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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Batelle
HOMELE55
2062
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 20:34:00 -
[1171] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Seriously though I love the lore but there's nothing about putting afterburners on sansha ships that conflicts with any kind of lore.
I'm not saying there is. I'm saying that it's not good that he hasn't even consulted the lore or its keepers, and that he should probably do that.[/quote]
How do you know he hasn't? "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1041
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 20:38:00 -
[1172] - Quote
Batelle wrote:How do you know he hasn't?
The paragraph I quoted strongly implies that either he hasn't, or he has and decided it didn't apply. Did you read it, or are you just firing off one-liners? Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Batelle
HOMELE55
2063
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 20:46:00 -
[1173] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:Quote: If the drone bonus is on the Gallente skill you are essentially required to have that skill to 5 which we would rather avoid.
How is it required any more than the other level based bonus? I would bet most ships are flown without every effecting skill to V. If no one thought a ship was worth flying until they have the racial hull skill to V, everyone would have quit before they got into their first frigate.
Not even the other pirate BS have a skill that gives 10% damage per level. Getting the hull skill to 5 asap has always been critical on drone boats. I guess he thinks its more an issue on a pirate boat. I would agree with this. Flying a gila/RS with the gal skill at 4 is a bit gimp, moreso than on other ships. But I see your point too.
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:Quote:As for having the missile bonus at all, we preferred giving the option of very high damage output to Guristas over giving more specialized drone bonuses that would either overlap with other ships or not be very useful.
You mean you don't want drone bonuses to overlap with the other really good drone boats? This is why split weapons ships are dumb. Jack of all trades and master of none. The drones hit hard but are slow and inaccurate compared to other drone boats. The missles hit hard, but only to the 2 most commonly resisted damage types, and have no other bonuses common to other missile boats.
Drone boats were good before the Ishtar and Domi got rebalanced you know. Since rebalancing, split weapon system ships have been toned down a bit, but those that remain are dps monsters. Like the navy domi. And if you have the SP, they're pretty awesome (see all versions of the typhoon since forever). The 50% missile damage bonus will let gurista ships become the dps monsters that other pirate ships are. All without giving up the very powerful tanking bonus. I'm pretty stoked about that.
Also, giving the rattlesnake drone damage, shield resistance, and the sentry range/tracking bonus, along with 7 mids and 6 lows would just be wtf OP. The missile bonus is a lot weaker, but its probably a better option. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
181
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 20:49:00 -
[1174] - Quote
I had a whole post prepared about lore, flavour, uniqueness and power that combines to make the pirate ships but instead:
- Sansha needs work - Cruor needs Minmatarbonus changed to: 20% range to modules requiring propulsion jamming skill per level - Worm, DD, Dram are fine
TL,DR: Cruor needs web and scram bonus to balance low mobility. |
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
98
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 20:52:00 -
[1175] - Quote
He probably should have or should now consult the lore keepers. That being said, he isn't wrong in his assessment of Sansha lore. None of the proposed changes conflicts with the existing lore for any of the pirate factions. Any complaints specifically regarding lore should are covers for other agendas or based on an individual players "vision" of what a certain faction should be.
Lore complaints are right up there with "I want 5 drones because... I just want 5 drones!" The people spewing them are derailing the thread and complaining because things aren't going the way they had assumed they would. In all reality they are making it harder for people with legit concerns about the Worm/Succubus/Crour to be taken seriously. They are hurting their cause. |
Joe Boirele
Lords 0f Justice Lords Of Stars
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 20:57:00 -
[1176] - Quote
DISCLAIMER: I don't do much flying around in pirate frigates, because they cost a lot.
First of all, I rather like the worm bonuses. They manage to make the worm's drones useful, without overlapping on all the other droneboats in the game. I also like that worm is getting a missile bonus that works well with the tank bonus. Succumbus's bonuses are also fine I think, because generally I just hear about how people should fit MWD's to their [insert ship here], and a few more AB ships will add flavor. Cruror's bonuses are making you more able to either kite or brawl, which I think will encourage variability. Then again, I don't have much experience fitting or flying said pirate frigates, so my opinions may be complete ****. Enemies are just friends who stab you in the front.
Might makes right! |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1041
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 21:06:00 -
[1177] - Quote
Batelle wrote:I don't think what he said implies that at all, although its entirely possible that he hasn't consulted with them. In the paragraph you're talking about he specifically says "...don't have a lot of flavor associated with their actual gameplay," which is the matter at hand anyway.
