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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2084
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Posted - 2014.03.04 21:17:00 -
[151] - Quote
I was never really able to get fights in 80-85% of the systems no matter what the plexing mechanics were. That part of FW isn't going to change. You go to where the other side lives and you get fights.
However, yes, reducing the effectiveness of the afk farming alts will go a long way towards allowing smaller groups to colonize less populated areas. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2476
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Posted - 2014.03.04 21:38:00 -
[152] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:I was never really able to get fights in 80-85% of the systems no matter what the plexing mechanics were. That part of FW isn't going to change. You go to where the other side lives and you get fights.
However, yes, reducing the effectiveness of the afk farming alts will go a long way towards allowing smaller groups to colonize less populated areas.
right. plexing never functioned since CCP didn't fix the root cause of the problem, they patched the symptoms.
CCP saw that vigils are kiting NPCs while running down timers, CCP changed it so you have to kill the NPCs. CCP saw that people now fit a gun on the T1 frig and still run down the timer 70km away from the warpin, ccp moved the warpin cloaser to the beacon. now what? forbid stabbs and cloaks? It would still not fix the root cause, since nothing has been fixed in the first place.
Running would remain more efficient than defending your progress and staying in the plex. The fix are timer resets. CCP could literally revert all FW mechanics back to pre inferno and implement timer resets on top of it and plexing would be largely fixed. And people saying, please come to the 5 systems would still be right (but off topic). eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Julius Foederatus
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
223
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Posted - 2014.03.04 22:19:00 -
[153] - Quote
You know the more I ponder it, the more it seems like a good idea. What do you all think of actually making FW LP payout the same as Incursion LP payout? In other words, you get no LP for offensive plexing until that system's IHUB has been bashed. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2084
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 22:28:00 -
[154] - Quote
Julius Foederatus wrote:You know the more I ponder it, the more it seems like a good idea. What do you all think of actually making FW LP payout the same as Incursion LP payout? In other words, you get no LP for offensive plexing until that system's IHUB has been bashed. Honestly whatever system is implemented... I'll adjust.
However, can't you already hear the whines of the unpaid defensive plexers in the distance? |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
105
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Posted - 2014.03.04 23:23:00 -
[155] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Julius Foederatus wrote:You know the more I ponder it, the more it seems like a good idea. What do you all think of actually making FW LP payout the same as Incursion LP payout? In other words, you get no LP for offensive plexing until that system's IHUB has been bashed. Honestly whatever system is implemented... I'll adjust. However, can't you already hear the whines of the unpaid defensive plexers in the distance? "Please, sir, won't you flip the hub?"
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IbanezLaney
the church of awesome Caldari State Capturing
988
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 02:00:00 -
[156] - Quote
I have noticed many people think changing NPCs or adding more of them is a 'fix'
The one thing we don't want is harder or more NPCs used to stop the farmers. That was the biggest factor that discouraged pvp under the old system.
A WT would appear on short and you had just leave as tanking the WT and a heap of NPCs was just not possible. More non player content is never the answer or a 'fix'.
I like the fights the current system brings.
The only issues are non covert cloaks and warp stabs. They are only used by people who do not want to properly participate in the war.
Covert Cloaks are fine - People who fly ships that use them are there to pvp from my experience.
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
881
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Posted - 2014.03.05 04:52:00 -
[157] - Quote
Very simple fix for FW farming.
Timers reset to 'neutral' within 30 seconds of the plex being left by the person running it down.
After all why would your guys who you've just come in to defend wait 15+mins to reset their operation back to normal.
So simple scenario would be.:
Farmer runs novice plex down. You enter plex and farmer either cloaks up or warps off. 30s later the timer 'resets' to neutral and you start running the 10 min timer down for d-plexing.
Simple. This would then mean that if you want the LP for plexing you need to stay there and defend it! The FW players who actively participate in FW will get their rewards as this is how they generally operate. The farmers can still farm but anyone can easily screw with thier LP rates by forcing them out of the plex.
