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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
896
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Posted - 2014.02.24 20:24:00 -
[31] - Quote
Cuci Cairi wrote:Skilfer Azizora wrote: I completely agree Kim-haan. While I disagreed with many of the former Executor's actions and policies, he was Caldari through and through. Everything he did was what he honestly believed was the best course of action for a better State. Being as strong and resilient of man that he is, it is likely he would be caring a suicide agent at all times, in the event that capture be even a remote possibility. Despite the hate he receives, he would unquestionably give his life for the State, even in exile.
That being said, the only reason the Nation would have to capture such a strong-willed individual would be, and this is pure speculation, Kuvakei is actually dead and the Nation can no longer operate solely on the remnants of his consciousness. After Sansha reconditioning and processing, I believe the former Executor would provide the proper intellect, force of will, and strength of presence for the Nation to view him as a fitting successor to Kuvakei and lead them.
He wasn't known for being the sharpest person around, it seems unlikely that he would be sought out to lead a consciousness. Though, I suppose it would be good for us if he was - it would simply weaken the Sansha further. Unfortunately, gallenteans seem to revel in insulting the most famous, merited and prominent representatives of other cultures. And this is another reason why the Federation must be destroyed. |
Redpants
The Scope Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2014.02.24 20:48:00 -
[32] - Quote
Another high profile failure in the Caldari Navy. Is this sort of thing news? |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
3020
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Posted - 2014.02.24 20:55:00 -
[33] - Quote
Redpants wrote:Another high profile failure in the Caldari Navy. Is this sort of thing news?
For the single most effective fighting force in New Eden, of course it's news! It's a rare case, something the Scope are more than happy to jump on.
I suppose when your own "Federation Navy" becomes complacent with its inefficacy, and your media make a running gag of its failures, and your own people only volunteer for the dental insurance... well, courts martial might not seem like news to you. Just another day in the Fed, where those people sworn to protect it can't hold a shampoo bottle right side up, let alone run a working defense force.
Carry on though. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3268
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Posted - 2014.02.24 21:16:00 -
[34] - Quote
Redpants wrote:Another high profile failure in the Caldari Navy. Is this sort of thing news?
Prosecutions of high ranking Caldari Navy officers? Kinda big news, yes.
I wonder if we'll deal with it in a civilised manner by making him burn to death? |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
3025
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Posted - 2014.02.24 21:25:00 -
[35] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote: I wonder if we'll deal with it in a civilised manner by making him burn to death?
No we'll probably just cut funding to our Navy so hard it completely neuters our ability to fight anything, because who needs hard working men and women in uniform when you have drones!
Right, Fed Navy? RIGHT?! Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
530
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Posted - 2014.02.24 21:33:00 -
[36] - Quote
Redpants wrote:Another high profile failure in the Caldari Navy. Is this sort of thing news?
I advise you to read up on Operation Highlander (battle for caldari prime) and Operation Spectre ( 4 nations enganing pirate installations) It will give you a better view on why this is news.
Especially operation Spectre might humble you, as that was a total screwup, not only by the Caldary Navy Fleet Commander, but also of the Gallente Fleet Commander and minmatar & Amarr... they all failed, under Concord's 'guidance' (or lack of it really)
Once you looked into this, you can come back & give an informed opinion. I even made it easy for you, my signature contains a link to an expanded newsarticle concerning the arrest that explains these two operations in more detail, including references to the events themselves. The Arcology welcomes over 28.000 refugees! Caldary Navy arrests Wing Commander Okuuda! |
Gosakumori Noh
Seraglio Hastatus Hagia Sophia
539
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Posted - 2014.02.24 21:40:00 -
[37] - Quote
Also good reading, of course, the relatively recent Invasion of Colelie |
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
531
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Posted - 2014.02.24 21:48:00 -
[38] - Quote
Indeed correct Miss Noh, it slipped my mind, as it wasn't directly connected to the topic at hand, but it'll surely help Mr Redpants in getting to know what happened the last year. The Arcology welcomes over 28.000 refugees! Caldary Navy arrests Wing Commander Okuuda! |
Gorion Wassenar
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
88
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Posted - 2014.02.24 21:49:00 -
[39] - Quote
This is what happens when you follow a megalomaniac crazy dictator AND suck at doing your job. |
Ayallah
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
107
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Posted - 2014.02.24 23:36:00 -
[40] - Quote
If he is facing court martial for operation Highlander, and for crimes in relation to the CPD why was he allowed to have command in operation Spectre, months after his failures previous? For a system that relies on merit he seems to be given an uncharacteristic amount of windfall and chances. This either makes the State seem incompetent or weak in execution which does not fit with past actions, or it supports the theory that he is a scapegoat, either now or during Spectre.
