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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3000
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 17:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
I lived in nullsec a few years ago, so I have some idea on what there is to be done out there, but it never seemed to me to be a huge golden cash-cow. Since I'm not about to abandon my current activities to go check it out myself, I would like to ask you, GD, to give me some figures.
Note: I don't care how much money an alliance or coalition makes from renting, moon mining, or other such activities. This is a question about personal income of average nullsec residents at varying skill levels.
Some examples:
- Independent mining with a new character, or "ninja-mining" in hostile space
- Mining with a fully-skilled character and support fleet (boosts etc)
- Belt ratting with a meta BC setup; belt ratting with a maxed out BS setup
- Anomalies (different incomes from different anomalies); are sanctums still everyone's favorite?
- Data/Relic site exploration?
- Combat site exploration? How common are escalations and finding extremely valuable loot?
- Industry? Shipping in stuff vs. local manufacturing?
There are probably some things I've missed. I think there's a lot of misinformation (disinformation?) around what those evil mean nullseccers get by puppeteering CCP, so let's set it straight. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Mirel Dystoph
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
90
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 17:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quote:Note: I don't care how much money an alliance or coalition makes from renting, moon mining, or other such activities. This is a question about personal income of average nullsec residents at varying skill levels. So little, that most of the nullsec people have 1-3 chars dedicated to highsec activities (L4, Trading, Incursions) or FW. "Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise."-á |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
116
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 18:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
You can calculate the mining yields yourself. So do so.
In fact with some googling and math you can calculate anomaly ratting too. So you should do that. Or come out here yourself. Either or. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2302
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 18:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Please, for the sake of all that is good in the world, not another thread about income levels. Can we stop with the propaganda wars for a couple weeks?
CCP has the numbers, so the forum wars are pointless. But if you do want to get into it, consider this: the failed lawyer in his last message to his minions was exhorting every member of goons to get into a Titan, or failing that, a supercap. Guess they don't seem to have a problem with income. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
57
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 18:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Null is where I made the most isk for all of the cap ship skills I have. But that also took a while between neuts camping and alliance being a kb ****, being attacked by blues, cta to goon space every day to look tough etc. most of the time I go to null it's to run the market which I end up not doing because if ctas, which is why null secors say they make so little and they have alts in empire to grind missions. "Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mine" -Dr. Smith |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3001
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 18:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mirel Dystoph wrote:So little, that most of the nullsec people have 1-3 chars dedicated to highsec activities (L4, Trading, Incursions) or FW.
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Guess they don't seem to have a problem with income.
See, this is what confuses me. That's why I asked for actual figures. Dinsdale, I'm aware that the "failed lawyer" has money coming out of every orifice, but again, that is not what my post is concerned with. If I were to go to nullsec and join any old ******* alliance, what income can I expect to have? Real numbers.
Last time I was in nullsec my income was quite low, but that was in part because I refused to train big ships (to run anomalies/exploration), and because I find PvE inherently boring, so I preferred to throw Rifters around. That is why I'm out of touch with the numbers, and am curious to find out. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3001
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 18:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Agondray wrote:Null is where I made the most isk for all of the cap ship skills I have. But that also took a while between neuts camping and alliance being a kb ****, being attacked by blues, cta to goon space every day to look tough etc. most of the time I go to null it's to run the market which I end up not doing because if ctas, which is why null secors say they make so little and they have alts in empire to grind missions. WTF did I just read. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4944
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 18:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Please, for the sake of all that is good in the world, not another thread about income levels. Can we stop with the propaganda wars for a couple weeks?
CCP has the numbers, so the forum wars are pointless. But if you do want to get into it, consider this: the failed lawyer in his last message to his minions was exhorting every member of goons to get into a Titan, or failing that, a supercap. Guess they don't seem to have a problem with income.
Especially with so many in high sec to make that isk.......
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Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
932
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 18:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Relics can drop anywhere from 30-100 mil per site from the plain loot, and depending on how much you blow up. Good skills and the right strategy with the game and spew should be getting 90% of the isk value of loot from each site. I'd estimate that 1 out of 40 sites dropped a pos module BPC from ~10-20 mil. 1 in 200 sites may drop a tower BPC for anywhere from 300mil to 2 bil.
Datas much lower, like 30 mil max per site from "regular" loot if you are lucky, mainly from the optimized decryptors and T2 BPCs. Again the same rate for the faction BPC drops.
In a week if I was dedicated to carebearing I would average about 1.5bil - 2 billion a week from relic and data alone, after attending CTAs.