You'd get a slight buff to D-plexing a system in terms of time required but probably won't make a great difference. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
167
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Posted - 2014.03.05 05:11:00 -
[158] - Quote
may i post something here, have you talked about changin the mechanics completelly?, wouldnt the orbit a button thing be the fundamental problem or something?, like for example, make FW plexes combat related, instead of running around a button you have to destroy an structure or something i guess there are plexes like this already, and make more sense than the plexes you're speaking of......the amount of LP would be fixed and would obligue the player to kill all the NPCs along with the structure, each structure destroyed sums to the conquest.... |
Colt Blackhawk
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
273
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Posted - 2014.03.05 07:25:00 -
[159] - Quote
Honestly. Fw is dead like hell. It has become pure farming party. Nothing else. Amarr got on T4 yesterday. I see whole quadbox tengu corps and triplebox bomber squads everywhere. Farmers, farmers, farmers, farmers, lp, lp, lp, lp.... This **** is broken like hell. Really. [09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks. |
Danny John-Peter
Snuff Box
410
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Posted - 2014.03.05 08:55:00 -
[160] - Quote
I don't know much about the mission side of things but I was thinking about a way of improving the Plexing system and I had a thought, could beacons be given EHP, be destructable, not much EHP either say 10-15K for a Novice/Small, 30K for a Medium and 60-70K for a Large.
This would mean that anybody could come into your plex and remove it, preventing you from acquiring the LP if you chose not to fight to defend it.
( EHP numbers simply to illustrate an example, would obviously be subject to balance) |
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
330
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Posted - 2014.03.05 10:29:00 -
[161] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:Honestly. Fw is dead like hell. It has become pure farming party. Nothing else. Amarr got on T4 yesterday. I see whole quadbox tengu corps and triplebox bomber squads everywhere. Farmers, farmers, farmers, farmers, lp, lp, lp, lp.... This **** is broken like hell. Really.
Im sorry for your t4 but i do remeber less than a week ago u and a few of ur alliance members saying amarr didnt want t4 and wasnt busting the bunkers on purpose errrrrrrr what happened??????? GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Colt Blackhawk
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
273
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 10:50:00 -
[162] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Colt Blackhawk wrote:Honestly. Fw is dead like hell. It has become pure farming party. Nothing else. Amarr got on T4 yesterday. I see whole quadbox tengu corps and triplebox bomber squads everywhere. Farmers, farmers, farmers, farmers, lp, lp, lp, lp.... This **** is broken like hell. Really. Im sorry for your t4 but i do remeber less than a week ago u and a few of ur alliance members saying amarr didnt want t4 and wasnt busting the bunkers on purpose errrrrrrr what happened???????
Nothing. We didn-¦t even bust one bunker. Still maybe 7 vulnerable or so. Farmers donated enough like mad. Grrrrrr. Now we are the floppy bear ears militia^^ [09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks. |
Silverbackyererse
41
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Posted - 2014.03.05 10:58:00 -
[163] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:Honestly. Fw is dead like hell. It has become pure farming party. Nothing else. Amarr got on T4 yesterday. I see whole quadbox tengu corps and triplebox bomber squads everywhere. Farmers, farmers, farmers, farmers, lp, lp, lp, lp.... This **** is broken like hell. Really.
Nah mate, it's working as intended. You're just not used to playing the game at a half decent tier for any length of time.
Hold Amarr in tier four for long enough and you'll be able to buy all my Fedo's. (Farking things breed like FW farmers at Tier 3+).
|
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1448
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Posted - 2014.03.05 11:13:00 -
[164] - Quote
I still believe the best solution is to add another effect to the deadspace pocket beyond being unable to warp inside an FW plex:
Warp core stabilizers cause x amount of damage per second to your ship that stacks with each wcs fitted when inside an FW plex. |
IbanezLaney
the church of awesome Caldari State Capturing
989
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 11:22:00 -
[165] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:I don't know much about the mission side of things but I was thinking about a way of improving the Plexing system and I had a thought, could beacons be given EHP, be destructable, not much EHP either say 10-15K for a Novice/Small, 30K for a Medium and 60-70K for a Large.
This would mean that anybody could come into your plex and remove it, preventing you from acquiring the LP if you chose not to fight to defend it.
( EHP numbers simply to illustrate an example, would obviously be subject to balance)
I like this idea.
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
313
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Posted - 2014.03.05 11:46:00 -
[166] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:I don't know much about the mission side of things but I was thinking about a way of improving the Plexing system and I had a thought, could beacons be given EHP, be destructable, not much EHP either say 10-15K for a Novice/Small, 30K for a Medium and 60-70K for a Large.
This would mean that anybody could come into your plex and remove it, preventing you from acquiring the LP if you chose not to fight to defend it.