And which the Sansha roleplayers here seem to have a problem with. If anything, there's not a lot of flavor associated with actual gameplay because the Succubus and the Phantasm never got any actual gameplay, except as red crosses. The one ship that did is the Nightmare, which is a lumbering engine of death at long range.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1026
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 21:10:00 -
[1178] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:How is it required any more than the other level based bonus? I would bet most ships are flown without every effecting skill to V. If no one thought a ship was worth flying until they have the racial hull skill to V, everyone would have quit before they got into their first frigate.
Not even the other pirate BS have a skill that gives 10% damage per level. Getting the hull skill to 5 asap has always been critical on drone boats. I guess he thinks its more an issue on a pirate boat. I would agree with this. Flying a gila/RS with the gal skill at 4 is a bit gimp, moreso than on other ships. But I see your point too. Well, considering the strength of the bonus it makes the gap between entering the ship and fully skilled enormous unless the bonus is partially split between role and level bonuses. Without that split your talking about a 60%/lvl bonus if the whole thing is placed in the Gallente skill. And if you need to split it to make it work, why bother? |
Batelle
HOMELE55
2068
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 21:19:00 -
[1179] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Batelle wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:How is it required any more than the other level based bonus? I would bet most ships are flown without every effecting skill to V. If no one thought a ship was worth flying until they have the racial hull skill to V, everyone would have quit before they got into their first frigate.
Not even the other pirate BS have a skill that gives 10% damage per level. Getting the hull skill to 5 asap has always been critical on drone boats. I guess he thinks its more an issue on a pirate boat. I would agree with this. Flying a gila/RS with the gal skill at 4 is a bit gimp, moreso than on other ships. But I see your point too. Well, considering the strength of the bonus it makes the gap between entering the ship and fully skilled enormous unless the bonus is partially split between role and level bonuses.
I don't understand this. 300% role bonus as proposed on the worm, no split, what's the problem? "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
296
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 21:24:00 -
[1180] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:I'm not saying there is. I'm saying that it's not good that he hasn't even consulted the lore or its keepers, and that he should probably do that.
As far as the ship itself goes, I love the Succubus. It might not be the most ~optimal~ frigate, but it's going to be hella fun to fly.
He didn't say that he hasn't consulted anyone on Lore, he said he's not aware of any Lore issues with that, and honestly having spent way too many hours shooting Sansha in Incursions their ships are *really* freaking fast. IMO this works perfectly. |
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1026
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 21:24:00 -
[1181] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Batelle wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:How is it required any more than the other level based bonus? I would bet most ships are flown without every effecting skill to V. If no one thought a ship was worth flying until they have the racial hull skill to V, everyone would have quit before they got into their first frigate.
Not even the other pirate BS have a skill that gives 10% damage per level. Getting the hull skill to 5 asap has always been critical on drone boats. I guess he thinks its more an issue on a pirate boat. I would agree with this. Flying a gila/RS with the gal skill at 4 is a bit gimp, moreso than on other ships. But I see your point too. Well, considering the strength of the bonus it makes the gap between entering the ship and fully skilled enormous unless the bonus is partially split between role and level bonuses. I don't understand this. 300% role bonus as proposed on the worm, no split, what's the problem? You seemed to be associating the fact that Rise didn't want the drone bonus associated with a ship skill level with the fact that the ship was a pirate ship. My line of though is that it's not so much that it's a pirate ship as the fact that the bonus would create a far more extreme gap in performance between skill levels that already exists on most drone ships already.
I'm not seeing an issue with the bonus as proposed, but rather speculating as to the underlying reason. |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
62
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 21:39:00 -
[1182] - Quote
The issue with Sansha having an afterburner bonus is not just regarding any preconception we may have of existing lore, but is more due to the fact that it completely changes current gameplay.
Now they are an active shield speed tanking race completely based around speed. They are basically minmatar + |
Batelle
HOMELE55
2069
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 21:42:00 -
[1183] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: You seemed to be associating the fact that Rise didn't want the drone bonus associated with a ship skill level with the fact that the ship was a pirate ship. My line of though is that it's not so much that it's a pirate ship as the fact that the bonus would create a far more extreme gap in performance between skill levels that already exists on most drone ships already.
I'm not seeing an issue with the bonus as proposed, but rather speculating as to the underlying reason.
