate for there poor ship fitting abilitys to sustain a decent fight which is fun for both sides.
Which brings me to my point........
We have ships that are meant to be EW platforms like blackbird/rook/griffin/scorp etc etc and these ships i have no prob with them being maxed with jammers etc. But other ships i think should get a stacking penalty to use of multis/race specific just like damage mods etc got recently.
Please give constructive comments, i rarely post on forums due to 80% of posters being offensive/rude...prove me wrong.
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ParMizaN
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Posted - 2006.04.09 19:56:00 -
[2]
Edited by: ParMizaN on 09/04/2006 19:56:33 I agree completely. When you go up against a fleet that is as large as yours, but that has EVERY ship fitted with at least 2 jammers, things start to get boring.
edit for brain fartage
Phenomena of ironies, cast the litany aside How intelligible, blessed be the forgetful |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.09 20:00:00 -
[3]
i miss the old ECM system myself. i LIKED jamming being a definite, and ECM ships were good at it, others weren't
as it is now, a single jammer is so useful its just dumb
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2006.04.09 20:03:00 -
[4]
Distributed EW has actually forced some welcome changes in traditional BS fleet battle tactics. It's no longer always about managing one or two targets at a time from over 100km away. It has opened another area where a team benefits from increased coordination.
In squad-based fights it also allows a dedicated EW ship to be neutralised, preventing the presence of a Blackbird or Celestis from being a w1n button.
There is nothing wrong with using EW to compensate for a shortcoming in another area, or using it as a force multiplier. That is a valid use.
And losing a midslot on a non-EW dedicated ship is not cost-free, as it removes a sensor booster, webbifier, etc.
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Wizard
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Posted - 2006.04.09 20:07:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Wizard on 09/04/2006 20:09:28 Im not naming names/corp of recent possible engagement but it is just getting silly.
A corp m8 scouted there rising gate camp being formed to stop my corps little hunting party.
We had a scorp and 2 geddons.
They had 2 nuetralising tracking disruptor/multi t2 dominixs with cap charges fitted, 1 rook( obviously jamming ), a t2 bc ( eos ) and bb waiting 1 system away ready to help the gank.
I/we are not nubs and im simply not going to send my m8s into certain death willingly, with just the 2 dommys and rook we was gonna give it a shot.
Concerning the 2 guys who replyed just before this, you are missing my point. I totally agree with you, its when it is used EXCESSIVELY thus "said" people arnt actually gonna get a fight/gank/fun.
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.04.09 20:07:00 -
[6]
Originally by: HippoKing i miss the old ECM system myself. i LIKED jamming being a definite, and ECM ships were good at it, others weren't as it is now, a single jammer is so useful its just dumb
If it works, use it.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
mirel yirrin
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Posted - 2006.04.09 20:08:00 -
[7]
I propose a radical change:
Make Ewar Modules only usable on Ewar specific ships, I.e Vigils, blackbirds and such.
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CEO of teh Jenny Spitfire Fanclub. Wanna Join? Convo meh IG. |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.04.09 20:12:00 -
[8]
By the way, more EW defences are being designed at the moment. Tux made a post about it somewhere.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.09 20:13:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Nyphur If it works, use it.
i do i just preferred the old system
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.09 20:13:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Nyphur By the way, more EW defences are being designed at the moment. Tux made a post about it somewhere.
tomB has a sticky in ships+mods
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Reatu Krentor
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Posted - 2006.04.09 20:17:00 -
[11]
a radical chance isn't needed imo the suggestions by TomB might actually do the trick(maybe combined with a role bonus for ew ships to reduce the cooldown) - phew! dodged the mods on this sig!
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MysticNZ
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Posted - 2006.04.09 20:23:00 -
[12]
I also agree. EW should only be on EW ships. EW ships should probably get buffed and each race maybe given one more EW ship.
I hate EW (I love using it) but it kills PVP IMO, even more than stabs do. -
You got pwnd by us too :P - Wrangler lol - Imaran |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.04.09 20:24:00 -
[13]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Nyphur By the way, more EW defences are being designed at the moment. Tux made a post about it somewhere.
tomB has a sticky in ships+mods
That's the one :).
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Eternal Fury
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Posted - 2006.04.09 20:48:00 -
[14]
I don't see the issue here.
If they are loading their ship up with EW, then they are sacrificeing those slots. If you are being jammed, then you need to find a counter. Maybe it's time to get some backup targeting systems. Or get in close and use those smartbombs. Or bring a friend..
In eve, all ship loadouts are tradeoffs of one form or another. if you use all EW, then you sacrifice something else to get that.
demand is greater then supply = high price.
supply is greater then demand = low price.
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jbob2000
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Posted - 2006.04.09 20:50:00 -
[15]
I hate EW, or at least the current EW system. Whats sad is that EW is all that people are bringing to fights, to the point where they have little to no firepower. RA does this all the time. They come in with 3 scorps and some inties. Really sad, tbh.
