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Karma Codolle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
79
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 01:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I noticed my expedition timers no longer reset when warping to the site so i can extend the time allowed to do them each day.
Was this removed or is it a bug?
To clarify I did actually warp into the site to try and reset the timer and nothing happened |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2052
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Posted - 2014.02.23 02:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=316942&find=unread
Apparently working as intended, much to general chagrin. |
Gh0stBust3rs
Wraith Shadow Guards D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
45
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Posted - 2014.02.23 02:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
making it alot harder to sell my esculations for isk...
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Karma Codolle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
79
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Posted - 2014.02.23 04:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well that blows, wtf.
24hrs is a short window to do escalations especially when you get more than 1.
If we aren't getting a reset option they could at least bump up the time to 36-48 hours initial
That way if i find a site at noon sunday, and i cant run, i dont have to run to my computer noon monday and instead can wait till night |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
22085
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Posted - 2014.02.23 18:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yeah, the escalation timer change in my opinion is completely unwarranted. The old mechanic worked just fine and everyone was happy with it.
As an active member of this community for over 5 years, I've never seen any rage / complaint threads posted about the escalation timer until this change.
DMC Faction Standing Repair Plan | California Eve Players | (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
680
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Posted - 2014.02.24 08:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Karma Codolle wrote:So I noticed my expedition timers no longer reset when warping to the site so i can extend the time allowed to do them each day.
Was this removed or is it a bug?
To clarify I did actually warp into the site to try and reset the timer and nothing happened
Even more frustrating is that I warped to the site and everything disappeared 3 minutes into doing the site as that is when the timer expired. Leave it to CCP to screw things up. High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve . |
Karma Codolle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
81
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Posted - 2014.02.25 20:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:Karma Codolle wrote:So I noticed my expedition timers no longer reset when warping to the site so i can extend the time allowed to do them each day.
Was this removed or is it a bug?
To clarify I did actually warp into the site to try and reset the timer and nothing happened Even more frustrating is that I warped to the site and everything disappeared 3 minutes into doing the site as that is when the timer expired. Leave it to CCP to screw things up.
ya i was running late to a site. I got in system with like 20 seconds to spare. Thinking great i'll hit warp and land with site still playable. Nope |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
107
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Posted - 2014.02.25 22:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Karma Codolle wrote:Well that blows, wtf.
24hrs is a short window to do escalations especially when you get more than 1.
If we aren't getting a reset option they could at least bump up the time to 36-48 hours initial
That way if i find a site at noon sunday, and i cant run, i dont have to run to my computer noon monday and instead can wait till night
Stop expecting to stockpile high-end PVE content so you can just blow through ti whenever you want. You want isk? Work for it. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
797
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Posted - 2014.02.26 01:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote:Karma Codolle wrote:Well that blows, wtf.
24hrs is a short window to do escalations especially when you get more than 1.
If we aren't getting a reset option they could at least bump up the time to 36-48 hours initial
That way if i find a site at noon sunday, and i cant run, i dont have to run to my computer noon monday and instead can wait till night Stop expecting to stockpile high-end PVE content so you can just blow through ti whenever you want. You want isk? Work for it.
No - you've missed the point, which is probably from you not doing the null escalations which take so long (from anomalies).
If I am playing 5 hours per day, there is a fair chance that I'll be able to complete most of of my escalations. If I am playing for 2 hours per day, its likely that (a) the escalation cannot be completed in todays playtime, and (b) the escalation also cannot be completed before it despawns in tomorrows playtime.
ie it has gone from a relatively fair system, where I could prolong the existence of the escalation until I had time to do it, to being a relatively unfair system, where it seriously favours people with long play sessions.
ie you seem to have some picture that escalations take 10 minutes to do, where as a ded escalation from a nullsec anomaly is likely to take 90 minutes including travel time, and quite often involves dead time waiting for active reds to go away.
A player living in gurista space playing for 90 minutes a day, would probably only be able to complete the ded 6 escalation in the timeframes available to them, and that comes off particularly dull encounters that earn no isk, and has tiny (1%) trigger rates.
