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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1244
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Posted - 2014.02.24 18:42:00 -
[61] - Quote
From now on I'm just going to answer all threads about how newbies don't want to stay or can't compete and only get roflstomped by vets, or scammed out of the game, or whatever the "newbies won't stay in Eve" comment with this:
Brave ******* Newbies
I know violence isn't the answer. I got it wrong on purpose. |
AnotherUseless Alt
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2014.02.24 18:48:00 -
[62] - Quote
The question is: Do we need the self-serving, cheat enabled, instant gratification player that this will attract?
Fact is, there are a lot of them out there, and EvE needs new blood and more income. "Self help is all in your head" |
Vyl Vit
Cambio Enterprises
596
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Posted - 2014.02.24 19:09:00 -
[63] - Quote
Yeah. MMO shoppers want to speed their way to gankdom. They already can pawn. They're just hampered by the unreasonable time it takes to get the good gear.
Where have I heard this one before? Anyone with any sense has already left town. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1278
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Posted - 2014.02.24 19:10:00 -
[64] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:From now on I'm just going to answer all threads about how newbies don't want to stay or can't compete and only get roflstomped by vets, or scammed out of the game, or whatever the "newbies won't stay in Eve" comment with this:
Brave ******* Newbies
Dammit Mal! I was just getting ready to post IB4 Mal drops "Brave ******* Newbies!" on the thread.
Damn yous!!!!!
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
34
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Posted - 2014.02.24 19:20:00 -
[65] - Quote
Wow
what a ****** community |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4241
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Posted - 2014.02.24 19:47:00 -
[66] - Quote
New players are new.
They don't know what it was like before.
Start them off with zero SP (what I'd do) and they'll cry. Change it to 800k SP and they'll cry. Switch to 2x SP for the first month and they'll cry. Give them learning skills so they train faster and they cry. Get rid of learning skills to save them wasting SP and they cry. Do anything but give them an 'iWin' button and they cry.
See the pattern?
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Orlacc
623
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Posted - 2014.02.24 20:04:00 -
[67] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:Jack Morrison wrote:brinelan wrote:Plenty of new players stick around and fly t1 frigates as they skill up, and there are plenty of corps that take newer players. I don't see a problem. He just wants everything now...... Skilling for something new and finally getting it is both exciting and rewarding, something the veteran players don't have anymore, for them it is just 2% here and 1% there with taking skills to V. Enjoy while it lasts, if you are really inpatient though, grind some isk in FW/incursions (little skills needed in FW) and buy a toon in the bazaar. If you are however inpatient and lazy, then this game is definitely not for you - contract me your stuff and have fun elsewhere. Bro, this is an alt, I'm a veteran who cares about the future of the game.
No you are not. If you were you would remember learning skills. Removing them WAS giving new players SP.
"Measure Twice, Cut Once." |
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ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
372
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Posted - 2014.02.24 20:07:00 -
[68] - Quote
Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion. ISD Tyrozan Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL |
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2955
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Posted - 2014.02.24 21:23:00 -
[69] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Wow
what a ****** community You're right, reacting negatively to a heavy-handed "newbie friendly" solution to a non-existent problem makes us ******.
Never mind that it's near impossible to implement without slighting someone, not covering a use case, causing enormous economical problems, balance problems (let me just pull out my alts newbie friends here), and the raging sense of entitlement and expecting something for nothing that it encourages. On top of that, there is no evidence that I know of that "but I want to fly {shiny ship here} " is a common cause for quitting. If a player quits for that reason, it implicitly means they do not agree with Eve's spirit of "earn your place". Eve is healthy and growing as is, so I see no reason to want it to change to accommodate newbies who believe they are entitled to flying all ships, access to all corps/alliances, full abilities, all from the get-go with no effort.
But no, we're a ****** community.
Diamond Zerg wrote: Many prestigious corporations in EVE will require you to have a full T2 fit battleship, HAC, or even capital ship before they consider your application.
Side point, but you are aware that those requirements are there not because those ships are necessary, but because having them trained is an indicator of having dedicated a good amount of time to the game, and thus knowing your way around? Give newbies easy access to T2 fit battleships, or 100 mil SP to start with (for example) and "prestigious" corps will start demanding 100 kills on your killboard, or 5 billion ISK in the wallet, or 10 alts, and those same newbies you're trying to help will be left out all the same. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
72
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Posted - 2014.02.24 22:34:00 -
[70] - Quote
No Petrus, it's because to be viable in a wide array of combat situations you simply need those ships.