Both answers seem too simple to me however, I am sure that adding the slow grind of empire bureaucracy and the hardships that have befallen the State of late things such as this cleaning of house of an officer who was allowed to persist too long after he was worthy and cause harm more than once is surely as strong a sign of weakness that the Caldari Navy would ever exhibit.
And after the turmoil of the last few years it is impressive that the catching of breath and cleaning of house was executed as it was. A stark contrast to the long crescendo culminating in an overnight purge of the Republic, The sudden inevitable rise of the Empress or, ...whatever the hell the Federation does.
As usual the State grinds on I suppose. Hardly a bump in the road. -áFear The Tribes |
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Ollie Rundle
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
148
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Posted - 2014.02.25 12:01:00 -
[41] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Ollie Rundle wrote:That said - and to satisfy my own morbid curiosity for these kinds of things - as the Wing Commander of a fleet with wide jurisdiction within (and even at times beyond) the State's borders can anyone recall if Sami Okuuda or any significant part of the 37th were committed to the search for Heth or the eventual discovery and rapid salvage of the wreckage reportedly located in Aivonen last year? Given the Commander's strong ties to the CPD, I imagine he was kept far away from that assignment until after his loyalty had been established. I'm grateful for the speculative response, Pieter, but it doesn't really reassure me that Okuuda was definitively cut out of the loop during these events. Even if he wasn't officially involved chances are that he knew someone who was - military contacts and the networks of loyalty, duty and respect developed by high-ranking officers over the course of their careers being what they are.
If we tie that in to the 37th's history and its links with the Guristas we've developed quite a number of possible theories to try and sift through for the truth.
Of course it may well be that the simplest explanation is the one that cuts closest to that truth. Perhaps it's nothing more than past actions - Okuuda coercing Provist-loyal capsuleers to a SuuVee aid convoy last year for instance - now being repaid in full. Nothing like a helping of vengeance served cold, as the saying goes. O. Rundle The Synenose Accord Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated. |
Bryen Verrisai
EVE University Ivy League
70
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Posted - 2014.02.25 14:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote: I wonder if we'll deal with it in a civilised manner by making him burn to death?
No copycatting. If everyone starts doing it, it won't be cool anymore. |
Cuci Cairi
72
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Posted - 2014.02.25 14:21:00 -
[43] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote: Tibus Heth was real patriot and was born as a leader. There is no explanation really needed. He was destined to rule the State and lift gallentean occupation from our homeworld!
If he was destined, it seems odd that he didn't do so. I am the waterfall in your head. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
896
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Posted - 2014.02.26 22:30:00 -
[44] - Quote
Cuci Cairi wrote:Diana Kim wrote: Tibus Heth was real patriot and was born as a leader. There is no explanation really needed. He was destined to rule the State and lift gallentean occupation from our homeworld!
If he was destined, it seems odd that he didn't do so. He did. He ruled the State, he took our homeworld back, and died as true Caldari citizen, patriot and hero.
Unfortunately, now frogs reoccupied part of our planet. Thanks to winds, less than a half of it. But we will make sure they will pay for this atrocity with their blood. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty. DARKNESS.
4251
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Posted - 2014.02.27 10:59:00 -
[45] - Quote
Observing this from an outside perspective, I feel torn.
I'll make no attempt to disguise it - I never liked Wing Commander Okuuda in the least. He was of the kind of pigheaded stock that blamed the Federation for all the State's ills - even the ones that were clearly its own fault - and wouldn't hear a single word of criticism against Heth, even when it became increasingly clear that Heth's desires and the State's prosperity no longer lined up. Neither can he be described as being notably adept at the tasks his superiors called upon him to perform, as his decisions during Operation Spectre clearly demonstrate. On a personal level I can't say I'd shed tears for the man were he to end up in a Naval penitentiary.
