EVE Search - (#2 - 2006.03) BMBE Shareholder Report

Search EVE-Online forums for:

All Channels

Market Discussions

(#2 - 2006.03) BMBE Shareholder Report

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Topic
TornSoul	Posted - 2006.04.14 21:42:00 - [1] These are as follows: "Reduced Interest, Standard Payment" loan (RISP loan) "Reduced Interest, Fixed Length" loan (RIFL loan) and Common for both loan types are: - You can put up t2 BPo's as security (these will be valued at just below market value) - You need to take out a loan of minimum 2B ISK - The loan has to run for a minimum of 8 weeks. - The loan will have no startup fee - The loan will run with a reduced weekly interest - Consider this a 'bulk discount' (2.5% for RIFL loand and 3.5% for RISP loans) - BMBE will offer to keep producing from the t2 BPo's while they are kept as security (through a partnership with BIG producers). This with the understandment that the client supplies the materials to do so. - BMBE will offer to handle sales of the produced items (through a partnership with BIG-Sales), should the clients not be interested in doing this themself. RISP loan specfics With the exception of the "no setup fee" and the reduced weekly interest of 3.5% (instead of 5%), RISP loans works excactly like any standard BMBE loan. Meaning they can run for as long as you keep paying the weekly interest. Example: Loan 10B ISK Runtime N/A Weekly interest (at 3.5%) = 350M ISK Total to be paid back each week : 350M ISK. Total to be paid back to close the loan (ie. payement of the very last week) 10.35B ISK RIFL loan specfics RIFL loans are special, in as much as a predetermined lenght of the loan is agreed on. Maximum run time is 16 weeks. Furthermore : A part (proportional to the length of the loan) of the original loan has to be paid back each week, ontop of the interest (this is the 'price' for the very reduced interest rate) Example: Loan 10B ISK Runtime 10 weeks Weekly interest (at 2.5%) = 250M ISK Part of loan to be paid back each week (loan/run time): 10B/10 weeks = 1B/week Total to be paid back each week : 1.25B ISK. ------------------------------------------------------------ In combination with the above to new loan types, the BMBE is also going to step up its marketing effort. Specifically, t2 BPo auction/sell posts will be targeted with a post refering to the two new loan types. It's our hope that the auction/sell post starters will not see this as intrusion on their auction/sell post, but instead will welcome it and see it as a way to perhaps get some more ISK into it. BIG Lottery [u
TornSoul	Posted - 2006.04.14 21:42:00 - [2] Edited by: TornSoul on 14/04/2006 21:43:06 This is the second BMBE shareholder report. And a very delayed one of that. My apologies for this. Unfortunatly this report is very similar to the first BMBE shareholder report, in as much as I once more have to report that no dividend will be paid out for this the 2nd month of the BMBE. Profit numbers for the second month of the BMBE Income Loan profits : 3,852,546 ISK Result from previous month : -140,000,000 ISK Total result for the BMBE : -136,147,454 ISK Although the numbes are still incredible disappointing, it's still worth noting that the BMBE still attracks new 'users', in as much as new accounts are still created (ie. people creating a BMBE account to check out what the BMBE has to offer) 13 new accounts in march - and just as many this month (april) already as well. I interpret this as that the BMBE still has 'a market' (ie. theres people wanting to loan ISK), but that the BMBE dont offer what the market is looking for. This coupled with the fact that I've been approached a few times regarding very large loans (for t2 BPo purchases/auctions), and that these people actually had substantial security to offer, only not in a form currently accepted by the BMBE, namely t2 BPo's, has (reluctantly...) made me realize that if the BMBE is ever going to make any ISK, some drastic changes are needed. The change is that in the future the BMBE is going to accept t2 BPo's as security for large loans. And coupled with that, the BMBE is going to offer two new loan types. BIG Lottery [u
