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Koniforous
Tauren Transit My Other Laboratory is a Distillery
3
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Posted - 2014.02.17 10:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
First of all, I get it. You guys hate banks. And, omg, you love to heckle the Bank owners. Oh well, here it goes:
I started this Bank to help my corp/alliance mates out and practice market techniques. Then I thought I'd open it publicly and started reading the Eve forums with the intent of actually posting something. For the first time. Ever. Then I became terrified of what I was reading, again and again, about you guys saying people have ruined their character's chances of future loan requests and of all of the skepticism and negative labeling. So, I abstained from posting.
Well, after some final polishes, and initial account holders, I believe my small bank is ready for the public.
I have my own website I use for personal things, mostly Eve, and I created a page with, I think, most of the questions and answers people will be interested in. Keep in mind, please, that I do not have any coding/web design experience and have built this site from the ground up using only dreamweaver and google. So, it's amateur, at best. Any suggestions for the website are more than welcome, as well as feedback from the policies of the bank.
http://cemotes.com/tautx.html
There's a link in my bio and corp info, also.
Well, for those of you that haven't read the webpage, lets talk about the bank, shall we? You can probably skip this part if you went to the site or read my corp info.
I'll be using shares as a Certificate of Deposit system. Shares will cost 1mil each, and give a simple interest of 5% (50k isk) on the 1st of every month. We'll call this the enrollment period. During this time I will also open any new accounts, and issue any withdrawals. However, this will be the only time period these actions will take place, and I require a 30 day notice prior to withdrawals. Before you get all crazy and label this another scam, keep in mind: there is no withdrawal fee, and if you want to deposit your isk and get it back in 30 days then just tell me that when you deposit it. No fine-print strings attached.
I'm placing a current limit of 4,000 shares in circulation for the time being. 565 remain. I'm doing this because it seems wise. I genuinely want this to be a successful service, so I want to make sure things are taken slow and performed well. I will decrease or increase this amount when necessary.
Further details can be found on the webpage, if you're interested.
To all new account holders, I'd like to thank you in advance, and I hope you enjoy the 5% simple interest every month that I'm offering. Please, if you are happy with the bank, post here and spread the good word.
Once Shares have been maxed out I think we can probably use this topic to sell any of your shares in the corp to other pilots if you want to 'withdraw' your funds before an enrollment period.
I will answer any questions you have. So, please, instead of labeling this a scam, be constructive and ask me to clarify something if it seems unclear. Thanks for reading my first forums post ever! |
Koniforous
Tauren Transit My Other Laboratory is a Distillery
3
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Posted - 2014.02.17 10:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
164
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Posted - 2014.02.17 11:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Golly, another 5% interest uncollaterlized loan calling itself a bank! How officious.
Could you show some proof that you've been operating this bank prior to this post? You can't really expect people to take your word on it, can you? :) .
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Koniforous
Tauren Transit My Other Laboratory is a Distillery
3
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Posted - 2014.02.17 11:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:Golly, another 5% interest uncollaterlized loan calling itself a bank! How officious.
Could you show some proof that you've been operating this bank prior to this post? You can't really expect people to take your word on it, can you? :)
This will be the first full month of operation. For Account Holders and interested parties I have included my Eve-Mogul profile in my bio to indicate if the bank will be able to make interest payments at the end of the month. This month has far surpassed both requirements and expectations in profit. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1837
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Posted - 2014.02.17 11:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Koniforous wrote:This month has far surpassed both requirements and expectations in profit. they always do....
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Billy Hix
Team JK
109
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Posted - 2014.02.17 12:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
So you started the bank to help your Corp.
You then read the forums and went away to polish your idea.
You have already received about 3.5B in investments from your Corp.
You only want another 500M from the public.
This is the first month of trading for your bank.
So what you are saying it that you haven't even run a months trial in your Corp yet to iron out the bugs? |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
301
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Posted - 2014.02.17 12:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Why are you calling this a bank?
You are looking to pay an interest rate that is lower than the going rate for starter projects. How do you justify this?