I see what you're saying now.. If it was 60%/level for two drones the gap between 4-5 is more than doubled. However I do think the fact that its a pirate ship is relevant. I'm just thinking about those poor caldari that have cross trained into both drones and gallente skills, and not getting their money's worth unless they take the plunge to cross train a second race to level 5. Still missing caldari bs 5 on my snake... "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
25
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 21:43:00 -
[1184] - Quote
There is no good reason to remove missile velocity bonuses from Guristas ships. Devs are just ******* people over needlessly. |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1137
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 21:51:00 -
[1185] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:The issue with Sansha having an afterburner bonus is not just regarding any preconception we may have of existing lore, but is more due to the fact that it completely changes current gameplay.
Not at all. Succubus and Phantasm don't see any current gameplay, so what is there to change?
And why would the AB bonus change the Nightmare, assuming that it doesn't lose its current damage output in the fashion of the Succubus? |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
62
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 22:22:00 -
[1186] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:The issue with Sansha having an afterburner bonus is not just regarding any preconception we may have of existing lore, but is more due to the fact that it completely changes current gameplay. Not at all. Succubus and Phantasm don't see any current gameplay, so what is there to change?.
I'm flying a Phantasm as we speak. hehe
Gypsio III wrote:And why would the AB bonus change the Nightmare, assuming that it doesn't lose its current damage output in the fashion of the Succubus?
The nightmare won't get any use from an afterburner bonus, what is the point in the bonus if it is of no use to the main ship.
|
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2034
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 22:51:00 -
[1187] - Quote
Hey if Lore mattered in this game Gallente ships would have shiny flamboyant paint schemes..
Not disgusting teal and grey..
Can we get rid of all the grey? please?
BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1137
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 22:55:00 -
[1188] - Quote
You and you alone are flying the Phantasm, I fear.
The Nightmare doesn't really need much of a boost. On it, the AB bonus will simply be an interesting option. The clever thing about the AB bonus is that it gives most help to the ships that most need it, as opposed to a uniform boost that makes the NM too powerful, mostly to the benefit of highsec incursioneers, and doesn't fix the ships that actually need help. |
Buckethead bot
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 22:58:00 -
[1189] - Quote
WHAT CCP stuff is basicly doing here : Oh , you dont like sansha bonus ? it will colide with the lore ? **** you and lore i like this bonus Oh , so much people bitching about cruor crappy change ? **** you , i need this bonus for my bhaal |
Xercodo
Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering
3422
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 23:33:00 -
[1190] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:CCP Rise, how about looking again at Sansha, the afterburner bonus will be useless on at least one of their ships, and the Phantasm is now forced to use one completely changing the current playstyle for the worse in my opinion. I've been impressed in the past by how you have altered ships for the better after listening to feedback, and so I have faith you will always get to a good solution. I've been editing the EveHQ database and come up with some rough designs of my own for what I think would be a much better direction for Sansha. I compared the stats against other ships of equal class and although a rought draft, these would fit in well to the current meta. Also I'd just like re quote this as it was on what I based the concept of the proposals below. Ghost Hunter wrote:the sansha gimmick is that their ships are a functional weight size above what their actual designation is
the succubus needs a clearer role designation so more overbearing firepower as a destroyer should suffice
the phantasm is a battlecruiser in a cruiser's skin, it outclasses its own weight size and gives most BCs a run for their money if its meant to be the literal spearhead, emphasizing a tackle and hold role might suffice better
the nightmare is just an overbearingly accurate damage platform that can be retrofitted into a ferocious active tank it's a marauder literally they prototyped the marauder concept with the nightmare
used as a test bed then left behind when everyone else got more powerful upgrades Seeing as the Nightmare is the most contentious ship, I'll start by showing the rough concept for it which I have made. Another turret slot is added bringing the ships damage very slightly over that of the current Vindicator, with pulses lasers matching blasters, and beam laser matching railguns. Also another mid slot is added to make up for the missing slot, this also allows a greater shield capacity making the Nightmare one of the most survivable battleships if a full tank is fitted, base shield is lowered to make sure it will not be too powerful, although I was thinking perhaps to reduce it even further still. Various base adjustments were made to the fitting and capacitor to allow reasonable fitting, although it will always be on a knife edge as should be the case. Finally, speed is dropped and signature bumped up, to make this one of the slowest and largest signatured battleships, with MWD fitted it will go up to between 700 m/s and 800 m/s. I predict it would perform very similar to a maurader, barring the fact that no bastion module can be fitted, and would become a powerhouse in pvp if you can work around its slow speed and agility, and balancing it's large capacitor consumption on a knife edge. NIGHTMARE
