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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
The Bazzalisk
Acerbus Vindictum Stealth Wear Inc.
41
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Posted - 2014.03.11 22:57:00 -
[301] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Ransu Asanari wrote:I'm honestly not a fan of the Breacher ROF change. Having the damage bonus not be type-specific meant it was one of the few ships that could actually use the missile advantage of selectable damage, and was very versatile. I really enjoyed flying the Breacher during the Stay Frosty Frigate FFA and used this to great effect.
Changing this to a ROF bonus feels like a nerf, since it means you're doing less damage between reloads and you're running out of ammo faster. I think you'll find that the increase in dps will be significant enough to more than balance out the more common reloads. The DPS increase is tiny: 105.26% vs 105.00% I don't think that 0.26% extra damage over time is going to swing any fights. What is relevent is that the Breacher will get it's extra volley in more often. At level 5, the damage bonus is 125% dps and the ROF bonus is 133% dps. The ROF bonus is like, 30% stronger relative to the previous damage bonus. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
575
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 23:09:00 -
[302] - Quote
factor in reload times. with rockets, you will almost certainly always be reloading, because ccp hates fun. |
Flaming Forum Spammer
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2014.03.12 00:07:00 -
[303] - Quote
Please,
Tormentor Rocket bonus
Maller HAM bonus
Give us a reason to train missile skills early rather than at BC |
Jade III
Angry Mustellid
122
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Posted - 2014.03.12 03:09:00 -
[304] - Quote
Kity Rifters all the way man :D My adventure blog: http://lonewolfadventures.wordpress.com/ |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
888
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Posted - 2014.03.12 03:22:00 -
[305] - Quote
Riftawolves everywhere! That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Beverly Sparks
0mega.
6
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Posted - 2014.03.12 12:08:00 -
[306] - Quote
I fly the breacher almost exclusively. The Rate of fire "buff" is a nerf disguised as a buff, but it's really a nerf.
A) You'll burn out faster (less overheating) B) You'll be reloading nonstop and yes frig fights where you do more than one load happen way more than you think. C) The on paper damage won't even increase that much
As for the rifter: Rifter sucks ass live with it. Fallof bonus will make it even weaker to one of it's current weakness. Close orbit.
CCP remove a low or a high from the punisher and put it in the mids instead of silly pg, mass and speed changes....
Most important thing i see here in the combat frigs is the speed change to the breacher wich is really good.
Grtz, Bev |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
889
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Posted - 2014.03.12 12:33:00 -
[307] - Quote
Why fit arties to the rifter?
Give it 200mm's and a couple of ambits (i.e pretty standard rifter rigs) and you get 19+km with barrage.
The falloff bonus is a direct buff to the rifter damage projection. This is a good thing. 150mm's track well standard and now hit out to scram range with faction ammo. means the scram kite rifter is better able to keep kiting and hitting for more damage. Buff all round. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Beverly Sparks
0mega.
6
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Posted - 2014.03.12 12:51:00 -
[308] - Quote
All I'm saying is that it's not a big enough buff. It's at most where it was before in my opinion, maybe a bit better. |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
889
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Posted - 2014.03.12 13:00:00 -
[309] - Quote
Beverly Sparks wrote:All I'm saying is that it's not a big enough buff. It's at most where it was before in my opinion, maybe a bit better.
The problem you have with the rifter is that it has such a cult following within eve. So everyone 'wants' it to be uber powerful. I like where it's at now. More after the buff. It will be powerful but not OP. This is good. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Beverly Sparks
0mega.
6
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Posted - 2014.03.12 13:28:00 -
[310] - Quote
And I'll have my fun permatanking the silly low dps of a deepfalloff rifter...
Also the rifterfanboys cult is a relic from the past. |
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Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
194
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Posted - 2014.03.12 15:05:00 -
[311] - Quote
Beverly Sparks wrote:
CCP remove a low or a high from the punisher and put it in the mids instead of silly pg, mass and speed changes....