Yet, at the same time, I can't help but feel on a more general level that this man is a victim of deeply unfortunate circumstances. Octopus squadron was called upon to achieve the impossible during Operation Highlander - fighting off a bloodthirsty legion of capsuleers and the might of the Federal Navy in one of their own core systems - with a handful of capital ships they could fit through in the tiny window the Federation's cynosural inhibitors were offline, a window it should be noted they didn't and couldn't know the timing or duration of in advance. Likewise, in Operation Spectre, he was called upon to organise a massive, disparate and incredibly disorganised force of Empire and State capsuleers (many of whom had little or no experience fighting other capsuleers whatsoever, let alone fighting capsuleers in nullsec) to engage in a nullsec operation that had been announced well in advance, thus giving the far more organised and homogenous nullsec powerblocs ample time to prepare for it.
The man was asked by his superiors to achieve unrealistic goals in catastrophically unfavourable situations, and he bravely attempted to perform his duties despite the odds clearly being stacked against him. I wouldn't expect Federal commanders to fare much better in the same circumstances.
Additionally, under all of this, I can't help but feel the suspicion that the man is being stigmatised not because of what he did but because of who he supported. It's now deeply unfashionable in the State to voice support for Heth and the Provists, and while I'm not by any stretch of the imagination going to say I disapprove of this attitude, it would trouble me if the man's beliefs were a factor in the Navy's decision-making. Yes, I certainly think his opinions are incorrect, but he was never a Provist and he never did anything illegal in their name.
While on a specific, personal level I don't like the man, as one human being to another, I wish him the best of luck in his court martial and sincerely believe that he will weather whatever storms may be thrown his way with honour and dignity befitting a Caldari Navyman. Mane 614
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Aelisha
Achura-Waschi Exchange Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
334
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Posted - 2014.02.27 11:31:00 -
[46] - Quote
A measured and mature response to a complex and divisive issue. Mr Ixiris, I could not agree more. CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange: An International trade corporation that adheres to State values
Intaki born State Citizen and supporter of the Practicals Bloc. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3198
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:18:00 -
[47] - Quote
fifty-seven dishonorable discharges, including Wing Commander Okuuda.
Regrettable that such action was necessary in the first place, I suppose, but it's good to see the military meritocracy in action. Let us see if the discharged 57 can find their competence, pick up the pieces, and contribute in some other field. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1106
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
And cue rage from Diana in 3... 2... 1... Morwen Lagann CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3285
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:32:00 -
[49] - Quote
WIthout any knowledge of the specific charges, it's impossible to be able to comment intelligently on whether the end result is fair or not. I suspect this is the tail-end of the disbandment of the CPD and a thorough rooting-out of it's remaining influence within other State organs.
Whatever else we beleive about him, Commander Okuuda was definitely a Provist supporter, a supporter of the CPD and a supporter of Tibus Heth. Getting him out of high command was necessary. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
3031
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:31:00 -
[50] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:WIthout any knowledge of the specific charges, it's impossible to be able to comment intelligently on whether the end result is fair or not. I suspect this is the tail-end of the disbandment of the CPD and a thorough rooting-out of it's remaining influence within other State organs.
Whatever else we beleive about him, Commander Okuuda was definitely a Provist supporter, a supporter of the CPD and a supporter of Tibus Heth. Getting him out of high command was necessary.
You know, for all my dislike of the Provists, I honestly didn't really suspect he was among them.
The last few times I spoke directly with him was during the State-wide purge of first generation clone mercenaries. During the time, he was very curt regarding I-RED's refusal to support the action. I always assumed due to his response he was simply a disapproving Patriot, not an angered Provist.
Learn something new every day, I suppose.
[quote=Stitcher]fifty-seven dishonorable discharges, including Wing Commander Okuuda.
I think the reality is that those who were in positions of high and/or prestigious command, such as Wing Commander Okuuda, will not be able to find equivalent opportunities due to the nature of their dismissals. Their choices are bleak; as they will likely only be able to find employment in lesser or non-State positions.
Some may take corporate paramilitary jobs, some will form their own companies, and some will leave the security fields altogether and find work in some other industry. Very few will find areas of work that are both legitimate and equal to their former positions. In the worst case scenarios, we might expect some to defect to the Guristas or Templis Dragonaurs. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
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Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
542
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Posted - 2014.02.27 23:02:00 -
[51] - Quote
It's indeed good to see the Navy acted swift. However, not much details concerning the trial & charges have been released, save that they 'worked against the State's best interests' This leaves the door wide open for rumors & speculations concerning the exact nature of their charges. Ayem Colony expansion has begun! The Xiadii Charity Ball |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3285
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:24:00 -
[52] - Quote
I'm not terribly surprised or suspicious. Charges involving specific Navy Operations and/or protocols would be classified in any case and not released to the scrutiny of any and all. |
Gosakumori Noh
Seraglio Hastatus Hagia Sophia
550
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:35:00 -
[53] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Some may take corporate paramilitary jobs, some will form their own companies, and some will leave the security fields altogether and find work in some other industry. Very few will find areas of work that are both legitimate and equal to their former positions. In the worst case scenarios, we might expect some to defect to the Guristas or Templis Dragonaurs.
