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Takanuro
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
105
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 11:09:00 -
[31] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Colt Blackhawk wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:and you dont think we get cloaked stabbed amarr farmers round our way?
I really dont understand the gals over ur way tho theres plenty of farm ground here and were at a ****** tier too I can explain it: Not gals are farming the amarr/mintard fw zone. All these gals are minnie alts. They never learned howto fight for a warzone. They are not relying on farmers. They ARE the farmers. Minmatar militia is only casual wannabe pvp. Mainly they are farmers and carebears grinding isk. Still doesnt explain them using gal alts with our tier And please dont say that amarr arnt farmers too with there high tier all u see over there is plexers and mission farmers funny how everything looks different through ur rose tinted specs
Jita SFI Sell: 59 Mil. Jita VNI Sell: 107mil.
You do the Math! Yes, we're going to die, but you're coming with us!
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Colt Blackhawk
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
267
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 11:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Colt Blackhawk wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:and you dont think we get cloaked stabbed amarr farmers round our way?
I really dont understand the gals over ur way tho theres plenty of farm ground here and were at a ****** tier too I can explain it: Not gals are farming the amarr/mintard fw zone. All these gals are minnie alts. They never learned howto fight for a warzone. They are not relying on farmers. They ARE the farmers. Minmatar militia is only casual wannabe pvp. Mainly they are farmers and carebears grinding isk. Still doesnt explain them using gal alts with our tier And please dont say that amarr arnt farmers too with there high tier all u see over there is plexers and mission farmers funny how everything looks different through ur rose tinted specs
Yeah we are all farmers too^^ Thats why we didn-¦t go tier4 already weeks ago because we didn-¦t bust the bunkers. But yeah we are farmers that didn-¦t want iter4. [09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks. |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
324
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 11:30:00 -
[33] - Quote
i see if its not ur point its a wrong point ey colt..
what im saying is that all races have farmers no race is a specific farmer race cos as soon as tiers rise more people dogpile the situation .
you have just as many farmers as the other races. You also forget u recently had a t4 before it swung back a little do you even read what u write before u press post? GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Colt Blackhawk
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
267
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 12:56:00 -
[34] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:i see if its not ur point its a wrong point ey colt..
what im saying is that all races have farmers no race is a specific farmer race cos as soon as tiers rise more people dogpile the situation .
you have just as many farmers as the other races. You also forget u recently had a t4 before it swung back a little do you even read what u write before u press post?
Gratz. You have proved that you have no clue what you are writing about. Minnies were Tier4. Then amarr went tier 3 with maybe 10 systems left on vulnerable state. No one busted these bunkers to go tier4. Amarr olyl did fight for home systems like Bos and Eszur (to kick minnie butt) but didn-¦t like to go tier4. Minnies would have already been in carebear bomber tier4 mode as always.... But we didn-¦t care. And tbh most of us are tired "fighting" a carebear blob militia so actually most of us absolutely don-¦t care. [09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks. |
Epikurus
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
14
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Posted - 2014.02.23 13:52:00 -
[35] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Epikurus wrote:It's worth bearing in mind that the farming dynamic helps keep FW balanced and swinging from one side to another. Things would get a bit boring if one side could dominate permanently and the fact that there is a good reason for the farmers to switch sides periodically helps keep the playground fresh and helps avoid the kind of torpor we see in null. Timer rollbacks for home system defence (make it a bit easier), but it will do nothing for farming the hinterlands because people will still get bored to tears chasing stabbed alts. Which is how it ought to be. My guess is that CCP views FW as a huge isk sink for the overall economy and is afraid to adjust anything about it that will affect that sink. Otherwise they would have implemented timer rollbacks already. We should all vote for a CSM who campaigns on a platform that includes Timer Rollbacks.
