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Ky Vatta
Majority 12
11
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Posted - 2014.02.15 01:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
..should not apply to pods after ship destruction
This should apply specifically to non-combat ships
I had a bad experience of this (on an alt)
(this happened to a freighter)
Logging out near a gate in Hisec, it appears the freighter was aggressed by new player frigate (probably someone`s alt) 4 secs after logout
Supposedly within the game mechanics, the victim got a freeze on gating/logging out (in itself unfair, as this is hardly fair combat)
Being logged out, the freighter stayed there, an obvious target; 11 mins later it was attacked by another noobship, to extend the aggression timer, then 11 mins later was attacked and destroyed by a gank-fleet
CCP confirmed that the pod warped away (no idea where), but with a further 15 min aggression timer, but was scanned down and destroyed 12 mins later
This addition of aggression timer onto another ship (the pod), plus it being a non-combat ship, should not be applied
The game mechanics are applying the aggression timers on the victim, rather than on the aggressor, made worse by the fact the victim is a non-combat ship
CCP are not very discriminating on this; they seem to be siding with the aggressor, instead of the victim
This needs changing, especially as non-combat ships cannot fight back
PvP stands for Person v Person, not Person victimising Prey
The aggression timer should be put per ship, not per character
Nevermind that the pod should have been logged out, as the player was logged out long ago...
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Daoden
The Scope Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2014.02.15 04:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
The whole purpose of this is so that when someone is engaged, whether by a gank squad or what not, they cant just hit log off and be able to hide. The fact that this goes to people attacked illegally is just a product of this. As for the freighter he can still use gates and stations, he just wont disappear when he logs off for 15 minutes from the last time he was engaged. There really is no problem with this system to any major degree especially in high sec where you can dock. Not to be mean but this just seems like another "my freighter got ganked so i think the game is broken" post which there are plenty of. Lastly if you get caught in a pod in high sec... then you kind of deserve it honestly. |
Kyrik Vaster
House of Carrikk
2
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Posted - 2014.02.15 05:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Op is 100% correct.
Non combat ships and non aggressing persons should not be subject to any log off count down timer. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
56
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Posted - 2014.02.15 05:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Don't log out aggressed? If he was logging out using the safe method, he would have seen the attack and at least been in a position to try to warp off. He might still have lost the freighter, but he would have been able to warp someone safer.
The mechanic is fine as it is. So... why did he log off at the gate and not dock or warp to a celestial/safe and try to log off? Sounds like a poor error in judgement that sadly resulted in his loss but would otherwise have been avoidable.
If it was due to a disconnect... well... no way to prove if the disco was intentional or un-intentional.
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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
56
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Posted - 2014.02.15 05:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kyrik Vaster wrote:Op is 100% correct.
Non combat ships and non aggressing persons should not be subject to any log off count down timer.
I see my war target enter a system in a nice fat freighter. The war target realizes he is about to be taken to task and tries to log off.
In your situation: he gets away. In mine: justice is served.
Just because you (or I) are in an industrial and decide to use poor judgement and log off at a gate does not mean others should be denied their opportunities. And I speak as someone who occasionally plays from locations with poor reception and thus suffer natural disconnects. But that is not what the OP is talking about.... at least it was omitted: his bud logged out at the gate... poor judgement and he suffered the consequence. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Against ALL Authorities
223
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Posted - 2014.02.15 05:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think if the pod was aggressed then it should stay in space. However if the ship was destroyed and the pod warped off and still had an aggro timer, I would understand wanting to kill the timer on that. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16718
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Posted - 2014.02.15 05:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
These timers were introduced with the sole purpose of doing what they do. They are designed to work as they do and are quite a recent change to flag timers.
Also PvP is player versus player, it matters not what ship the other player flies. PvP is about competition and removing assets from anyone is a part of that PvP aspect. Eve is PvP centric. Always has been, always will be.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16720
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Posted - 2014.02.15 05:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rowells wrote:I think if the pod was aggressed then it should stay in space. However if the ship was destroyed and the pod warped off and still had an aggro timer, I would understand wanting to kill the timer on that. Yea, I can agree on this. But is that what happened here?
