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Hafthor
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Posted - 2006.04.16 17:44:00 -
[1]
It's annoyingly hard to get large quantities of this stuff, the number of regions it's sold in to begin with is too low. I'm not aware of any other component sold by NPC that is so damn hard to get.
Spread of sellers
The number of corporations selling this product is too low in my opinion, not to mention the fact that not a single Minmatar based corp is selling it. The reason I need it in large quantities is that it's a component in tech2 missiles and therefore no longer just a trade product. Materials needed for building should be spread out a bit, otherwise traffic in certain areas will only be increased and prices distorted in unfair ways.
Else just make larger quantities available, it's bad enough having to jump across known space to get it.
-------------------------- "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far" |
RogueWing
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Posted - 2006.04.16 18:06:00 -
[2]
That's right. T2 producers should not have to work for their money.
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Hafthor
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Posted - 2006.04.16 19:04:00 -
[3]
Actually I just think it's unfair that a tech2 producer in Minmatar space has to work harder than one in Caldari space, that means a hihger price, which is bad for anyone other than the producer.... so your point was?
-------------------------- "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far" |
Kaaii
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Posted - 2006.04.16 19:38:00 -
[4]
What will you pay a barrel?
Give me your best price, and the quantity you would like, location.
"..Id rather fall beside 10 lions, than stand with One thousand sheep.."
Tradeing 101 |
9854365
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Posted - 2006.04.16 20:15:00 -
[5]
lol just 20 min ago dumped a freighter load in pator was gone in less than 5 min. Missions also drop rocket fuel asa bonus.
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Hafthor
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Posted - 2006.04.16 20:31:00 -
[6]
Yes, it creates a trade route where there was none, and thats a nice side effect but I still feel it is unbalanced to have no large scale NPC seller in one races regions.
-------------------------- "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far" |
9854365
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Posted - 2006.04.16 20:45:00 -
[7]
me renames freighter "OPEC" and goes to work
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Ploog
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Posted - 2006.04.16 22:54:00 -
[8]
nvm
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Nathan Grey
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Posted - 2006.04.17 00:28:00 -
[9]
Here, have some cheese.
From the top, corporations do not always stay in "their" space. There are Gallente corps out in Kor-Azor and Devoid, and Minmatar corps out in Lonetrek. Double-check your region before complaining about how the corps are distributed, because the factional alignment of the corp does not neccessitate its presence is exclusive in their faction's space. See the Jovian corporations.
If you want something, put up a buy order. Traders will consider it according to whether or not it's worth THEIR time. If you don't want to pay them for their time, then use YOUR time. Ownership of a T2 BPO does not drop you into the ranks of the lazy elite who thrive off of sheer skills and having an in on a market with insanely high entry barriers.
I'm still hauling ships to the market in a Mammoth, and rare materials from three regions over.
You can whine, you can pay people, or you can do the work yourself. And as to the distribution of goods being inequal ... well, Eve isn't all fair, you might've noticed. You take what you get. ----------------------------------
Industrialist. I build it. You buy it. You break it and buy another one. Market domination through ingue ferrogue. (I did this and could have stopped it.) |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.04.17 00:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Hafthor Actually I just think it's unfair that a tech2 producer in Minmatar space has to work harder than one in Caldari space, that means a hihger price, which is bad for anyone other than the producer.... so your point was?
Eve is a zero-sum game. If it's cheaper to work somewhere else, move there. If the cost of moving is prohibitive, you're more profitable staying where you are. What's the problem?
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
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Nathan Grey
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Posted - 2006.04.17 02:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Nyphur Eve is a zero-sum game.
Lies! See rat hunting and mining for the positive and PvP (module destruction) for the negative. But don't discuss here... thread hijacking is bad.
Otherwise, yeah. If it's more profitable to build somewhere else, as Nyphur sez, move somewhere else. Who's forcing you to stay in Metropolis or Heimatar? ----------------------------------
Industrialist. I build it. You buy it. You break it and buy another one. Market domination through ingue ferrogue. (I did this and could have stopped it.) |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.04.17 04:31:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Nathan Grey
Originally by: Nyphur Eve is a zero-sum game.
Lies! See rat hunting and mining for the positive and PvP (module destruction) for the negative. But don't discuss here... thread hijacking is bad.
Good point. Okay, eve's not a zero sum game but you get what I mean. There's no imbalance here because there's nothing stopping your race from living in another region. This isn't like the raven being better than the Dominix or anything here, you can freely switch regions at will.