IMO the minimum viable play session is now 3 hours, and that's too much and bad game design. I would not care if the timer was not put back to 7 days, I do think it should reliably overlap for a 90 minute a day player (ie imo 26 hours is the minimum timer that should be on escalations).
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Karma Codolle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
81
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Posted - 2014.02.26 04:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote:Karma Codolle wrote:Well that blows, wtf.
24hrs is a short window to do escalations especially when you get more than 1.
If we aren't getting a reset option they could at least bump up the time to 36-48 hours initial
That way if i find a site at noon sunday, and i cant run, i dont have to run to my computer noon monday and instead can wait till night Stop expecting to stockpile high-end PVE content so you can just blow through ti whenever you want. You want isk? Work for it.
I don't stockpile.
If you lived in null and weren't a carebear. You'd know why a small 24hr window is a pain in the ass.
it requires if i want to do my content I have to log on again in the 24hours and spend the hour+ burning down my site.
If i'm a student, that's extremely annoying.
If i want to pvp the next day, that's also extremely annoying
Because actually now, i have to log in well under the 24hr time frame. Because if i log in at 23 hours and 30minutes. The site will despawn on me in the middle of it
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Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
107
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Posted - 2014.02.26 12:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
I don't know why either of you expect the big rewards to come from minimal, inflexible playtimes. You've actually got to work for it, which is good. Prices go up. Money for my effort goes up.
Also it forces you into making compromising decisions about your personal security (possibly). Which is even better for me. |
Karma Codolle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 08:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote:I don't know why either of you expect the big rewards to come from minimal, inflexible playtimes. You've actually got to work for it, which is good. Prices go up. Money for my effort goes up.
Also it forces you into making compromising decisions about your personal security (possibly). Which is even better for me.
What rewards? Average ded drops only the OSE
As well as doing a FSP or the likes with multiple escalation. Can put me out of my playable tz to physically finish it. Since in order to make sure it doesn't despawn on me i have to at min start it an hour before times up and that's if everything works out perfectly.
I don't understand how merely extending the expiration to compensate for real life, is now equating to explorers not working for their income. There still doing the exact same thing whether they do it in under 24 hours or 48 hours. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
814
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Posted - 2014.02.27 08:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote:I don't know why either of you expect the big rewards to come from minimal, inflexible playtimes. You've actually got to work for it, which is good. Prices go up. Money for my effort goes up.
Also it forces you into making compromising decisions about your personal security (possibly). Which is even better for me.
You already have to work for it. ie if I spent 700 minutes over 6 play sessions popping a ******* escalation, then I should be allowed to have a chance to actually do said escalation.
Honestly CCP is stark raving mad if they think this isn't a horribly inflexble and unfun system, and they could fix it by simply adding 4 hours to the timer, so that it doesn't despawn during the very first available play session to complete it, for most people.
I'm far more likely to be able to arrange to extend tomorrows game session to be able to do the escalation than I am on the random unguessable day that it popped. ie real life, do deals with people I socialise or work with, blah blah blah.
and no that isn't inflexible, its just pointing out how ******* stupid a 24hr content timer off a random once every 10 minutes sample truly is (and why it wasn't designed that stupid way in the first place).
The fix isn't in there to force us to do the content quickly - the fix is in there because CCP can't be bothered making the NPCs unscannable, or can't be bothered making the content remember what state its in after a DT, which is a problem I will note is still in there.
Furthermore, all the 30 stupid battleships respawn after DT, and my play time is wrapped around DT, which is another reason why even if I had as much as 4 hours on a day, I'd still probably struggle to get one of the longer ones done, because I literally can't start on some of them before DT if I log on an hour before DT. |
Batelle
HOMELE55
1959
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote:Karma Codolle wrote:Well that blows, wtf.
24hrs is a short window to do escalations especially when you get more than 1.
If we aren't getting a reset option they could at least bump up the time to 36-48 hours initial
That way if i find a site at noon sunday, and i cant run, i dont have to run to my computer noon monday and instead can wait till night Stop expecting to stockpile high-end PVE content so you can just blow through ti whenever you want. You want isk? Work for it.
I wasn't aware that resetting escalation timers gave you free isk. People have lives.
