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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
65
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi. I'd like to propose a change that I think would be very good for EVE and attract a lot of new players.
Give new accounts free SP. One of the most common reasons newbies give up on EVE is that they see it will take 60+ days to fly an effective cruiser, and ragequit. The problem only gets worse when you consider higher level ships, or training other races' skills. Many prestigious corporations in EVE will require you to have a full T2 fit battleship, HAC, or even capital ship before they consider your application.
Add support skills into the mix (as a new player your drones do 20% less damage for example) and you have a really discouraging formula.
This IMO, as time goes by, will be EVE's biggest problem. New player retention.
And before you say it's the fault of the community, and that they don't support newbsGÇö it simply isn't true. Newbs are looked after very well by corporations like E-UNI and BNI. The help channels actively answer new players' questions, usually in a quick and helpful fashion.
Before you objectGÇö this would not cause imbalance. Having a bunch more t2 fit tier one cruisers in the game would make hardly any difference at all to the strategic landscape. New players would still be hundreds of days away from the heavy hitting ships like Dreadnoughts and Carriers. I'm not suggesting the training time for the top level stuff be reducedGÇö having more titan pilots in EVE would not be a good thing.
I'm suggesting that new players should start the game with the skills to fully t2 fit a frigate and cruiser of their choice. This would have minimal repercussions for veterans, and encourage a ton of new people to subscribe to the game. |
brinelan
The Flying Dead Havoc.
142
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Plenty of new players stick around and fly t1 frigates as they skill up, and there are plenty of corps that take newer players. I don't see a problem. |
Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
65
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yeah, but plenty also quit. |
Jack Morrison
Sinister Spinster Advent of Fate
126
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
brinelan wrote:Plenty of new players stick around and fly t1 frigates as they skill up, and there are plenty of corps that take newer players. I don't see a problem.
He just wants everything now......
Skilling for something new and finally getting it is both exciting and rewarding, something the veteran players don't have anymore, for them it is just 2% here and 1% there with taking skills to V. Enjoy while it lasts, if you are really inpatient though, grind some isk in FW/incursions (little skills needed in FW) and buy a toon in the bazaar.
If you are however inpatient and lazy, then this game is definitely not for you - contract me your stuff and have fun elsewhere. |
ZeeWolf Novus
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
51
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:Yeah, but plenty also quit.
Then they aren't worthy. |
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
501
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hi. I'd like to propose a change that I think would be very good for EVE and attract a lot of new players.
Please add a dislike button to the forums so that ****posters are more easily identified. Honor is a fools prize. Glory is of no use to the dead.
Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager |
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
184
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
The problem is it just bumps the problem down the road to the next hurdle. Sure, if we went with your idea, newbies can dodge frigates (which is a bad idea imo) and fly cruisers straight out the box, but then they are only looking at battlecruisers with the same envious eyes, then battleships, then capitals. If a player can't tolerate the structure of EvE, and resents the slow progression system, it wont matter how far down the road we start them off, all they will see is the road stretched ahead.
And besides, as Jack says above, the biggest rush and feeling of accomplishment in the early game is getting in to that next ship. My first Battlecruiser, my first (properly skilled, we wont talk about the true first) Battleship, my first Stealth Bomber, my first HAC, finally getting my Dreadnaught - these were defining moments. Thats something you don't want to rush, because it quickly becomes "one percent this, one percent that, oh I suppose I might as well pick up that T2 weapon system I don't need right now, perhaps another race of T2 cruisers just in case". |
Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
65
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jack Morrison wrote:brinelan wrote:Plenty of new players stick around and fly t1 frigates as they skill up, and there are plenty of corps that take newer players. I don't see a problem. He just wants everything now...... Skilling for something new and finally getting it is both exciting and rewarding, something the veteran players don't have anymore, for them it is just 2% here and 1% there with taking skills to V. Enjoy while it lasts, if you are really inpatient though, grind some isk in FW/incursions (little skills needed in FW) and buy a toon in the bazaar. If you are however inpatient and lazy, then this game is definitely not for you - contract me your stuff and have fun elsewhere.