Being part of big fleets is not actually that skill intensive. Basically you just follow the FC's commands. If newbies simply had the SP, they could easily learn how to take part, and in doing so would gain much more awareness that they could use for small gang situations, or FCing themselves. |
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
298
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Posted - 2014.02.24 22:43:00 -
[71] - Quote
TBH my main still flies frigate class ships more than anything else. Newbies are far to subject to size envy.
HOWEVER, aside form anything else, if they really want a high SP character from the day they start playing, they can just go to the character bazaar and PLEX virtually anything all the way up to a Titan pilot. |
Cassia Aetius
Antumbra Corporation
18
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Posted - 2014.02.27 13:46:00 -
[72] - Quote
Victor Andall wrote:Cassia Aetius wrote:Victor Andall wrote:Then why do you talk like an entitled clueless noob?
No, really, I hate to contribute to the toxicity of the forums, but this is how I see it.
If a new player quits because he can't fly a Dominix during his first day we probably don't want him around anyway. "We" as in CCP? I doubt CCP shares your thoughts, regardless of who people are, and how they play, players = money in the bank. Unless I'm part of CCP and unaware of it then no. I did not mean that. Why would you even...
Then "we" really doesn't mean anything, what you meant to say was "I don't want those players in this game", which again, doesn't mean anything. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
219
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Posted - 2014.02.27 14:30:00 -
[73] - Quote
I still consider myself relatively new but can fly BS if I choose, I just haven't bothered yet as I have had no need to do so. I much prefer the smaller ships which any new player can work up to in a month or two. Note the use of the phrase 'work up to', Eve is pretty much a game where you need to earn things you want.
The SP speed of acquisition is pretty much in line with the learning curve in terms of game skills in my opinion and giving new players anything for free simply devalues the work others put in to earn those things prior to that point. |
Kane Fenris
NWP
143
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Posted - 2014.02.27 14:41:00 -
[74] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:Hi. I'd like to propose a change that I think would be very good for EVE and attract a lot of new players.
Give new accounts free SP. One of the most common reasons newbies give up on EVE is that they see it will take 60+ days to fly an effective cruiser, and ragequit. The problem only gets worse when you consider higher level ships, or training other races' skills. Many prestigious corporations in EVE will require you to have a full T2 fit battleship, HAC, or even capital ship before they consider your application.
Add support skills into the mix (as a new player your drones do 20% less damage for example) and you have a really discouraging formula.
This IMO, as time goes by, will be EVE's biggest problem. New player retention.
And before you say it's the fault of the community, and that they don't support newbsGÇö it simply isn't true. Newbs are looked after very well by corporations like E-UNI and BNI. The help channels actively answer new players' questions, usually in a quick and helpful fashion.
Before you objectGÇö this would not cause imbalance. Having a bunch more t2 fit tier one cruisers in the game would make hardly any difference at all to the strategic landscape. New players would still be hundreds of days away from the heavy hitting ships like Dreadnoughts and Carriers. I'm not suggesting the training time for the top level stuff be reducedGÇö having more titan pilots in EVE would not be a good thing.
I'm suggesting that new players should start the game with the skills to fully t2 fit a frigate and cruiser of their choice. This would have minimal repercussions for veterans, and encourage a ton of new people to subscribe to the game.
you cant give players enough free skillpoints without open up to abuse. what you can give away is every new pilot gets certain fixed skills already trained to basic lvls say 3 so he can pilot some basic ships and weapons right away. (depending on race) i would suport that
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Jureth22
Vanguard Frontiers Black Legion.
159
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Posted - 2014.02.27 16:21:00 -
[75] - Quote
brinelan wrote:Plenty of new players stick around and fly t1 frigates as they skill up, and there are plenty of corps that take newer players. I don't see a problem.
wrong.most new players want big ships with powerfull weapons. |
Batelle
HOMELE55
1962
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Posted - 2014.02.27 16:25:00 -
[76] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:Being part of big fleets is not actually that skill intensive. Basically you just follow the FC's commands. If newbies simply had the SP, they could easily learn how to take part, and in doing so would gain much more awareness that they could use for small gang situations, or FCing themselves.
