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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
242
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:39:00 -
[451] - Quote
In the camp of 'Need to see the cruisers and BS before being able to have much of an opinion.'
Changes are interesting, but need to see who they translate up. The Law is a point of View |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1016
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:39:00 -
[452] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:WORM
Gallente Frigate Bonus: 10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 4% to al shield resistances
Role Bonus: 100% to drone, rocket and light missile damage
dronebay is 25/25 still
no limitations in its dronebay no limitations in the drone type, it should be a general thing.... This is literal garbage compared to whats proposed, just stop Bonus wise it's better in every way, to the point of being severely OP I'd think. Only think it lacks is room for spares. |
Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
161
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:40:00 -
[453] - Quote
obligue me, im gonna keep posting until there's a general concensus, but those **** bonuses in the OP need to be taken off |
Mardus Rial
Ireco Industries Zombie Pony Express
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:40:00 -
[454] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Ganthrithor wrote:
- I really don't get the Guristas theme change: OK, sure, the ships will do as much damage using two drones as an un-bonused ship would do with six, but you're still doing (and absorbing!) LESS damage at the end of the day than a bonused drone boat does with five drones
A bonused ship does 7.5 effective drones worth of effective damage and has the same in hitpoints. The revised worm does 8 effective drones worth while increasing the survivability of individual drones even more significantly.
Yeah, but the problem comes when somebody targets one of your drones and starts to kill it- you lose half of your DPS. Having to pull drones or get drones popped is already super annoying for Drone pilots, this idea will make that even worse- basically, this idea is a huge back-handed nerf to ships that just needed a little touch up to keep them on par with Gallente drone ships. (Well, the Worm needed a little more than Gila or Rattler do...either way, this totally does not seem like the way to go.) |
Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
161
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:41:00 -
[455] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:WORM
Gallente Frigate Bonus: 10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 4% to al shield resistances
Role Bonus: 100% to drone, rocket and light missile damage
dronebay is 25/25 still
no limitations in its dronebay no limitations in the drone type, it should be a general thing.... This is literal garbage compared to whats proposed, just stop Bonus wise it's better in every way, to the point of being severely OP I'd think. Only think it lacks is room for spares.
that could be compensated by increasing the dronebay to 25/50, allows for an aditional flight of light drones, and some other nasty things |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1103
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:41:00 -
[456] - Quote
Mardus Rial wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Ganthrithor wrote:
- I really don't get the Guristas theme change: OK, sure, the ships will do as much damage using two drones as an un-bonused ship would do with six, but you're still doing (and absorbing!) LESS damage at the end of the day than a bonused drone boat does with five drones
A bonused ship does 7.5 effective drones worth of effective damage and has the same in hitpoints. The revised worm does 8 effective drones worth while increasing the survivability of individual drones even more significantly. Yeah, but the problem comes when somebody targets one of your drones and starts to kill it- you lose half of your DPS. Having to pull drones or get drones popped is already super annoying for Drone pilots, this idea will make that even worse- basically, this idea is a huge back-handed nerf to ships that just needed a little touch up to keep them on par with Gallente drone ships. (Well, the Worm needed a little more than Gila or Rattler do...either way, this totally does not seem like the way to go.)
It takes them nearly as long to kill that one drone as it would take to kill an entire flight right now. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2305
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:43:00 -
[457] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:WORM
Gallente Frigate Bonus: 10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 4% to al shield resistances
Role Bonus: 100% to drone, rocket and light missile damage
dronebay is 25/25 still
no limitations in its dronebay no limitations in the drone type, it should be a general thing.... This is literal garbage compared to whats proposed, just stop Bonus wise it's better in every way, to the point of being severely OP I'd think. Only think it lacks is room for spares.
No its not, the drones in the OP hit harder, and have more hit points, yours does absolutely nothing better in any regard except your drones are faster, at which point who cares - WOO LOOK AT ME MAH MY DRONES GO FAST.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1016
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:44:00 -
[458] - Quote
Mardus Rial wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Ganthrithor wrote:
- I really don't get the Guristas theme change: OK, sure, the ships will do as much damage using two drones as an un-bonused ship would do with six, but you're still doing (and absorbing!) LESS damage at the end of the day than a bonused drone boat does with five drones
A bonused ship does 7.5 effective drones worth of effective damage and has the same in hitpoints. The revised worm does 8 effective drones worth while increasing the survivability of individual drones even more significantly. Yeah, but the problem comes when somebody targets one of your drones and starts to kill it- you lose half of your DPS. Having to pull drones or get drones popped is already super annoying for Drone pilots, this idea will make that even worse- basically, this idea is a huge back-handed nerf to ships that just needed a little touch up to keep them on par with Gallente drone ships. (Well, the Worm needed a little more than Gila or Rattler do...either way, this totally does not seem like the way to go.) I'm not terribly PvP experienced so I can't say if a drone with 400% HP vs 150% has the survivability to not need immediate recall, but if it doesn't, it means more flexibility before a recall becomes necessary. With lights I doubt the difference will be terribly significant at times, but as you translate to large drones I'd imagine the help to be significant. |
Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
161
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:45:00 -
[459] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:WORM
Gallente Frigate Bonus: 10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 4% to al shield resistances
Role Bonus: 100% to drone, rocket and light missile damage
dronebay is 25/25 still
no limitations in its dronebay no limitations in the drone type, it should be a general thing.... This is literal garbage compared to whats proposed, just stop Bonus wise it's better in every way, to the point of being severely OP I'd think. Only think it lacks is room for spares. No its not, the drones in the OP hit harder, and have more hit points, yours does absolutely nothing better in any regard except your drones are faster, at which point who cares - WOO LOOK AT ME MAH MY DRONES GO FAST.
