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Malken
Anomalous Existence
50
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Posted - 2014.02.27 09:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
with the current jita situation and the load on jita decentalising the trade wich pulls everyone to jita could be the thing to release the strain.
my suggestion is that make all trades in jita and all systems 1 jump away share market and deliver any order bought to the system/station they are at in that ring of systems.
lets say i am in new caldari and buys something that has been put up for sale in jita 4-4 then i get it delivered to a new caldari station.
that would decentralise the load of the servers alot i think.
Gÿ+/ /Gûî / \
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
317
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Posted - 2014.02.27 09:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bit tricky when one jump from Jita you can be in any of three seperate regional markets. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
1807
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Posted - 2014.02.27 09:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
It wouldn't actually change anything. People would still go to Jita because there's no reason not to go to Jita like they always have done.
A long time ago, Yulai used to be the central market hub. The servers were much weaker back then and absolutely could not handle the strain. To alleviate the problem, CCP snapped the jump routes that connected Yulai to all the empires so conveniently. Something lore-wise was made up about fighting counterfeiting and smugglers. The hub moved to Jita, proving to CCP that if there's a way - any way - for there to be a central market hub, one will rise.
If it's interesting to you, Yulai quickly began to decay and is now a ghost town. The market in that system is still centered in the CONCORD Bureau station as it always was, and is still stocked with a few ships and a little ammo, but basically nobody goes there anymore except some macro miners.
The point is that even if you did manage to forcibly dethrone Jita - even if it took something as drastic as snapping gates (it would) - a new central hub would rise somewhere. Probably one jump before Uedama.
FWIW, I would love to see the market decentralized. I would love to see Dodixie return to its former splendor, Hek become the true shining star of Minmatar space and Amarr... well, Amarr's already sorta comparable to Jita so whatever. I would love to see regional markets actually be significantly different from each other (they're not really that different right now) with different prices for the same items and different sorts of things selling better here or there. Unfortunately the reality of things is that it's extremely unlikely without drastic and truly dramatic measures that I doubt CCP would be wise to even consider.
Instead, maybe CCP can restore those snapped jumpgates from so long ago and perhaps we can see the central trade hub move back to Yulai. It would certainly cut down on people having to choose their FW allegiances based on market accessibility and make a lot more sense from a lore point of view (if you care about that). |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
257
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Posted - 2014.02.27 10:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
I prefer Amarr anyways.
BTW. Why not raise some Tax if you sell or buy stuff from other Factions for example, 1% Tax for Amarr Stuff in Caldari Space. |
Malken
Anomalous Existence
50
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Posted - 2014.02.27 10:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Bit tricky when one jump from Jita you can be in any of three seperate regional markets.
that can be fixed by making a brand new jita trade union region for those systems.
Gÿ+/ /Gûî / \
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Malken
Anomalous Existence
50
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Posted - 2014.02.27 10:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:It wouldn't actually change anything. People would still go to Jita because there's no reason not to go to Jita like they always have done.
A long time ago, Yulai used to be the central market hub. The servers were much weaker back then and absolutely could not handle the strain. To alleviate the problem, CCP snapped the jump routes that connected Yulai to all the empires so conveniently. Something lore-wise was made up about fighting counterfeiting and smugglers. The hub moved to Jita, proving to CCP that if there's a way - any way - for there to be a central market hub, one will rise.
If it's interesting to you, Yulai quickly began to decay and is now a ghost town. The market in that system is still centered in the CONCORD Bureau station as it always was, and is still stocked with a few ships and a little ammo, but basically nobody goes there anymore except some macro miners.
The point is that even if you did manage to forcibly dethrone Jita - even if it took something as drastic as snapping gates (it would) - a new central hub would rise somewhere. Probably one jump before Uedama.
FWIW, I would love to see the market decentralized. I would love to see Dodixie return to its former splendor, Hek become the true shining star of Minmatar space and Amarr... well, Amarr's already sorta comparable to Jita so whatever. I would love to see regional markets actually be significantly different from each other (they're not really that different right now) with different prices for the same items and different sorts of things selling better here or there. Unfortunately the reality of things is that it's extremely unlikely without drastic and truly dramatic measures that I doubt CCP would be wise to even consider.