Grtz, Bev
^THIS |
Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
194
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Posted - 2014.03.12 15:07:00 -
[312] - Quote
also, i bet a kiting rifter wouldnt survive to an amarr ship using gatling pulses/ quad light beams II even with T1 Ammo |
Goldensaver
Lom Corporation Brothers of Tangra
381
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 15:28:00 -
[313] - Quote
Silivar Karkun wrote:also, i bet a kiting rifter wouldnt survive to an amarr ship using gatling pulses/ quad light beams II even with T1 Ammo So... get in under the guns? You have 3 mids, and are likely faster. Use your speed and your range control to get in close. Even without the tracking bonus you still out-track lasers. Even Gatling Pulse II's have .308125 rad/s tracking and the 200mm Autocannon II's have .315. The disparity is even larger with higher tier lasers and lower tier AC's. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3056
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Posted - 2014.03.12 15:31:00 -
[314] - Quote
Silivar Karkun wrote:also, i bet a kiting rifter wouldnt survive to an amarr ship using gatling pulses/ quad light beams II even with T1 Ammo Whatever you say. From where I'm standing, things are about to get very interesting. Rifterlings - newbie-friendly swashbuckling corp ("weflyrifters" in-game channel). Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Beverly Sparks
0mega.
6
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Posted - 2014.03.12 15:47:00 -
[315] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:also, i bet a kiting rifter wouldnt survive to an amarr ship using gatling pulses/ quad light beams II even with T1 Ammo Whatever you say. From where I'm standing, things are about to get very interesting.
Yep I'm already sitting on a few rifter kills from people who thought it would become a viable frig again \o/. In fighting them I haven't really noticed an increase in performance.
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Goldensaver
Lom Corporation Brothers of Tangra
381
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Posted - 2014.03.12 15:52:00 -
[316] - Quote
Beverly Sparks wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:also, i bet a kiting rifter wouldnt survive to an amarr ship using gatling pulses/ quad light beams II even with T1 Ammo Whatever you say. From where I'm standing, things are about to get very interesting. Yep I'm already sitting on a few rifter kills from people who thought it would become a viable frig again \o/. In fighting them I haven't really noticed an increase in performance. How many of those kills were competent pilots, and how many of them flew well, and how many flew the ship to its advantages?
Not saying I'm 100% certain it'll be a great ship, but in my opinion it's looking decent, and I'd rather wait until people figure out what they're doing before I start passing judgement. I'll personally wait a month at least before I really decide how I feel about it. |
Beverly Sparks
0mega.
6
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 15:55:00 -
[317] - Quote
One of them was a verry competent pilot can't say much about the others don't know them personaly. Even the competent pilot didn't manage to make it a close match... |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
577
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 16:21:00 -
[318] - Quote
Beverly Sparks wrote: Also go ahead fit arty to a rifter, the arty tail needs dual webs to be somewhat effecient and it has a tracking bonus. The arty wolf has a tracking bonus and at the range it wants to be you can pretty easily mitigate allot of it's dps in an ab frig... So what will the rifter do????
disagree here, gallente can do scram kiting with rails with only one web, and they're slower. the reason a rifter cannot do it, is because it has no fitting, and because arties do no dps, which is made worse by the rifter having no slots. that said, a falloff bonus is definitely worse than a tracking bonus for artillery scram kiting. the whole point is they want you to do it with ACs, which don't fit either, and also have no dps. |
Josie solo
Singular Motives
5
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Posted - 2014.03.12 16:59:00 -
[319] - Quote
It's good you've tried re-balancing this under performing frigate and while a fall off bonus gives it... something, perhaps also adding an extra low would help bring it into equal contention with other frigates.
It opens up many options for fitting, mobility and damage while not overpowering it. |
sten mattson
Virtus Crusade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
70
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 17:08:00 -
[320] - Quote
Beverly Sparks wrote: CCP remove a low or a high from the punisher and put it in the mids instead of silly pg, mass and speed changes....