It's more likely because timer rollbacks are a terrible idea that favour the defender far too much
Dual timers and a first past the post system would address many of the concerns rollbacks are trying to fix but without making things too unbalanced. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2065
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 14:46:00 -
[36] - Quote
Epikurus wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Epikurus wrote:It's worth bearing in mind that the farming dynamic helps keep FW balanced and swinging from one side to another. Things would get a bit boring if one side could dominate permanently and the fact that there is a good reason for the farmers to switch sides periodically helps keep the playground fresh and helps avoid the kind of torpor we see in null. Timer rollbacks for home system defence (make it a bit easier), but it will do nothing for farming the hinterlands because people will still get bored to tears chasing stabbed alts. Which is how it ought to be. My guess is that CCP views FW as a huge isk sink for the overall economy and is afraid to adjust anything about it that will affect that sink. Otherwise they would have implemented timer rollbacks already. We should all vote for a CSM who campaigns on a platform that includes Timer Rollbacks. It's more likely because timer rollbacks are a terrible idea that favour the defender far too much Dual timers and a first past the post system would address many of the concerns rollbacks are trying to fix but without making things too unbalanced. Whatever. CCP should address the farming issue at some point and ought to be considering more than just Timer Rollbacks and Dual Timer proposals. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2469
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 15:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
Epikurus wrote:It's more likely because timer rollbacks are a terrible idea that favour the defender far too much lol. Sounds dangerous. It could even lead to explosions. Lets make plexes instanced where only one ship can enter at the same time and everybody can farm side by side without interruptions, perfectly balanced for both sides. No need to dscan or to press the cloak button. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1528
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 15:34:00 -
[38] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:and you dont think we get cloaked stabbed amarr farmers round our way?
I really dont understand the gals over ur way tho theres plenty of farm ground here and were at a ****** tier too
The cross-militia farmer alts aren't the worry. His behavior was. I'm stating it here so if anyone else notices the same things -
not leaving the plex when it's clear I'm going to run it till it closes. decloaked immediately upon me leaving the plex. Warping to short on the next plex even though that is exactly where I went.
In short I'm highly suspicious I came across a bot. There are quite a few Amarr plexes to run right now. He did have a target rich environment. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1528
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 15:38:00 -
[39] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:To stop or benefit from the farming we just need a simple FW ESS :)
Either they come out with their main and fight your (That is what we want) or we get a 20% of their lp (which also is nice)
Win-win
I've heard this proposed a couple of different ways. Bubbles inside the plexes would be bad. It penalizes brawler setups and would cause all kind of pod loss rage. Bubbles in low sec are bad.
The alternative - a system wide FW ESS would be a pirate paradise. Most corps are lucky if they can throw 7 people together outside of a home system. Against a 20 man roam? Not going to happen. |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
324
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 16:08:00 -
[40] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:i see if its not ur point its a wrong point ey colt..
what im saying is that all races have farmers no race is a specific farmer race cos as soon as tiers rise more people dogpile the situation .
you have just as many farmers as the other races. You also forget u recently had a t4 before it swung back a little do you even read what u write before u press post? Gratz. You have proved that you have no clue what you are writing about. Minnies were Tier4. Then amarr went tier 3 with maybe 10 systems left on vulnerable state. No one busted these bunkers to go tier4. Amarr olyl did fight for home systems like Bos and Eszur (to kick minnie butt) but didn-¦t like to go tier4. Minnies would have already been in carebear bomber tier4 mode as always.... But we didn-¦t care. And tbh most of us are tired "fighting" a carebear blob militia so actually most of us absolutely don-¦t care.
Did i not say u guys had t4 before minnies swung it back a little think u need to clean those reading glasses there colt GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
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Epikurus
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
15
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Posted - 2014.02.23 16:34:00 -
[41] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:Epikurus wrote:It's more likely because timer rollbacks are a terrible idea that favour the defender far too much lol. Sounds dangerous. It could even lead to explosions. Lets make plexes instanced where only one ship can enter at the same time and everybody can farm side by side without interruptions, perfectly balanced for both sides. No need to dscan or to press the cloak button.
Have no idea what you are talking about. Why do you equate criticism of an unbalanced suggested change with any of the situations you describe? |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
690
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 16:47:00 -
[42] - Quote
there is lot of different tactics to catch cloaky stabbed farmers so i do not see any problem. |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
91
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 17:18:00 -
[43] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:there is lot of different tactics to catch cloaky stabbed farmers so i do not see any problem.
I hate having to agree with a squid, but I agree with this.
Cloaks and Stabs are evasion tools, and are working as intended. If you want to catch them, there are a multitude of counters:
- Multiple Scrams (particularly with links)
- Sitting in a plex with a double-scram Astero
- Sitting in a plex in an anti-frig Stealth Bomber
- Keres
- Possible smart bombs
- Etc etc etc
Now, low SP alts running plexes - also working as intended. The plex rats are designed to be weak enough that low SP characters have a good chance to kill it, while not hitting hard enough to make them overpowered against a low SP tank. This is done to make them accessible to newbies.