Amarr Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret tracking speed per level
Caldari Battleship Bonus: 4% bonus to Shield Resistances per level
Role Bonus: 150% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage
Slot layout: 7H, 8M (+1), 4L; 5 turrets (+1), 0 launchers Fittings: 14800 PWG (+300), 740 CPU (+30) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 9000 (-735) / 8000 (-695) / 7800 (-460) Capacitor (amount / recharge: 9800 (+2850) / 1025 (-130) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass ): 85 (-9) / 0.136 / 99300000 Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75 Signature radius: 420 (+20)Also as posted previously, this is the matching concept for the Succubus. SUCCUBUS
Amarr Frigate Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed per level
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 4% bonus to Shield Resistances per level
Role Bonus: 150% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage
Slot layout: 3H, 5M (+1), 2L (-1); 3 turrets (+1), 0 launchers Fittings: 58 PWG (+14), 195 CPU (+20) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 650 / 550 / 540 Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 450 / 210000 / 2.14 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320 (-20) / 3.5 / 965000 / 4.68s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 34km (+2) / 650 / 6 (+1) Sensor strength: 16 (+3) Signature radius: 38 (+5)Finally the phantasm, I did not have too much time to play around with altering the stats, but from experience I would simply suggest adding an extra mid slot which was missing, and keeping it's damage at its current respectable level. The extra mid slot will allow it to perform it's role of webbing and scramming the enemy whilst still being able to fit a respectable shield tank. I think these proposals would put Sansha in a very good place. I am not 100% on the Nightmare still, I think it may need its stats reducing slightly further, but this is simply a rough draft. And I hope these proposals may be of interest.
ALL OF THIS
It makes the sansha in a great mix of Rokh and Abaddon with the damage potential of a vindi to give the amarr a heavy brawler pirate race while the blood raiders can remain the skirmisher types
The Drake is a Lie |
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Joe Boirele
Lords 0f Justice Lords Of Stars
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 23:50:00 -
[1191] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:CCP Rise, how about looking again at Sansha, the afterburner bonus will be useless on at least one of their ships, and the Phantasm is now forced to use one completely changing the current playstyle for the worse in my opinion. I've been impressed in the past by how you have altered ships for the better after listening to feedback, and so I have faith you will always get to a good solution. I've been editing the EveHQ database and come up with some rough designs of my own for what I think would be a much better direction for Sansha. I compared the stats against other ships of equal class and although a rought draft, these would fit in well to the current meta. Also I'd just like re quote this as it was on what I based the concept of the proposals below. Ghost Hunter wrote:the sansha gimmick is that their ships are a functional weight size above what their actual designation is
the succubus needs a clearer role designation so more overbearing firepower as a destroyer should suffice
the phantasm is a battlecruiser in a cruiser's skin, it outclasses its own weight size and gives most BCs a run for their money if its meant to be the literal spearhead, emphasizing a tackle and hold role might suffice better
the nightmare is just an overbearingly accurate damage platform that can be retrofitted into a ferocious active tank it's a marauder literally they prototyped the marauder concept with the nightmare
used as a test bed then left behind when everyone else got more powerful upgrades Seeing as the Nightmare is the most contentious ship, I'll start by showing the rough concept for it which I have made. Another turret slot is added bringing the ships damage very slightly over that of the current Vindicator, with pulses lasers matching blasters, and beam laser matching railguns. Also another mid slot is added to make up for the missing slot, this also allows a greater shield capacity making the Nightmare one of the most survivable battleships if a full tank is fitted, base shield is lowered to make sure it will not be too powerful, although I was thinking perhaps to reduce it even further still. Various base adjustments were made to the fitting and capacitor to allow reasonable fitting, although it will always be on a knife edge as should be the case. Finally, speed is dropped and signature bumped up, to make this one of the slowest and largest signatured battleships, with MWD fitted it will go up to between 700 m/s and 800 m/s. I predict it would perform very similar to a maurader, barring the fact that no bastion module can be fitted, and would become a powerhouse in pvp if you can work around its slow speed and agility, and balancing it's large capacitor consumption on a knife edge. NIGHTMARE
