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l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
878
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Posted - 2014.02.23 11:00:00 -
[61] - Quote
I like links a lot.
Why don't you? German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
364
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Posted - 2014.02.23 11:26:00 -
[62] - Quote
Whim Aqayn wrote:I want the game to be pay 2 win.
If that's what you want, that's unfortunate. I don't think too many other people would share the same view. Aside from that, better to have mature discussion than change text to something that was never written.
We all pay to play the game. If someone pays in order to build a links pilot, good luck to them. It's not what I am prepared to do, but their style of play shouldn't be nerfed because I don't have. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Smook
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
11
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Posted - 2014.02.23 11:38:00 -
[63] - Quote
So, I disagree that links should be on-grid.
This is simply because I think the horses were let out of the barn long ago and it was enough of a nerf to prohibit links in a POS.
I hope that CCP is making a ton of money from people paying for link-alts because a majority of that revenue would evaporate if they put links on-grid.
Most of us who have link alts, and I am one, spent a crap ton of time training them for the skills that they have. I don't think it's necessary to compare the exact percent gains that links give vs. implants, etc. The fact is that there are multiple mechanisms by which you can enhance the skills of a character or fleet. Eve is a game that REQUIRES cooperation between multiple persons for success. That's just the way it is. If your two man corp doesn't have the assets to take on larger gangs, join a larger alliance or corp. It's that simple. Unless you are running invention jobs in high-sec, you probably won't do well without numbers.
If I am sitting alone in a system with my main and my alt running links and a 10 man fleet enters system, I am not engaging that... why would I? (ok, so in reality I tend to Leroy a lot of crap, but you get the point) So does that mean that 10 man fleets should be prohibited? You could have the best HG sets, links, officer modules, etc., in your ship and you still can't take out overwhelming numbers. What's the reaction when someone in your fleet notices a Tournament ship on scan? Do you say, "well... let's try to find one ship that is most evenly matched and send it to the Tourney ship for an honorable fight?" Hell no you don't! You gang **** that damn ship as fast and as hard as you can and hope that your buddies two systems away don't get to ***** in on the kill mail. So should CCP do away with Tourney ships? Should they disband fleets of more than three people?
So I guess my standpoint is all or nothing with the links. Either keep it the way it is or remove them from the game. If they are nerfed to require on-grid application, that will equate for most to removing them from the game. It is pretty rare that I see FW fleets of command ships roaming around and I don't think most FW guys who are VERY accustomed to losing ships will sink the necessary ISK into hauling command ships around in their fleets given the likely potential for loss.
It is human nature to point to whatever we can to cleanse our failures.
"Those wankers had ECM" "That scumbag decloaked an Astero" "There goes Gallente again... bringing cruisers to a frig fight"
Some of us are really good at certain aspects of the game and that is what we like to do. Nobody wants to log-on to FW and spend three hours losing every ship in their hangar and then trying to slide a PLEX purchase past their wife in the bank account... but **** happens.
I have lost many ships while links were active and many more when I had no links but my opponents had links running. Who cares? The golden rule is "don't un-dock what you aren't prepared to lose" in FW. If you guys don't like it out there... spin your ships or go mining in high-sec. FW is a bloody place and you will loose... again and again and again. But when you win.... that **** is sweet. Until damn Burtakus gives you crap in local and takes away your happy time. Then you need to create a forum post about the issue.
:)
Love you guys!
PS: Sean Parisi for CSM!
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
324
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Posted - 2014.02.23 20:44:00 -
[64] - Quote
Smook wrote: "GOOD STUFF"
PS: Sean Parisi for CSM!
I agree totally on the link situation there smooky....
Also if we vote for sean do we get a free vanilla swirl wig?
GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
509
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Posted - 2014.02.23 23:42:00 -
[65] - Quote
We have found the best solution to links is to blap the persons link alt with nagas. The tactic has often been used against us as well when we have had a night of heavy drinking.