Bro, this is an alt, I'm a veteran who cares about the future of the game. |
Victor Andall
Complexes and Abaddons
161
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Then why do you talk like an entitled clueless noob?
No, really, I hate to contribute to the toxicity of the forums, but this is how I see it.
If a new player quits because he can't fly a Dominix during his first day we probably don't want him around anyway. I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?
Andall Combat Tournaments - on hiatus. Contact for more information. |
Conan edogawa
Confrerie de la Lumiere Confrerie de la Lumiere Alliance
11
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
I understand the idea and I can't agree with this, and this is why : When you start the game, you need some time to adapt, to explore menus, tools, etc... You can't just take a ship and GTFO of Empire, this would be insta pod and then yeah, ragequit.
I think this is good the way it is. They already deleted learning (GOTCHA 5' EM ALL !) and THIS, was a good thing for new players. Tons of corporations will accept you if they know you are going to pay an account. I learnt to play EVE at 9, and I wasn't English. I still play it and I'm 20, because I loved this game. I was in a corporation made by a 2 week old player and we had a Dominix in the team. I was like "Waow, I will never have this ship" and now I can just buy it whenever I want.
People need to learn before doing anything wrong, and this is why skills are good. Practicing against NPC leave you the time to train your cruiser/BC/BS and make some isk before joining the dark side of EVE. |
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Stonten
East Indian Corsairs Brothers of Tangra
0
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:Yeah, but plenty also quit. I'm guessing you weren't around for the learning skills? |
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
505
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 12:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:Jack Morrison wrote:brinelan wrote:Plenty of new players stick around and fly t1 frigates as they skill up, and there are plenty of corps that take newer players. I don't see a problem. He just wants everything now...... Skilling for something new and finally getting it is both exciting and rewarding, something the veteran players don't have anymore, for them it is just 2% here and 1% there with taking skills to V. Enjoy while it lasts, if you are really inpatient though, grind some isk in FW/incursions (little skills needed in FW) and buy a toon in the bazaar. If you are however inpatient and lazy, then this game is definitely not for you - contract me your stuff and have fun elsewhere. Bro, this is an alt, I'm a veteran who cares about the future of the game.
A veteran player who cares about the future of the game, yet doesn't care enough to follow the basic rules of the form?
This doesn't add up. Honor is a fools prize. Glory is of no use to the dead.
Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
11171
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
So let's say you instantly can be maxed a frigs from day one, now the play field is leveled for what, 6 months? a year? Then all those will be roaming in BC/BS doing havoc, would we need to up so that a one day pilot instantly can be maxed in a cruiser?
I think pilots become way better and more of a solid investment if they train into things rather than give them it from the start.
I think the retention of players is stronger with the slow process, but I don't have the numbers to claim it as a fact.
/c
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I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
1040
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
They did try giving new players free SP when they started for a while. If I remember right, was like 800k SPs. And it didn't last long. Why? Dunno, probably because it didn't work as planned or something. |
Jack Morrison
Sinister Spinster Advent of Fate
128
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:Jack Morrison wrote:brinelan wrote:Plenty of new players stick around and fly t1 frigates as they skill up, and there are plenty of corps that take newer players. I don't see a problem. He just wants everything now...... Skilling for something new and finally getting it is both exciting and rewarding, something the veteran players don't have anymore, for them it is just 2% here and 1% there with taking skills to V. Enjoy while it lasts, if you are really inpatient though, grind some isk in FW/incursions (little skills needed in FW) and buy a toon in the bazaar. If you are however inpatient and lazy, then this game is definitely not for you - contract me your stuff and have fun elsewhere. Bro, this is an alt, I'm a veteran who cares about the future of the game.
