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SIrera Artrald
Titans Rising
20
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Posted - 2014.02.17 20:53:00 -
[31] - Quote
Alundil wrote:SIrera Artrald wrote:HTC NecoSino wrote:SIrera Artrald wrote:Cloaking as it is only serves to allow you to escape. The whole idea of stealth is to allow you to get the other guy when he doesn't expect it! I get 95% of my solo (okay, duo) kills in 2 cloaky T3s (Check my killboard if you don't believe me). SIrera Artrald wrote:I really fail to see how this ruins your WH cloaks? Maybe you'd care enlighten me? Imagine if you would... 2 hulks are mining a belt in a wormhole. A hostile proteus decloaks and points both of them. 5 other ships of various cruiser hulls show up on dscan, in warp to the hulks as well. 6 friendly T3s decloak, point the proteus and arriving fleet as 2 friendly logi cruisers warp in from a connection and the gankers get ganked. This.. This would not be possible (or much more difficult) if your change was introduced. well sure it would be more difficult, but where on earth did you get the idea that stealth should come easy? it should be an active involved process to maintain a cloak in a combat situation, it will make piloting a cloaked ship more challenging but (hopefully) potentially much more rewarding. Only took two pages to finally get to the point, anti afk cloaking after all. Terrible plot twist seen from the opening credits. Bob is displeased.
Haha you're twisting my words! if you read what I describe doesn't change afk cloaking at all just active cloaking to engage in PvP |
colera deldios
171
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Posted - 2014.02.17 21:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
No, cloacking is a valid method and unbroken mechanics. It's one of those things CCP did to perfection. It's also a conflict catalyst and superb method to put pressure on peoples finances. This is one of the tools smaller entities can actually use to harass bigger entities.
Cloacking is really as trivial as it can be. If you make the changes you propose you will simply destroy the mechanic. The main reason people ***** about cloacking campers is because they don't have the balls to form up and counter what's behind that cloacky ship.
0.0 Is already a completely risk free environment for the residents. It's everything that it was not supposed to be. |
SIrera Artrald
Titans Rising
20
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Posted - 2014.02.18 00:14:00 -
[33] - Quote
colera deldios wrote:No, cloacking is a valid method and unbroken mechanic. It's one of those things CCP did to perfection. It's also a conflict catalyst and superb method to put pressure on peoples finances. This is one of the tools smaller entities can actually use to harass bigger entities.
Cloacking is really as trivial as it can be. If you make the changes you propose you will simply destroy the mechanic. The main reason people ***** about cloacking campers is because they don't have the balls to form up and counter what's behind that cloacky ship.
0.0 Is already a completely risk free environment for the residents. It's everything that it was not supposed to be.
You think this change would make 0.0 safer for residents?
Cloaking works great I agree but with the blacks op rebalance coming up soon I thought it might support making the black ops viable in PvP (maybe even "solo"?) and that this change could add some more interest to playing any cloaking vessel. By adding modules that directly enhance cloaking it will also allow for some interesting fitting options for non cloaking specific ships.
This is just a way to translate the classic approach to stealth gameplay found in a lot of RPGs and such into EvE because right now cloaking is just overly simple and completely useless in PvP in almost every case. If I want to play in a cloaking ship, it should be viable to be used in a way that is unique to stealth ships and also works in most PvP without being overly powerful. That's what I was going for with this suggestion. |
HTC NecoSino
Blackstar Privateers Disavowed.
59
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Posted - 2014.02.18 01:24:00 -
[34] - Quote
SIrera Artrald wrote: cloaking is just overly simple and completely useless in PvP in almost every case.
All you're doing is telling us that you don't know how to fly covert. |
SIrera Artrald
Titans Rising
20
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Posted - 2014.02.18 01:34:00 -
[35] - Quote
HTC NecoSino wrote:SIrera Artrald wrote: cloaking is just overly simple and completely useless in PvP in almost every case. All you're doing is telling us that you don't know how to fly covert.