Your third sentence seems completely contradictory to your first two. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Dave Stark
4444
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Posted - 2014.02.27 17:00:00 -
[77] - Quote
yes, please make it easier for me to make 51 day gank alts. |
Ice Dealer
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
21
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Posted - 2014.02.27 17:16:00 -
[78] - Quote
What if instead of raw skill points that players new to eve could be confused with and waist, what if you had the tutorial hand out levels of the useful skills. for example, what if you had a starter agent in gunnery that was "small arms 1/5" each of the missions upon completion gives you +1 level to small turret x or standard missile launcher depending on your race or what you choose? It would feel more like the agent was actually teaching you.
This also would help hinder alt creation taking advantage of free skill points. (If I got 1 m skillpoints I could have an instant cyno alt, pi alt, ect.) However, a rookie learning PI should be given the skills quickly so they keep interest in the game and they can learn faster. Currently they have to "wait to learn" many aspects of the game. Most players in eve seem to be a smarter, more tech savy group of players, holding them back just frustrates.
I also understand that there are implant accelerators, but to a rookie they are still very slow. Even if this were to replace them, I feel the new player could thrive from this.
Just my 2 cents :) |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
222
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Posted - 2014.02.27 18:39:00 -
[79] - Quote
A player can learn any of the basic skills to lvl III within hours, I learnt the PI skills I use now within about 2 days. Skill training really isn't that slow and if a new player is running through the career agents they get the basic skillbooks anyway and train the skills whilst running the 'training' missions. If new players don't stay it isn't because of the training it is because the game doesn't suit them. give them 1 million SP up front and they would complain that they needed 2 million! |
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope Gallente Federation
119
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Posted - 2014.02.27 19:15:00 -
[80] - Quote
It should be spelled out to newbies that you must specialize first. Identify what you'd like to do in the game and focus on those skills so you can do what you want right away. What they do now is put you in a pod with hardpoints and shove you out an airlock. Eva isn't trollish enough, a Gladdos approach of harassment and derision to get people to train a few core skills to 2 would work wonders. Get some Eve. Make it yours.
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Callic Veratar
584
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Posted - 2014.02.27 19:22:00 -
[81] - Quote
I remember as a new player, getting into a thrasher and covering with civilian autocannons, shield boosters, armor reppers, and hull reppers because they didn't use ammo, wanted to save money, and needed all my systems repaired. It doesn't matter how much SP you give me as a new character, it would have been invested poorly and really hurt the understanding of the skill system.
By starting at 0 and gaining about 2/3 sp/s it forces you to plan and look at skills because you need to think ahead. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1136
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Posted - 2014.02.27 19:24:00 -
[82] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Wow
what a ****** community wow
what a ****** comment EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
SB Rico
The Lone Runners
241
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Posted - 2014.02.28 19:25:00 -
[83] - Quote
OK in an attempt to offer a balanced view...
1. It wasn't Many years ago we all started with 850k characters with a pre determined set of skills.
2. CCP has since changed this to having an accelerated training queue for a month with a lower starting SP
Now the current system allows much more freedom in assigning the skillpoints so that after 1 month you could potentially have a much more useable character than if you had been under the old system (learning skills aside).
I feel a but coming on.
BUT does a truly new player actually have the understanding of how to create this superior character?
Probably not so we rely on the community and their finding a corp to advise them on how to take advantage of this first 30 days
Now accepting this last statement as true then would a new player benefit from having, say, 1 million freely assignable SP on day one?
NO, the people who would benefit are those making alt characters who already possess some knowledge of the important skills. In fact it is likely that a new player will rapidly assign this SP with no knowledge of what to do with it.
The additional question comes in where do they get the skillbooks they need?
Do they have to wait till they have isk? Are a pre-determined set of skills automatically available till that SP is assigned? Can they assign it randomly to any skill in game?
So realistically I would propose the better question for CCP to ask itself is... should the system revert to the 850k pre-builds or remain as is. Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.
Killing me should be for free. |
Pew Terror
Green Associates
99
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Posted - 2014.02.28 19:54:00 -
[84] - Quote
New players should really be able to fly one half T2 fitted frigate of their starting race. Also the tutorial missions should hand out a couple of different real life fitted frigates for that purpose (brawl/kite/etc variants) to get a feel for the game without starting EFT before being able to undock.