TornSoul	Posted - 2006.04.14 21:42:00 - [3] It's my hope that the BMBE shareholders will welcome the above initiatives. And also that they see the necessity of trying to make some loans at a reduced interest, even though that means that the initial estimates of the ROI for the BMBE naturally are affected by this. But rather some dividend, than non at all - Right. ------------------------------------------------------------ The BMBE has 1 month left (well... less due to the delay of this report), to 'prove itself' as a business. The BMBE will honor the promise made at the outset : If the business is a 'failure' after 3 months time, shareholders will be offered to exchange back their shares for their original value, should they wish to do so. Unless the new loan types really take of, this atm looks as if it's going to be a real possibility. The details on how excactly the BMBE is going to handle this, will be announced when (if) the time comes (aka. no need to send me any mails regarding this just yet) I naturally hope this wont be necessary, and that the BMBE will prosper - But it sure has turned out to be alot harder than orginally visioned. We will know soon enough I guess. BIG Lottery [u
The FLaSh	Posted - 2006.04.14 22:31:00 - [4] I's just like so say .... sad face <Freighter Service Available only 375k per jump>
Kasibee'an	Posted - 2006.04.15 02:07:00 - [5] I think you're making the right decision. Just make BPO owners aware of it. I presume you're going to start a new thread with the new offers? Good luck with this. I very much hope to have a divident payment rather than a refund in my wallet next month ;-)
Levon Bedros	Posted - 2006.04.15 03:03:00 - [6] So how can I get a 40bil loan if all my t2 bpos are in production?
TornSoul	Posted - 2006.04.15 04:06:00 - [7] Originally by: TornSoul - BMBE will offer to keep producing from the t2 BPo's while they are kept as security (through a partnership with BIG producers). This with the understandment that the client supplies the materials to do so. - BMBE will offer to handle sales of the produced items (through a partnership with BIG-Sales), should the clients not be interested in doing this themself. Worth noticing is that an hour after my initial post, the BMBE already had an inquery into the excact details of taking out a 50B loan. Whether or not this loan goes through, depends on the outcome of a certain auction going on atm That to say : We are still open to other loans. First Come, First Serve - Style. Should the 50B loan go through however, we'll be faced with the necessity of having to do a new IPO round, as the BMBE would then have used up all of it's working capital in one go. But we'll cross that bridge, if/when we get to it. The above does however clearly demonstrate that this was the right move for the BMBE. And hopefully the shareholders will finally start to see some dividend BIG Lottery [u
Baun	Posted - 2006.04.15 04:39:00 - [8] Originally by: TornSoul Originally by: TornSoul - BMBE will offer to keep producing from the t2 BPo's while they are kept as security (through a partnership with BIG producers). This with the understandment that the client supplies the materials to do so. - BMBE will offer to handle sales of the produced items (through a partnership with BIG-Sales), should the clients not be interested in doing this themself. Worth noticing is that an hour after my initial post, the BMBE already had an inquery into the excact details of taking out a 50B loan. Whether or not this loan goes through, depends on the outcome of a certain auction going on atm That to say : We are still open to other loans. First Come, First Serve - Style. Should the 50B loan go through however, we'll be faced with the necessity of having to do a new IPO round, as the BMBE would then have used up all of it's working capital in one go. But we'll cross that bridge, if/when we get to it. The above does however clearly demonstrate that this was the right move for the BMBE. And hopefully the shareholders will finally start to see some dividend Nevertheless my danish friend, given that you have changed business models rather drastically you need to repost this somewhere else (I'd suggest Corporations and Alliances at least). The Enemy's Gate is Down
Ravenal	Posted - 2006.04.15 10:21:00 - [9] why not bship, capital and outpost bpos - expensive stuff and shouldnt be that hard to sell at slightly under market value. . -Fate is what you make of it. -Make your own fate using T2 items produced by The Fated
Serenity Steele	Posted - 2006.04.15 11:30:00 - [10] Thanks for the update. Looks like all in all a move in the right direction!