The original post boils down to "I can't find any rocket fuel where I live. Instead of moving to where it's produced or shipping it in, I've decided to complain that it should be produced where I live in order to make my game easier.". I don't think I'm being too harsh with that assessment, either.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.04.17 06:41:00 -
[13]
The OP's post can be rephrased into: Why do I have to buy from stations in space where I will be attacked by the local security forces or have to travel 30 jumps to get the stinking roket goo?
Ammatar Space is a no go for a lot of Minmatar pilots. Gallente space is far away from a lot of Minmatar systems. --*=*=*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Erfnam
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Posted - 2006.04.17 21:11:00 -
[14]
Easy solution, produce your ammo up in Caldari space, where there is plenty of rocket fuel (we are the missile loving faction after all). Then ship your smaller ammo south to markets. I just picked up a t2 torp bpo and I'm manufacturing down in devoid, which is lacking in building components. It didn't faze me, I just made 1 trip with my module-free badger m2 and I'm good for over 2 weeks.
Recruiting WTS Bulk Barges/Mining/Indy |
Arkanor
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Posted - 2006.04.18 03:05:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Erfnam Easy solution, produce your ammo up in Caldari space, where there is plenty of rocket fuel (we are the missile loving faction after all).
That makes perfect RP sense... ________________________________________________
Originally by: Imperial Baddour I just lost my ship, and dont feel like playing anymore!
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.04.18 11:41:00 -
[16]
Flying into Caldari space might prove problematic for pilots being KOS by Ammatar security forces.
But some pilots might have problems seeing the problems described here because of their big chins being between eyes and screen or understanding it because their brain mass is replaced with bone to counter their chin's weight.
If that was meant sarcastic, my sarcasm detector must have missed it. --*=*=*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Hafthor
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Posted - 2006.04.20 14:35:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Nathan Grey
Here, have some cheese.
From the top, corporations do not always stay in "their" space. There are Gallente corps out in Kor-Azor and Devoid, and Minmatar corps out in Lonetrek. Double-check your region before complaining about how the corps are distributed, because the factional alignment of the corp does not neccessitate its presence is exclusive in their faction's space. See the Jovian corporations.
If you want something, put up a buy order. Traders will consider it according to whether or not it's worth THEIR time. If you don't want to pay them for their time, then use YOUR time. Ownership of a T2 BPO does not drop you into the ranks of the lazy elite who thrive off of sheer skills and having an in on a market with insanely high entry barriers.
I'm still hauling ships to the market in a Mammoth, and rare materials from three regions over.
You can whine, you can pay people, or you can do the work yourself. And as to the distribution of goods being inequal ... well, Eve isn't all fair, you might've noticed. You take what you get.
Even though corps do not stay exclusively in their factions space the majority of their stations are in their 'home' space.
Putting up a buy order is all well and good but it still does not address the point of my post, the spread of the sellers is bad. It just occurred to me that maybe the effect of this spread was overlooked when it was decided to add this as a building component.
Most of your post seems to be about me complaining about things and not doing enough work. Get off your own high horse and get to the point, I merely wanted some response regarding the spread of the item in question. Thanks for posting though.
-------------------------- "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far" |
Hafthor
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Posted - 2006.04.20 14:45:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Hafthor Actually I just think it's unfair that a tech2 producer in Minmatar space has to work harder than one in Caldari space, that means a hihger price, which is bad for anyone other than the producer.... so your point was?
Eve is a zero-sum game. If it's cheaper to work somewhere else, move there. If the cost of moving is prohibitive, you're more profitable staying where you are. What's the problem?
The problem is that Rocket Fuel is a building component required for a type of ammo. Ammo is used by most players, agent runners use lots of ammo for an example. Having an uneven spread of sellers makes it more difficult to get the said component which means the price is affected.
Your solution is to move somewhere else, seems to me that would cause even more congestion in certain areas which is not what people want from their game.
Your post says nothing new, I already posted that this price imbalance would not affect me.
-------------------------- "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far" |
Hafthor
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Posted - 2006.04.20 14:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Nyphur
Good point. Okay, eve's not a zero sum game but you get what I mean. There's no imbalance here because there's nothing stopping your race from living in another region. This isn't like the raven being better than the Dominix or anything here, you can freely switch regions at will.
The original post boils down to "I can't find any rocket fuel where I live. Instead of moving to where it's produced or shipping it in, I've decided to complain that it should be produced where I live in order to make my game easier.". I don't think I'm being too harsh with that assessment, either.
