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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
465
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 17:45:00 -
[211] - Quote
Utility highs would be more valued if there was a wider range of useful options than neut, nos, or off-type weapon. |
Icarus Able
Revenant Tactical
359
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 18:54:00 -
[212] - Quote
You are giving the Omen a speed buff....Its already possibly the best cruiser with excellent damage projection and enough lows to nano and Armor tank, while already having decent speed.
If anything the rupture needs a slight buff in speed and the stabber needs a bit more DPS. |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
89
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 19:54:00 -
[213] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Rek Seven wrote:But what does it all mean? It means the minmatar are going to be even more obnoxious with their rifters, but the amarr will stand a better chance of catching up to them. It also means the Vexor didn't get a nerf, it in fact got a buff with the mass reduction. Beware the speed-tanking shield vexor... -10 m/s definitely looks like a nerf to me.
Big mass reduction should definitely overcompensate for that, especially with the right mods. |
Goldensaver
Lom Corporation Brothers of Tangra
373
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 21:12:00 -
[214] - Quote
Icarus Able wrote:You are giving the Omen a speed buff....Its already possibly the best cruiser with excellent damage projection and enough lows to nano and Armor tank, while already having decent speed.
If anything the rupture needs a slight buff in speed and the stabber needs a bit more DPS.
Edit: ********. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1397
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 01:03:00 -
[215] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
CARACAL: +0.01 inertia
Thanks for reading, and we look forward to your feedback.
It begins! Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Deerin
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
210
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 16:59:00 -
[216] - Quote
Can you guys also take a look at Vigil. It is the single most useless t1 frig atm. 15mbit/30m^3 drones maybe? |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1546
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 20:21:00 -
[217] - Quote
Deerin wrote:Can you guys also take a look at Vigil. It is the single most useless t1 frig atm. 15mbit/30m^3 drones maybe?
Minmatar e-war will be questionable unless the tracking formula is revised with more emphasis on sig radius. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1547
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 20:45:00 -
[218] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Utility highs on frigates are utterly useless. Not really. A nos on a tackle frig helps keep takle against larger ships with a neut. Small neuts are useful for breaking active tanks on frigates with low DPS but win through damage mitigation (i.e. tracking/range etc). I mean, yes a cap booster in the mids would be better than a nos but I hardly think utility highs should should be removed from all frigates. Yes, a nos in a utility high might save you in extreme niche cases that never actually happen. For all intents and purposes however they are wasted slots that offer maybe 20% of the value that normal slots offer.
Cap warfare at the small range doesn't matter? Or nos/neuts can't compete with the extra range that OGB links allow? |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
466
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Posted - 2014.03.01 20:48:00 -
[219] - Quote
Quote:Or nos/neuts can't compete with the extra range that OGB links allow?
So, you're saying we should give rifters and punishers a fitting bonus to warfare links? I'm okay with this. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1547
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 21:04:00 -
[220] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Quote:Or nos/neuts can't compete with the extra range that OGB links allow? So, you're saying we should give rifters and punishers a fitting bonus to warfare links? I'm okay with this.
Scram range is 9km. Overheated it's 10.8 km. Add links and you're pushing 13km+ or something silly. The 6.3 km range for small neuts/nos was thought up in a completely different era. Maybe it's time to rebalance their range. (8km?) |
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3000
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 22:04:00 -
[221] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Milton Middleson wrote:Quote:Or nos/neuts can't compete with the extra range that OGB links allow? So, you're saying we should give rifters and punishers a fitting bonus to warfare links? I'm okay with this. Scram range is 9km. Overheated it's 10.8 km. Add links and you're pushing 13km+ or something silly. The 6.3 km range for small neuts/nos was thought up in a completely different era. Maybe it's time to rebalance their range. (8km?) No, man, see, CCP nerfed skirmish links 3% and they are toooooootally balanced now.