Most important thing i see here in the combat frigs is the speed change to the breacher wich is really good.
Grtz, Bev
if you want to fly a frig with great tank , dps, and cap with no utility high , fly the tormentor. Granted the ship is fugly, but remember it used to be a mining frig.
also, dont you dare remove that utility high on the punisher!!!
IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!! |
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
577
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 17:24:00 -
[321] - Quote
sten mattson wrote:Beverly Sparks wrote: CCP remove a low or a high from the punisher and put it in the mids instead of silly pg, mass and speed changes....
Most important thing i see here in the combat frigs is the speed change to the breacher wich is really good.
Grtz, Bev
if you want to fly a frig with great tank , dps, and cap with no utility high , fly the tormentor. Granted the ship is fugly, but remember it used to be a mining frig. also, dont you dare remove that utility high on the punisher!!!
but the tormentor doesn't have any of those things |
Nikita O
Gradient
0
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Posted - 2014.03.12 17:26:00 -
[322] - Quote
Thanks for Rifter changes |
Beverly Sparks
0mega.
6
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Posted - 2014.03.12 23:39:00 -
[323] - Quote
sten mattson wrote:Beverly Sparks wrote: CCP remove a low or a high from the punisher and put it in the mids instead of silly pg, mass and speed changes....
Most important thing i see here in the combat frigs is the speed change to the breacher wich is really good.
Grtz, Bev
if you want to fly a frig with great tank , dps, and cap with no utility high , fly the tormentor. Granted the ship is fugly, but remember it used to be a mining frig. also, dont you dare remove that utility high on the punisher!!!
Oh yea, keep the utility high for a neut that you'll never get in range for without a third mid?
Screw me for wanting the punisher to actualy be a frig with more use than filling the lows with stabs to run down fw plexes right? Oh yea now I remember why the utility high needs to stay for the cloak right!?
I hardly fly amarr, so I'm not really speaking out of what I want for me to fly but just general... Punishers not only bad but also boring. |
Naomi Anthar
311
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 03:16:00 -
[324] - Quote
Nikita O wrote:Thanks for Rifter changes
Even though my first rifter got on really many kills today, including solo - i still think it's garbage. Other ships can do same better for same price.
I think fit i was using is "decent". It died to heavy damage algos, but it's nothing to be ashamed of.
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=22422504 - why hail and close range ? Doesn't matter in this fight - i should just never engage ;) , but there was friendly dragoon so w/e ;).
I couldn't cycle my rep for 2nd time - not that it would help ;).
Can do respectable 150 dps with barrage oh ~~15km range ! , 201 dps with oh hail (not bad at all especially with falloff bonus at range of ~~ 7300). Can tank ... not dessie tho for sure.
Still i'm not sold on this ship.
Fact remains that CCP really puts utility highs on ships that don't need it or can't use it.
On the other hand rifter at least got option for rocket launcher/lml. So it's not THAT bad as it is on punisher for example. |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
898
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 11:54:00 -
[325] - Quote
Naomi Anthar wrote:Nikita O wrote:Thanks for Rifter changes Even though my first rifter got on really many kills today, including solo - i still think it's garbage. Other ships can do same better for same price. I think fit i was using is "decent". It died to heavy damage algos, but it's nothing to be ashamed of. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=22422504 - why hail and close range ? Doesn't matter in this fight - i should just never engage ;) , but there was friendly dragoon so w/e ;). I couldn't cycle my rep for 2nd time - not that it would help ;). Can do respectable 150 dps with barrage oh ~~15km range ! , 201 dps with oh hail (not bad at all especially with falloff bonus at range of ~~ 7300). Can tank ... not dessie tho for sure. Still i'm not sold on this ship. Fact remains that CCP really puts utility highs on ships that don't need it or can't use it. On the other hand rifter at least got option for rocket launcher/lml. So it's not THAT bad as it is on punisher for example.