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Benglada
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Posted - 2006.04.09 20:52:00 -
[16]
my alts ferox vs another ferox and a typhoon, i was jammed for the whole three minutes it took them to kill me...I want the ole "6 ecm or bust" system...:( ---------------------------
Originally by: Wrangler Unfrtinately you dnot get to vote..
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Sir Juri
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Posted - 2006.04.09 21:02:00 -
[17]
cant you counter EW? I mean if you know your gonna fight ppl using it then...
Im a noob, bear with me :P |
crom ralphfao
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Posted - 2006.04.09 21:04:00 -
[18]
the more you ask for balance, the less options we will have for diverse gameplay.
flavors of the month are temporary until someone thinks to counter them.
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jbob2000
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Posted - 2006.04.09 21:08:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sir Juri cant you counter EW? I mean if you know your gonna fight ppl using it then...
That's the thing though, you can never REALLY counter it. Sure you can fit ECCM or backups, but then there is still that minute chance of you still getting jammed. And you also waste a few precious slots.
You could also try to jam them first, but even then there is no gurantee.
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Wizard
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Posted - 2006.04.09 21:12:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Eternal Fury I don't see the issue here.
If they are loading their ship up with EW, then they are sacrificeing those slots. If you are being jammed, then you need to find a counter. Maybe it's time to get some backup targeting systems. Or get in close and use those smartbombs. Or bring a friend..
In eve, all ship loadouts are tradeoffs of one form or another. if you use all EW, then you sacrifice something else to get that.
Smartbombs
Bring a freind
Not everyone in this game wants to Gank people, some of us actually want fairly even fights sometimes, this is what this post is about.
Comments about fitting to counter are not productive and have no place on this topic, i can fit and do fit to counter obviously sometimes. Read more in depth to nature of post plz.
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Sir Juri
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Posted - 2006.04.09 21:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Wizard
Originally by: Eternal Fury I don't see the issue here.
If they are loading their ship up with EW, then they are sacrificeing those slots. If you are being jammed, then you need to find a counter. Maybe it's time to get some backup targeting systems. Or get in close and use those smartbombs. Or bring a friend..
In eve, all ship loadouts are tradeoffs of one form or another. if you use all EW, then you sacrifice something else to get that.
Smartbombs
Bring a freind
Not everyone in this game wants to Gank people, some of us actually want fairly even fights sometimes, this is what this post is about.
Comments about fitting to counter are not productive and have no place on this topic, i can fit and do fit to counter obviously sometimes. Read more in depth to nature of post plz.
well if you can counter it then... but I mean life isnt fair especially in eve. You dont want ganks and wanna have 1on1 fights thats another thread, you want a one on one dueling system?
I seen ppl whining about EW and stabbs but I also seen the same ppl using it, some on this thread, yes. But they will change the system it seems I dont know if thats good or bad but I think everyone should have the right to fit EW, and EW is fair I think its stupid to say EW has no place in or its not PVP. Removing EW will most likely make the game suck.
Im a noob, bear with me :P |
Kyoko Sakoda
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Posted - 2006.04.09 21:25:00 -
[22]
They just need to make non-EW ships suck at it more. I liked the cooldown timer idea.
Learn what it means to be Caldari - www.omertasyndicate.com |
Sir Juri
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Posted - 2006.04.09 21:28:00 -
[23]
why not make jamming worse overall then just apply bonuses to EW ships making them great at it? then still let all ships use it etc...
Im a noob, bear with me :P |
Zarks
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Posted - 2006.04.09 21:39:00 -
[24]
"People seem to use excessivly EW or stabs to compensate for there poor ship fitting abilitys to sustain a decent fight which is fun for both sides."
So if I fit ew instead of the standard tank build on a raven I¦m compensating for my lack of knowledge to fit ships? People need to start thinking outside of the little box and do other things with their ships. How fun would it be to have apocs that ONLY use 2 large reps and cap rechargers, or Ravens that ONLY use shield hardeners/amp booster and pdu:s?
___________________________________________________ Looking for Chelm/Draclira mega beam lasers. Also looking for cruise launcher II BPO, isk available. |
Wizard
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Posted - 2006.04.09 21:50:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Sir Juri
Originally by: Wizard
Originally by: Eternal Fury I don't see the issue here.
If they are loading their ship up with EW, then they are sacrificeing those slots. If you are being jammed, then you need to find a counter. Maybe it's time to get some backup targeting systems. Or get in close and use those smartbombs. Or bring a friend..
In eve, all ship loadouts are tradeoffs of one form or another. if you use all EW, then you sacrifice something else to get that.
Smartbombs
Bring a freind
Not everyone in this game wants to Gank people, some of us actually want fairly even fights sometimes, this is what this post is about.
Comments about fitting to counter are not productive and have no place on this topic, i can fit and do fit to counter obviously sometimes. Read more in depth to nature of post plz.
well if you can counter it then... but I mean life isnt fair especially in eve. You dont want ganks and wanna have 1on1 fights thats another thread, you want a one on one dueling system?