You mean blob stealth bombers? Fuuuuuun. . . |
Gawain Edmond
Angry Mustellid
55
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Posted - 2014.02.18 01:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
SIrera Artrald wrote:Gawain Edmond wrote:i read the disclaimer at the top then 4 lines down you contradict it so this idea is bad for all the reasons all the other nerf afk cloaking ideas are bad Maybe read a bit further?
so i read it all it's still a nerf afk cloaking as that what the idea does before any of the other bits you mentioned. Your idea would stop people sitting in a system cloaked and being unable to be found. If you got rid of the bit that made it so you could find cloaked ships then it wouldn't be a nerf afk cloaking and then i'd totally love this idea. |
SIrera Artrald
Titans Rising
20
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Posted - 2014.02.18 01:45:00 -
[37] - Quote
Gawain Edmond wrote:SIrera Artrald wrote:Gawain Edmond wrote:i read the disclaimer at the top then 4 lines down you contradict it so this idea is bad for all the reasons all the other nerf afk cloaking ideas are bad Maybe read a bit further? so i read it all it's still a nerf afk cloaking as that what the idea does before any of the other bits you mentioned. Your idea would stop people sitting in a system cloaked and being unable to be found. If you got rid of the bit that made it so you could find cloaked ships then it wouldn't be a nerf afk cloaking and then i'd totally love this idea.
I was trying to provide some balance to being able to activate modules. That's why I thought a system where the more you do the more likely you get caught doing it would work. We can just change it so If you are sitting there cloaked with no modules on and 20km or so from other ships you won't be detected? |
Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1053
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Posted - 2014.02.18 02:32:00 -
[38] - Quote
HTC NecoSino wrote:SIrera Artrald wrote:Cloaking as it is only serves to allow you to escape. The whole idea of stealth is to allow you to get the other guy when he doesn't expect it! I get 95% of my solo (okay, duo) kills in 2 cloaky T3s (Check my killboard if you don't believe me). SIrera Artrald wrote:I really fail to see how this ruins your WH cloaks? Maybe you'd care enlighten me? Imagine if you would... 2 hulks are mining a belt in a wormhole. A hostile proteus decloaks and points both of them. 5 other ships of various cruiser hulls show up on dscan, in warp to the hulks as well. 6 friendly T3s decloak, point the proteus and arriving fleet as 2 friendly logi cruisers warp in from a connection and the gankers get ganked. This.. This would not be possible (or much more difficult) if your change was introduced. bahaha, yes. i remember once, some friends of mine in a C4 were baiting with a chimera.
i dont know hwo they did it, but they managed to sucker someone into bringing some horribad-deadspace fitted tengus to gank it (blaster-tengus of all things). he wasnt even really running the sites, he killed the battleships and was sitting there with 3 other chimeras cloaked on-grid, his chimera's mids were loaded up with warp-disruptors, so he scrammed the tengus and had his buddies decloak, it was a beautiful slaughter.
I think they finally quit wormholes 2-3 months ago, wonder if they self-destructed their carriers or if they are still sitting in wormholes somewhere without a pilot. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
66
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Posted - 2014.02.18 04:03:00 -
[39] - Quote
SIrera Artrald wrote:
haha I'm trying to change things from the cloaking pilots perspective. I don't care about people trying to decloak you or anything! I don't want a counter to cloaking! If you sit in a cloaked frigate 30km off the gate gathering intel you won't even notice a change!
Fair enough, but the coding you are thinking of having them add will overly complicate things. The more calculations the server has to perform, the more TiDi. |
SIrera Artrald
Titans Rising
20
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Posted - 2014.02.18 05:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
Petrified wrote:SIrera Artrald wrote:
haha I'm trying to change things from the cloaking pilots perspective. I don't care about people trying to decloak you or anything! I don't want a counter to cloaking! If you sit in a cloaked frigate 30km off the gate gathering intel you won't even notice a change!
Fair enough, but the coding you are thinking of having them add will overly complicate things. The more calculations the server has to perform, the more TiDi.