ShadowStrike	Posted - 2006.04.15 13:12:00 - [11] Edited by: ShadowStrike on 15/04/2006 13:12:57 does the interests are adjusted to the remaining loan when we do a fixed time loan? in your exemple, a 10 bil. loan for 10 weeks, the 1st week, we would pay 1.25 bil. but what will it be the 2nd week? will it be another 1.25 bil. or will it be 1.225 bil. ? and the last week, is it still 1.25 bil. for a 1 bil. loan or is it 1.025 bil. as the last payment? also, how do you rate the market value of the t2 bpo? and do we have to move the bpo to a specific location or would you produce from them at our location? ½½selling Falcon, Lachesis, Eris & Flycatcher ships++ ~~~~~~~~~~(click here for prices)~~~~~~~~~
TornSoul	Posted - 2006.04.15 15:45:00 - [12] Originally by: Baun Nevertheless my danish friend, given that you have changed business models rather drastically you need to repost this somewhere else (I'd suggest Corporations and Alliances at least). Comming up. Originally by: Baun Anyway as a non-insignificant shareholder I like the changes. I would like to see a guarantee that even if the t2 BPO holder doesnt want to provide materials to produce from it that BIG will do so anyway and return a share of profits derived from so doing to the shareholders. I cant give that gurantee. As it would mean (alot of) extra work for BIG having to collect the needed materials to produce. I cant give a gurantee that we have the manpower to do this. Also - You wont expect anyone to do that kinda work for free right? - So that leaves the problem of putting (a fair) value on that work. Nasty one really... (I sure dont know how) Also - It would mean that BIG would have to front the ISK for the materials needed to build the item (this could be rather substantial if this takes of). Why would we want to tie down BIGs ISK in such an operation? Sure, we could get some compensation for doing so, but again, nasty one figuring out how to do so fairly. Originally by: Ravenal why not bship, capital and outpost bpos - expensive stuff and shouldnt be that hard to sell at slightly under market value. I beg to differ. Especially the outpost bpo's... Bship bpo's should be doable though. BIG Lottery [u
TornSoul	Posted - 2006.04.15 15:55:00 - [13] Originally by: ShadowStrike Edited by: ShadowStrike on 15/04/2006 13:32:41 does the interests are adjusted to the remaining loan when we do a rifl loan? in your example, a 10 bil. loan for 10 weeks, the 1st week, we would pay 1.25 bil. but what will it be the 2nd week? will it be another 1.25 bil. or will it be 1.225 bil. ? and the last week, is it still 1.25 bil. for a 1 bil. loan or is it 1.025 bil. as the last payment? and about a risp loan, do we have to pay all at once when we got enough money or can we pay from time to time to reduce the loan and the amount of interests that need to be paid each week? ex: i make a risp loan of 10 bil. on 3rd week, (after 2 payment of 350 mil.) i'm able to reimburse 2 bil. from the loan, to reduce it to 8 bil. instead of 10 and to reduce weekly interests to 280 mil. instead of 350 mil., can i do it? also, how do you rate the market value of the t2 bpo? and do we have to move the bpo to a specific location or would you produce from them at our location? does the interests are adjusted to the remaining loan when we do a rifl loan? No. Its excactly the same amount each week. And yes - I'm aware this is not how it's done in RL, but we are trying to keep it really simple here. ( But yes we could do it that way - The effect however would be that the initial payments would be larger than they are today, and ofc the lasts ones smaller. The end effect beeing that the total cost of the loan would remain the same. This is infact how it's calculated in RL. ) and about a risp loan, do we have to pay all at once when we got enough money or can we pay from time to time to reduce the loan and the amount of interests that need to be paid each week? Yes you have to pay all at once - once you got the ISK together. The option of paying from time to time to reduce the loan, is actually what the RIFL loan is all about - and can not be done with the RISP loan. BIG Lottery [u
Baun	Posted - 2006.04.15 18:08:00 - [14] Originally by: TornSoul Also - You wont expect anyone to do that kinda work for free right? - So that leaves the problem of putting (a fair) value on that work. Nasty one really... (I sure dont know how) You are getting half the profits from doing it (more actually since BIG owns some stock). Quote: Also - It would mean that BIG would have to front the ISK for the materials needed to build the item (this could be rather substantial if this takes of). Why would we want to tie down BIGs ISK in such an operation? Sure, we could get some compensation for doing so, but again, nasty one figuring out how to do so fairly. Pretty easy to determine which BPOs are worth producing from and which aren't. Those that are can draw upon bank capital. The Enemy's Gate is Down