No matter what anyone says EvE is unplayable before you can do that and it wouldnt hurt anyone selling specialized characters. |
Meandering Milieu
FML LLC
4
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Posted - 2014.02.28 21:01:00 -
[85] - Quote
I remember when I started my first character, a mining character. Back before I understood anything, back before I knew what different markets were, or jita was.
I sold my ore outright for a pittance, even though back then mineral prices were far lower than they are now. I mined in a Bantam (iirc, since the changes I've forgetten all the mining frigs outside of the navitas. ) . My isk hauls were measured not in hundreds of thousands, or millions, but tens of thousands.
It took me an entire day of playing, easily 8 hours, to grind my isk for a catalyst, because cruisers were multimillion hulls I couldn't fathom affording. The catalyst was a bad investment to boot, when I realized between my skills and fitting restrictions on the ship that there was no way I could possibly fit as many lasers as I thought I could to it.
It was still an upgrade though at the time. It then took me a similar grind to get my first hauler.
Eventually I got taken in by a corp of mostly noobs or casuals. By time I stopped subbing that character, I flew a hulk, spent a lot of my time in lowsec, manufactured, had perfect refines, and a PI empire that brought me billions.
Now I live alone, soloing life in a 1 man corp, running missions, with only public chat channels to keep me company. I grind a plex per month, and train skills, with the hopes of doing things that I will probably never be enthusiastic enough to actually do. In a sense the game is better and easier for me than it ever was. Living that existance, mining in a bantam or cata, making maybe 1.2 million isk per day if I were to grind all day, would be eternal living hell for me now.
At the same time, I have never had more wonder or awe at the game than at that time. It was never more mysterious or interesting. I have never once in my time playing since leaving that corp, had as much fun. Literally no game I ever played kept me as interested, immersed, or captivated as eve has with a Bantam. Nothing ever gave me the thrill of my first scam like eve. Nothing ever gave me the satisfaction of min/maxxing my PI empire, running gatecamps with 300m worth of PI in a nanoed mammoth, or getting popped in my prowler at a bubble camp out in syndicate. No other game gave me the sense of community and fun I had while in that corp, actively looking forward to logging in to see how everyone is doing.
The pure nostalgia, fun, wonder at seeing a battleship up close for the first time, the tension of getting jumped at a gate for the first time, the absolute amazement of jumping into my first wormhole, to spend hours probing down all the sites, with my terrible skills, only to not run any of them, or to grab a single cycle of high end ore just to come back and show my corp I did it, this is all lost now. I don't think I can ever get it back.
And yet Eve is still an amazing game. It is still fun. I still accomplish new things. I still make plans to do things I've never done before. I'm still here.
SP is irrelevant to player retention. It is irrelevant to the fun of the game, and so is isk, ships, skills, and content. I've probably never had more fun in any ship than I had in my Bantam when I first joined. And it is still there, in the hanger of the station I originally started in. I could never bring myself to get rid of it. If I ever resub that account, the first thing I will probably do is go spin it in station, and go mine some scordite, for old times.
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Hatsumi Kobayashi
Origin. Black Legion.
442
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Posted - 2014.02.28 21:31:00 -
[86] - Quote
I AM A LEVEL 90 PALADIN AND I APPROVE OP'S SUGGESTIONS No sig. |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
259
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Posted - 2014.02.28 22:39:00 -
[87] - Quote
I would rather make the first... 90.000 (dunno how much it actual is?) SP free to apply.
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Sylveria Relden
Spartan Shipyards THE H0NEYBADGER
20
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Posted - 2014.03.01 03:05:00 -
[88] - Quote
OP is demonstrating a prime example of the sense of "instant gratification and entitlement" in this day and age.
Horrible idea. |
Doireen Kaundur
Riftmage
65
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Posted - 2014.03.01 04:56:00 -
[89] - Quote
I think new players need extra remaps instead of SP. It takes awhile before you figure out what you really need to train and by that time, you would have already burned through your remaps just experimenting. A year wait is a long time for a remap. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
260
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Posted - 2014.03.01 05:03:00 -
[90] - Quote
What happened to those neural enhancers they gave new pilots? they increased attributes and a few other things. or did someone already mention that? |
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