If voted for CSM king I will ensure all faction warfare players recieve vanilla swirls.
Who rule forun town? |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
948
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Posted - 2014.02.24 00:52:00 -
[66] - Quote
Sean Parisi wrote: Who rule forun town?
Dunno but he can spell much better than you.
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Smook
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
14
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Posted - 2014.02.24 04:46:00 -
[67] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Sean Parisi wrote: Who rule forun town?
Dunno but he can spell much better than you.
LOLOL!! Now THAT was funny. It must be Sean's British accent in the spelling there :) |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3568
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Posted - 2014.02.24 17:00:00 -
[68] - Quote
@ Smook: Let me paraphrase your post:
1.) My links are in a little danger, whereas they were in no danger before. That's hard when I'm duel boxing, so links are fine.
2.) I spent lots of time training for my link alt that also creates revenue for CCP. That makes it ok for links to be overpowered compared to skill boosts, implants, etc.
3.) The blob always wins, so links are fine.
4.) You can die, even when you have links, so links are fine.
You do nothing to address the imbalances they cause. You do nothing to address the risk/effort vs reward of links. You mention the efforts required in training up links, and somehow think that the effort of paying for a second account entitles you to the massive boosts provided by links. In other words, you ignore the underlying imbalances of links because you want to continue using them.
At this moment, I know little about Sean Parisi, but when your post shows such a poor grasp of game balance (P2W seems to be your motto), you negatively color his campaign.
Smook wrote:It is human nature to point to whatever we can to cleanse our failures.
"Those wankers had ECM" "That scumbag decloaked an Astero" "There goes Gallente again... bringing cruisers to a frig fight"
ECM, +1 ship, logistics, etc, can all be dealt with, as the mechanics you're discussing require the extra ship to be ON GRID. This makes it engageable, counterable, and creates interesting game play. Links offer little to no means to counter them!
Smook wrote: So I guess my standpoint is all or nothing with the links. Either keep it the way it is or remove them from the game. If they are nerfed to require on-grid application, that will equate for most to removing them from the game. It is pretty rare that I see FW fleets of command ships roaming around and I don't think most FW guys who are VERY accustomed to losing ships will sink the necessary ISK into hauling command ships around in their fleets given the likely potential for loss.
1.) FW fighting often centers around PLEX's, of which most don't allow BC's, T3's, and CS's to enter. Forcing links to be on grid pretty much removes them from most FW battle arenas.
2.) I used to recommend players experimenting in PvP take a look into FW. I then spent 6 months fighting in the Amarr-Minnie FW zone, and now advise new players to stay as far away from FW as possible. FW is plagued with characters utilizing links to boost their ship's combat capabilities to asinine levels. Frankly, a new player can't compete in that environment without massive handholding. You, and your ilk, are fully responsible for this, as when one side has links, the other side must bring links (or blob) to compete. This destroys much of the Rochambeau between ships, and is a general degradation of game play. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1531
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Posted - 2014.02.24 17:27:00 -
[69] - Quote
Gizznitt touched upon one point that I wanted to make in his post. Arguing that link accounts bring in revenue for CCP is a strawman argument. For every 'leet' player utilizing links there could be:
Three new players who quit the game after dying in a bewildering fashion. One bitter vet who decides it's P2W and wants no part of it quitting also. Another bitter vet who dislikes the meta and simply doesn't log in as much.
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Samurai Pizza Cats
827
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Posted - 2014.02.24 18:37:00 -
[70] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Gizznitt touched upon one point that I wanted to make in his post. Arguing that link accounts bring in revenue for CCP is a strawman argument. For every 'leet' player utilizing links there could be:
Three new players who quit the game after dying in a bewildering fashion. One bitter vet who decides it's P2W and wants no part of it quitting also. Another bitter vet who dislikes the meta and simply doesn't log in as much.