You have chosen to use the in-game share system dispite its many flaws. How do you intend to get around all the issues this will cause?
Having reseached the history of banking in EVE, why do you feel that you will be able to succeed where others have failed? |
Koniforous
Tauren Transit My Other Laboratory is a Distillery
3
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Posted - 2014.02.17 12:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Billy Hix wrote:So you started the bank to help your Corp.
You then read the forums and went away to polish your idea.
This is the first month of trading for your bank.
So what you are saying it that you haven't even run a months trial in your Corp yet to iron out the bugs?
To which bugs are you referring?
The polishing was in trying to be as detailed as possible, and answer as many questions as I have seen asked on Bank, or Loan, or Bond posts, that I could on my webpage to be as clear as possible for public critique.
This is the first month of trading for my bank, yes, it is not, however, the first month of trading for me. |
Koniforous
Tauren Transit My Other Laboratory is a Distillery
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 13:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:Why are you calling this a bank?
You are looking to pay an interest rate that is lower than the going rate for starter projects. How do you justify this?
You have chosen to use the in-game share system dispite its many flaws. How do you intend to get around all the issues this will cause?
Having reseached the history of banking in EVE, why do you feel that you will be able to succeed where others have failed?
I am calling this a bank because I didn't need a loan, or bond. These 'accounts' do not mature, and account holders can withdraw their isk when they wish, upon the terms of condition.
This is the rate I calculated I would be able to maintain safely and guarantee interest payments. If you do not like the interest rate there are several other projects you can invest in. This is, on my end, a safe rate.
To which issues are you referring? After examining several avenues I decided this would be the easiest to way to keep track of account holders and interest. I can immediately see who holds accounts and even issue dividend interest payments to all account holders at once.
I feel that I will be able to succeed where others have failed because I am placing limits on the accounts I am accepting/issuing, that will fluctuate with the amount of playtime I have for Eve and with how well my trades are performing. There is no possibility of theft since I am the only operator of the bank. |
Mu-Shi Ai
Ai Capital
218
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Posted - 2014.02.17 14:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
<-- Loves watching Bad Bobby try to ride on his moral high horse. |
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
301
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Posted - 2014.02.17 14:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mu-Shi Ai wrote:<-- Loves watching Bad Bobby try to ride on his moral high horse. There isn't anything moral about by my high horse.
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Sarton Wells
Blackmoon Ltd.
17
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Posted - 2014.02.17 14:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
So why should I invest my money in your bank with zero guarantee of ever seeing them back instead of investing in a fully collateralized loan? |
Far Wanderer
Bank of Far
2
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Posted - 2014.02.17 19:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Having quietly run a bank for some time now, I can tell you (the OP) that it's often better to do things the hard way as opposed to the easy way.
That is, start and run your bank for at least three months before you bother with advertising on the forums.
Find your customers in-game. Learn to deal with questions as they are posed to you. Do well in those early months and often your business will grow on its own, absent forum interaction.
But if you must use the forums, remember, there will always be hecklers on the forums. This is where the 80/20 rule applies: capsuleers who ask the most good/useful to you questions--the ones that really help you improve your banking system--while giving you the least grief, are the ones worth talking to. They are 80% good and 20% bad.
Whereas the ones who help 20% of the time--if that--and then dole out 80% of the grief you receive...these are the capsuleers (read: potential customers) worth ignoring. Stop answering their questions and move on to the people worth doing business with.
You provide a service, but you are also a customer. A customer in the market for good clients. Don't be afraid to fire a client, or a potential client, if they don't provide you with good service.
Good luck! |
Koniforous
Tauren Transit My Other Laboratory is a Distillery
3
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Posted - 2014.02.17 19:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Thank you for the great advice and constructive feedback, Far Wanderer! |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
87
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Posted - 2014.02.17 22:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
So OP any time you want to explain how your bank isn't an uncollat loan at bad rate go ahead |
Koniforous
Tauren Transit My Other Laboratory is a Distillery
3
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Posted - 2014.02.18 03:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote:So OP any time you want to explain how your bank isn't an uncollat loan at bad rate go ahead
bank ac-+count noun 1. an arrangement made with a bank whereby one may deposit and withdraw money and in some cases be paid interest.
sav-+ings ac-+count noun 1. a bank account that earns interest.
loan l+ìn/Submit noun 1. a thing that is borrowed, esp. a sum of money that is expected to be paid back with interest.