Instead, maybe CCP can restore those snapped jumpgates from so long ago and perhaps we can see the central trade hub move back to Yulai. It would certainly cut down on people having to choose their FW allegiances based on market accessibility and make a lot more sense from a lore point of view (if you care about that).
it could as people wouldnt have to go all the way in to jita 4-4 to buy the stuff, they could be in maurasi or new caldari and thereby lessen the strain on the jita system itself.
and i would love to be able to do my shopping in yulai as in the olden days.
Gÿ+/ /Gûî / \
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Arh Mezz
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
2
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Posted - 2014.02.27 10:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
i don't really see a problem in jita.
it's perfectly fine for me.
If your argument is that the servers can barely handle 2k people in jita, i say to you that server cpu technologies don't stand still. |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
442
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Posted - 2014.02.27 11:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
In order to decentralise the trade in Jita you have to change peoples desire to use large trade hubs with access to a large volume and diversity of market goods. While there are things that CCP could do to make Jita a poor place for a central market to be situated another would just rise in its place. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
317
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Posted - 2014.02.27 11:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Malken wrote:
it could as people wouldnt have to go all the way in to jita 4-4 to buy the stuff, they could be in maurasi or new caldari and thereby lessen the strain on the jita system itself.
and i would love to be able to do my shopping in yulai as in the olden days.
You can buy and sell stuff stuff in Jita from anywhere in region with the right trade skills.
Its moving it that might be an issue, but Red frog will move up to a Billion ISK of stuff at a time one jump out of Jita for just one million ISK. |
Malken
Anomalous Existence
50
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Posted - 2014.02.27 12:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Samillian wrote:In order to decentralise the trade in Jita you have to change peoples desire to use large trade hubs with access to a large volume and diversity of market goods. While there are things that CCP could do to make Jita a poor place for a central market to be situated another would just rise in its place.
thats the issue, if it were changed by snipping routes and such another would just take its place like when yulai were snipped
thats why i thought of having the "jita Region" as a single market not by cutting it off from others but instead dispere the traffic to a single system for trade and instead have same trade accessed and delivered by the "jita trade union" to the station/system you are at in those systems. wich would make everyone NOT needing to go all the way in to jita to shop and pickup stuff but could instead stop in niyabainen or maurasi for example.
maybe a little brainworm for the dev's to think about as you cannot stop the people to go to the location of the goods to shop but if you make the goods available over a bigger area then the congestions wouldnt be so annoying as the trade would still be centralised there but with spreading the congestion over a bigger area thus alleviating it.
Gÿ+/ /Gûî / \
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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
406
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Posted - 2014.02.27 13:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
You want to disperse trade?
Make hacking a thing. Let trade warriors bump other orders in their station off the market completely, cancel production and research orders, and in general make secure station services less secure.
I would bet the markets spread to the ends of space as people try and find out of the way corners to set up buisness that wont be immediatly torpedoed by the next guy in line. |
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope Gallente Federation
118
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Posted - 2014.02.27 15:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
I don't think merging the markets would work, because iirc Jita gets a special node that's reinforced. I've been in battles where they've used the jita node to try to keep the battle from crashing due to number of players.
The reason, I have heard, is that you can't use multiple nodes for the same system. The amount of people doing the trades and the congestion in Jita local make it unlikely that CCP would want to pack more systems onto the jjita server, which would seem to be required if all trades are to go without a hitch in a linked market.
...and then theres the outposts, jita 4-4 is the place to go to sell, because its the place to go to sell. Tautological, yes, but people sell in that one station in that one system for the convenience of being in one place. I have stuff in all the other stations in jita I probably wont use because I'd have to undock to go get it, and bring it back. Too much of a PITA, and that the same thing that would happen if the market were expanded. Its not that jita is a trade hub, it is just that one station that is the trade hub. Get some Eve. Make it yours.