Non of your presumptions would make 'link-accounts=revenue' a strawman argument. |
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Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
236
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Posted - 2014.02.24 18:41:00 -
[71] - Quote
Here is how you "fix" the link problem. If any character on a killmail received bonuses from an active link module, then the character/ship providing those links shows up on the killmail as well (if no damage was done, then module is one of the link modules and 0 damage). Problem solved... QCATS is recruiting:-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3896299 |
Colt Blackhawk
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
268
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Posted - 2014.02.24 19:02:00 -
[72] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:Here is how you "fix" the link problem. If any character on a killmail received bonuses from an active link module, then the character/ship providing those links shows up on the killmail as well (if no damage was done, then module is one of the link modules and 0 damage). Problem solved...
THIS.
+1 [09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1531
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Posted - 2014.02.24 19:04:00 -
[73] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Non of your presumptions would make 'link-accounts=revenue' a strawman argument.
My point as you very well realize is that Links may cost CCP business. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3571
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Posted - 2014.02.24 19:17:00 -
[74] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:Here is how you "fix" the link problem. If any character on a killmail received bonuses from an active link module, then the character/ship providing those links shows up on the killmail as well (if no damage was done, then module is one of the link modules and 0 damage). Problem solved...
This doesn't "Fix" the link problem.
I fully support putting logi pilots and/or link pilots within the battle report, but nothing gets fixed by this.
Why? Because the primary issue with links is their potency is imbalanced compared to the risk/effort vs reward in utilizing them. To "Fix" the problem, the power imbalance they create must be addressed!
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
390
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Posted - 2014.02.24 19:46:00 -
[75] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:This doesn't "Fix" the link problem.
There isn't universal agreement that there is a links problem.
I see it just as much as an "I don't have" or "I don't want to play that way" problem.
Like many perceived issues with the game, it's really a player limitation rather than a mechanics issue as far as I'm concerned. However clearly not everyone feels the same as I do and if CCP do ever change the links boosting mechanics, hopefully they do it in a way that provides something to benefit the existing links pilots as much as it will benefit those without links.
In any case, I say they are fine as they are and no change is necessary (and I don't use links except when I'm in an Alliance fleet, so personal interest is not the thing here). eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Castnicke Rinah
Black Fox Marauders
5
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Posted - 2014.02.24 19:48:00 -
[76] - Quote
At least it means we can laugh at them, knowing that without links they would have lost.
It's what I tell myself every time I die. |
Lugalzagezi666
216
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Posted - 2014.02.24 20:00:00 -
[77] - Quote
Fleet boosting needs to become actual role in pvp depending on piloting skills of the player and not just job for alt that sits in safespot 20au away from fight and despite that he is able to increase efficiency of the fleet by massive amounts.
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3571
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Posted - 2014.02.24 20:21:00 -
[78] - Quote
Here's a viable middle ground solution that actually "fixes" the problem.
Create Either one of these:
Option 1: A new deployable that hinders all fleet bonuses to any ship on-grid with the deployable.
Option 2: A new deployable that simply hinders all fleet bonuses within a system.
I created an F&I thread to discuss and balance these devices. Essentially, either one of these creates a counter to fleet boosts that helps balance the playing field.
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Christine Peeveepeeski
Rodents of Unusual Size
513
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Posted - 2014.02.24 20:46:00 -
[79] - Quote
*edit actually i take my opinion back. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT NOPESIREE |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
952
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Posted - 2014.02.24 21:11:00 -
[80] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Here's a viable middle ground solution that actually "fixes" the problem. Create Either one of these: Option 1: A new deployable that hinders all fleet bonuses to any ship on-grid with the deployable. Option 2: A new deployable that simply hinders all fleet bonuses within a system. I created an F&I thread to discuss and balance these devices. Essentially, either one of these creates a counter to fleet boosts that helps balance the playing field.
What a damn good idea.
Keeps everyone happy.
WIN WIN. If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
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Castnicke Rinah
Black Fox Marauders
6
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Posted - 2014.02.24 21:47:00 -
[81] - Quote
Because more deployables is exactly what Eve needs. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
952
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 21:58:00 -
[82] - Quote
Castnicke Rinah wrote:Because more USEFUL deployables is exactly what Eve needs.