When you stop to think about it, a savings account is almost identical to a loan. The only real difference is that a savings account has an added condition to its terms that allows 'loaning' parties to withdraw their funds when they want to, upon conditional agreements.
So, if you don't find 5% unsecured attractive, don't open an account with me. This is probably going to more attractive to less active, small capital investors than the large scale players I've seen tossing around huge sums of isk on the forums. |
I LIKE IT
HIGH RISK INVESTMENT
144
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Posted - 2014.02.18 08:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Koniforous wrote:if you don't find 5% unsecured attractive, don't open an account with me. MESSAGE RECEIVED AND UNDERSTOOD
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Samroski
Games Inc. The Night Crew Alliance
447
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Posted - 2014.02.18 08:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
What happens to my shares if I suddenly decide to quit playing Eve? Will my interest still be paid regularly for the foreseeable future? Any colour you like. |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
89
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Posted - 2014.02.18 14:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
I would like to purchase all available shares. Please send them to me and I will reply with payment.
If you want to use a third party, I instead wish to buy one share now and reserve the right to buy more later. You pay 3rd party fee. |
Koniforous
Tauren Transit My Other Laboratory is a Distillery
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 15:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
Samroski wrote:What happens to my shares if I suddenly decide to quit playing Eve? Will my interest still be paid regularly for the foreseeable future?
Your 5% interest will be paid as long as you have Shares.
If you are quitting Eve, and hold accounts with me, consider transferring those shares to someone you trust and/or like.
In the event that Shares in circulation need to be reduced, Share holders will be notified via evemail with a request to buyback their shares at a specific amount. Preferably higher than 1mil each. If you are inactive during this time, your shares will obviously be part of those that remain in circulation.
In the event that TAUTX closes, or stops paying interest for possible RL reasons (ie - I find it impossible to balance game time and rl) I will buy back all shares in circulation, preferably at a higher value than 1mil each, and notify account holders vie evemail that I will be stopping all interest payments. If account holders do not return their shares (ie - they do not have an active subscription) they will not be able to withdraw their funds during the closing of the bank (obviously) and will no longer collect interest on their shares.
However, in the event that share holders resub after the bank closes, they will be more than welcomed to evemail me and recollect their savings. I will still honor the previous arrangements of TAUTX savings accounts and reissue them their savings in return for their shares. |
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Koniforous
Tauren Transit My Other Laboratory is a Distillery
3
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Posted - 2014.02.18 15:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote:I would like to purchase all available shares. Please send them to me and I will reply with payment.
If you want to use a third party, I instead wish to buy one share now and reserve the right to buy more later. You pay 3rd party fee.
The open enrollment period has ended. The remaining Shares will be available for deposits on the 1st of March. You will always be required to send TAUTX the isk you would like to save prior to receiving your shares. I am not currently using a 3rd party service. I may in the future. You may use one if you prefer, however, you will be expected to pay any 3rd party fees. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
303
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Posted - 2014.02.18 15:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Koniforous wrote:I am calling this a bank because I didn't need a loan, or bond. These 'accounts' do not mature, and account holders can withdraw their isk when they wish, upon the terms of condition. The reason why you are being asked the same question by several different people, is that they look at your offering and think "this doesn't look like a bank".
Launching and running a bank has many intrinsic issues. These issues are compounded by the terrible reputation and performance record of banks in EVE. Given this, it would obviously pay for any unknown that is starting a small project in EVE to avoid calling themselves a bank where possible. Given your project barely qualifies as a bank, if at all, I have to ask why have you chosen to go this route?
When I start asking that kind of question, it naturally leads to others: Are you trying to make life hard for yourself? Did you fall short in doing your research? Have you terribly missjudged your approach? Are you incompetent?