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2467
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Posted - 2014.02.15 17:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
What's a non combat ship? I didn't know we had any of those. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Against ALL Authorities
224
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Posted - 2014.02.15 22:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Rowells wrote:I think if the pod was aggressed then it should stay in space. However if the ship was destroyed and the pod warped off and still had an aggro timer, I would understand wanting to kill the timer on that. Yea, I can agree on this. But is that what happened here? If i'm reading this correctly:
He was in freighter, logged off and a noobship aggressed him. His freighter stayed in space as noobships kept his timer running. Eventually they got a gang together and blew up his freighter. His pod ejected and e-warped. At this point his pod inherited the aggro timer from the freighter kill, which means nobody actually aggressed his pod. They scanned down pod and killed it.
I think he's asking that his pod does not inherit the aggro timer since his original ship was already destroyed. |
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Ky Vatta
Majority 12
13
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Posted - 2014.02.15 23:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Mag's wrote:Rowells wrote:I think if the pod was aggressed then it should stay in space. However if the ship was destroyed and the pod warped off and still had an aggro timer, I would understand wanting to kill the timer on that. Yea, I can agree on this. But is that what happened here? If i'm reading this correctly: He was in freighter, logged off and a noobship aggressed him. His freighter stayed in space as noobships kept his timer running. Eventually they got a gang together and blew up his freighter. His pod ejected and e-warped. At this point his pod inherited the aggro timer from the freighter kill, which means nobody actually aggressed his pod. They scanned down pod and killed it. I think he's asking that his pod does not inherit the aggro timer since his original ship was already destroyed.
You got it exactly right (though my freighter was aggressed twice, the destruction by fleet was a 3rd aggression)
My point is, why does the victim get the aggression timer??
I believe it was originally put in place to stop the aggressor logging out, after having attacked someone (and the game mechanic became flawed)
I have yet to see how you can aggress anyone else in a freighter or pod... |
Ellendras Silver
My second corp
116
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Posted - 2014.02.16 00:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kyrik Vaster wrote:Op is 100% correct.
Non combat ships and non aggressing persons should not be subject to any log off count down timer.
i agree on this with the exception of aggression in low sec, null sec or WH space. aggressed is aggressed and you cant log of to escape that is correct game play.
if he was a wartarget the aggression timer is correct as he was aggressed with an known enemy and therefor deserves to loose his/her ship that its a freighter and cant defend himself is tough luck.
if it was an alt that aggresses to keep the freighter`s timer going (twice) to get a squad to gank it i think the OP has a valid point. specialy the pod after that. |
Ellendras Silver
My second corp
116
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Posted - 2014.02.16 00:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ky Vatta wrote:Rowells wrote:Mag's wrote:Rowells wrote:I think if the pod was aggressed then it should stay in space. However if the ship was destroyed and the pod warped off and still had an aggro timer, I would understand wanting to kill the timer on that. Yea, I can agree on this. But is that what happened here? If i'm reading this correctly: He was in freighter, logged off and a noobship aggressed him. His freighter stayed in space as noobships kept his timer running. Eventually they got a gang together and blew up his freighter. His pod ejected and e-warped. At this point his pod inherited the aggro timer from the freighter kill, which means nobody actually aggressed his pod. They scanned down pod and killed it. I think he's asking that his pod does not inherit the aggro timer since his original ship was already destroyed. You got it exactly right (though my freighter was aggressed twice, the destruction by fleet was a 3rd aggression) My point is, why does the victim get the aggression timer?? I believe it was originally put in place to stop the aggressor logging out, after having attacked someone (and the game mechanic became flawed) I have yet to see how you can aggress anyone else in a freighter or pod...
officially this was done to prevent people from logging off if they could not win the fight (used to happen a lot in capital fights)
aggression timer does not mean you aggressed someone it means you are in a combat situation and therefor have 15 min timer. it doesnt matter if you aggressed a player or NPC or a player or NPC aggressed you. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2033
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Posted - 2014.02.16 00:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ky Vatta wrote:You got it exactly right (though my freighter was aggressed twice, the destruction by fleet was a 3rd aggression) My point is, why does the victim get the aggression timer?? I believe it was originally put in place to stop the aggressor logging out, after having attacked someone (and the game mechanic became flawed) I have yet to see how you can aggress anyone else in a freighter or pod...