I seen ppl whining about EW and stabbs but I also seen the same ppl using it, some on this thread, yes. But they will change the system it seems I dont know if thats good or bad but I think everyone should have the right to fit EW, and EW is fair I think its stupid to say EW has no place in or its not PVP. Removing EW will most likely make the game suck.
No
Thkyou for trying to turn thread into discussion about other stuff.
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Wizard
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Posted - 2006.04.09 21:54:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Zarks "People seem to use excessivly EW or stabs to compensate for there poor ship fitting abilitys to sustain a decent fight which is fun for both sides."
So if I fit ew instead of the standard tank build on a raven I¦m compensating for my lack of knowledge to fit ships? People need to start thinking outside of the little box and do other things with their ships. How fun would it be to have apocs that ONLY use 2 large reps and cap rechargers, or Ravens that ONLY use shield hardeners/amp booster and pdu:s?
Thks for missing point of thread.
I have another example.
Just had a recent little excursion, 3 of us in frigs, we wanna fight and dont mind loosing the ships, we engage a ferox and kill it, an arbotrator and intie and another ferox come to kill us. So we leave system only to encounter there m8s forming other side, now baring in mind we are in frigs, they atack us using a curse,arbitrator and malediction. Ownage im sure youll agree but.......they jamm me just to make sure.
Again what was fun and aleviated the nights (whatever they were doing previously ) was turned from pvp to gankage, nice
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Zysco
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Posted - 2006.04.09 23:20:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Zysco on 09/04/2006 23:23:53
Originally by: Zarks "People seem to use excessivly EW or stabs to compensate for there poor ship fitting abilitys to sustain a decent fight which is fun for both sides."
So if I fit ew instead of the standard tank build on a raven I¦m compensating for my lack of knowledge to fit ships? People need to start thinking outside of the little box and do other things with their ships. How fun would it be to have apocs that ONLY use 2 large reps and cap rechargers, or Ravens that ONLY use shield hardeners/amp booster and pdu:s?
You're both right. The problem is ECM is a "win" module at the moment, much like stabs. If you have a free midslot on a BS, and have the cpu, 95% of the time the best possible mod to fit is ECM. The only times when it wouldnt be is if you need a webber or 20km or heavy cap booster. While it is good in the aspect that there are many more ships and fittings are not as "cookie cutter" anymore (like you dont know if a raven is tanked or using ECM, in zarks' example), there is a problem when geddons are fitting an ECM.
Solution: Each side gets a dedicated ECMer for their race specific ECM. These ships get huge ECM bonuses, making them even BETTER with ECM than they are now. However, ECM gets a massive nerf. Other ships like lets say a domi can still fit ECM, and have the possiblily of jamming, but even with a racial jammer and max skills it should be a very low chance to jam.
Edit: I'm also gonna have to say that the release of t2 ammo is a major part of the ridiculous ECM whoring going on, at least in fleet fights. Before t2 ammo, A ship, lets say a megathron, would need tracking comps in order to hit far enough out with decent damage ammo. But with spike L, the mega now hits very far out with decent damage, and doesnt need the tracking comps anymore. Oh look 2 free mids... lets put ECM in them!.
Originally by: Ginger Magician
I have the fingerspeed of a teenager the brains of a rocket scientist and the tactical nous of a 5 star general. Why do u think I'm so freaking good?
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Alt Spy
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Posted - 2006.04.09 23:38:00 -
[28]
gl using ew at 200km in a mega
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The TX
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Posted - 2006.04.09 23:45:00 -
[29]
Originally by: ParMizaN edit for brain fartage
loving the line there. ----------------- LONDON PLAYER MEET Media Thread Mining |
Trepkos
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Posted - 2006.04.09 23:57:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Trepkos on 09/04/2006 23:59:26 Edited by: Trepkos on 09/04/2006 23:57:11
Originally by: Zysco Edited by: Zysco on 09/04/2006 23:23:53
Originally by: Zarks "People seem to use excessivly EW or stabs to compensate for there poor ship fitting abilitys to sustain a decent fight which is fun for both sides."
So if I fit ew instead of the standard tank build on a raven I¦m compensating for my lack of knowledge to fit ships? People need to start thinking outside of the little box and do other things with their ships. How fun would it be to have apocs that ONLY use 2 large reps and cap rechargers, or Ravens that ONLY use shield hardeners/amp booster and pdu:s?
While it is good in the aspect that there are many more ships and fittings are not as "cookie cutter" anymore (like you dont know if a raven is tanked or using ECM, in zarks' example), there is a problem when geddons are fitting an ECM.
I actually think that fitting a raven with ECM and no tank is about as cookie cutter as it gets. Everyone is doing it, well, everyone who actually fights in their raven. So that would make it definately NOT thinking outside of the box.
ECM, at the moment, is pretty much evening out the actual skill in a fight. I mean, who cares if your opponent is actually better than you, bring ECM and you still have a fair chance to defeat him/them, and that is one of the main reasons people use it.
EDIT : And I know people who won't even begin to think about engaging without their ECM support, because if they did, they would probably lose horribly. --------
Angel Deep Corporation
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