you gotta be kidding, 300% damage and hitpoints is absurd, and that for compensating with a garbage kin/therm bonus for missiles along with a nerf to its bandwidth, ***** please..... |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1016
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:45:00 -
[460] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:WORM
Gallente Frigate Bonus: 10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 4% to al shield resistances
Role Bonus: 100% to drone, rocket and light missile damage
dronebay is 25/25 still
no limitations in its dronebay no limitations in the drone type, it should be a general thing.... This is literal garbage compared to whats proposed, just stop Bonus wise it's better in every way, to the point of being severely OP I'd think. Only think it lacks is room for spares. No its not, the drones in the OP hit harder, and have more hit points, yours does absolutely nothing better in any regard except your drones are faster, at which point who cares - WOO LOOK AT ME MAH MY DRONES GO FAST. 1st, not my suggestion 2nd, 10 effective drones > 8 (Note the role bonus) |
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Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2305
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:47:00 -
[461] - Quote
Silivar Karkun wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:WORM
Gallente Frigate Bonus: 10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 4% to al shield resistances
Role Bonus: 100% to drone, rocket and light missile damage
dronebay is 25/25 still
no limitations in its dronebay no limitations in the drone type, it should be a general thing.... This is literal garbage compared to whats proposed, just stop Bonus wise it's better in every way, to the point of being severely OP I'd think. Only think it lacks is room for spares. No its not, the drones in the OP hit harder, and have more hit points, yours does absolutely nothing better in any regard except your drones are faster, at which point who cares - WOO LOOK AT ME MAH MY DRONES GO FAST. you gotta be kidding, 300% damage and hitpoints is absurd, and that for compensating with a garbage kin/therm bonus for missiles along with a nerf to its bandwidth, ***** please.....
I have come to the conclusion that you know nothing jon snow
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
342
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:49:00 -
[462] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:WORM
Gallente Frigate Bonus: 10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 4% to al shield resistances
Role Bonus: 100% to drone, rocket and light missile damage
dronebay is 25/25 still
no limitations in its dronebay no limitations in the drone type, it should be a general thing.... This is literal garbage compared to whats proposed, just stop Bonus wise it's better in every way, to the point of being severely OP I'd think. Only think it lacks is room for spares. No its not, the drones in the OP hit harder, and have more hit points, yours does absolutely nothing better in any regard except your drones are faster, at which point who cares - WOO LOOK AT ME MAH MY DRONES GO FAST. Mardus Rial wrote:
Yeah, but the problem comes when somebody targets one of your drones and starts to kill it- you lose half of your DPS. Having to pull drones or get drones popped is already super annoying for Drone pilots, this idea will make that even worse- basically, this idea is a huge back-handed nerf to ships that just needed a little touch up to keep them on par with Gallente drone ships. (Well, the Worm needed a little more than Gila or Rattler do...either way, this totally does not seem like the way to go.)
Yea, good luck killing a 2500-2700 hp light drone in a fight with the ship thats trying to kill you, oh, and after you kill that one, he's got 4 more for you to kill, the whole time he's chewing on you. I wish you luck. You're going to need it.
I will take a speed bonus to drones on a frigate over extra damage any day.
|
Mardus Rial
Ireco Industries Zombie Pony Express
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:50:00 -
[463] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Mardus Rial wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Ganthrithor wrote:
- I really don't get the Guristas theme change: OK, sure, the ships will do as much damage using two drones as an un-bonused ship would do with six, but you're still doing (and absorbing!) LESS damage at the end of the day than a bonused drone boat does with five drones
A bonused ship does 7.5 effective drones worth of effective damage and has the same in hitpoints. The revised worm does 8 effective drones worth while increasing the survivability of individual drones even more significantly. Yeah, but the problem comes when somebody targets one of your drones and starts to kill it- you lose half of your DPS. Having to pull drones or get drones popped is already super annoying for Drone pilots, this idea will make that even worse- basically, this idea is a huge back-handed nerf to ships that just needed a little touch up to keep them on par with Gallente drone ships. (Well, the Worm needed a little more than Gila or Rattler do...either way, this totally does not seem like the way to go.) It takes them nearly as long to kill that one drone as it would take to kill an entire flight right now. And until its dead, its going full dps, and you have another 3 spares.