No you have that backwards. It was actually put in place to keep exactly this sort of thing from happening. The most common usage of log off mechanics was large ships (like caps and supercaps) who would log out when they were losing. Then basically the aggressors would not have enough DPS to kill it before it disappeared from space.
First, why did you log at a gate? Second If you had used safe logoff (added at the same time to counteract this aggression timer so you could be sure you left the game).
If you had used safe logoff the way it is designed you could have seen the noobship aggress you, go dock at a station and log off there.
TLDR-Working as intended.
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Ky Vatta
Majority 12
13
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Posted - 2014.02.16 01:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
Idiot, learn to read
It was aggressed AFTER I was logged out
Now tell me how I would get out of that!!
You say it`s as the game mechanic is intended, right I`ll use some kind of sixth sense to login again to save my ship....
While we are at it, logging out is supposed to warp the ship to a random spot, then logout (apparently this did not happen, this warp, to my freighter, but seemed to work for my pod)
I was not losing, as I had not been aggressed before logout
I would not normally log out at a gate, but I was having bad lag problems, so restarted my PC to clear my RAM (and then did not login again for quite a while)
If I had crashed out of the game, those same game mechanics would have occurred also; being aggressed after I no longer had Eve on my computer screen |
Alundil
Sky Fighters
401
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Posted - 2014.02.16 01:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Safe log off takes 30 seconds and removes your ship from space at that point. Meaning there is no time at all when you are not in control and awareness of your ship. If you simply exited the client and someone saw that the pilot who was in the freighter was then offline..... then they took an opportunity that you presented to them.
Had you chosen the safe log off method they would not have had that opportunity.
Tldr Working as intended
Clone mechanics enchancements Deep Space Probe Revival |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
4886
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Posted - 2014.02.16 02:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
This is in an intended mechanic.
There used to be a time where industrials, freighters, and even whole gangs of combat ships would log out if faced with a situation that had poor odds (even before any actual combat had begun) and hopefully survive the 1 minute they would linger in space after logging off (because no timers would apply if you logged off before being aggressed).
So CCP implemented the mechanics the way they are now under the general idea of; logging out should not be an option to escape from immediate danger. You already have ways to log out safety (docking, going to a POS, finding a safespot, etc). Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2033
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Posted - 2014.02.16 05:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ky Vatta wrote:Idiot, learn to read
Idiot, right back at you.
As people are trying to tell you, safe logout was implemented at the EXACT same time as the PVP aggression mechanics SPECIFICALLY to address players concerns about this type of situation.
If you chose not to use it then it is your loss (literally).
Even if you were lagging, you could have likely lasted 30 seconds to safe log off.
And yes people crash out. Most will immeditaly get back in to ensure their ship is safe (especially if it is a risky type of situation, such as a slow aligning freighter, or hostile space). |
Ellendras Silver
My second corp
116
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Posted - 2014.02.16 09:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ky Vatta wrote: 1. Idiot, learn to read
2. It was aggressed AFTER I was logged out
3. Now tell me how I would get out of that!!
4. You say it`s as the game mechanic is intended, right I`ll use some kind of sixth sense to login again to save my ship....
5. While we are at it, logging out is supposed to warp the ship to a random spot, then logout (apparently this did not happen, this warp, to my freighter, but seemed to work for my pod)
6. I was not losing, as I had not been aggressed before logout
7. I would not normally log out at a gate, but I was having bad lag problems, so restarted my PC to clear my RAM (and then did not login again for quite a while)
8. If I had crashed out of the game, those same game mechanics would have occurred also; being aggressed after I no longer had Eve on my computer screen
1. is this going to help your case? 2. it is well known that a ship stays in space after normal log off for 30 sec or so, thats where the safe log off is for. 3. see point 2 4. well he is not lying it is a game mechanic as intended, i am not sure if a 6th sense would fall under cheating, have to speak to CCP about that one 5. NO! a disconnect makes you warp ro a random spot to wait out the timer. 6. well you lost that is sure now 7. i find this very suspicious and think that you are not honest, i think that you may have suspected something or someone and logged off failing at knowing the rules and now you make a tear shredding story to make a point and get your freighter reimbursed. 8. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas. |
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