It is very complicated but not a lot more then the damage calculations of missiles for example. It could have an effect but not a drastic one unless a whole fleet is cloaked in the middle of a sov battle. |
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DSpite Culhach
278
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Posted - 2014.02.18 05:34:00 -
[41] - Quote
Generally speaking I am against mechanics in EVE that introduce random dice rolls to determine if something will happen and prefer mechanics that cause effects that simply reduce or dampen something by set amounts. I think ECM's work on an RNG? and not many like those either.
Anything that adds more skills and skillbooks seems to me like overkill as it just stretches the whole new player thing, and might force to have what are considered "optimal" toons to have to start training something they no longer have the correct remap for as they had already maxed out that line.
Some of the ideas would be good starting points, and I like when people give example of situations that might pop up, but on the general cloaking mechanics I'm not very knowledgeable, and can't make good suggestions. What I said above just covers my view on some mechanics that I am more familiar with. I suddenly woke up thinking I had a nightmare, then remembered I can't even fly Amarr Battleships. I add bits to this when I'm bored https://www.dropbox.com/s/foijsawsqolarom/EVE_Online.html |
SIrera Artrald
Titans Rising
20
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Posted - 2014.02.18 05:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
DSpite Culhach wrote:Generally speaking I am against mechanics in EVE that introduce random dice rolls to determine if something will happen and prefer mechanics that cause effects that simply reduce or dampen something by set amounts. I think ECM's work on an RNG? and not many like those either.
Anything that adds more skills and skillbooks seems to me like overkill as it just stretches the whole new player thing, and might force to have what are considered "optimal" toons to have to start training something they no longer have the correct remap for as they had already maxed out that line.
Some of the ideas would be good starting points, and I like when people give example of situations that might pop up, but on the general cloaking mechanics I'm not very knowledgeable, and can't make good suggestions. What I said above just covers my view on some mechanics that I am more familiar with.
I threw some ideas out there and I do not even remotely think it's balanced! If they inspire some creative thinking about a new cloaking system then I've been successful here! :D
yeah adding skill books does make it take more time to get into stuff as a new player but can that really be helped? Even if we drop the skill books I'd still like to see new cloaking modules associated with a change like this. More fitting options is always a win! |
Easthir Ravin
Easy Co. Fatal Ascension
81
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Posted - 2014.02.18 06:40:00 -
[43] - Quote
Nice try. Because everyone is always screaming balance! Even though your idea is well thought out and I can tell there is a real effort behind this. It still boils down to change the cloak mechanic. The cloaking player already assumes all the risk in a ship that is a glass cannon. Now you are asking for him to assume even more risk when the other player assumes none. I mean other than his ability to notice a neutral in local. IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES: -á" I drank WHAT?!" |
SIrera Artrald
Titans Rising
20
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Posted - 2014.02.18 14:18:00 -
[44] - Quote
Easthir Ravin wrote:Nice try. Because everyone is always screaming balance! Even though your idea is well thought out and I can tell there is a real effort behind this. It still boils down to change the cloak mechanic. The cloaking player already assumes all the risk in a ship that is a glass cannon. Now you are asking for him to assume even more risk when the other player assumes none. I mean other than his ability to notice a neutral in local.
This change does increase the risk of flying cloaked ships but hopefully at an increased reward. If you don't think the reward in this isn't balanced enough with the risk, it's easy enough to tweak an idea. |
HTC NecoSino
Blackstar Privateers Disavowed.
60
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Posted - 2014.02.18 15:30:00 -
[45] - Quote
SIrera Artrald wrote:HTC NecoSino wrote:SIrera Artrald wrote: cloaking is just overly simple and completely useless in PvP in almost every case. All you're doing is telling us that you don't know how to fly covert. You mean blob stealth bombers? Fuuuuuun. . .
Obviously you haven't checked my killboard, or ever flown covert ships.
Covert ships (Recons, T3s, Bombers, T2 Frigs, Black Ops, etc) all rely on cloaking to do their jobs. Try them out, you may actually enjoy it and realize that cloaking doesn't need anything done to it. |
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