Changing the rats to be harder to kill won't fix the problem. A majority of the stabbed cloaky farmers you see are in fact alts of higher SP PvPers. In fact, in several cases a high SP main will blow through a couple systems killing plex rats, so their unfitted zero SP alt can run down the timers. That way, the PvPer gains passive income while being able to continue roaming on his main.
Finally, low SP farmer alts are not an issue with regards to system control. They can't kill a PvP kitted frigate, let alone destroyer or higher. System control of non-hub / base systems isn't an issue unless you're going for warzone control / higher tiers.
Want to keep them out of your home system plexes? Park your own alt in there. They won't come in, and if they do they have to close range with your alt. Who will be in a position to slap down multiple scrams and kill them. Problem solved.
Want to keep them out of outsystem plexes? Patrol more often, and run down the plexes with your own alts. This is also a great way to get general militia folks out and about pushing warzone control.
Seriously - can we stop the whining? |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
286
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 17:31:00 -
[44] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Colt Blackhawk wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:i see if its not ur point its a wrong point ey colt..
what im saying is that all races have farmers no race is a specific farmer race cos as soon as tiers rise more people dogpile the situation .
you have just as many farmers as the other races. You also forget u recently had a t4 before it swung back a little do you even read what u write before u press post? Gratz. You have proved that you have no clue what you are writing about. Minnies were Tier4. Then amarr went tier 3 with maybe 10 systems left on vulnerable state. No one busted these bunkers to go tier4. Amarr olyl did fight for home systems like Bos and Eszur (to kick minnie butt) but didn-¦t like to go tier4. Minnies would have already been in carebear bomber tier4 mode as always.... But we didn-¦t care. And tbh most of us are tired "fighting" a carebear blob militia so actually most of us absolutely don-¦t care. Did i not say u guys had t4 before minnies swung it back a little think u need to clean those reading glasses there colt wrong. this current tier3 that amarr have. the amarr havent gone tier 4.
we havent flipped enough system to go tier 4 yet.
it seems at least on amarr/minnie front nobody is caring about bunker busting anymore. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2066
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 17:31:00 -
[45] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:there is lot of different tactics to catch cloaky stabbed farmers so i do not see any problem. I hate having to agree with a squid, but I agree with this. ... Seriously - can we stop the whining? The real problem with whining about afk plexing alts is that it takes focus off of what is great about FW. There are TONS of fights happening all over the FW map every single day. And if you're in FW for the PvP, and that's what 95% of the FW players claim they want out of FW, then times have never been better.
The thing about upgrades, etc..., the reason people get upset is that they reward everybody - including noncontributors - and not just the people who participate in them. The best function for upgrades is to use them to gain system control (bribing the alts to plex for your side in all the areas that don't contain much PvP), and for "burst" LP accumulation.
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Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
690
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 17:38:00 -
[46] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Veskrashen wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:there is lot of different tactics to catch cloaky stabbed farmers so i do not see any problem. I hate having to agree with a squid, but I agree with this. ... Seriously - can we stop the whining? The real problem with whining about afk plexing alts is that it takes focus off of what is great about FW. There are TONS of fights happening all over the FW map every single day. And if you're in FW for the PvP, and that's what 95% of the FW players claim they want out of FW, then times have never been better. The thing about upgrades, etc..., the reason people get upset is that they reward everybody - including noncontributors - and not just the people who participate in them. The best function for upgrades is to use them to gain system control (bribing the alts to plex for your side in all the areas that don't contain much PvP), and for "burst" LP accumulation.
It is not problem that mechanics forces you to split pvp guys all over area if you want to maintain tier without lot of lp dumping every day.
Gallente / Caldari area is so small that 50 guys with alts can prevent all alt lp farming if they want. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2066
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 17:54:00 -
[47] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:It is not problem that mechanics forces you to split pvp guys all over area if you want to maintain tier without lot of lp dumping every day.
Gallente / Caldari area is so small that 50 guys with alts can prevent all alt lp farming if they want. They can, but running out to a backwater system to chase a guy not interested in a fight is boring as hell.