Don't complain that your T1 frig got popped by a frig killing dessy. It's what they are made for after all. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
sten mattson
Virtus Crusade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
70
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 12:15:00 -
[326] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:
but the tormentor doesn't have any of those things
The lazor dmg is equal due to the same amount of turrets, low slots, rig slots and fitting. The tormentor however gets 2 light drones, bumping the potential damage up a notch above that of both the punisher and executioner. It still has a great tank if you fit it right.
the tormentor has equivalent capacitor amd gets the lazer cap use bonus , so you will be able to shoot your guns and even support a frikking local repper for about 30-40 seconds (wich is usually the length of a frig fight.) , thus having more cap life than the punisher with equivalent guns.
Quote:Oh yea, keep the utility high for a neut that you'll never get in range for without a third mid?
Screw me for wanting the punisher to actualy be a frig with more use than filling the lows with stabs to run down fw plexes right? Oh yea now I remember why the utility high needs to stay for the cloak right!?
I hardly fly amarr, so I'm not really speaking out of what I want for me to fly but just general... Punishers not only bad but also boring.
in fw land everyone fly either AB+scram or MWD kite. In ab+scram mode you have two choices , either go close and orbit , or stay at scram edge. With a neut punisher , if they go close you neut them , if they go far use the almighty so called OP scorch and win.
in MWD kite mode you would be surprised how fast a plated punisher can go with these latest changes, and as long as the kiter isnt linked , its quite easy to slingshot yourself into scram range.
Punisher has something that no other amarr frigate can afford to have. It can use frigging capacitor warfare to great effect. And the tank to support it. The exec doesnt count because its capacitor is so weak , a neut would empty it in a jiffy.
just because you havent figured out a playstyle with the punisher, doesnt mean that the devs should chnage it. IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!! |
Garr Earthbender
Justified Chaos
201
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 12:20:00 -
[327] - Quote
About the new Punisher, I can now fit a NOS in the highs without sacrificing my gun size. It's possible that a 200 plate/small rep fit is actually doable now! -Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper |
Beverly Sparks
0mega.
7
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Posted - 2014.03.13 15:53:00 -
[328] - Quote
sten mattson wrote:Quote:Oh yea, keep the utility high for a neut that you'll never get in range for without a third mid?
Screw me for wanting the punisher to actualy be a frig with more use than filling the lows with stabs to run down fw plexes right? Oh yea now I remember why the utility high needs to stay for the cloak right!?
I hardly fly amarr, so I'm not really speaking out of what I want for me to fly but just general... Punishers not only bad but also boring. in fw land everyone fly either AB+scram or MWD kite. In ab+scram mode you have two choices , either go close and orbit , or stay at scram edge. With a neut punisher , if they go close you neut them , if they go far use the almighty so called OP scorch and win. in MWD kite mode you would be surprised how fast a plated punisher can go with these latest changes, and as long as the kiter isnt linked , its quite easy to slingshot yourself into scram range. Punisher has something that no other amarr frigate can afford to have. It can use frigging capacitor warfare to great effect. And the tank to support it. The exec doesnt count because its capacitor is so weak , a neut would empty it in a jiffy. just because you havent figured out a playstyle with the punisher, doesnt mean that the devs should chnage it.
Wait... I don't know if we are active in the same fw zone. But I can asure you, you like you've heard of scram web kiting... Even tho it seems to me everyone scram web kites. Punisher is dead in the water in that situation. It's one and only use is fw farming, or occasionaly win a niche situation fight vs a noob.
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sten mattson
Virtus Crusade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
71
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Posted - 2014.03.14 00:49:00 -
[329] - Quote
Garr Earthbender wrote:About the new Punisher, I can now fit a NOS in the highs without sacrificing my gun size. It's possible that a 200 plate/small rep fit is actually doable now!
oh it is doable, as long as you dont go for the biggest baddest guns, then you have to drop the NOS or repper. I usually go for either dual light if teacking isnt an issue , or gatlings when i want that extra tracking IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!! |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
578
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:52:00 -
[330] - Quote
lol noweb |
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