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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
466
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Posted - 2014.03.04 07:10:00 -
[241] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The Punisher is to frigates what the Maller is to cruisers. Get a group together, back it up with logistics and perhaps links, and you have a monster. The concept just doesn't shrink down very well from the cruiser to frigate level. It's more of a lolfleet. (Who wants to run 40 14k+ EHP punisher's tonight. Guys? Guys?)
It's one of the only t1 frigates I've seen used effectively for spidertanking.
For certain values of effective.
Quote:Buff at least one of the rifter's stats if you want it to compete with that.
Speed rather than fitting seems like the obvious candidate. Despite nominally being a combat frigate, a Rifter is essentially an attack frigate in terms of weight class. It's getting a minor buff, but even with that, an AB 200mm plate rifter is going ~1150 m/s, which is about 200 m/s slower than the slasher with a similar configuration and 25 m/s over the present state of things. Not that the Rifter should be as fast as the Slasher, but I don't think it's outrageous to suggest that it should be significantly faster in relation to other combat frigates than it is (as a point of comparison, I believe that Incursus fit you posted is almost exactly the same speed as the 200mm plate rifter is now). |
Ranamar
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
28
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Posted - 2014.03.04 08:05:00 -
[242] - Quote
So, I finally checked this out on Singularity, and the Kestrel really is still too heavy, IMO: it's somewhat faster than a Merlin with its prop mod off (by around 10%, I'd say) but it's *still* slower than a Merlin with both of them running their prop mods. Now, the Merlin doesn't feel terribly fast by modern T1 frigate standards, but the Kestrel's supposed to be the fast one, as opposed to the tanky one, I thought. It'd be nice if the Kestrel could at least outrun its supposedly more tank-and-gank-oriented sibling under equal conditions. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
9383
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Posted - 2014.03.04 15:34:00 -
[243] - Quote
Correcting a quick typo, the original post had listed +75m/s velocity for the Navitas, it's actually +80m/s Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
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Posted - 2014.03.04 15:56:00 -
[244] - Quote
this logistics thing is just ridiculous. I'd prefer no speed to no agility. I don't get why they can't have normal stats. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3594
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Posted - 2014.03.04 19:10:00 -
[245] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: CARACAL: +0.01 inertia
Thanks for reading, and we look forward to your feedback.
As pointed out by a corp mate, I'm not really a fan of how the caracal's ROF bonus interacts with the RLML's clip size. I think a damage bonus would be much more appropriate, as it actually increases your damage output before you need to reload. The ROF bonus simply decreases the amount of time until you need to reload.
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
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Posted - 2014.03.04 20:01:00 -
[246] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: CARACAL: +0.01 inertia
Thanks for reading, and we look forward to your feedback.
As pointed out by a corp mate, I'm not really a fan of how the caracal's ROF bonus interacts with the RLML's clip size. I think a damage bonus would be much more appropriate, as it actually increases your damage output before you need to reload. The ROF bonus simply decreases the amount of time until you need to reload. For that matter, the Bellicose could use a similar treatment.
maybe rof bonuses should decrease reload time |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1551
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Posted - 2014.03.04 20:06:00 -
[247] - Quote
That would be a nerf to HAM fits and the ten guys still using Heavies in PvE. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3594
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Posted - 2014.03.04 20:30:00 -
[248] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: CARACAL: +0.01 inertia
Thanks for reading, and we look forward to your feedback.
As pointed out by a corp mate, I'm not really a fan of how the caracal's ROF bonus interacts with the RLML's clip size. I think a damage bonus would be much more appropriate, as it actually increases your damage output before you need to reload. The ROF bonus simply decreases the amount of time until you need to reload. For that matter, the Bellicose could use a similar treatment. maybe rof bonuses should decrease reload time
This is an excellent idea!!!
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3594
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Posted - 2014.03.04 20:33:00 -
[249] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:That would be a nerf to HAM fits and the ten guys still using Heavies in PvE.
The 5% ROF bonus increases damage by 33%. So if it were replaced with a 5%/level Damage bonus, HAM fits would see an 8% reduction in dps. I don't know why it must be a 5% / level bonus though, as a 6% or 7% or more roundly 7.5% may all be reasonable.