Amarr Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret tracking speed per level
Caldari Battleship Bonus: 4% bonus to Shield Resistances per level
Role Bonus: 150% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage
Slot layout: 7H, 8M (+1), 4L; 5 turrets (+1), 0 launchers Fittings: 14800 PWG (+300), 740 CPU (+30) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 9000 (-735) / 8000 (-695) / 7800 (-460) Capacitor (amount / recharge: 9800 (+2850) / 1025 (-130) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass ): 85 (-9) / 0.136 / 99300000 Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75 Signature radius: 420 (+20)Also as posted previously, this is the matching concept for the Succubus. SUCCUBUS
Amarr Frigate Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed per level
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 4% bonus to Shield Resistances per level
Role Bonus: 150% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage
Slot layout: 3H, 5M (+1), 2L (-1); 3 turrets (+1), 0 launchers Fittings: 58 PWG (+14), 195 CPU (+20) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 650 / 550 / 540 Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 450 / 210000 / 2.14 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320 (-20) / 3.5 / 965000 / 4.68s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 34km (+2) / 650 / 6 (+1) Sensor strength: 16 (+3) Signature radius: 38 (+5)Finally the phantasm, I did not have too much time to play around with altering the stats, but from experience I would simply suggest adding an extra mid slot which was missing, and keeping it's damage at its current respectable level. The extra mid slot will allow it to perform it's role of webbing and scramming the enemy whilst still being able to fit a respectable shield tank. I think these proposals would put Sansha in a very good place. I am not 100% on the Nightmare still, I think it may need its stats reducing slightly further, but this is simply a rough draft. And I hope these proposals may be of interest. ALL OF THIS It makes the sansha in a great mix of Rokh and Abaddon with the damage potential of a vindi to give the amarr a heavy brawler pirate race while the blood raiders can remain the skirmisher types Before you go any further, I'd like to point out that one of the reasons Rise chose the AB bonus was that it wouldn't affect the nightmare much, while boosting the use of the Succumbus and the Phantasm, because apparently he's satisfied with the nightmare. IMO, I think the AB bonus is pretty cool and unique. Enemies are just friends who stab you in the front.
Might makes right! |
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel Gank for Profit
74
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 23:55:00 -
[1192] - Quote
Rise the cruor without being able to neut or nos past 10km will inevitably die to anything that has a web and an AB by mere kiting it outside its neut/nos range it effectively becomes worse then a tormentor in that situation
the after burner bonus just will not work on a battleship and I have my doubts with the phantasm as well the nightmare just lack so many things the mach has, its gonna be much slower for one, less range and tracking, less agile a 100mn phantasm while being just as fast as a 100mn tengu will also be much less agile have less range and being a gun ship needs to watch its tracking, it has way less tank and capacitor live
on the other hand it might be too easy for a succubus to just run away from a fight when ever it wants since few frigates use two webs they will not be able to hold it down Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
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Joe Boirele
Lords 0f Justice Lords Of Stars
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 00:15:00 -
[1193] - Quote
The AB bonus wasn't supposed to do much on the nightmare, because Rise is happy with it where it is right now. Enemies are just friends who stab you in the front.
Might makes right! |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
248
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 00:41:00 -
[1194] - Quote
Joe Boirele wrote:The AB bonus wasn't supposed to do much on the nightmare, because Rise is happy with it where it is right now.
This. The Amarr damage bonus will probably be merged to the role bonus on the hull too to make room for the AB, so the NM will just get a little more versatile. Don't expect any big buffs for the NM, CCP is content with it.
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Brutor Trash
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 03:15:00 -
[1195] - Quote
#NOBAMA 2014
PLEASE OBAMA
FIX THE CARACAL |
Brutor Trash
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 03:21:00 -
[1196] - Quote
Dalikah wrote: Just to reply to your latest post Rise:
The 40s reload timer: Do you really feel like a 40s period of not being able to effectively defend yourself against tackle is not a deal-breaker, when an Interceptor is going to be able to pass 2 systems and tackle you in this amount of time with Rubicon? And why would one ever invest 2-300m ISK into a HAC that can do nothing but warp in, kill a few Frigates and is then either useless for 40s or forced off? The same problem comes with the inability to switch ammo efficently, an Enyo can appear basically out of nowhere within seconds, render your kinetic missiles useless and force a reload - good luck kiting long enough to reload and kill an MWD-bonused AF.