TornSoul	Posted - 2006.04.15 18:38:00 - [15] Originally by: Baun Originally by: TornSoul Also - You wont expect anyone to do that kinda work for free right? - So that leaves the problem of putting (a fair) value on that work. Nasty one really... (I sure dont know how) You are getting half the profits from doing it (more actually since BIG owns some stock). As do the shareholders, for doing no extra work at all. I dont find that completly fair Hence the need for putting a value on this work. Originally by: Baun Quote: Also - It would mean that BIG would have to front the ISK for the materials needed to build the item (this could be rather substantial if this takes of). Why would we want to tie down BIGs ISK in such an operation? Sure, we could get some compensation for doing so, but again, nasty one figuring out how to do so fairly. Pretty easy to determine which BPOs are worth producing from and which aren't. Those that are can draw upon bank capital. I'm not sure about 'pretty easy' - But yes, in most cases. But digging into the BMBE capital to front ISK for materails, is uhm.. a bit outside the current charter. But yes - That could be a solution I guess. The majority shareholders would probably not disagree to this. I'll consider that "one down" - Still leaves the other point. BIG Lottery [u
Baun	Posted - 2006.04.15 19:05:00 - [16] Originally by: TornSoul Originally by: Baun Originally by: TornSoul Also - You wont expect anyone to do that kinda work for free right? - So that leaves the problem of putting (a fair) value on that work. Nasty one really... (I sure dont know how) You are getting half the profits from doing it (more actually since BIG owns some stock). As do the shareholders, for doing no extra work at all. I dont find that completly fair Hence the need for putting a value on this work. Thats what 50% of the profits are for, managing the bank's assets. If this means producing from a T2 BPO that isn't being used actively then thats what it means. The shareholders get 50% of the profit because they put up the money. The Enemy's Gate is Down
TornSoul	Posted - 2006.04.15 20:01:00 - [17] Originally by: Baun Thats what 50% of the profits are for, managing the bank's assets. If this means producing from a T2 BPO that isn't being used actively then thats what it means. The shareholders get 50% of the profit because they put up the money. First of : Shareholders are promised dividend based on ISK made from interest on loans (and potentially profit made from selling of security on defaulted loans) Thats it. Secondly : The deal brokered between BMBE and BIG regarding producing items from BPO's put up as security, is such that BIG will only produce if the materials are provided by the BPO owner. BIG really dont care about the BPO's where the BMBE client isnt providing materials to build. As they are not part of the deal. What the BMBE does with these, is none of BIG's business. (and no need to point out just how highly academic the above is. It still holds regardless. The BMBE and BIG are two logically and economically seperate entities.) The reason for the deal between the BMBE and BIG in the first place, is to accomodate the clients of the BMBE - Not the shareholders. As very few clients would otherwise be willing to put up their BPO's as security - and loose out on the profit they could otherwise make with these. Thus as a 'sideeffect' the shareholders end up benefitting anyhow - As this opens up for more loans made, and thus more profit made on interest - And thus more dividend to be paid out. Ie. the shareholders end up benefitting regardless if the BPO is kept in production or not. Whether the BPO is kept in production is really a client concern, and not a shareholder concern. Now, if the BMBE where willing(able) to find someone to produce of the BPO's which the client do not wish to deliver materials for - Then the BMBE indeed has an added oppertunity (and responsability) to secure extra profit, and thus extra dividend for the shareholders. So the task for the BMBE in managing the assets of the BMBE, is to try and find a trusted 3rd party that would do just that - Ie. produce of the 'inactive' BPO's. Now, if anyone know of anyone that, for free, would - Produce of the BPO's, - Collect the needed materials to do this - Hand over the finished product to the BMBE (so the BMBE can sell it and make a profit). Please let me know - The BMBE is eager to take advantage of this altruism to increase shareholder profit. I can tell you that BIG is not that 3rd party. And I'd be willing to bet, theres no others either (unless they plan to run of with the BPO's....) But, "for a price" (less than the profit to be made from selling the finished items ofc, so that the BMBE would still make a profit) I'm sure it would be possible to find a suitable 3rd party candidate. Maybe even BIG. BIG Lottery [u