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Deerin wrote:Can you guys also take a look at Vigil. It is the single most useless t1 frig atm. 15mbit/30m^3 drones maybe? Minmatar e-war will be questionable unless the tracking formula is revised with more emphasis on sig radius. Not sure that's a good idea, especially since tiny sig radius stuff is already hell to track. Not sure it's a bad idea either, though. Something does need to be done about signature radius mechanics. As they are now, they are flat values that matter fairly little outside of a situation where you're being TD'd. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
466
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 23:23:00 -
[222] - Quote
Quote:Not sure that's a good idea, especially since tiny sig radius stuff is already hell to track. Not sure it's a bad idea either, though. Something does need to be done about signature radius mechanics. As they are now, they are flat values that matter fairly little outside of a situation where you're being TD'd.
I think you're somewhat underselling how sig radius interacts with the tracking formula. A bigger issue is how sig radius' impact scales with the size of a brawl. Any nominally speed/agility-oriented brawler (e.g. a slasher or rifter) is going to run into two issues. First, that once a fight scales past about three people on a side, the primary can expect to be scrammed and double or triple webbed or more. For an afterburner fit, that's going to cost you about 85-90% of your speed and pretty much obviate the use of your AB. Second is that the larger a brawl gets, the more difficult it becomes to maintain significant transversal vs enough enemies to justify a low-sig brawler.
Quote:Scram range is 9km. Overheated it's 10.8 km. Add links and you're pushing 13km+ or something silly. The 6.3 km range for small neuts/nos was thought up in a completely different era. Maybe it's time to rebalance their range. (8km?)
Not sure about that. That seems more like a reason to make the effect of links less ridiculous. Increasing the range of small neuts has quite a knock-on effect (see sentinels and dragoons). On the other hand, noseferatus should probably cost less to fit, and utility high slots could stand a wider range of useful modules to go there, because right now the selection is not terribly impressive. I'm not sure what that could be, though. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3000
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 23:41:00 -
[223] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Second is that the larger a brawl gets, the more difficult it becomes to maintain significant transversal vs enough enemies to justify a low-sig brawler. Perhaps make sig radius a bit important in solo / small gang stuff to compensate for it not being important in big fights? That might lessen the variety of ships seen in both kinds of fight, though...
Milton Middleson wrote: Not sure about that. That seems more like a reason to make the effect of links less ridiculous. Increasing the range of small neuts has quite a knock-on effect (see sentinels and dragoons). On the other hand, noseferatus should probably cost less to fit, and utility high slots could stand a wider range of useful modules to go there, because right now the selection is not terribly impressive. I'm not sure what that could be, though.
Seems like a perfect way to fix target painters. As a mid slot, they are redundant with webs and are almost never worth using instead of another form of EW. Move TPs to high slots, and ships that normally have nothing to fit there other than maybe a salvager can get a neat little bonus to their tracking. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
404
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 23:53:00 -
[224] - Quote
I like the Amarr concept- they are supposed to be bricks, it makes sense that they get reduced penalties for doing so. This is an excellent direction to go.
Disappointed with the Punisher. It doesn't have anything to do with the proposed changes, which I'll be honest are very good. Instead it's due to the core design of the ship. It has a split personality. On the one hand, it seems purpose built for medium-range (5-10km) frigate fighting and range dictation, using the flexibility of lasers and high HP to fight in an opponents falloff and simply out last them. On the other side, it has only two midslots and low base speed and has absolutely no ability to dictate range.
I've been trying for ages to think of a way to make it effective without giving it a 3rd midslot, and really haven't come up with one. Neut's are good in concept to disable enemy tackle and let you dictate, and the naturally high (soon to be higher) capacitor plays into this idea. Unfortunately neut range is too short compared to scram/web range, and neut time is too long to be meaningful in most frigate fights. Current frigate DPS so high and frig v frig kill time is so short that the the old neuts have no place. An extra 500-1k base EHP on all frigates might help, by making frig v frig fights longer and thus making tactical tools (like neuts or ewar) more desirable.