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Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1551
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Posted - 2014.03.04 20:40:00 -
[250] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:That would be a nerf to HAM fits and the ten guys still using Heavies in PvE. The 5% ROF bonus increases damage by 33%. So if it were replaced with a 5%/level Damage bonus, HAM fits would see an 8% reduction in dps. I don't know why it must be a 5% / level bonus though, as a 6% or 7% or more roundly 7.5% may all be reasonable.
I misread Trouser's post as 'replace' |
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Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
181
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Posted - 2014.03.04 21:01:00 -
[251] - Quote
The problem with balancing the punisher and the rifter is that an extra midslot counters the utility high. Mid slots allow range control while the nos/neut require said range control. Compare rifter vs slasher or punisher vs incursus. An both cases an extra web wil nullify a nos or a neut. |
Koujjo Dian
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
58
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Posted - 2014.03.04 22:31:00 -
[252] - Quote
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:The problem with balancing the punisher and the rifter is that an extra midslot counters the utility high. Mid slots allow range control while the nos/neut require said range control. Compare rifter vs slasher or punisher vs incursus. An both cases an extra web wil nullify a nos or a neut.
Agreed. Small nos/neut range should be the same as web range. This is a problem that only frigates suffer from due to the increased range of medium nos/neuts. Currently mid slots are WAY more valuable than utility highs on frigates and leads to a handful of popular fits for solo frigate PVP. |
Udonor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
52
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Posted - 2014.03.05 08:40:00 -
[253] - Quote
Ransu Asanari wrote:I'm honestly not a fan of the Breacher ROF change. Having the damage bonus not be type-specific meant it was one of the few ships that could actually use the missile advantage of selectable damage, and was very versatile. I really enjoyed flying the Breacher during the Stay Frosty Frigate FFA and used this to great effect.
Changing this to a ROF bonus feels like a nerf, since it means you're doing less damage between reloads and you're running out of ammo faster.
Agreed -- Breacher now gets the same problems as rapid launchers -- not being able to finish off ships before a reload & if those ships can rep...you lose. At least a Caracal with 5 rapid launchers can finish off a few smallers ships before reload. Maybe you give the Breacher a 10% bonus to magazine capacity to at least offset time between reloads?
If instead the reload issues is a CCP attempt to move the necessity for fleets down to noobland...well I think you need to add some more obvious incentives (e.g. 10% fleet bonus to NPC & PVP bounties due to multi-source confirmation of kills) or people will try solo anyways and just conclude the games sucks and the hardcore will just wait until they can skip frigates. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2035
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Posted - 2014.03.05 08:53:00 -
[254] - Quote
Talking about the breacher.
Can you fix the capacity on rocket launchers? Its ******* stupid. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
563
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Posted - 2014.03.05 14:39:00 -
[255] - Quote
and torpedo charge volume and/or launcher capacity |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2972
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 15:20:00 -
[256] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:BREACHER: Removed +5% missile damage bonus Added -5% missile RoF bonus I'll echo the sentiments already posted: RoF is a Caldari trait and missile damage is a Minmatar trait, so this is effectively a nerf. Please reconsider just leaving this as a damage bonus. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
563
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Posted - 2014.03.05 15:23:00 -
[257] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:BREACHER: Removed +5% missile damage bonus Added -5% missile RoF bonus I'll echo the sentiments already posted: RoF is a Caldari trait and missile damage is a Minmatar trait, so this is effectively a nerf. Please reconsider just leaving this as a damage bonus.
**** the 'traits'. if it needs more damage, give it a larger damage bonus. |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
366
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Posted - 2014.03.05 23:59:00 -
[258] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Phaade wrote:Icarus Able wrote:You are giving the Omen a speed buff....Its already possibly the best cruiser with excellent damage projection and enough lows to nano and Armor tank, while already having decent speed.
If anything the rupture needs a slight buff in speed and the stabber needs a bit more DPS. Lol, the Vexor is the best cruiser. Far and away. Omen cannot brawl, either. I have a sideline making Vexors and Thorax, the Vexor sells exceptionally well in gallante space. The Ammar Abitrator, nice drone boat that it is, pales in comparison. Plus the Vexor gets a navy version. Time to give the Arbitrator some lovin' i beleive. I love vexor and hate the fact its getting nerfed but I agree that arbitrator is just crap and doesn't get used at all.