As the great black hearted spider goddess of Fate would spin it, the Federation has manifested increasing demand for private prison contractors in the wake of racial tensions unleashed by violent Matari terrorists; and Mummy Noh has always thought highly of Dragoons with their wyvern tails.
What's that sweeties? They're *not* tails?
Well look at that! They *are* on the wrong side, aren't they?
:stomp:stomp:salute:...:fast march:
Oh, I like fast march.
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Morgan Wulver
Eskola Ergonomics
18
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Posted - 2014.02.28 00:25:00 -
[54] - Quote
Gods and spirits, I probably knew some of those NCOs who were court marshaled. Happy to see I left the 37th just before things started going down the drain.
Personally, I'd gladly testify on behalf of most of the Non-Commissioned staff in Octopus. A vast majority of them were good men looking out for the well-being of their crew and their ships. A lot of the destruction and mayhem seen on Caldari Prime wasn't on the part of incompetent officers, but unrealistic orders. If you really wanted to take this "to the top" then I would start looking for answers in the bureaucratic hierarchy instead of pinning an administrative failure on the soldier forced to carry those actions out.
Overall, I view this as one more mark to add to the list of reasons why I'm never going back to the Caldari Navy. "Today, unyielding, we have walked the way of the warrior. In our hands have our fates been molded."
DUST Account: Galm Fae-á
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
905
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Posted - 2014.03.01 07:35:00 -
[55] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Whatever else we beleive about him, Commander Okuuda was definitely a Provist supporter, a supporter of the CPD and a supporter of Tibus Heth. Getting him out of high command was necessary.
Only traitors and enemies of Caldari peoples would say so. Are you one of them? Did Sanshas finally get you and brainwashed?... What happened to loyal Tuulinen-haan? |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
905
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Posted - 2014.03.01 07:37:00 -
[56] - Quote
Morgan Wulver wrote:Gods and spirits, I probably knew some of those NCOs who were court marshaled. Happy to see I left the 37th just before things started going down the drain.
Personally, I'd gladly testify on behalf of most of the Non-Commissioned staff in Octopus. A vast majority of them were good men looking out for the well-being of their crew and their ships. A lot of the destruction and mayhem seen on Caldari Prime wasn't on the part of incompetent officers, but unrealistic orders. If you really wanted to take this "to the top" then I would start looking for answers in the bureaucratic hierarchy instead of pinning an administrative failure on the soldier forced to carry those actions out.
Overall, I view this as one more mark to add to the list of reasons why I'm never going back to the Caldari Navy. Aren't they were those, who attacked Caldari patriots with Dragonaurs in Haatomo?..
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Morgan Wulver
Eskola Ergonomics
18
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Posted - 2014.03.01 07:50:00 -
[57] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Morgan Wulver wrote:Gods and spirits, I probably knew some of those NCOs who were court marshaled. Happy to see I left the 37th just before things started going down the drain.
Personally, I'd gladly testify on behalf of most of the Non-Commissioned staff in Octopus. A vast majority of them were good men looking out for the well-being of their crew and their ships. A lot of the destruction and mayhem seen on Caldari Prime wasn't on the part of incompetent officers, but unrealistic orders. If you really wanted to take this "to the top" then I would start looking for answers in the bureaucratic hierarchy instead of pinning an administrative failure on the soldier forced to carry those actions out.
Overall, I view this as one more mark to add to the list of reasons why I'm never going back to the Caldari Navy. Aren't they were those, who attacked Caldari patriots with Dragonaurs in Haatomo?.. Forgive me, but can you please restate the question? I'm not entirely sure what you are asking and I feel like I should be absolutely clear on what the question is before I touch a topic as delicate as the Dragonaurs, especially with my background. "Today, unyielding, we have walked the way of the warrior. In our hands have our fates been molded."