Fixed it for you.
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Hrett
Justified Chaos
341
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 21:59:00 -
[83] - Quote
Castnicke Rinah wrote:Because more deployables is exactly what Eve needs.
If it will kill OGB, it does.
Gizznit - I like your idea. I think I posted something similar in the "what deployables would you like to see?" thread.
When was the last time anyone saw a T1 BC with links on it? I am sure it happens, but its exceedingly rare. Make boosts be on grid, and these will be used a lot more. I'm probably typing on an iPad, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
391
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:06:00 -
[84] - Quote
Since the suggestion is essentially for an ECM deplorable, it needs an ECCM equivalent too. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3572
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Posted - 2014.02.24 22:13:00 -
[85] - Quote
Hrett wrote:Castnicke Rinah wrote:Because more deployables is exactly what Eve needs. If it will kill OGB, it does. Gizznit - I like your idea. I think I posted something similar in the "what deployables would you like to see?" thread. When was the last time anyone saw a T1 BC with links on it? I am sure it happens, but its exceedingly rare. Make boosts be on grid, and these will be used a lot more.
Thank you for your support.
I'm a fan of the put links on grid mantra. I think that will be a healthier option overall.
CCP has previously stated that this is difficult to enact because of how fleet mechanics work, and I think a deployable to inhibit gang links might be a more implementable solution that provides a nice middle ground for countering links.
I too decided I should post the idea to the "Deployables Ideas Thread", and right after I did I saw the idea had been previously posted in the thread multiple times.
While I did do a forum search before creating the my F&I thread, I didn't see previous incarnations of the idea because I was using the "wrong" keywords. Alas, synonyms.
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2070
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Posted - 2014.02.24 23:25:00 -
[86] - Quote
Yeah, where's the "Jam Links" midslot module that I can put on my ship to jam out fleet boosters? Where's the counter to fleet boosters? Aren't there supposed to be counters in this game other than "bring more of the same!" ?
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IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
953
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Posted - 2014.02.25 00:03:00 -
[87] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Yeah, where's the "Jam Links" midslot module that I can put on my ship to jam out fleet boosters? Where's the counter to fleet boosters? Aren't there supposed to be counters in this game other than "bring more of the same!" ?
The counter is a high slot module and has been around for ages.
There are several variants. Arty Missiles Lasers Blasters
All are effective counters to OGB ships. If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Samurai Pizza Cats
827
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Posted - 2014.02.25 00:12:00 -
[88] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Yeah, where's the "Jam Links" midslot module that I can put on my ship to jam out fleet boosters? Where's the counter to fleet boosters? Aren't there supposed to be counters in this game other than "bring more of the same!" ?
The counter is a high slot module and has been around for ages. There are several variants. Arty Missiles Lasers Blasters All are effective counters to OGB ships.
You forgot probes.
More ships in space, on grid or off grid, is a good thing.
Complaining that boosts spoil 1v1's is a pathetic notion in an MMO. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3575
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Posted - 2014.02.25 00:16:00 -
[89] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Complaining that boosts spoil 1v1's is a pathetic notion in an MMO.
Soloing with links is an oxymoron!
The biggest difference between soloing with links and soloing with logistics, is that logistic ships gain aggro timers and can be directly countered.
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Samurai Pizza Cats
827
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Posted - 2014.02.25 00:36:00 -
[90] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Complaining that boosts spoil 1v1's is a pathetic notion in an MMO. Soloing with links is an oxymoron! The biggest difference between soloing with links and soloing with logistics, is that logistic ships gain aggro timers and can be directly countered.
The same person you use to damp or jam logi could be probing out the hostile booster. Its not complicated. OGB usually have less than 10k ehp. Thats potentially 1sk'able.
Also, i was pointing out that 1v1 in an MMO was a pathetic notion. |
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