I have seen maybe 1 since cruiser buff.
1
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Ransu Asanari
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
97
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Posted - 2014.03.06 03:18:00 -
[259] - Quote
A few people have pointed out the ROF bonus (mostly relating to the Caracal) - is a problem when you have variable reload times. This is one of the bigger issues that was introduced with the Rapid Missile Launchers in Rubicon - where the reload time is 40 seconds (now 35). Until we fix that, a ROF bonus is distinctly worse than a straight damage bonus. You can see the 200+ page threadnaught on RLML/RHML for more info on that - we don't need to get into it again.
The ammo swap problem introduced by the Rapid Launchers hasn't been fixed yet, and from CCP Rise's last response on the subject, looks like its going to be delayed due to development resources.
If we're already talking about tweaking other stuff to balance the ROF bonus (magazine capacity, reload time), I'd say it's pretty undesirable compared to a straight damage bonus. |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
594
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Posted - 2014.03.06 10:36:00 -
[260] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: CARACAL: +0.01 inertia
Thanks for reading, and we look forward to your feedback.
As pointed out by a corp mate, I'm not really a fan of how the caracal's ROF bonus interacts with the RLML's clip size. I think a damage bonus would be much more appropriate, as it actually increases your damage output before you need to reload. The ROF bonus simply decreases the amount of time until you need to reload. For that matter, the Bellicose could use a similar treatment. maybe rof bonuses should decrease reload time
I second the motion. |
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Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2997
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Posted - 2014.03.06 11:11:00 -
[261] - Quote
Ransu Asanari wrote:Can someone run the math on how a +7.5% damage bonus/level would compare to the +5% ROF bonus on the Breacher? The math is simple: when you overheat missiles you already get a RoF bonus, so damage is preferable. It's why T1-+T2-+Faction launchers feature increased ammunition capacity to offset a higher rate of fire. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Vincintius Agrippa
F L O O D
34
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Posted - 2014.03.06 19:34:00 -
[262] - Quote
I dislike the rof change to the breacher. I fly rocket breachers.
Heres why I dislike it: 1 Rockets have high rof as it is, Overheated rocket launchers burn out quick! even more so on rof bonused hulls. rof drops to like 1.5 seconds Youre essentially cutting Oh time to less than half.
Increasing rof is not always a good idea, ie cap intensive weapons, as it causes weapon cycles to decrease. There has to be a balance between rof an raw damage. |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
3000
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Posted - 2014.03.07 03:05:00 -
[263] - Quote
So apparently these hit next Tuesday... Guess the RoF is set in-stone at this point... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Justin Cody
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
111
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Posted - 2014.03.07 14:47:00 -
[264] - Quote
[Rifter, RFT]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Damage Control II Overdrive Injector System II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
200mm AutoCannon II 200mm AutoCannon II 200mm AutoCannon II Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Seems fine to me...I don't really see a problem. I can engage someone doing 3.4K/sec before links or heat, do dood dps once I have them tackled and have decent ehp with decent resists.
And for medium ancilary shield?
[Rifter, RFT]
Internal Force Field Array I Power Diagnostic System II Overdrive Injector System II
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
200mm AutoCannon II 200mm AutoCannon II 200mm AutoCannon II Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
everything fits with no problems and only one fitting rig and a power diag which has benefits in addition to fitting (more shield, more shield recharge, more cap, more cap recharge)
Sure no gyro is fit but you also have the slot flexibility on the rifter to armor tank as well as shield. |
Justin Cody
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
111
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Posted - 2014.03.07 15:19:00 -
[265] - Quote
[Rifter, RFT]
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core Internal Force Field Array I 400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Rocket Launcher II 150mm Light AutoCannon II 150mm Light AutoCannon II 150mm Light AutoCannon II
Small Anti-Thermic Pump I Small Anti-Explosive Pump I Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I
stop moaning here's an armor fit |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1563
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Posted - 2014.03.07 17:09:00 -
[266] - Quote
Those Rifter fits would not cut it in FW. Most brawler frigs would web, scram, and hold you at 8km where they do full damage and your future Rifter would be stuck at ~48 - 60 DPS. Your shield fits get DPS of 121 overheated with faction and you get 40% of that at falloff. Even if I trade the Neut for a rocket launcher and the MWD for an AB - afterburners are popular in FW - I still need a fitting module or rig for your fits.