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Koffin Nail
Vinnell Corporation
0
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Posted - 2014.02.27 16:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Always gets rejected, but centralized market would fix any problem if it existed. dodixie, jita, amarr, hek, rens. List something for sale in Jita, can be bought in Amarr. Some teleportation sequence if buying from another region with say 1/2 hour delay. Instant if buying from the station. The market manipulators and bots would cry, but would make gameplay more enjoyable. |
Zamyslinski
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
6
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Posted - 2014.02.27 16:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
Seperate empires with low/null sec problem solved, new trade hubs will emerge |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2217
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Posted - 2014.02.27 16:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
This sounds like yet another good reason to separate the empires with low sec. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
JetStream Drenard
EVE University Ivy League
34
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Posted - 2014.02.27 16:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
Zamyslinski wrote:Seperate empires with low/null sec problem solved, new trade hubs will emerge perhaps. but it wont stop jump freighters and blockade runners. But it could stop the vast majority of traffic in Jita. It might not create more price variety between hubs, at least with player built items, because the price is generally dependent upon manufacturing costs.
OP, the phenomenon of Jita is emergent gameplay, it should not be stopped with artificially induced market mechanics. |
Fereval Kondur
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
14
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Posted - 2014.02.27 16:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Koffin Nail wrote:centralized market would fix any problem if it existed. dodixie, jita, amarr, hek, rens. List something for sale in Jita, can be bought in Amarr. Some teleportation sequence if buying from another region with say 1/2 hour delay. Instant if buying from the station. The market manipulators and bots would cry, but would make gameplay more enjoyable.
Plain and simple Heresy.
I find the idea of highsec empire islands quite interesting however... "Meanwhile Star Citizen devs announce collectible fish for aquarium in hangars"... General signs of turmoils have been reported amongst New Eden's veteran capsulers masses. Bring the Jukebox back ! |
Batelle
HOMELE55
1962
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Posted - 2014.02.27 16:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
Malken wrote: my suggestion is that make all trades in jita and all systems 1 jump away share market and deliver any order bought to the system/station they are at in that ring of systems.
lets say i am in new caldari and buys something that has been put up for sale in jita 4-4 then i get it delivered to a new caldari station.
The servers are fine.
Magic mailboxes were proposed just a few days ago and shot down. The answer is no. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
346
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Posted - 2014.02.27 16:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
I made this...you made this...I made this.
This is my suggestion you thief.
And it would solve the issue with Jita if CCP sees it as a problem that is.
edit: You even used my example system. editedit: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4272357#post4272357 Come on guy. |
Malken
Anomalous Existence
50
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Posted - 2014.02.27 19:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
actually no i didnt. i just been stopped at that damn jita gate to many times the last week that i started thinking about it a few times. i had a similar thought way back when yulai was having problems and crashing.
and calling people thieves for thinking alike isnt smart either, it just shows that maybe the idea has some merit if more people see it as a problem and have similar ideas on fixing it.
and it is obviously a problem when the gates to jita is closed for hours several times a week.
Gÿ+/ /Gûî / \
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JetStream Drenard
EVE University Ivy League
36
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Posted - 2014.02.27 20:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
Here is an idea... Stop going to Jita. There are plenty of other good trade hubs, use them. You want to limit Jita traffic, and you are part of the problem. And NPC couriers, apart from being an artificial fix, even of one jump will only spread the problem to New Caldari and Perimeter. It might only compound the problem by encouraging more people to shop there and majic mail their crap next door.. I only go there when/if I absolutely have to, which has been 3 times in the last 7 months.
Separate the empire space with low sec. |
Torijace
Aliastra Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2014.02.27 20:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
Their is a mechanic already in place to help decentralize jita. as a trade hub you could remove faction NPC police and have have players in faction warfare police trade hubs for opposing factions. Then make factions matter by putting a lot more faction missions in the mission pools and as NPCs to kill. Ultimately you push players into factions and have faction warfare separate the market hubs.
My 2 Cents |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1120
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Posted - 2014.02.27 20:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Idea in my tag could help.
Just saying. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
79
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Posted - 2014.02.27 21:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
I quite like moving it to yulai - doesn't forcibly decentralize jita, just moves it, but DOES make it accessible to players of all FW's |
JetStream Drenard
EVE University Ivy League
36
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Posted - 2014.02.27 21:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:I quite like moving it to yulai - doesn't forcibly decentralize jita, just moves it, but DOES make it accessible to players of all FW's how are you going to move it? CCP didnt create market hubs, the players did. If CCP just reinforced / distrubted the jita nodes this post wouldnt really even exist |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
408
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Posted - 2014.02.28 00:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cutting the high sec routes would not kill Jita, it would just hand all trade over to the big alliances as they moved in and closed the pipes, drive up costs, and hand gate campers a few extra kills for a while.