DED sites, too random to put an isk per hour on. First is the spawn rate. I scanned half the region each day, on the best day there may be 3 DED spawn max in the whole place. this was rare. Sometimes a whole week would go by without no spawn at all, or at least, no spawn not taken by competition already. I'd say over half the time was just a overseer tier drop, or overseer+crap. 6/10 are considered to have the best effort/reward ratio. A 6/10 dropped 2bil once, and 1.5 bil another time. Those though were two outliers in a three month period. 7/10 would have such a bad effort/reward ratio that people wouldn't even bother doing it even when I gave them the bookmark for free. 8/10 were meh as well. Basically, these were a nice bonus, but not a steady income source.
Plain combat signatures I can't speak to.
Belt ratting, not even worth the words to write about.
Anoms I got like 30 mil per tick with this toon from forsaken hubs, with 40 mil SP spread out across a lot of skill areas, so no specialisation for max DPS in this area. Never saw or heard anyone getting the crazy ticks that are spoken about. I gave up anoms for the relic and data as they were crap for me the way I was skilled.
Industry, not even worth doing unless you absolutely love it. The way T2 system is designed it is just pointless hassle to build T2 in 0.0. For the Henry Ford In Space individual industrialist, they will always will be better in highsec.
Mining I never did. A corpmate miner who multiboxed like 7 characters did say that a Mackinaw loss would put him back a day's worth of mining just to replace it, whatever that implies.
Ninja mining in 0.0? For income? This would be a good idea, I put an idea for a better venture for older miner who wanted to ninja, the way explorers do, and also considering the grav sites did used to be part of exploration technically.
All of this remember has to be weighed against costs of doing business, either cloaking up when combat probes were put out by a neutral, time spent on CTA, time spent docked when hotdroppers were about,
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3002
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 18:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:~stuff~ Thanks, dude! That's exactly what I was looking for. Sounds like the biggest, easiest income is from relic sites. How's their spawn rate? Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
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Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
935
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 18:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:~stuff~ Thanks, dude! That's exactly what I was looking for. Sounds like the biggest, easiest income is from relic sites. How's their spawn rate?
If that survey upgarde thing is installed, then the spawn is quite frequent. Mainly it will be Temples and Monuments which give an average payout, 30-60 mil maybe on average each of these. Science outposts are decent but spawn less frequent.. Crystal Quarry is the rarest, maybe I found 1 or 2 Crystals Quarries a week, and again the randomess of these means a crystal quarry CAN give 100mil+ but, it can also give crap a lot of times too. When people say "i got 100 mil in relics from 10 minutes of work" without a faction BPC drop, they mean they found a decent crustal quarry, but the next two they find may only pay out 50mil. A Temple is probably the equivalent of a Forsaken Hub when it comes to hacking.
The thing with these are they are for the few in an alliance who enjoy hacking, or trained for Hacking and Arch. A total alliance can not go out and all do hacking, they simply would overwhelm the spawns and you would be searching for days to find one, so when speaking about null income you need to keep that in mind. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4944
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 18:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken has a pretty good grasp on it. Especially how belt ratting is crap lol.
Anomalies are the most common sov null pve activity. Most anomalies are absolutly worthless and not worth the effort (some of the worst paying anomalies are also the most dangerous because of spawn triggers that can leave yo scrammed AND facing loads of npc battleships).
The Only anomalies that provide better isk/hr than just staying in high sec running level 4 missions are Sanctums, Havens, Forsaken Hubs, Forlorn Hubs and Forsaken Rally Points. The best upgraded null systems in existence can sustain maybe 7 pilots farming them, any more than that and you're making less than if you'd stayed in the safety of high sec. This is probably part of the reason why so much of sov null is good for nothing but renting to small corps and alliances too weak or young to take space for themselves.
When i lived in Serpentis space (the northeast) my Vindicator could do 125 mil an hour in forsaken hubs. Same Vindicator could make as much in a high sec incursion fleet and WAY more in an ISN (Incursion Shiney Network) HQ fleet.
Under the right circumstances, you can make "more" isk in Sov null than you can in high sec. "More" doesn't matter when you pass the point of "can I plex my account(s)". I made 8.3 bil last month simply and casually running high sec Sisters and Trust Partners missions with the odd incursion fleet thrown in, which left me a whole lot of isk to throw away on other crap after I spent only 2.5 bil on plex for 4 accounts. Who cares if i could have made a bil or 2 more outside of high sec, for many of us isk is a tool not an end.
(also, to the guys talking about working and just buying GTCs, while yo were at work, I was at home drinking beer, shooting the **** over comes and damn near butt ass naked. Screw your working for a GTC lol).