@Tauranon, AFAIK CCP gave no justification as to why they felt this nerf was appropriate, they just said "we're doing this." "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2217
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Posted - 2014.02.28 16:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
The reset timer was most used to exploit the spawn reset after DT, by removing the reset timer players have to choose to complete a escalation once it has need started or give it up, not reset it and cargo scan the rat until suitable loot drops. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Spectre Wraith
Darwin Inc.
127
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Posted - 2014.03.01 22:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:The reset timer was most used to exploit the spawn reset after DT, by removing the reset timer players have to choose to complete a escalation once it has need started or give it up, not reset it and cargo scan the rat until suitable loot drops.
This, this guy knows. After many years of seeing this obvious flaw (and occasionally partaking), it's a shame the reset was removed, but it allowed for an obvious flaw in the mechanic by those who understood how to easily take advantage of it. |
Jonas Staal
Interstellar Booty Hunters
56
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Posted - 2014.03.03 07:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
While I agree that the cargo scanning or ship scanning of the overseer was an exploit, doing escalations in "hostile" area is pretty tough now.
If I get an escalation in a system I can't reach due to gate-camps, or because the system is too hot I automaticly lose the escalation, because I often cannot re-log within 24h.
Ofcourse that's an issue for me to work out, yet if they find scanning the overseer a problem, why not make overseers impossible to scan? Like some overseers being imune to web's or other E-War. |
Karma Codolle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 20:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jonas Staal wrote:While I agree that the cargo scanning or ship scanning of the overseer was an exploit, doing escalations in "hostile" area is pretty tough now.
If I get an escalation in a system I can't reach due to gate-camps, or because the system is too hot I automaticly lose the escalation, because I often cannot re-log within 24h.
Ofcourse that's an issue for me to work out, yet if they find scanning the overseer a problem, why not make overseers impossible to scan? Like some overseers being imune to web's or other E-War.
ya that's my biggest gripe with it. I have escalations that take me over 15 jumps which can be across several regions. If that goes into hostile space, I can try and plan it around their off time, but that takes more than 24 hours to do.
If scanning the rats are a problem why don't they just make the dread spawns unscannable. Why anyone would need to cargo scan a rat other than to exploit the system is beyond me |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2218
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Posted - 2014.03.04 01:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Karma Codolle wrote:Jonas Staal wrote:While I agree that the cargo scanning or ship scanning of the overseer was an exploit, doing escalations in "hostile" area is pretty tough now.
If I get an escalation in a system I can't reach due to gate-camps, or because the system is too hot I automaticly lose the escalation, because I often cannot re-log within 24h.
Ofcourse that's an issue for me to work out, yet if they find scanning the overseer a problem, why not make overseers impossible to scan? Like some overseers being imune to web's or other E-War. ya that's my biggest gripe with it. I have escalations that take me over 15 jumps which can be across several regions. If that goes into hostile space, I can try and plan it around their off time, but that takes more than 24 hours to do. If scanning the rats are a problem why don't they just make the dread spawns unscannable. Why anyone would need to cargo scan a rat other than to exploit the system is beyond me If you cant get to the escalation within 24 hrs do to gate camps and mass travel or hostile areas, how will the reset timer have helped to begin with? Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
824
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Karma Codolle wrote:Jonas Staal wrote:While I agree that the cargo scanning or ship scanning of the overseer was an exploit, doing escalations in "hostile" area is pretty tough now.
If I get an escalation in a system I can't reach due to gate-camps, or because the system is too hot I automaticly lose the escalation, because I often cannot re-log within 24h.
Ofcourse that's an issue for me to work out, yet if they find scanning the overseer a problem, why not make overseers impossible to scan? Like some overseers being imune to web's or other E-War. ya that's my biggest gripe with it. I have escalations that take me over 15 jumps which can be across several regions. If that goes into hostile space, I can try and plan it around their off time, but that takes more than 24 hours to do. If scanning the rats are a problem why don't they just make the dread spawns unscannable. Why anyone would need to cargo scan a rat other than to exploit the system is beyond me If you cant get to the escalation within 24 hrs do to gate camps and mass travel or hostile areas, how will the reset timer have helped to begin with?