Make station services as contested as anything else in EVE, and people will spread out to find a quiet spot. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
1815
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Posted - 2014.02.28 08:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
JetStream Drenard wrote:Xe'Cara'eos wrote:I quite like moving it to yulai - doesn't forcibly decentralize jita, just moves it, but DOES make it accessible to players of all FW's how are you going to move it? CCP didnt create market hubs, the players did. If CCP just reinforced / distrubted the jita nodes this post wouldnt really even exist
The theory is that restoring the gates easily linking Yulai to every empire would restore Yulai as a market hub simply because it would be easier and quicker to reach than Jita, as well as being FW-unaligned territory.
As for reinforcing, the Jita node runs on its own dedicated, ultra-hardened super-node. |
JetStream Drenard
EVE University Ivy League
36
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Posted - 2014.02.28 13:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:JetStream Drenard wrote:Xe'Cara'eos wrote:I quite like moving it to yulai - doesn't forcibly decentralize jita, just moves it, but DOES make it accessible to players of all FW's how are you going to move it? CCP didnt create market hubs, the players did. If CCP just reinforced / distrubted the jita nodes this post wouldnt really even exist The theory is that restoring the gates easily linking Yulai to every empire would restore Yulai as a market hub simply because it would be easier and quicker to reach than Jita, as well as being FW-unaligned territory. As for reinforcing, the Jita node runs on its own dedicated, ultra-hardened super-node. oh ok. Maybe its time that they re wrote the entire game based on multi-hyper-threading or whatever. not a computer guy. but eve version two that can incorporate super distributed processing and reduce lag and server overload everywhere. Then they can fix the bad mechanics that cant under the current model. They should allow us to transfer our characters over too. There was a post a while back about this. In the short run it might cost a lot, but in the long run it might save both money by doing more with less as well as save the game from going obsolete. edit: i expect to be playing for 20 years, so taking the long view. |
Rhnra Pahineh
Organized-Chaos Apocalypse Now.
21
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Posted - 2014.03.02 14:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
JetStream Drenard wrote:oh ok. Maybe its time that they re wrote the entire game based on multi-hyper-threading or whatever. not a computer guy. but eve version two that can incorporate super distributed processing and reduce lag and server overload everywhere. Then they can fix the bad mechanics that cant under the current model. They should allow us to transfer our characters over too. There was a post a while back about this. In the short run it might cost a lot, but in the long run it might save both money by doing more with less as well as save the game from going obsolete. edit: i expect to be playing for 20 years, so taking the long view.
Reworking a game mechanics while this one is in production is way more difficult to do than you might think it is. For what I understand, this is more of a hardware issue than a software one.
Therefore, my solution would be to enact 'laws' to restrict activities in hubs. Like a new tax or a permit to stay. I mean, if you are officials and you see so much market activity on one of your systems, the sane option would be to get a very little cut from that activity. So, in that way, it'll push people to got where things are cheaper and eventually reduce the charge on the mega hub.
Think about it, with all the sell/buy orders and the actual tax, there is already a way to get filthy rich. But the system becomes clogged, and nobody wants that. What are your way to get the things going smooth again? Well, what do we want in the system? People that sell and people that buy. But those guys can do that from afar. So, officials could just allow special peoples in - those who have a licence maybe? - and run their business with dedicated transporters. Now, closing the gates would not be a nice idea for everything not market related. But from where we stand, we don't really care if somebody needs to do several jumps more to get to another place in the galaxy. Plus, licences can be brought and sold by the players, creating its own economy. Licence could be valid for an individual, a whole corporation or an alliance.
Anyway, any sane government would do something about the issue. I mean, there is so much people at undocking from station that it render the view ridiculous. That entrance isn't big enough! That station should be bigger, a lot bigger. As a personnal wish, I would love to see a ring torus serving as trade hub around that planet. |
Malken
Anomalous Existence
51
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Posted - 2014.03.06 12:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
another way to decentralise jita is to up taxes on sales in a clogged up system like jita is. when trades rise to a certain level then the taxes go up alot and makes it not as profitable to trade there and thus moving some trade away from jita to other nearby systems.
another brainworm for the devs to mull over.
Gÿ+/ /Gûî / \
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