I am sorry if i hurt your bitterness, you were a pretty convincing noob looking player. If you care about the EVE future, take your time with new players, teach them to eve. |
Abernie
Massively Incompetent
153
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 12:37:00 -
[16] - Quote
Maybe we could have $60 purchase that gives you lvl90. No wait, I mean 100m SP. No need to grind and you get everything instantly. It's perfect! \o/
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Victor Andall
Complexes and Abaddons
161
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:Diamond Zerg wrote:Jack Morrison wrote:brinelan wrote:Plenty of new players stick around and fly t1 frigates as they skill up, and there are plenty of corps that take newer players. I don't see a problem. He just wants everything now...... Skilling for something new and finally getting it is both exciting and rewarding, something the veteran players don't have anymore, for them it is just 2% here and 1% there with taking skills to V. Enjoy while it lasts, if you are really inpatient though, grind some isk in FW/incursions (little skills needed in FW) and buy a toon in the bazaar. If you are however inpatient and lazy, then this game is definitely not for you - contract me your stuff and have fun elsewhere. Bro, this is an alt, I'm a veteran who cares about the future of the game. A veteran player who cares about the future of the game, yet doesn't care enough to follow the basic rules of the forum? This doesn't add up.
Or post with his main. I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?
Andall Combat Tournaments - on hiatus. Contact for more information. |
Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
65
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 12:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
What do you mean follow the rules of the forum? This is an enlightening, well reasoned and constructive thread.
Bittervets wanting to stomp noobs is not an argument against giving new players free SP.
New accounts getting SP would only encourage a lot of new people to join.
Chribba wrote:So let's say you instantly can be maxed a frigs from day one, now the play field is leveled for what, 6 months? a year? Then all those will be roaming in BC/BS doing havoc, would we need to up so that a one day pilot instantly can be maxed in a cruiser?
I think pilots become way better and more of a solid investment if they train into things rather than give them it from the start.
I think the retention of players is stronger with the slow process, but I don't have the numbers to claim it as a fact.
/c
What you're forgetting, Chribba is that progression is not linear. Battleships and BCs are somewhat niche these days, cruisers are used all the time for general pvp.
The objectives is not to make newbs on the same level as vets, it's to give them a decent number of options to encourage them to keep playing.
Training for Battleship class weapons is a lot more fun when you can fly cruisers while training. |
Karen Avioras
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
255
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 12:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
yes ofc, and while they do that, they can make everyone a warlord! |
Oblivion King
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
people still reply to his threads.. |
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
40
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Posted - 2014.02.24 13:04:00 -
[21] - Quote
Abernie wrote:Maybe we could have $60 purchase that gives you lvl90. No wait, I mean 100m SP. No need to grind and you get everything instantly. It's perfect! \o/
$60? ive been robbed i say if they want to buy sp they have to buy it at a set rate of training. so you can train what? 1.2m or something like that a month. make that 1.2m cost $15. Btw new people had sp at one point where you started out at 800k sp, i believe it caused some revolts among the older community, so than they dropped it down to a training boost and from what i heard new people no longer get that training boost unless they get a implant now "Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mine" -Dr. Smith |
hardifice
1
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Posted - 2014.02.24 13:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
This would remove value from T1 items as newer players wouldn't use them as a stepping stone to T2 when they get the training, and what would this mean, new player who has been grinding their account for 2-3 weeks to level skills, invite a friend and they are instantly ahead of them.
There are so many downsides, they've moved away from giving you lots of skill points to begin with and faster training times and I think it's for the better, the game has a progression speed that feels right. |
Anny Jackson
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2014.02.24 13:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:The problem is it just bumps the problem down the road to the next hurdle. Sure, if we went with your idea, newbies can dodge frigates (which is a bad idea imo) and fly cruisers straight out the box, but then they are only looking at battlecruisers with the same envious eyes, then battleships, then capitals. If a player can't tolerate the structure of EvE, and resents the slow progression system, it wont matter how far down the road we start them off, all they will see is the road stretched ahead.