There is absolutely no financial incentive for someone like me (with enough experience and SP to know what to do) to leave high sec. The only reason I'm in null right this second (and spent the last week exploring low and c2-3 wormholes) is boredom which again is why most of sov null is a desert worthy only of renting to others. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10237
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 18:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:~stuff~ Thanks, dude! That's exactly what I was looking for. Sounds like the biggest, easiest income is from relic sites. How's their spawn rate?
Random.
As for the likes of anoms, you are better off in high sec blitzing level 4s. PI is better than everywhere else but mining isn't too hot unless you go for ice, keep your eye on that one. The stockpiles are starting to run out and there is only one way for it to go. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2572
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 18:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
in the last thread, a guy did anoms in an ishtar (sposed to be the most practical ship for hubs) and put the numbers into a spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing#gid=0 |
RAIN Arthie
The Ascended Fleet Intrepid Crossing
222
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 18:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Those who talk don't know. Those who know don't talk. |
Em arr Roids
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 19:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nice job to the guy who did the spread sheet. Now we just need someone to spend 24 hours in total running nullsec plexes, data and relic sites and see how that actually compares. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2029
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 19:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dear me, not this again.
Please folks, only one of these poor null-sec, rich hi-sec easy risk free isk; in a Velator armed with mining lasers blitizing lvl 4 missions threads per month. This is not a signature. |
Em arr Roids
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 19:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Dear me, not this again.
Please folks, only one of these poor null-sec, rich hi-sec easy risk free isk; in a Velator armed with mining lasers blitizing lvl 4 missions threads per month.
Afraid so. Bare in mind we are hitting a new week so another thread on the subject was due anyway |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2572
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 19:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Em arr Roids wrote:Nice job to the guy who did the spread sheet. Now we just need someone to spend 24 hours in total running nullsec plexes, data and relic sites and see how that actually compares. there's a lot to compare. investment, time, effort, risk, ease, alts, player numbers, sustainability, scalability |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
4002
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 19:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
Null is too broad a question. Go to Providence and you will be dirt poor. Join Goons and get filthy rich. You can probably find a recruiter around here somewhere. See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3003
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 20:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:Go to Providence and you will be dirt poor. Join Goons and get filthy rich. What's the big difference? Do goons get special missions or PvE? Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1750
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 20:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
Agondray wrote:Null is where I made the most isk for all of the cap ship skills I have. But that also took a while between neuts camping and alliance being a kb ****, being attacked by blues, cta to goon space every day to look tough etc. most of the time I go to null it's to run the market which I end up not doing because if ctas, which is why null secors say they make so little and they have alts in empire to grind missions. Pretty much this. You can literally make billions a day with a couple of hours of play. You need to NOT be in a blobalition or a blobliance though because of the social / military overheads that come with that.
Make a scout, grab an alt or make one, to fly a tengu or Ishtar, then roam around doing combat sites, ghost sites and get rich.
Additionally the main reason imo, that the blobliance people are in high sec on alts doing missions is to avoid having to CTA rather than that the income is better. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
864
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 20:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:I
Independent mining with a new character, or "ninja-mining" in hostile space Mining with a fully-skilled character and support fleet (boosts etc) Belt ratting with a meta BC setup; belt ratting with a maxed out BS setup Anomalies (different incomes from different anomalies); are sanctums still everyone's favorite? Data/Relic site exploration? Combat site exploration? How common are escalations and finding extremely valuable loot? Industry? Shipping in stuff vs. local manufacturing? \\
~Mining I dunno, no one mines ores, ICE is another matter but a lot of that goes down the rabbit hole to fuel POSs ~ The guys doing that are running a TON of accounts with rorqual support and whatnot, they have billion in hardware just to get going ~belt ratting is crap, ~Anoms 13-15 with a HAC or T3, 22-30 with a pimped pirate hull or carrier ~data and relics are all over the map depends on how many you find and whats in them, I've made 400mil in a couple hours and I've made 15 min an hour ~combat explorating same, PLUS the added aggravation of chasing excalations over literally three regions ~local manufacturing = super caps, and that is about it. There are slots if you are building a hull or making ammo, but the nature of player built stations is that they producing in bult is pretty inefficient, before you factor in thousands of
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Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1706
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 21:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:I lived in nullsec a few years ago, so I have some idea on what there is to be done out there, but it never seemed to me to be a huge golden cash-cow. Since I'm not about to abandon my current activities to go check it out myself, I would like to ask you, GD, to give me some figures. Note: I don't care how much money an alliance or coalition makes from renting, moon mining, or other such activities. This is a question about personal income of average nullsec residents at varying skill levels. Some examples:
- Independent mining with a new character, or "ninja-mining" in hostile space
- Mining with a fully-skilled character and support fleet (boosts etc)
- Belt ratting with a meta BC setup; belt ratting with a maxed out BS setup
- Anomalies (different incomes from different anomalies); are sanctums still everyone's favorite?