In summary, either move the Punisher's utility high to midslot to let it compete with other frigates in the current paradigm, or do a rebalance on small neuts and frig v frig kill time. - Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap - -áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there? |
Benito Arias
Angry Mustellid
31
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 01:38:00 -
[225] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:RIFTER: Removed +7.5% Small Projectile Turret tracking bonus Added +10% Small Projectile Turret falloff bonus +10 m/s velocity +0.01 inertia Funny, how many times has the Rifter been kicked in the guts? TE nerf, Attack Frigates, Combat Frigates iteration, Light Missiles? Not sure if this is enough to revive it. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2032
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 15:06:00 -
[226] - Quote
Can't we just change the utility high on the punisher to another gun?
Its not like it has a lot of dps.. Especially not applied dps. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Naomi Anthar
304
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 23:53:00 -
[227] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Can't we just change the utility high on the punisher to another gun?
Its not like it has a lot of dps.. Especially not applied dps.
I agree here completly, it's not like punisher is going to be good even with 4th gun. But sure it will suck less. |
Phaade
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
149
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 23:56:00 -
[228] - Quote
Icarus Able wrote:You are giving the Omen a speed buff....Its already possibly the best cruiser with excellent damage projection and enough lows to nano and Armor tank, while already having decent speed.
If anything the rupture needs a slight buff in speed and the stabber needs a bit more DPS.
Lol, the Vexor is the best cruiser. Far and away.
Omen cannot brawl, either. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1549
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 05:42:00 -
[229] - Quote
Benito Arias wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:RIFTER: Removed +7.5% Small Projectile Turret tracking bonus Added +10% Small Projectile Turret falloff bonus +10 m/s velocity +0.01 inertia Funny, how many times has the Rifter been kicked in the guts? TE nerf, Attack Frigates, Combat Frigates iteration, Light Missiles? Not sure if this is enough to revive it.
The problem with the Rifter more then anything else is it's fitting grid. It has (base stats, no skills) 38 PG and 125 CPU. 38 is a god awful low PG for a combat frigate. Only the Breacher (missile and also Minmatar) and Tristan (9 slots) have lower PG as combat frigates at 35 each. Of the attack frigates -
Atron - 37 Executioner - 45 Condor - 35 Slasher - 35
The Rifter's CPU the lowest of all attack and combat rifters save the Punisher- which is about to be buffed past it anyways.
The Rifter in general can't fit similar to the other Combat frigates. The Incursus can fit 150mm rails or Neutron Blasters with a SAAR and not need a fitting mod or rig. The Merlin? One fitting mod to get neutrons and an MSE or MASB. The poor Rifter not only needs a fitting mod for an MSE / MASB but also has to settle for second tier 150mm AC. It probably will also fit a nano or OD simply because it's out of CPU.and arty? LOL |
Goldensaver
Lom Corporation Brothers of Tangra
373
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 14:59:00 -
[230] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Benito Arias wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:RIFTER: Removed +7.5% Small Projectile Turret tracking bonus Added +10% Small Projectile Turret falloff bonus +10 m/s velocity +0.01 inertia Funny, how many times has the Rifter been kicked in the guts? TE nerf, Attack Frigates, Combat Frigates iteration, Light Missiles? Not sure if this is enough to revive it. The problem with the Rifter more then anything else is it's fitting grid. It has (base stats, no skills) 38 PG and 125 CPU. 38 is a god awful low PG for a combat frigate. Only the Breacher (missile and also Minmatar) and Tristan (9 slots) have lower PG as combat frigates at 35 each. Of the attack frigates - Atron - 37 Executioner - 45 Condor - 35 Slasher - 35 The Rifter's CPU the lowest of all attack and combat rifters save the Punisher- which is about to be buffed past it anyways. The Rifter in general can't fit similar to the other Combat frigates. The Incursus can fit 150mm rails or Neutron Blasters with a SAAR and not need a fitting mod or rig. The Merlin? One fitting mod to get neutrons and an MSE or MASB. The poor Rifter not only needs a fitting mod for an MSE / MASB but also has to settle for second tier 150mm AC. It probably will also fit a nano or OD simply because it's out of CPU.and arty? LOL
I'm going to disagree with you in regards to the grid being poor, with it more than capable of fitting what you say it can't (MSE and 200mm's), but I will agree with regard to the **** poor CPU.