Because under the old rules you needed 10 seconds of system access in covops/nullified t3 or an interceptor to reset the timer, under the new rules, you can only even do a ded 7 or 8 escalation if you have 60+ minutes, and under the old rules you could get there the next day with 1 minute to go and that would suffice, under the new rules you need to get there 60+ minutes before the escalation times out AND have nobody start probing you, since the probing will force you to stop otherwise give up your escalation location.
Not only that, we ->>> cannot <<<<- choose when an anomoly escalates. Nothing worse than having an hour today, and 3 hours tomorrow, getting the random pop today, but having absolutely no chance of running it tomorrow, and instead having to spend 3 hours running anomolies tomorrow that just don't pop.
The three things they needed to do was. (a) shorten the max timer. (b) make commanders and overseers unscannable. (c) make it so non completion commanders don't respawn after a DT.
They've left (b) and (c) in there, which is still dumb, and in lieu of doing that thing that is actually work, they've lazily shortened the timer too far. Making it 28 hours would suffice for now until they can fix (b) and (c).
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Batelle
HOMELE55
2056
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Posted - 2014.03.04 05:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Working as intended for years and years Nerf the **** out of something in the laziest way possible that does not address the problem without considering the implications (in this case unrated sites). call it a bugfix classic ccp. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1302
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Posted - 2014.03.04 16:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tauranon wrote: If I am playing 5 hours per day, there is a fair chance that I'll be able to complete most of of my escalations.
not sure if it is normal to have MORE THAN 1 escalation at a time.... They should be rare. The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1302
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Posted - 2014.03.04 17:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Yeah, the escalation timer change in my opinion is completely unwarranted. The old mechanic worked just fine and everyone was happy with it.
Did anyone see full-time incursion runners whine about "incursion is too profitable"? Or full-time lvl4 runners about "lvl4s are too good"?
There is one difference between "6/10 in 0.0", Incursions and lvl4s: 0.0 people keep silent about their internal sources of income
So silence about "broken 6/10" doesn't amuse me And this is not a sign that everything is ok. The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
825
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Posted - 2014.03.04 23:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Yeah, the escalation timer change in my opinion is completely unwarranted. The old mechanic worked just fine and everyone was happy with it. Did anyone see full-time incursion runners whine about "incursion is too profitable"? Or full-time lvl4 runners about "lvl4s are too good"? There is one difference between "6/10 in 0.0", Incursions and lvl4s: 0.0 people keep silent about their internal sources of income So silence about "broken 6/10" doesn't amuse me And this is not a sign that everything is ok.
The only way I've ever been able to fill the escalation page is with highsec dens or highsec hideouts.
I have 3 6/10 escalations from 305 rally points. ie the escalation rate is likely to be 1%, but the study of the escalation rate alone takes months.
Rally point takes 7 minutes to do, ie they escalate every 11 hours of ratting on average. The longest streak between escalations was 230 - ie 1610 minutes of perfect concentration ratting, or probably more like 2000 minutes for me after interruptions and non perfect play - or - nearly a months ratting between escalations.
The expectation of loot from a gurista 6/10 is 600m per run, will take me about 40 minutes including reshipping and travel (this is a sample based on the actual sig, because I've done more ded 6 sigs than I have ded 6 escalations).
700 minutes at 21m/isk/hr ratting is 245m + 40 minutes at 600m = 845m total expectation = 1.14m / minute = 68m isk/hr expected long term.
presuming I was cheating the escalation system, and resetting it 4 times on average, and improving my loot expectation to 1.2b a run. This covers all the likely probabilities, (a) that you get both booster and invuln drop. (b) you get one of them show on scan and decide to take it "as is" because tomorrow might be worse, (c) you get more faction drops along the way and (d) you are unable to log on a day and lose your farm encounter(s) occasionally.
Total time would have been 700+40x4 = 860, total isk "expectation" would have been 101m/isk, or still below sisters ratting.
ie whatever they were looking for - wasn't happening in the ded 6. IMO the faux ded 6s (serp and angel guaranteed escalations) have slower and harder endings than the gurista one, and only the angel one is likely to be equivalent value. |
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