- Data/Relic site exploration?
- Combat site exploration? How common are escalations and finding extremely valuable loot?
- Industry? Shipping in stuff vs. local manufacturing?
There are probably some things I've missed. I think there's a lot of misinformation (disinformation?) around what those evil mean nullseccers get by puppeteering CCP, so let's set it straight.
Petrus,
During one of the Nerf HighSec threads, La Nariz, Stoicfaux, and I did some studies and documented our results. The link below is the data obtained by La Nariz doing Anoms in one of the CFCs systems. I hope this helps with your question.
La Nariz's Data.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3003
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 22:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
What is with you people. I am not asking to nerf hisec. If you must know, I was looking to compare it to FW incomes to determine how big the gap is and in what direction it goes at various skill levels. Paranoid people chestbeating about nerfing hisec/nullsec is the cancer that's killing the Eve-O forums. Way to go. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Fatal Amelana
Viziam Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 22:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
Independent mining with a new character, or "ninja-mining" in hostile space -> 20-35mil/Hr Mining with a fully-skilled character and support fleet (boosts etc) -> 45mil/hr Belt ratting with a meta BC setup; belt ratting with a maxed out BS setup -> 12-15 per ticket x3 Anomalies (different incomes from different anomalies); are sanctums still everyone's favorite? 60-300m/hr Data/Relic site exploration? 40-50m/Hr Combat site exploration? How common are escalations and finding extremely valuable loot? 1-2 Per day 1-2b Per day Industry? Shipping in stuff vs. local manufacturing? Same as highsec.
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Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1706
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 22:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:What is with you people. I am not asking to nerf hisec. If you must know, I was looking to compare it to FW incomes to determine how big the gap is and in what direction it goes at various skill levels. Paranoid people chestbeating about nerfing hisec/nullsec is the cancer that's killing the Eve-O forums. Way to go.
I was not suggesting that at all. I simply provided that data and gave context to where it originated. I'm paranoid because space is dangerous and it's good to be paranoid.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
369
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 22:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:~stuff~ Thanks, dude! That's exactly what I was looking for. Sounds like the biggest, easiest income is from relic sites. How's their spawn rate? Random. As for the likes of anoms, you are better off in high sec blitzing level 4s. PI is better than everywhere else but mining isn't too hot unless you go for ice, keep your eye on that one. The stockpiles are starting to run out and there is only one way for it to go.
PI is also in a weird place at the moment.
Most P4s are selling for less than the component P3s.
In fact even if you need the P4s for your own production lines you are better off selling the P3 mats and buying someone elses P4 with the proceeds. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2891
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 22:47:00 -
[29] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:What is with you people. I am not asking to nerf hisec. If you must know, I was looking to compare it to FW incomes to determine how big the gap is and in what direction it goes at various skill levels. Paranoid people chestbeating about nerfing hisec/nullsec is the cancer that's killing the Eve-O forums. Way to go.
FW wins, at pretty much any level of skills for income. As far as I am aware, the FW numbers can be exceeded only by a good C5 or C6 wormhole, and even then it's more or less a group activity that requires capital ships.
FW, one account, one decently skilled bomber, 150-200 million an hour. Easily. 150 is if you don't even bother optimizing your route and/or you have to go hide a lot. You can get to about 230mil/hr if you go in right after downtime. Especially Winmatar, their missions are deucedly easy since their rats only have tracking disruptors for ewar, which doesn't effect stealth bombers at all. (why that hasn't been fixed, I'll never know) Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
124
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 00:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Please, for the sake of all that is good in the world, not another thread about income levels. Can we stop with the propaganda wars for a couple weeks?
CCP has the numbers, so the forum wars are pointless. But if you do want to get into it, consider this: the failed lawyer in his last message to his minions was exhorting every member of goons to get into a Titan, or failing that, a supercap. Guess they don't seem to have a problem with income.
Hey! Hate to interrupt your tinfoil ramblings but I'd like to add a little context to this.
As a rider to Mitten's call to get people into supers/titans to try to hold and increase the advantage over other coalitions in EVE, some information was posted as to how you can make money as an EVE player. Shock and horror, of all the suggested ways of going about it, only 2 were nullsec specific;
ratting and running moongoo reactions.
All the others were lowsec or hisec alt strategies.
edit: oops, I forgot exploration and the (very niche) capital ship industry. |
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