Baun	Posted - 2006.04.15 20:20:00 - [18] Originally by: TornSoul Ie. the shareholders end up benefitting regardless if the BPO is kept in production or not. Whether the BPO is kept in production is really a client concern, and not a shareholder concern. Not really true. If the BMBE holds a BPO as security then effectively the shareholders are holding that BPO as security. That means if the BPO is not being efficiently utlizied the shareholders assets are not being efficiently utilized. Quote: Now, if the BMBE where willing(able) to find someone to produce of the BPO's which the client do not wish to deliver materials for - Then the BMBE indeed has an added oppertunity (and responsability) to secure extra profit, and thus extra dividend for the shareholders. Thats the thing. If the T2 BPOs are good ones then it should be an absolute no brainer to produce from them if the client doesn't have the capital to fund production. Farming that production out is just a waste of money on a middle man. Quote: So the task for the BMBE in managing the assets of the BMBE, is to try and find a trusted 3rd party that would do just that - Ie. produce of the 'inactive' BPO's. I understand you want to make clear that the BMBE is separate from BIG but the natural connecton is still there. Farming out to a third party over which you have less price control is just dumb. Quote: Now, if anyone know of anyone that, for free, would - Produce of the BPO's, - Collect the needed materials to do this - Hand over the finished product to the BMBE (so the BMBE can sell it and make a profit). Again no reason the bank couldn't do this itself other than the fact that nashi's alt is the only char in the corporation. BIG people ARE BMBE employees so its not unreasonable to expect BIG people to produce the BPOs USING BANK CAPITAL and pass half the profits onto the shareholders. Quote: I can tell you that BIG is not that 3rd party. And I'd be willing to bet, theres no others either (unless they plan to run of with the BPO's....) The concept of doing it for free is just disingenuous since the BMBE is making 50% off the profits anyway Quote: But, "for a price" (less than the profit to be made from selling the finished items ofc, so that the BMBE would still make a profit) I'm sure it would be possible to find a suitable 3rd party candidate. Maybe even BIG. That price is 50% off the profits. The BMBE profits go to the people who manage it. ALL of those people are in BIG so the separation you trying to draw just doesn't exist. The Enemy's Gate is Down
TornSoul	Posted - 2006.04.15 21:15:00 - [19] Edited by: TornSoul on 15/04/2006 21:15:45 Originally by: Baun That price is 50% off the profits. The BMBE profits go to the people who manage it. ALL of those people are in BIG so the separation you trying to draw just doesn't exist. You and I can go on forever on this one Baun - I know from experience I'll leave it at us disagreeing on the extend of seperation there exists between BMBE and BIG. And regardless all points made - There's still the issue of me beeing unable to gurantee that BIG would have the manpower to do this. BIG Lottery [u
Callan Skiderlar	Posted - 2006.04.15 22:07:00 - [20] Re: T2 production, why dip into BIG's capital? Assuming not all of BMBE's cash is tied up in loans (which it sounds like it could be), and assuming BIG accepted the components as collateral, shareholders (or anyone else) could use the BPO's production components as collateral and take out a loan. BIG can produce the items using the collateral with prior approval and charges some premium to do so that's tacked on to the loan amount. When the customer pays off the loan, they get the completed goods back. All BIG has to do is the production runs, assuming customers bring the components to the destination of BIG's choosing. No mixed capital, no rounding up production goods, no selling the gear, and an extra little bump in income for shareholders and BIG divvied up in whatever way both parties agree. One problem (of many still to be solved) is the BPO owner can't pay off the loan at any time and would have to give advance notice. BIG also could not do any production runs longer than the advance notice window on the print. Might be more complicated than it's worth, but then again if you could figure out an easy-ish system, that might help returns quite a bit. --- Selling: Naglfars: 1.938B.........Phoenix: 1.888B 280 Arty IIs: 550k ......Wasp IIs: 525k Improved cloaks: 21M.....Wrath Prec: 1100 ea.