Koniforous wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:You are looking to pay an interest rate that is lower than the going rate for starter projects. How do you justify this? This is the rate I calculated I would be able to maintain safely and guarantee interest payments. If you do not like the interest rate there are several other projects you can invest in. This is, on my end, a safe rate. The rate is ill-judged, like the rest of your proposition. You are asking people to loan you money at a rate inferior to that of other opportunities of a similar or lesser risk. As you say yourself, there are other projects they can invest in and those projects offer a far better proposition than yours. You may have justified your rate to yourself but you have not justified it to potential investors... because it is unjustifiable.
Koniforous wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:You have chosen to use the in-game share system dispite its many flaws. How do you intend to get around all the issues this will cause? To which issues are you referring? After examining several avenues I decided this would be the easiest to way to keep track of account holders and interest. I can immediately see who holds accounts and even issue dividend interest payments to all account holders at once. The issue here is not so much that you have chosen to make life hard for yourself by using the in-game share system, but that you clearly haven't sufficiently familiarised yourself with the mechanics of that system. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
303
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 15:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Koniforous wrote:I feel that I will be able to succeed where others have failed because I am placing limits on the accounts I am accepting/issuing, that will fluctuate with the amount of playtime I have for Eve and with how well my trades are performing. You are indeed placing many limits on these accounts. That in itself is a great worry, but your intention to fluctuate the number of shares according to conditions is likely to prove a problem for you. I don't know how you intend to force people to return shares if they are unwilling to do so.
Koniforous wrote:There is no possibility of theft since I am the only operator of the bank. Even with a sole operator there is risk of theft. There is risk of theft by the sole operator and there is risk of theft due to the incompetence of the sole operator. Beyond that, there is a significant additional risk of total failure when there is only one person involved and only one person with access to the funds.
Koniforous wrote:Also, I trust myself to be trusted by others. That's jolly nice of you. But we have already establised that your judgement is poor, so it might be better to leave the question of trusting you or not to others.
Koniforous wrote:My intentions are honest, whether you believe them or not. I, honestly, couldn't care less if you are honest or not.
Loraine Gess wrote:I would like to purchase all available shares. Please send them to me and I will reply with payment. This is likely to end well.
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Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
89
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 15:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
Koniforous wrote:Loraine Gess wrote:I would like to purchase all available shares. Please send them to me and I will reply with payment.
If you want to use a third party, I instead wish to buy one share now and reserve the right to buy more later. You pay 3rd party fee. The open enrollment period has ended. The remaining Shares will be available for deposits on the 1st of March. You will always be required to send TAUTX the isk you would like to save prior to receiving your shares. I am not currently using a 3rd party service. I may in the future. You may use one if you prefer, however, you will be expected to pay any 3rd party fees.
So you're shifting 100% of the risk onto the investor? |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
89
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 15:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
Honestly bobby I doubt he's willing to take even the most miniscule of risk given that his intention is obviously to defraud others, but if at any point he's willing to actually transact with me I can turn a profit. |
Koniforous
Tauren Transit My Other Laboratory is a Distillery
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 16:03:00 -
[26] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote:Koniforous wrote:Loraine Gess wrote:I would like to purchase all available shares. Please send them to me and I will reply with payment.
If you want to use a third party, I instead wish to buy one share now and reserve the right to buy more later. You pay 3rd party fee. The open enrollment period has ended. The remaining Shares will be available for deposits on the 1st of March. You will always be required to send TAUTX the isk you would like to save prior to receiving your shares. I am not currently using a 3rd party service. I may in the future. You may use one if you prefer, however, you will be expected to pay any 3rd party fees. So you're shifting 100% of the risk onto the investor?
I am ensuring the validity of all Shares, present and future, by confirming their deposit value has been received prior to their issuance, just as you receive a receipt AFTER you purchase something.