And besides, as Jack says above, the biggest rush and feeling of accomplishment in the early game is getting in to that next ship. My first Battlecruiser, my first (properly skilled, we wont talk about the true first) Battleship, my first Stealth Bomber, my first HAC, finally getting my Dreadnaught - these were defining moments. Thats something you don't want to rush, because it quickly becomes "one percent this, one percent that, oh I suppose I might as well pick up that T2 weapon system I don't need right now, perhaps another race of T2 cruisers just in case".
Yeah, pretty much this. Perfectly explained. |
Charlie Firpol
Noob Mercs Monkeys with Guns.
126
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 13:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote: Training for Battleship class weapons is a lot more fun when you can fly cruisers while training.
Training for cruiser weapons is way more fun when you can fly a frigate, too. The problem isn-¦t new players having not enough SPs, its people telling new players they cant do anything in cheap frigates.
All that would happen when a new guy could fly a T2 cruiser after his first 2 weeks is, they would get pissed that they lose 40mil ISK every time they die in a T2 fit cruiser.
So take those guys, show them how to properly fly and fit a cheap meta T1 fit frigate and how to make a difference. Train them to be fearless and as soon as they can fly (and afford) T2 cruisers, they will be a much bigger help for you than a clueless 1 week old noob that jumps instead of holding and then cries on TS that he is broke again.
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Grunanca
Doughboys Shadow Cartel
155
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Posted - 2014.02.24 13:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jack Morrison wrote:brinelan wrote:Plenty of new players stick around and fly t1 frigates as they skill up, and there are plenty of corps that take newer players. I don't see a problem. He just wants everything now...... Skilling for something new and finally getting it is both exciting and rewarding, something the veteran players don't have anymore, for them it is just 2% here and 1% there with taking skills to V. Enjoy while it lasts, if you are really inpatient though, grind some isk in FW/incursions (little skills needed in FW) and buy a toon in the bazaar. If you are however inpatient and lazy, then this game is definitely not for you - contract me your stuff and have fun elsewhere.
Exactely... You can at any time buy a char on the bazaar and making the isk to buy a 20 mil or so char is not hard if you have the knowledge to fly said ships. I once made a new char to farm FW. I trained him for a month for stealth bombers, then over the next month made 13.5 billion with 2-4 hours of "work" per day. So get started, dont get lazy! We have all been there! |
Grunanca
Doughboys Shadow Cartel
155
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Posted - 2014.02.24 13:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:What do you mean follow the rules of the forum? This is an enlightening, well reasoned and constructive thread. Bittervets wanting to stomp noobs is not an argument against giving new players free SP. New accounts getting SP would only encourage a lot of new people to join. Chribba wrote:So let's say you instantly can be maxed a frigs from day one, now the play field is leveled for what, 6 months? a year? Then all those will be roaming in BC/BS doing havoc, would we need to up so that a one day pilot instantly can be maxed in a cruiser?
I think pilots become way better and more of a solid investment if they train into things rather than give them it from the start.
I think the retention of players is stronger with the slow process, but I don't have the numbers to claim it as a fact.
/c What you're forgetting, Chribba is that progression is not linear. Battleships and BCs are somewhat niche these days, cruisers are used all the time for general pvp.The objectives is not to make newbs on the same level as vets, it's to give them a decent number of options to encourage them to keep playing. Training for Battleship class weapons is a lot more fun when you can fly cruisers while training.
Lol what? BC and BS are a niche? I will politely join the crowd thinking you are a new player wanting it all. |
Charlie Firpol
Noob Mercs Monkeys with Guns.
126
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 13:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
Grunanca wrote: Lol what? BC and BS are a niche? I will politely join the crowd thinking you are a new player wanting it all.