For example, you can fit it with 200mm's, an MSE and MWD with only one fitting rig: [Rifter, Autos] Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S [empty high slot]
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Core Defense Field Extender I Small Ancillary Current Router I
Or you can put a Neut in the utility high for the low, low cost of an MAPC (not worth it!): [Rifter, Autos and Neut] Gyrostabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Core Defense Field Extender I Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Even an arty Rifter isn't too bad to fit assuming you aren't trying to fit a 280mm blap cannon, only needing one fitting mod for an MSE, MWD and a full rack of 250's: [Rifter, Arty] Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Tracking Enhancer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Warp Disruptor II
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, EMP S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, EMP S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, EMP S [empty high slot]
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I Small Core Defense Field Extender I Small Core Defense Field Extender I
I will however have to agree that the CPU is quite low. In every fit I had to use a CPU mod or forgo a normal low and instead put in a Nano/OD. That's without even mentioning the fact that most of the mods I used were meta so as to ease up on the CPU.
The grid just isn't that bad considering that Autocannons are the easiest to fit, even the largest using the same grid as the smallest Blasters, and less grid than the smallest Pulse lasers with the largest Pulse lasers using more PG than 250's and almost as much as 280's. |
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2082
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 20:54:00 -
[231] - Quote
The complaint against the Punisher is that it is bad solo. The same thing can be said about the incursus in large gangs (repping bonus vs resist bonus). |
Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
410
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 21:36:00 -
[232] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:The complaint against the Punisher is that it is bad solo. The same thing can be said about the incursus in large gangs (repping bonus vs resist bonus).
It's not that great in gangs, either. Without a scram/web combo or high dps, it does nothing for a gang that another hull doesn't do better. It might have use as an alpha resistant long-point platform, but it's low speed removes it from this role as well.
Punisher by nature is ideally suited to solo/small scale engagements. It's a brick that wins by attrition. That doesn't work in gangs, because you just get focused down. Unfortunately the Punisher lacks the required tools to operate in a solo environment. - Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap - -áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there? |
Koujjo Dian
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
56
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Posted - 2014.03.03 21:50:00 -
[233] - Quote
If you want to fix the Punisher, give small neuts/nos more range. Right now any other frigate with a web and a TD will kite it to death, which is just about every frigate in FW. |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
291
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 22:21:00 -
[234] - Quote
fozzie something that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later is the tristan.
As mostly only faction warfare see's this happen in massive frigate battles.
With the proposed changes to the cruor coming out. The tristan is impeding on the cruors roll. In any faction warfare battle with frigates. Tristans with 3-2 neuts dominate the fields while still having the same dps as cruors will being a meer fraction of the price. with tristans having the same ability as the cruor the cruor will almost never be used.
Someting must be changed, either the tristan gets some reduction to it cant fit 3-2 neuts or the cruor needs a significant buff to its neuting power. Most likely change is the tristan needs a reduction.
just pointing that out ccp |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1549
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 00:17:00 -
[235] - Quote
Ines Tegator wrote:X Gallentius wrote:The complaint against the Punisher is that it is bad solo. The same thing can be said about the incursus in large gangs (repping bonus vs resist bonus). It's not that great in gangs, either. Without a scram/web combo or high dps, it does nothing for a gang that another hull doesn't do better. It might have use as an alpha resistant long-point platform, but it's low speed removes it from this role as well. Punisher by nature is ideally suited to solo/small scale engagements. It's a brick that wins by attrition. That doesn't work in gangs, because you just get focused down. Unfortunately the Punisher lacks the required tools to operate in a solo environment.