Which isn't long enough, lol. Another problem with the "less but more powerful drones" theory is that if you are missing your target at all your DPS is going to go out the window.
The "Less drones with more (and by more, we mean the same) power" theory is a total back-handed nerf....and really startling to read after the Gallente drone boats just got such an awesome lift. If they wan't to give the Guristas boats something new that Gallente ships don't have, then give them an outright HP bonus or something. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1103
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:52:00 -
[464] - Quote
Mardus Rial wrote: Which isn't long enough, lol. Another problem with the "less but more powerful drones" theory is that if you are missing your target at all your DPS is going to go out the window.
Yes, missing your target makes your dps go down. I dont see how that is different from now. |
Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
161
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:52:00 -
[465] - Quote
its very simple:
your drones will have 50% better tracking and 50% extra speed
you will have 10 drones basically
you punch an extra with the power of 4 launchers and not limited to two damage types only
if the dronebay is increased to be 25/50 you have an extra flight of lights in case you loose the others....
the tradeoff here is that drones will get less HP i can change that too with the role bonus |
Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
161
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:53:00 -
[466] - Quote
here:
WORM
Gallente Frigate Bonus: 10% to drone tracking, optimal and microwarpdrive speed
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 4% to al shield resistances
Role Bonus: 100% to drone damage and hitpoints, rocket and light missile damage
bandwitdth and bay are 25/50 |
woodall
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:55:00 -
[467] - Quote
Silivar Karkun wrote:its very simple:
your drones will have 50% better tracking and 50% extra speed
you will have 10 drones basically
you punch an extra with the power of 4 launchers and not limited to two damage types only
if the dronebay is increased to be 25/50 you have an extra flight of lights in case you loose the others....
the tradeoff here is that drones will get less HP i can change that too with the role bonus
You are literally insane. You seem to think that its balanced having a frig do just short of 300 dps with no damage mods whatsoever (an enyo can only achieve that with void fitted and a magstab). not only do you have that much dps, but you want a huge bonus to the damage application of 2/3's of it on top. How on earth can you think that is balanced.
|
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:56:00 -
[468] - Quote
Silivar Karkun wrote:here:
WORM
Gallente Frigate Bonus: 10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 4% to al shield resistances
Role Bonus: 100% to drone damage and hitpoints, rocket and light missile damage
bandwitdth and bay are 25/50
So... a 400 DPS tanky frigate. Not balanced. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2305
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:57:00 -
[469] - Quote
Marcel Devereux wrote:[
I will take a speed bonus to drones on a frigate over extra damage any day.
Ok so real talk without being insulting but do you know why i hate drone speed bonuses? Because they're honestly right next to useless because of basic drone behavior.
The drone MWD's hellafast after its target right? Catching most things easy (Warriors already do, most people like these bonuses so they can have Hobs act like Warriors) but once the stupid drone catches up and starts shooting ....it stops mwding.
So theres this permanent cycle of speed---> coast--->speed ---->coast. It generally means that the damn drone is firing in falloff for almost every shot except for the ones its taking at mwd speed, and those have tracking issues so the damage you get is slightly less than you expect.
With an outright drone damage bonus your target may outrun your drones but the chances of him doing that in an orbit where he's applying damage to you are fairly low, or rather the damage he's applying to you will be low since he'll have to be moving fairly fast to outrun something like a warrior (even a hobgoblin does 4200 m/s with skills, warriors do 6300)
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
161
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:57:00 -
[470] - Quote
woodall wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:its very simple:
your drones will have 50% better tracking and 50% extra speed
you will have 10 drones basically
you punch an extra with the power of 4 launchers and not limited to two damage types only
if the dronebay is increased to be 25/50 you have an extra flight of lights in case you loose the others....
the tradeoff here is that drones will get less HP i can change that too with the role bonus You are literally insane. You seem to think that its balanced having a frig do just short of 300 dps with no damage mods whatsoever (an enyo can only achieve that with void fitted and a magstab). not only do you have that much dps, but you want a huge bonus to the damage application of 2/3's of it on top. How on earth can you think that is balanced.
oh but its not insane to think in drones with 3 times their damage and HP.....that's not insane..... |
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Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
161
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:58:00 -
[471] - Quote
Victoria Thorne wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:here:
WORM
Gallente Frigate Bonus: 10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 4% to al shield resistances
Role Bonus: 100% to drone damage and hitpoints, rocket and light missile damage
bandwitdth and bay are 25/50 So... a 400 DPS tanky frigate. Not balanced.
i can nerf the role bonus then to 50% |
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
342
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:58:00 -
[472] - Quote
woodall wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:its very simple:
your drones will have 50% better tracking and 50% extra speed
you will have 10 drones basically
you punch an extra with the power of 4 launchers and not limited to two damage types only
if the dronebay is increased to be 25/50 you have an extra flight of lights in case you loose the others....
the tradeoff here is that drones will get less HP i can change that too with the role bonus You are literally insane. You seem to think that its balanced having a frig do just short of 300 dps with no damage mods whatsoever (an enyo can only achieve that with void fitted and a magstab). not only do you have that much dps, but you want a huge bonus to the damage application of 2/3's of it on top. How on earth can you think that is balanced.