Your post has nothing to say, and I don't feel I'm being too harsh with that assessment either.
I'm not whining, I merely want some discussion on the spread of a building component. I've already received quite a few convos and mails offering cheap rocket fuel delivered to me so part of the objective of my post has been achieved. what I've not seen is anyone mentioning another trade good used in building that has the same idiotic spread of sellers. Mostly I've seen people accusing me of whining, and then repeating themselves or others that have posted about how this is not an imbalance. I think it's not too much to ask for some reasoning to back that claim, how is this not unfairly affecting the price of ammo to players?
-------------------------- "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far" |
Nathan Grey
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Posted - 2006.04.20 16:43:00 -
[20]
Alright, the points.
Given: *Rocket fuel is sold here, here, and here. *You want the rocket fuel over there. *The location of the supply is immutable. *The location of the demand is mutable. *The rocket fuel is to be used for manufacturing T2 ammo.
Direct observations: *It will require work to move rocket fuel from the location of the supply to the location of the demand. *It will require work to relocate the demand for the rocket fuel to the supply of the rocket fuel. *There is a given utility value for the rocket fuel, thus it has an attached isk value. *The elasticity of the demand for rocket fuel is directly proportional to the elasticity of the demand for the T2 ammo.
Indirect observations: *Eve isn't fair. *The existence of substitute ammuntion with better price:performence introduces unknown but definite elasticity to the T2 ammo demand. *Since work is expected to be paid for, the work involved in moving that rocket fuel will either need to be done for one's self, or another pilot must be paid for their services. *Where sufficient demand exists (measured by price * quantity) and knowledge of that demand exists, supply will flow.
I can pound on the above points for another 500 words, but I'll leave everyone to make there own conclusions. But special emphasis on the bolded part.
Oh yeah... as to difficult NPC goods that are components... look for plutonium. Matar outposts demand plutonium. ----------------------------------
Industrialist. I build it. You buy it. You break it and buy another one. Market domination through ingue ferrogue. (I did this and could have stopped it.) |
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2006.04.20 17:02:00 -
[21]
Nice posts nathan. Keep the whiners in their place
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Hafthor
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Posted - 2006.04.20 17:40:00 -
[22]
Comparing outposts with ammo is a bit daft in my oppinion. But it is maybe a part of the same problem, goods originally spread as trade goods are now used as production components and I feel the spread of them makes little to no sense.
What this boils down to is this:
NPC supplied goods required for manufacturing advanced missiles are missing from Minmatar space. Why?
---------
I personally think that the effect of using trade goods for manufacturing wasn't researched well enough prior to implementation. Many goods are hard to get in some regions and thats ok. I do however find it interesting that the only other trade good mentioned here is also connected to Minmatar space.
-------------------------- "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far" |
Erfnam
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Posted - 2006.04.20 17:45:00 -
[23]
Hafthor,
If you are looking for large quantities, then make a WTB post about how much you want and the price you are willing to pay. When you are trying to produce something that is faction specific, then you going to have to hunt for the item when out of that factions space. You are basically asking about why there is no on selling beef hotdogs in a vegetarian convention.
Recruiting WTS Bulk Mining/Indy - Monitor Thread |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.04.20 18:15:00 -
[24]
Rocket Fuel available?
Caldari Space: check Gallente Space: check Amarr space: check Minmatar Space: nuffing (nd the closest suppliers are in enemy space)
Why does Ammatar and Amarr space offer rocket fuel when they've hardly any ships around using missiles while nearly each and every Minmatar ship has at least one launcher slot? --*=*=*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.04.20 18:24:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Hafthor Your post has nothing to say
No, I'm pretty sure I said something.
On the other hand, you're the one complaining that rocket fuel is regional and then when faced with the idea that it was intentionally so and you could just move, you claim that it doesn't actually bother you. If it doesn't bother you, why are you complaining about it?
Do you think that they pressed a big ol' random button when they seeded rocket fuel? It's where it is for a reason. Not everything in eve has to be bloody equal, there's absolutely no imbalance in regionalising ANYTHING in eve, including rocket fuel.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Hafthor
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Posted - 2006.04.20 19:15:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Hafthor Your post has nothing to say
No, I'm pretty sure I said something.
On the other hand, you're the one complaining that rocket fuel is regional and then when faced with the idea that it was intentionally so and you could just move, you claim that it doesn't actually bother you. If it doesn't bother you, why are you complaining about it?