Anyways, I have nothing against guys accumulating wealth in areas I never visit anyways. Not a problem for me. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1528
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 18:55:00 -
[48] - Quote
What is really amusing about these threads is that Amarr and Minmatar seem to be getting on the same page that the system is not 'all right.' There are various threads started by either side asking for changes. According to Samurai Pizza Cats, Justified Chaos, and Bad Messenger though everything is hunky dory over on the Gallente/ Caldari war zone. Why is that?
More connections to nullsec spice things up? Larger war zone dilutes the farmers/ Tier swings? |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2067
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:16:00 -
[49] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:What is really amusing about these threads is that Amarr and Minmatar seem to be getting on the same page that the system is not 'all right.' There are various threads started by either side asking for changes. According to Samurai Pizza Cats, Justified Chaos, and Bad Messenger though everything is hunky dory over on the Gallente/ Caldari war zone. Why is that?
More connections to nullsec spice things up? Larger war zone dilutes the farmers/ Tier swings? Enough players on both sides deciding actually live in the warzone and fight for occupancy. You tend to undock and defend your home when you have something to lose (when somebody decides to try to take it). Result: Massive levels of pvp that are unheard of in this game.
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
324
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:22:00 -
[50] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Colt Blackhawk wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:i see if its not ur point its a wrong point ey colt..
what im saying is that all races have farmers no race is a specific farmer race cos as soon as tiers rise more people dogpile the situation .
you have just as many farmers as the other races. You also forget u recently had a t4 before it swung back a little do you even read what u write before u press post? Gratz. You have proved that you have no clue what you are writing about. Minnies were Tier4. Then amarr went tier 3 with maybe 10 systems left on vulnerable state. No one busted these bunkers to go tier4. Amarr olyl did fight for home systems like Bos and Eszur (to kick minnie butt) but didn-¦t like to go tier4. Minnies would have already been in carebear bomber tier4 mode as always.... But we didn-¦t care. And tbh most of us are tired "fighting" a carebear blob militia so actually most of us absolutely don-¦t care. Did i not say u guys had t4 before minnies swung it back a little think u need to clean those reading glasses there colt wrong. this current tier3 that amarr have. the amarr havent gone tier 4. we havent flipped enough system to go tier 4 yet. it seems at least on amarr/minnie front nobody is caring about bunker busting anymore.
im on about before minnie hit 4 u had the higher tier then warzone swung lol my alt was making lps over there so i know how the WZ swung
GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
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Garric Shadowbane
The Imperial LansDrahd LOADED-DICE
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:26:00 -
[51] - Quote
Let all systems go vuln, dont flip em. and it will suck for the farmers :D |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2067
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 20:04:00 -
[52] - Quote
Garric Shadowbane wrote:Let all systems go vuln, dont flip em. and it will suck for the farmers :D Why? They will just defensive plex.
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Garric Shadowbane
The Imperial LansDrahd LOADED-DICE
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 05:55:00 -
[53] - Quote
BUMPING FOR JUSTICE.
FIX THIS CCP |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
691
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 10:49:00 -
[54] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:What is really amusing about these threads is that Amarr and Minmatar seem to be getting on the same page that the system is not 'all right.' There are various threads started by either side asking for changes. According to Samurai Pizza Cats, Justified Chaos, and Bad Messenger though everything is hunky dory over on the Gallente/ Caldari war zone. Why is that?
More connections to nullsec spice things up? Larger war zone dilutes the farmers/ Tier swings?
maybe we have different goals, i do not care much about fights in EVE, but bring stabbed cloacky frigate to my system and i might accept the challenge. |
David Devant
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
146
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 13:32:00 -
[55] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:What is really amusing about these threads is that Amarr and Minmatar seem to be getting on the same page that the system is not 'all right.' There are various threads started by either side asking for changes. According to Samurai Pizza Cats, Justified Chaos, and Bad Messenger though everything is hunky dory over on the Gallente/ Caldari war zone. Why is that?
More connections to nullsec spice things up? Larger war zone dilutes the farmers/ Tier swings? maybe we have different goals, i do not care much about fights in EVE, but bring stabbed cloacky frigate to my system and i might accept the challenge.
Says it all.
I am not interested in cool spaceship battles. However, give me the opportunity to do something mindless and dull for a longer period of time than some other internet auteur and I'm breaking out the Kleenex.
Change the record, it's cracked. |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
92
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 14:34:00 -
[56] - Quote
Garric Shadowbane wrote:BUMPING FOR JUSTICE.