The Punisher is to frigates what the Maller is to cruisers. Get a group together, back it up with logistics and perhaps links, and you have a monster. The concept just doesn't shrink down very well from the cruiser to frigate level. It's more of a lolfleet. (Who wants to run 40 14k+ EHP punisher's tonight. Guys? Guys?) |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1549
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 00:40:00 -
[236] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:
I will however have to agree that the CPU is quite low. In every fit I had to use a CPU mod or forgo a normal low and instead put in a Nano/OD. That's without even mentioning the fact that most of the mods I used were meta so as to ease up on the CPU.
The grid just isn't that bad considering that Autocannons are the easiest to fit, even the largest using the same grid as the smallest Blasters, and less grid than the smallest Pulse lasers with the largest Pulse lasers using more PG than 250's and almost as much as 280's.
The current Incursus Meta:
High: 150mm rail II x 3 Mid: AB II Meta scram Meta web Low: F-85 DC Adaptive nano II SAAR TE II Rigs: Hybrid Burst Hybrid Collision
With a warrior II and faction AM overheated you are looking at 156 DPS at 10km. Buff at least one of the rifter's stats if you want it to compete with that. CPU is fine. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
382
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 01:56:00 -
[237] - Quote
Phaade wrote:Icarus Able wrote:You are giving the Omen a speed buff....Its already possibly the best cruiser with excellent damage projection and enough lows to nano and Armor tank, while already having decent speed.
If anything the rupture needs a slight buff in speed and the stabber needs a bit more DPS. Lol, the Vexor is the best cruiser. Far and away. Omen cannot brawl, either.
I have a sideline making Vexors and Thorax, the Vexor sells exceptionally well in gallante space.
The Ammar Abitrator, nice drone boat that it is, pales in comparison. Plus the Vexor gets a navy version. Time to give the Arbitrator some lovin' i beleive. |
Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
59
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:17:00 -
[238] - Quote
I'd be happier if you balanced the price of the stuff instead of the stats, having everything cost as much as it gives in performance would be a balanced gameplay. If you want to risk more isk, you can have more performance. |
Vincintius Agrippa
F L O O D
34
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 04:12:00 -
[239] - Quote
Both the stabber and its t2 counterpart the vagabond needs help, other than the stabber fleet issue, the stabber and especially the vaga are shield ships.
With that being said, why does the vagabond have the slot layout of an armor cruiser? 4 midslots on a shield hac that has a shield boost bonus? It really seems dumb Im not suggesting shield bonuses for the stabber, rather a slot rearrangement. More specifically +1 midslot -1 highslot? The vaga could use an extra mid as well. The idea fits quite well with the mimatar ideal: agility ,speed, versatilty, among other things.
Another important fact: That -0.000000000000000000000000001 agility your giving the caracal is just downright offensive. Comical at best.
The caracal needs more pg and more cpu. Hams take up 70-75% of powergrid and cpu. have to use nealy all rigs, a low, and meta 4 with 3% pg implant plus genolutions.
plus, the stabber does need a bit of more dps |
Goldensaver
Lom Corporation Brothers of Tangra
377
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 06:26:00 -
[240] - Quote
Ronny Hugo wrote:I'd be happier if you balanced the price of the stuff instead of the stats, having everything cost as much as it gives in performance would be a balanced gameplay. If you want to risk more isk, you can have more performance. Gee, what a brilliant idea. If only there were Navy Faction and Pirate Faction ships that were exactly like that! Wouldn't that be great?
You do understand that's literally what they JUST FINISHED DOING, right? Tiericide? Killing the tiers where we had high tier, higher performing, more expensive variants of some ships? You know, how it was just a few years ago? When there was one frigate and one cruiser worth using (the Rifter and Rupture respectively). Do you remember that? I do. I'm more than glad that's changed. Rifters online was more than a little ********.
And before you go complaining that the increase in effectiveness for pirate ships for the ISK cost is too high, that's how it's supposed to be. You spend increasingly larger sums of money for decreasingly greater gains. Same thing goes for faction modules that only have a couple percentages on their Tech 2 counterpart. Tons of money for a tiny gain, because even that tiny gain can make a huge difference in the outcome of a fight. |
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