( EHP numbers simply to illustrate an example, would obviously be subject to balance) I like this idea.
awsome idea
This is my balls to the wall idea
(puts on flame proof jacket)
you complete a plex with a warp stab or cloak fitted and you loose all your LP on every account you have ever owned or will own int he futrue from now until the end of time. and it reduces all SP on ur chars to 0.
I like this idea more :) I hate farmers |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
701
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 12:51:00 -
[167] - Quote
FW is working fine, we do not need any mechanics that prevent people spending more time in plexes.
CCP removed effects of downtime plexing just to make sure there is reason to be in plexes 24/7, and that was something what players wanted. Now it seems that people want to get back same kind of denial mechanics to prevent farming.
Try to decide already what you want, because your ideas may do something else than what you could 1st think, like it did when CCP 1st version of tier system was implemented.
If you do not like farmers then hunt those down until they do not farm anymore, problem solved. |
Danny John-Peter
Snuff Box
411
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 13:06:00 -
[168] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:FW is working fine, we do not need any mechanics that prevent people spending more time in plexes.
CCP removed effects of downtime plexing just to make sure there is reason to be in plexes 24/7, and that was something what players wanted. Now it seems that people want to get back same kind of denial mechanics to prevent farming.
Try to decide already what you want, because your ideas may do something else than what you could 1st think, like it did when CCP 1st version of tier system was implemented.
If you do not like farmers then hunt those down until they do not farm anymore, problem solved.
Its nigh on impossible to kill determined FW farmers.
The current plexing mechanic facilitates low effort, low risk isk with no effort, it does not encourage PVP in any way.
So no, it is not working fine.
Also I have no idea what your 3rd paragraph actually meant. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
701
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 13:21:00 -
[169] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:FW is working fine, we do not need any mechanics that prevent people spending more time in plexes.
CCP removed effects of downtime plexing just to make sure there is reason to be in plexes 24/7, and that was something what players wanted. Now it seems that people want to get back same kind of denial mechanics to prevent farming.
Try to decide already what you want, because your ideas may do something else than what you could 1st think, like it did when CCP 1st version of tier system was implemented.
If you do not like farmers then hunt those down until they do not farm anymore, problem solved. Its nigh on impossible to kill determined FW farmers. The current plexing mechanic facilitates low effort, low risk isk with no effort, it does not encourage PVP in any way. So no, it is not working fine. Also I have no idea what your 3rd paragraph actually meant.
You sure can prevent farming totally if you want, make organisation who controls whole area kill all plexers and prevent plexing.
It is not something one guy can do alone, and that is reason what makes it working mechanic in mmo. |
David Devant
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
147
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Posted - 2014.03.05 13:27:00 -
[170] - Quote
Derp. |
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David Devant
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
147
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 13:32:00 -
[171] - Quote
Solution is a new deployable. CCP should buy that.
Amarr Infiltration Unit: This deployable structure uses hyper space noodles to take control of a bunker's defensive defence matrix.
500k a pop. 30kehp. Variable timing for different plexes. When destroyed you have to start again.
Minmatar Acquisitional Distortion Array: Does the same thing but for the defender. When the timer goes down the plex is hidden and no longer appears on scan or overview. |
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
33
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 14:07:00 -
[172] - Quote
Fix: Allow interdiction and anchorable bubbles in low sec.
Just not on grid with any stations or stargates.
bam, done. pay me "The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain." |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
53
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Posted - 2014.03.05 14:37:00 -
[173] - Quote
Leak: CCP solved the farmer problem.
This: Farmer Police
Stats like the Fed Navy Comet, but with just 2 fitting slots (highslots):
1) It can fit a new 'Farmer Buster Cloak II' module that allows you to warp cloaked directly to the plex beacon (entirely bypassing the acceleration gate)*
2) It can fit a new 'Farmer Doomsday' module that only works in FW plexes, does zero dps, but when activated on a stabbed ship it will instapop it
Farmer Police ships and mods will be made available each month to the Top 10 wartarget killers of each Faction.
*On a more serious note, this is an interesting proposal, not necessarily limited to FW plexes |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
105
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 16:31:00 -
[174] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:*On a more serious note, this is an interesting proposal, not necessarily limited to FW plexes
Justified Chaos - bringing you inventive, emerging gameplay through more ways to pew pew. From the inventors of the Derptron, favorite of attrition warfare speed junkies everywhere. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
906
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 16:35:00 -
[175] - Quote
Some of the ideas to solve it are so far out that the box is but a dot on the horizon :)
Let the farmers farm if that is what they want, just keep their "efforts" well away from the war proper.