DUST Account: Galm Fae-á
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Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
543
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Posted - 2014.03.01 10:47:00 -
[58] - Quote
Morgan Wulver wrote: A lot of the destruction and mayhem seen on Caldari Prime wasn't on the part of incompetent officers, but unrealistic orders. If you really wanted to take this "to the top" then I would start looking for answers in the bureaucratic hierarchy instead of pinning an administrative failure on the soldier forced to carry those actions out.
Overall, I view this as one more mark to add to the list of reasons why I'm never going back to the Caldari Navy.
In response to this, taking it "to the top" has alreay happened. The orders were given during Heth's rule, Heth himself appointed Admiral Yanala to hold Caldari prime, so his involvement was close. So this all seems to be the Caldari Navy getting rid of (former) Provists in power. Cleaning up the act as if it were. Considering that several of the officers did not only get dishonorably discharged, but also sentenced to (long) prisontimes does show there have been things going on that aren't acceptable to the Caldari Navy. Seen in that light, Mr Okuuda got off well, as he is able to walk away as a free man, but he has to rebuilt his reputation now, perhaps as a commander of a merc force as someone suggested above. Wing Commander Okuuda discharged dishonorably by the Caldari Navy The Xiadii Charity Ball |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
905
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Posted - 2014.03.01 11:18:00 -
[59] - Quote
Morgan Wulver wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Morgan Wulver wrote:Gods and spirits, I probably knew some of those NCOs who were court marshaled. Happy to see I left the 37th just before things started going down the drain.
Personally, I'd gladly testify on behalf of most of the Non-Commissioned staff in Octopus. A vast majority of them were good men looking out for the well-being of their crew and their ships. A lot of the destruction and mayhem seen on Caldari Prime wasn't on the part of incompetent officers, but unrealistic orders. If you really wanted to take this "to the top" then I would start looking for answers in the bureaucratic hierarchy instead of pinning an administrative failure on the soldier forced to carry those actions out.
Overall, I view this as one more mark to add to the list of reasons why I'm never going back to the Caldari Navy. Aren't they were those, who attacked Caldari patriots with Dragonaurs in Haatomo?.. Forgive me, but can you please restate the question? I'm not entirely sure what you are asking and I feel like I should be absolutely clear Please excuse me in my turn. I mean, was the 37th squadron that squadron of the Navy, who attacked Dragonaurs and loyal Caldari citizens, led by Executor himself, after siege of Haatomo station?
Morgan Wulver wrote:on what the question is before I touch a topic as delicate as the Dragonaurs, especially with my background. I don't think that topics about Dragonaurs are very delicate. They are just guerilla patriots, wrongly called as 'terrorists' by gallenteans and by those, who lick gallentean asses.
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Morgan Wulver
Eskola Ergonomics
18
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Posted - 2014.03.02 09:09:00 -
[60] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote: Please excuse me in my turn. I mean, was the 37th squadron that squadron of the Navy, who attacked Dragonaurs and loyal Caldari citizens, led by Executor himself, after siege of Haatomo station?
Forgive me if I refuse to comment on that particular event. My experience with the 37th was centered around the defense of Caldari Prime, a position that I ironically was never able to carry out. All operations I was involved in were based on supporting the orbital fleet or routine patrol missions for officer training. In my personal experience outside of past events, the NCOs in Octopus were good men... Gallente-hating war-mongrels determined to hold our homeland? Maybe. But ultimately good men.
I personally am unfamiliar with any assault taken by Octopus against Dragonaurs. During the second assault on Caldari Prime, Dragonaurs acted as supporting mercenaries for the Caldari Marine Expeditionary Forces (before they were replaced by the Peacekeepers) so I am skeptical of such an event, especially under Heth's regime. I would easily be persuaded otherwise if you could prove it so. Once again, my experience with Octopus was relatively limited.
Quote:I don't think that topics about Dragonaurs are very delicate. They are just guerilla patriots, wrongly called as 'terrorists' by gallenteans and by those, who lick gallentean buttocks. Then you are among the minority for recognizing that, Kim-haani. There aren't many places in the universe were I can show off my Templis tattoo without being branded a murderer or terrorist.
Dragonaurs are not Provists. They've been around since the dawn of the Raata and they aren't going anywhere.
Now, while I can't claim that I am still a Dragonaur or a Provist, I do believe I owe you a beer for not being so thickheaded to assume we are all extremists. "Today, unyielding, we have walked the way of the warrior. In our hands have our fates been molded."
DUST Account: Galm Fae-á
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