As long as he is talking about lowsec, he is right. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
13944
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 13:37:00 -
[28] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:Hi. I'd like to propose a change that I think would be very good for EVE and attract a lot of new players.
Give new accounts free SP. One of the most common reasons newbies give up on EVE is that they see it will take 60+ days to fly an effective cruiser, and ragequit. The problem only gets worse when you consider higher level ships, or training other races' skills. Many prestigious corporations in EVE will require you to have a full T2 fit battleship, HAC, or even capital ship before they consider your application.
Add support skills into the mix (as a new player your drones do 20% less damage for example) and you have a really discouraging formula.
This IMO, as time goes by, will be EVE's biggest problem. New player retention.
And before you say it's the fault of the community, and that they don't support newbsGÇö it simply isn't true. Newbs are looked after very well by corporations like E-UNI and BNI. The help channels actively answer new players' questions, usually in a quick and helpful fashion.
Before you objectGÇö this would not cause imbalance. Having a bunch more t2 fit tier one cruisers in the game would make hardly any difference at all to the strategic landscape. New players would still be hundreds of days away from the heavy hitting ships like Dreadnoughts and Carriers. I'm not suggesting the training time for the top level stuff be reducedGÇö having more titan pilots in EVE would not be a good thing.
I'm suggesting that new players should start the game with the skills to fully t2 fit a frigate and cruiser of their choice. This would have minimal repercussions for veterans, and encourage a ton of new people to subscribe to the game.
The ganking community welcomes your message of support.
1 Kings 12:11
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19590
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Posted - 2014.02.24 13:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:One of the most common reasons newbies give up on EVE is that they see it will take 60+ days to fly an effective cruiser, and ragequit. Do you have anything to actually support this claim? Also, why is it a problem even if they do?
Quote:I'm suggesting that new players should start the game with the skills to fully t2 fit a frigate and cruiser of their choice. This would have minimal repercussions for veterans, and encourage a ton of new people to subscribe to the game. What is that supposed to solve? The new players will fall into one of two camps: those that don't know enough of the game to spend their SP wisely and end up with the same capability as they have now, but with much more expensive clones and a bunch of haphazardly arranged useless skills, and those who don't know enough about the game to keep themselves equipped with the ships and modules they've been given access to.
Do you also suggest that new players should start with 200M ISK to cover their first 10 ship and pod losses? What then? How will they pay for the 11th?
Oh, and I will definitely say that it's the fault of the community: they're the ones telling the newbies such nonsense as that it takes 60+ days to fly an effective cruiser, or that this is something the newbies should hurry towards. Instead, we should support them by teaching them how much they can do with surprisingly little, and what they can do to support their increasingly expensive lifestyles. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
431
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Posted - 2014.02.24 13:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
I'm still under a year old. There are plently of ships that I can't fly yet. In fact, I can't fly anything bigger than a Caldari BC yet.
Am I fed up with flying Frigs, Cruisers and BC's? No. Am I happy to be skilling up my support skills still and training for T2 and T3 ships whilst having decent core, defensive and offensive skills? Hells yes.
I find a sense of accomplishment within the game when a 20-30 day skill queue has finished. I find that having all those skills there means we can have goals, have something to aim for. The game doesn't get tedious for me because I am skilling for something I want. Then I look at all the skills that will help me with what I want and train them.
Obviously this is only my opinion. But there are far too many people that want instant gratification in a game. Aka be able to level up to top level in the first weekend of playing and be on par with players that have been playing years.
Once a skill is at V, its at the same level as that of the five/six year vets that kill you. If a new player can't accept that they wont be as good as the vets because they are new, then they arent right for this game. They will be the same people that complain they go into lowsec and get blown up when they don't consent to it.
Take time to go down the NC Q&A sub forum, there are plenty of new players in there that are actually pretty sound and willing to learn, and very few are whining that their SP restricts then. The people who do whine, well they've usually already cancelled their accounts and can't be spoken to because of their sence of entitlement. Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
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