If you do not trust this method of transaction, you are welcomed to wait and watch as transactions take place in this manner over the next few months, and then decide if it is a pleasing method to you. You are also welcomed to inform the grocery stores you purchase food at that you will pay only after having received a receipt of sale. |
I LIKE IT
HIGH RISK INVESTMENT
145
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 16:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Koniforous wrote:If you do not trust this method of transaction, you are welcomed to wait and watch as transactions take place in this manner over the next few months, and then decide if it is a pleasing method to you. You are also welcomed to inform the grocery stores you purchase food at that you will pay only after having received a receipt of sale. DO YOU TAKE CHEQUES? DO I NEED A GUARENTEE CARD? WILL YOU CHARGE ME FOR PAYING BY CHEQUE? HOW FRESH IS THIS BREAD? **** ME THE WEATHER HAS BEEN BAD LATELY, HASN'T IT? AND TWENTY BENSONS CHEERS. |
Koniforous
Tauren Transit My Other Laboratory is a Distillery
3
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Posted - 2014.02.18 16:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
I LIKE IT wrote:Koniforous wrote:If you do not trust this method of transaction, you are welcomed to wait and watch as transactions take place in this manner over the next few months, and then decide if it is a pleasing method to you. You are also welcomed to inform the grocery stores you purchase food at that you will pay only after having received a receipt of sale. DO YOU TAKE CHEQUES? DO I NEED A GUARENTEE CARD? WILL YOU CHARGE ME FOR PAYING BY CHEQUE? HOW FRESH IS THIS BREAD? **** ME THE WEATHER HAS BEEN BAD LATELY, HASN'T IT? AND TWENTY BENSONS CHEERS.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more i like it? |
I LIKE IT
HIGH RISK INVESTMENT
145
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 16:24:00 -
[29] - Quote
Koniforous wrote:I LIKE IT wrote:Koniforous wrote:If you do not trust this method of transaction, you are welcomed to wait and watch as transactions take place in this manner over the next few months, and then decide if it is a pleasing method to you. You are also welcomed to inform the grocery stores you purchase food at that you will pay only after having received a receipt of sale. DO YOU TAKE CHEQUES? DO I NEED A GUARENTEE CARD? WILL YOU CHARGE ME FOR PAYING BY CHEQUE? HOW FRESH IS THIS BREAD? **** ME THE WEATHER HAS BEEN BAD LATELY, HASN'T IT? AND TWENTY BENSONS CHEERS. Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more i like it? ****, YEAH. I NEARLY FORGOT! A TENNERS WORTH OF SCRATCHARDS MATE. THE WOMAN WOULD HAVE KILLED ME. |
Koniforous
Tauren Transit My Other Laboratory is a Distillery
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 16:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
Quote:The reason why you are being asked the same question by several different people, is that they look at your offering and think "this doesn't look like a bank".
Launching and running a bank has many intrinsic issues. These issues are compounded by the terrible reputation and performance record of banks in EVE. Given this, it would obviously pay for any unknown that is starting a small project in EVE to avoid calling themselves a bank where possible. Given your project barely qualifies as a bank, if at all, I have to ask why have you chosen to go this route?
When I start asking that kind of question, it naturally leads to others: Are you trying to make life hard for yourself? Did you fall short in doing your research? Have you terribly missjudged your approach? Are you incompetent?
Bank definition:
"A bank is a financial institution and a financial intermediary that accepts deposits and channels those deposits into lending activities, either directly by loaning or indirectly through capital markets. A bank links together customers that have capital deficits and customers with capital surpluses."
So, originally I was attempting to reduce losses by NOT utilizing funds as loans to other entities and simply labeling my service/corp as a Savings Bank. But, maybe you're right in saying that this has led to the community perceiving my "bank" as just an unsecured loan.
As such, I will be amending my policies to allow for the use of bank funds as secure, 3rd party backed, lending capital investments. All current share holders will receive an evemail informing them of this policy update, and this new policy will go into effect April 1st. This will allow for current share holders to withdraw their funds prior to the date of enactment, if they do not agree with this new policy.
I would also like to respond to you, Bad Bobby, and say that I appreciate the detail and time you took to examine and reply to so many things about my post. Most of what you said, however, is primarily opinion and I do not see many question marks. So, I will simply thank you, and hope that you clearly repeat any questions you would like answered in a clear and concise format. |
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