Dhan	Posted - 2006.04.15 22:22:00 - [21] I'm going to have to agree with Torn on this one. BMBE has manpower to handle the evaluating assets/advertising the bank/managing payments but not T2 production. Handling the production will require outsourcing the work to a 3rd party, which will require a % of the profits. And this outsourcing has to be done in such a way that the chance of BPO theft is.......0. Provided that a % of profits is provided for this material + charater skill limitation + labslot handling + market transporting + sales + miscellaneous other related expenses, it sounds doable. I applaud the continued efforts on the BMBE side for figuring out how to make the bank better, and really, how to make this work. Originally by: TornSoul Edited by: TornSoul on 15/04/2006 21:15:45 Originally by: Baun That price is 50% off the profits. The BMBE profits go to the people who manage it. ALL of those people are in BIG so the separation you trying to draw just doesn't exist. You and I can go on forever on this one Baun - I know from experience I'll leave it at us disagreeing on the extend of seperation there exists between BMBE and BIG. And regardless all points made - There's still the issue of me beeing unable to gurantee that BIG would have the manpower to do this.
IonHammer	Posted - 2006.04.16 04:43:00 - [22] Nice work Torn I am whipping my mining slaves to gather up isk if another IPO comes off the ground, nice to see you have adapted the initial plan to adjust for what customers really need. GL
Exelsior	Posted - 2006.04.16 08:10:00 - [23] Originally by: IonHammer Nice work Torn I am whipping my mining slaves to gather up isk if another IPO comes off the ground, nice to see you have adapted the initial plan to adjust for what customers really need. GL Indeed, i am now a happy shareowner By the way i just had to say, that is an amazing sig! ------------------------- Thou shalt be dispatched. Originally by: Tuxford Yes we don't play on our main accounts simply because you would lose all respect for us
Kasibee'an	Posted - 2006.04.16 15:58:00 - [24] Because I'm a greedy git I just want to ask that any new IPO's are offered to current shareholders first
Alkad Mzu	Posted - 2006.04.17 19:02:00 - [25] As a shareholder, I expect any extension of the IPO to be carried out in the form of a private equity offer to existing shareholders. Furthermore, in light of the adjustments to the business plan, I for one would apreciate a pro-active approach to the issue of extending the initial 3 months you have given the project to prove it's worth. In other words, I have every faith we'll see profit from this baby, but you need to address the timeframe issue sooner rather than later. :-) Will sing for funny sig
Callie Nefarious	Posted - 2006.04.18 11:25:00 - [26] I'd do as Mzu says, dotn want her unleashing her nuetronium alchemist on ya hehe ;). I as a shareholder also have to agree that id like to see any expansion offered to existing shareholders first. And a reasonable time period for those of us not that wealthy to build up soem more capitol. Also I agree with the changes in business plan, that we need a extension of the inital 3 months. Id say at least a further 3 months.
TornSoul	Posted - 2006.04.18 16:30:00 - [27] Originally by: Callie Nefarious I'd do as Mzu says, dotn want her unleashing her nuetronium alchemist on ya hehe ;). Nothing the Naked God cant handle Originally by: Callie Nefarious I as a shareholder also have to agree that id like to see any expansion offered to existing shareholders first. Will be done - To the extend it's possible (some shares have changed hands etc) Originally by: Callie Nefarious And a reasonable time period for those of us not that wealthy to build up soem more capitol. Start saving like .. right now. Originally by: Callie Nefarious Also I agree with the changes in business plan, that we need a extension of the inital 3 months. Id say at least a further 3 months. More on this starting next month. BIG Lottery [u
IonHammer	Posted - 2006.04.19 04:35:00 - [28] Originally by: Exelsior By the way i just had to say, that is an amazing sig! cheers mate i will let the guy who did it know i sure hell will be chuffed.
Splagada	Posted - 2006.04.19 15:35:00 - [29] do you sell bank shares? - Member of [AAST]
Henry Fredyericus	Posted - 2006.04.20 14:59:00 - [30] Originally by: Splagada do you sell bank shares? BMBE bank shares seem to be noted at the Eve Galactic Stock Exchange - EGSE The EGSE IGB link: http://eve.hubau.be/ So that is a good place to check out the shares availability

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.