I do fly Rifters in FW.
High: 200mm II x 3 Rocket Launcher II Mid: AB II Web II Scram II Low: SAAR DC II Adaptive Nano II Rigs: Projectile Burst Armor Nano x 2
This is the only fit that can do anything in FW imho. It has some range control with scram range kiters. It puts out 156 DPS. It reps 129 DPS for a short period of time. Arty fit the same way? 250s only do about 100 DPS and 450ish alpha. The rocket launcher won't fit. The rail fit incursus I posted above in this thread does 145ish DPS, has a SAAR, and no fitting issues.
The shield fit rifter is a dead concept. Fitting mod because you can't fit everything. Overdrive because you have no CPU left. It's not that you can't find fits - it's that everything else does NOT suffer from fitting issues and is so much better in every way.
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2036
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Posted - 2014.03.07 19:14:00 -
[267] - Quote
Justin Cody wrote:[Rifter, RFT]
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core Internal Force Field Array I 400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Rocket Launcher II 150mm Light AutoCannon II 150mm Light AutoCannon II 150mm Light AutoCannon II
Small Anti-Thermic Pump I Small Anti-Explosive Pump I Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I
stop moaning here's an armor fit
IFFA on a Rifter?
0/10 BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
The Lobsters
WE FIGHT
70
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Posted - 2014.03.07 22:10:00 -
[268] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Justin Cody wrote:[Rifter, RFT]
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core Internal Force Field Array I 400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Rocket Launcher II 150mm Light AutoCannon II 150mm Light AutoCannon II 150mm Light AutoCannon II
Small Anti-Thermic Pump I Small Anti-Explosive Pump I Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I
stop moaning here's an armor fit IFFA on a Rifter? 0/10
And the rest. If you can afford to put iffa's and navy power core on your Rifter you can afford to splash out on genoloutions and a pg. I don't even know what that fit's supposed to do.
Also, that rof bonus on the breacher is gonna eat into precious overheat time. Not sure the breacher needs the buff. It's hands down the most deadly t1 frig. I stopped flying it because I got bored of winning all the time, if you can believe that.
That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested his claim. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2037
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 01:57:00 -
[269] - Quote
The Lobsters wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Justin Cody wrote:[Rifter, RFT]
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core Internal Force Field Array I 400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Rocket Launcher II 150mm Light AutoCannon II 150mm Light AutoCannon II 150mm Light AutoCannon II
Small Anti-Thermic Pump I Small Anti-Explosive Pump I Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I
stop moaning here's an armor fit IFFA on a Rifter? 0/10 And the rest. If you can afford to put iffa's on your Rifter you can afford to splash out on genolutions and a pg. I don't even know what that fit's supposed to do. Also, that rof bonus on the breacher is gonna eat into precious overheat time. Not sure the breacher needs the buff. It's hands down the most deadly t1 frig. I stopped flying it because I got bored of winning all the time, if you can believe that.
ROF bonuses on rockets also generally means that you run out of ammo about 70% through a long fight <.< BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Bob Niac
Joint Espionage and Defence Industries Preatoriani
51
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Posted - 2014.03.08 02:06:00 -
[270] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hello everyone!
=snip=
Cruisers: The Augoror, Maller and Omen are getting the Amarr increased mass increased speed treatment, and there are also several other minor tweaks here and there.
OSPREY: +10 m/s +0.02 inertia -130000 mass
Thanks for reading, and we look forward to your feedback.
sweet jeebus thank you! Does this transfer to the T2 variants? I <3 Logistics: Pilot of all -áT2 logi and my shiny Archon [deceased.] Also a Chimera which may or may not be horrid. I don't make games, I play them. I get that ppl are passionate about change. I post here to plant seeds. You see your idea as is? Holy **** you win! So let's post, and see what the DEVs and our peers use. |
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