De-couple LP and VP. Problem solved.
Just two possible ways of doing it: 1. Move majority of LP generation out of plexes, that one change is what brought the farmers .. easy, no risk cash always attracts flies. 2. Add a tick-box/option in the militia interface setting a flag that determines whether one is to get LP or VP until the setting is changed again .. 2a. Above almost demands that in-plex fighting is completely standings neutral, both to bring in more pirates but also to allow for one to shoot farmers (even blues) to maximize VP.
But 'meh'. CCP are happy with it .. and the farmers who pay CCP's salaries are happy with it .. FW will not be changed :) |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
701
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Posted - 2014.03.05 16:40:00 -
[176] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Some of the ideas to solve it are so far out that the box is but a dot on the horizon :)
Let the farmers farm if that is what they want, just keep their "efforts" well away from the war proper.
De-couple LP and VP. Problem solved.
Just two possible ways of doing it: 1. Move majority of LP generation out of plexes, that one change is what brought the farmers .. easy, no risk cash always attracts flies. 2. Add a tick-box/option in the militia interface setting a flag that determines whether one is to get LP or VP until the setting is changed again .. 2a. Above almost demands that in-plex fighting is completely standings neutral, both to bring in more pirates but also to allow for one to shoot farmers (even blues) to maximize VP.
But 'meh'. CCP are happy with it .. and the farmers who pay CCP's salaries are happy with it .. FW will not be changed :)
So you want to remove reward from actual fw play and leave all isk just to farmers. excellent proposal.
but NO. |
Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
174
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 16:53:00 -
[177] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:I don't know much about the mission side of things but I was thinking about a way of improving the Plexing system and I had a thought, could beacons be given EHP, be destructable, not much EHP either say 10-15K for a Novice/Small, 30K for a Medium and 60-70K for a Large.
This would mean that anybody could come into your plex and remove it, preventing you from acquiring the LP if you chose not to fight to defend it.
( EHP numbers simply to illustrate an example, would obviously be subject to balance)
thats a very interesting concept, kinda similar to the ESS, while active in system the thing will give LP to the militians in the whole system, but can be taken down by the enemy militia, so obligues players to group together in order to keep their LP making machine in place.....
no reinforced mode BTW......the thing goes down or not......it depends on the players......the amount of LP given is well, i dont know how much.....
it could give a new system, take out the passive plexes, and leave only combat plexes, the beacon while is active in system will improve the LP earn by a percent overtime (up to 25%), of plexes, players will have to put combat in their FW or not get any reward....killing people from the enemy militia would be bonused from this too...... |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
105
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 16:57:00 -
[178] - Quote
Silivar Karkun wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:I don't know much about the mission side of things but I was thinking about a way of improving the Plexing system and I had a thought, could beacons be given EHP, be destructable, not much EHP either say 10-15K for a Novice/Small, 30K for a Medium and 60-70K for a Large.
This would mean that anybody could come into your plex and remove it, preventing you from acquiring the LP if you chose not to fight to defend it.
( EHP numbers simply to illustrate an example, would obviously be subject to balance) thats a very interesting concept, kinda similar to the ESS, while active in system the thing will give LP to the militians in the whole system, but can be taken down by the enemy militia, so obligues players to group together in order to keep their LP making machine in place..... no reinforced mode BTW......the thing goes down or not......it depends on the players......the amount of LP given is well, i dont know how much.....
An LP ESS would be a very, very, very interesting thing indeed. Especially if it gave tags that could be turned in to militia agents to get faction-appropriate LPs.
Would be an awesome way for low tier factions to steal LP from their higher tier opponents... Talk about griefability! |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
292
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 17:40:00 -
[179] - Quote
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:Fix: Allow interdiction and anchorable bubbles in low sec.
Just not on grid with any stations or stargates.
bam, done. pay me and the bubble only works if you have stabs on amirite? |
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
33
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Posted - 2014.03.05 18:36:00 -
[180] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote: and the bubble only works if you have stabs on amirite?
wtf did that come from? why would you even... ?
Kids, this brings me to my next point; don't do drugs. "The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain." |
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