Also, yes, RLML deal a whole lot of damage to MWDing T1-frigs, and a reasonable amount to AFs, but have you ever actually looked at a DPS graph against a properly fitted Interceptor backed up by the Rubicon changes? A current 3x BCU Cerberus does 90 DPS to a Malediction using faction missiles, which means it would take almost 40 seconds (or 30s with precision) to kill it . That sounds reasonable and well balanced, why does it have to change? Yes, nice, it will take less time with the ROF changes, but you-&re not going to kill more than 1-2 before you have to reload, which is nothing but a bad joke (this also assumes no links, no heat and ignores the greatly reduced range through the Ceptor-&s high speed). And this is just about the Cerberus, the by far highest-DPS RLML platform - others like Caracal and Fleet Scythe would suffer even more.
You also state that the front-loaded DPS and ridiculous reload will bring "new kinds of decision making" and "spikes of tension", which basically translates to more tactical gameplay. This is simply completely false. Missiles in general already tend to offer slightly less tactical and piloting options than turret ships in return for a more reliable dps output, just because the whole mechanics around transversal and maneuvers to force people into taking more damage from your weapons do not really exist in missile based combat. Instead, you have the immunity to tracking disruption, resistance to ECM and damps via FoFs as well as (semi-)fully selectable damagetypes - your changes would make all of those bar the td-immunity more or less obsolete in the heat of a fight. This leaves us with a very dull and stale weapon system, that basically only allows 1 tactic: choose ammo, warp in, try to gank the lowest ehp ship(s), burn off/warp off/die. This offers no diversity, no ability to react to changing circumstances in a reasonable amount of time (i.e. new incoming tackle, need of max (fury) dps, etc), simply no interesting nor challenging gameplay.
If you really feel like RLML are slightly overpowered in their current state (I don-&t see people shooting monuments over RLML so they can-&t be ridiculously strong and need a nerf into the ground, like you proposed here), then reduce their damage application and volley by a little, then see how things go.
I appreciate the fact that you want to try out new ideas and concepts, and the basic idea of front-loaded dps or swarm-missiles surely has potential, but it-&s nothing to bring up 1.5 weeks before the patch goes live, nor something to replace "normal" launchers with - throw them onto Singularity along with tweaks to the "normal" RLML, give people time to test them out. gather data, adjust accordingly and consider a further rebalancing of RLML with Rubicon 1.1 (the changes in powergrid need already are a bit of nerf for now, aren-&t they). You even basically admitted yourself that making such drastic changes to a popular weapon does bring a lot of problems with it if not part of the future entire module/weapon tiericide and rebalancing - so please take yourself some time and think about your ideas again. In fact, with the shifts of the Eve meta towards Cruisers/HACs and away from battlecruisers, reverting the nerf to HML application might be an interesting move on Singularity to see how people react and adapt, and then look at RLML again and ask yourself if they really are/were too strong, or the other medium sized missile systems too weak.
#HEALTHCARE2014 |
Rabbit P
23rd Tier Overseer's Personal Effects Pangu Coalition
6
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Posted - 2014.03.05 04:37:00 -
[1197] - Quote
I want to clarify one thing
Energy Vampires fit on blood's ship continue to leech from the target until their cap reaches zero, then in the next cycle NOS will get nothing until target recharge a bit? or NOS can still 'generate' cap even the target has no cap left? |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
248
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Posted - 2014.03.05 05:40:00 -
[1198] - Quote
Rabbit P wrote:I want to clarify one thing
Energy Vampires fit on blood's ship continue to leech from the target until their cap reaches zero, then in the next cycle NOS will get nothing until target recharge a bit? or NOS can still 'generate' cap even the target has no cap left?
If the target has 0 cap, you get 0 cap I think. Its also almost impossible to have 0 cap though, even if you are capped out in a cycle you will get some cap before the module cycles again.
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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
422
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Posted - 2014.03.05 05:59:00 -
[1199] - Quote
Correct. Regular Nos only gives cap if the current amount is greater than your own as a whole number, not percentage. This means that for the most part Nos is useless against targets smaller than you as unless you drain yourself very low you will always have more than they do.
Blood Raider Nos will always drain for its full amount until the target is empty. It wont generate extra to make up a cycle, but it will take them down to absolute zero and keep them there, which on other ships requires a Neut. |
Pippan
Probe Patrol Awakened.
3
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Posted - 2014.03.05 09:11:00 -
[1200] - Quote
So when is this going to hit SiSi? |
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