Do you think that they pressed a big ol' random button when they seeded rocket fuel? It's where it is for a reason. Not everything in eve has to be bloody equal, there's absolutely no imbalance in regionalising ANYTHING in eve, including rocket fuel.
I think rocket fuel was seeded as a trade good, as such it makes sense to have regional demand and supply. Now that it is a production component the supply locations strike me as strange, there is no sense to the current spread. If you could rationalize it with anything other than "It is the way it is, stop complaining" then I'd be satisfied but untill then I'm gonna be wondering why it is the way it is. And I want to talk about it and get other peoples oppinion, I already know what you think so theres really no need for you to tell me again that I am just whining and all that. If there are any other similar examples then please bring them to light. But as long as this remains an anomaly then I'm going to keep 'complaining' about it.
Is it really so unbelievable that the spread of certain goods needs to be looked at? Is it totally unthinkable that this anomaly is affecting prices in a way that was not intended? What possible reason is there for not having NPC supply of rocket fuel in Minmatar space?
-------------------------- "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far" |
Nathan Grey
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Posted - 2006.04.21 02:18:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Hafthor I think rocket fuel was seeded as a trade good, as such it makes sense to have regional demand and supply. Now that it is a production component the supply locations strike me as strange, there is no sense to the current spread. If you could rationalize it with anything other than "It is the way it is, stop complaining" then I'd be satisfied but untill then I'm gonna be wondering why it is the way it is. And I want to talk about it and get other peoples oppinion, I already know what you think so theres really no need for you to tell me again that I am just whining and all that. If there are any other similar examples then please bring them to light. But as long as this remains an anomaly then I'm going to keep 'complaining' about it.
Is it really so unbelievable that the spread of certain goods needs to be looked at? Is it totally unthinkable that this anomaly is affecting prices in a way that was not intended? What possible reason is there for not having NPC supply of rocket fuel in Minmatar space?
Random distribution with no intended layout does not generate anomalous situations. It's just the way the game is.
How's this: the NPCs in Venal sell Robotics. Now, this is a very valid scenario because it's an element of starbase fuel that can only be acquired from NPCs. Now, there aren't any other starbase fuels sold in Fountain, Outer Ring, Stain, or Curse. Is this fair? Was this intended? No, and no. It's just the way things landed.
There is no why for the way thing are. If you want some guesses, maybe the Republic controls it all and uses it for starship fuel. Maybe the Amarr took it all during their imperial days. Maybe it wasn't there in the first place.
But ultimately... there is no fixed reason why. You ask a question that has neither a meaningful, useful, nor finite answer. ----------------------------------
Industrialist. I build it. You buy it. You break it and buy another one. Market domination through ingue ferrogue. (I did this and could have stopped it.) |
Hafthor
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Posted - 2006.04.21 13:17:00 -
[28]
Ok... how about this. If you don't understand what I'm talking about then go to Jita and look at the market for rocket fuel. Compare the NPC sellers to the list provided in the item database. It's bugged, plain and simple. Either the item database on this website is bugged or the spread of sellers is bugged. I don't really care wich it is, I just wanted people to realize that there is something wrong with the way this is set up.
Have a nice day.
-------------------------- "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far" |
Asarah
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Posted - 2006.04.21 14:14:00 -
[29]
I own a restraunt in NY, and one day I invent a new tek 2 salsa. Mango salsa. Now in order to make this salsa for sale in my restraunt I naturally will need a key ingredient, Mangoes, which, due to the needs of the fruit, can only be produced in tropical climates. Hmmm I look for local suppliers, nothing. Looks like I'm going to have to pay someone to transport mangoes here to NY for my tek 2 salsa production.
Fack God for not putting more Mango trees in New York State!!!! This is so unfair to us tek 2 salsa producers!!!!
Realism, FTW. -----------------------
RiP is now RECRUITING! |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.04.21 14:19:00 -
[30]
He does understand. He just doesn't want the situation to change.
His alliance has easy access to Ammatar space. Thier opponents are partially based adjacent to Minmatar space and kinda anti-Amarr/Ammatar.
I have seen members of his alliance attack transport ships coming from the Ammatar rocket fuel depots. Coincidence?
ccp never bothered changing such stuff. They normally didn't event comment on it. And sometimes there have been ninja fixes months after someone pointed at the problems. There is hope. --*=*=*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
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