FIX THIS CCP
Exactly what needs fixed? Stabs and cloaks are evasion tools, plexes are designed to be run by low SP characters. Seems to be working as intended to me.
Now, if you want to talk inter-faction L4 mission balance, and the attendant impact on general farmer population, I'm definitely in agreement that something should be done. |
Irsam Samri
TROLL PATROL WINMATAR.
44
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 15:31:00 -
[57] - Quote
Problem with the less dedicated than a stabbed farmer argument is that some of them ARE bots, its easier to write a script for FW farming than it is for mining. I also did it without hitting and pulled in 40 mil an hour per account even while being chased, the thing is, they can chse you out of the medium, you just go to the small, while they catch up you get 1 minute on the small timer, if they show up to chase you out of the small then goto the medium again and time it down a minute while they catch up, if they bring 2 people then goto the novice, if they bring 3 people just hop a system over and try there, or just wait cloaked for 15 minutes till they get bored, you are an alt after all, you have 4 more accounts farming elsewhere you can manage.
having been a farmer and making many billions of isk, I still hate the system. My dream is that fw timers would be increased depending on how many people are close to the button with diminishing stacking returns like a ship mod, so for example if the second person on a button would give an 87.5% increase to capture speed.
I dunno, as evidence by the agreement among the factions here, everyone knows its broken and pretty much understands its farming warfare, and individuals have no effect on warzone control. |
Garric Shadowbane
The Imperial LansDrahd LOADED-DICE
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 15:44:00 -
[58] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:Garric Shadowbane wrote:BUMPING FOR JUSTICE.
FIX THIS CCP Exactly what needs fixed? Stabs and cloaks are evasion tools, plexes are designed to be run by low SP characters. Seems to be working as intended to me. Now, if you want to talk inter-faction L4 mission balance, and the attendant impact on general farmer population, I'm definitely in agreement that something should be done.
What you are saying I completely agree with. LOW sp plexes and evasion tactics are working perfectly.
What I am talking about is the BOT's... I will have to post a video on how the operate. They are 100% DSCAN oriented. if they see you within range. They will immediately cloak up.
But, all we do is bring an astero into the site and cloak up also... And you know what... They uncloak! What kind of normal player would uncloak after just seeing an astero come in and cloak himself? We then slowboat to it and dual scram them. Now its not just one person, its the 4 constant 2 week old gallente alts hitting my amarr system 23/7. (russian by ship name).
Now, I've seen 2 proposals.
1. is timer rollbacks, while this might be effective I don't think it solves are cloak problem as people will get bored and allow the bots to continue hitting the plex.
2. Is the investment Idea.
Making it so that you have to pay 25% of plex's returns to just open the site in space. What does this do? It' adds value to the plex. Making people willing to stay and defend the plex since they invested into it. |
Shadow Adanza
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
169
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 16:23:00 -
[59] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:What is really amusing about these threads is that Amarr and Minmatar seem to be getting on the same page that the system is not 'all right.' There are various threads started by either side asking for changes. According to Samurai Pizza Cats, Justified Chaos, and Bad Messenger though everything is hunky dory over on the Gallente/ Caldari war zone. Why is that?
More connections to nullsec spice things up? Larger war zone dilutes the farmers/ Tier swings? I don't like that the system rewards cowardice and that I have to spend time chasing stabbed cloaky alt after stabbed cloaky alt out of my home system. I have enough warp core stabs from loot to fit the entire warzone twice over. But it's a system we can't change ourselves, so why complain about it? Are you suggesting coconuts migrate? |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
92
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 16:54:00 -
[60] - Quote
Garric Shadowbane wrote: What I am talking about is the BOT's... I will have to post a video on how the operate. They are 100% DSCAN oriented. if they see you within range. They will immediately cloak up.
But, all we do is bring an astero into the site and cloak up also... And you know what... They uncloak! What kind of normal player would uncloak after just seeing an astero come in and cloak himself? We then slowboat to it and dual scram them. Now its not just one person, its the 4 constant 2 week old gallente alts hitting my amarr system 23/7. (russian by ship name).
I haven't seen this in our part of the warzone (around the Eha / Vlillirier area), but if that's the case it's rather disturbing indeed. Have you petitioned them for botting? I'm sure that several folks would be interested in any video you could provide. |
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