To top it off he wants it to have a tank bonus. Either it has a double damage bonus or it has a damage bonus and a tank bonus. Having a double damage bonus and a tank bonus will be OP. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1103
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:59:00 -
[473] - Quote
Silivar Karkun wrote:Victoria Thorne wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:here:
WORM
Gallente Frigate Bonus: 10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 4% to al shield resistances
Role Bonus: 100% to drone damage and hitpoints, rocket and light missile damage
bandwitdth and bay are 25/50 So... a 400 DPS tanky frigate. Not balanced. i can nerf the role bonus then to 50%
You are just randomly spitting out numbers. Just stop. |
Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
161
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:00:00 -
[474] - Quote
here:
WORM
Gallente Frigate Bonus: 10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 4% to al shield resistances
Role Bonus: 50% to drone damage and hitpoints, rocket and light missile damage
bandwitdth and bay are 25/50
enough? |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
520
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:01:00 -
[475] - Quote
try using 8km/s warriors vs a linked snaked kiting frigate. your drones are capable of going far faster than the target, but you'll have difficulty breaking the recharge on their mse. this is a problem with drones, and CCP are unwilling to fix it because nobody cares about it except me. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2305
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:05:00 -
[476] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:try using 8km/s warriors vs a linked snaked kiting frigate. your drones are capable of going far faster than the target, but you'll have difficulty breaking the recharge on their mse. this is a problem with drones, and CCP are unwilling to fix it because nobody cares about it except me.
Exactly what I'm talking about.
Speed doesn't help when the drone itself is mentally handicapped.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Lusian
Kenshin. Against ALL Authorities
2
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:06:00 -
[477] - Quote
For crying out loud CCP. Why don't you make new ship designs and keep the old ones. The new ship designed will have all the bonus's the older ships should need.
It would be a lot easier for you guys to throw new ship designs in instead of messing around with the old stuff. In the military new hardware and tech are made all the time. Why can't we do the same in eve?
It is not going to hurt the game to say ok we have ships that are not what they used to be but some layers still like to use them. The new ship designs with the better stats the older ships should have is not a bad thing. It is ok to keep the old stuff in while the new stuff does it's thing.
In reality we make better and newer vehicles, better planes. Things are constantly being replaced by new stuff because it is better. It is ok to put new ships in instead of trying to re balance something that is not going to keep up. Try it some time.
Make a patch that adds new ships with the specks that the older pout dated ships should have been. Or better even. The
Try it. |
Anaphylacti
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
18
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:10:00 -
[478] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:
We need a missile based pirate faction - yes! We didn't want to use an existing faction for this for a few different reasons (Imagine the rage if Angel turned into missiles or Guristas just became Caldari), but we would like to address it as soon as possible. I don't know when that will be, but it won't be never.
Minmattar/Caldari cruiser and battleship with a bonus to missile reload speed or missile bay ammo capacity |
Dark'Rai
Angelic Eclipse.
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:12:00 -
[479] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:because that's what ISIS says .... shield tanked and masters of projectiles
ISIS also says that to be mastered in a Vangel you require max Medium Energy Turrets. Yea ISIS great job m8. But we all know that the Vangel is a turret ship right?
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woodall
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:15:00 -
[480] - Quote
Silivar Karkun wrote:here:
WORM
Gallente Frigate Bonus: 10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 4% to al shield resistances
Role Bonus: 50% to drone damage and hitpoints, rocket and light missile damage
bandwitdth and bay are 25/50
enough?
Please, Im trying to not be too nasty here but just stop please. I dont think you are actually doing the numbers behind your claims so ill take the liberty of doing them for you. A set of hobs with a 50% damage bonus will do 150 dps which by itself is pretty respectable for a frig. then to add onto that you wish to increase the dps by a further 50-60 or so from missile dps. so now you are equalling the dps of a daredevil/enyo. Then in even more addition to that, you want to have a tank bonus AND a large damage application bonus. You cant get everything at once mate, you have to make a compromise.
I think the changes proposed by rise are interesting, I wont make a definitive stance as of yet. But even as it has been stated I think it might be doing a bit too much dps.
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