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Katas Strophe
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 15:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mining ice in high security zone is difficult for an honest player who does not use a bot to mine.
For example, I use 2 mining barges and I have trouble to mine the amount of ice required to power a small POS ! . If I compare with the old system of mining ice, I need to mine much more often for the same amount and it prevents me from doing anything else that would be more interesting than mining.
Below is a list for improvement for mining ice :
Note : Sorry for my English language....
1. Keep incomplete mining cycle When the asteroid is entirely consumed, keep the portion of the cycle is not completed to continue the unfinished cycle on another asteroid. OR Another solution would be to not allow a barge to start a cycle if it is not able to finish. This is required because it is really unpleasant for the player losing cycles mining. Moreover, this enhancement will also prevent the "wild mining" (Example: 15 barges on the same stone!)
2. Alarm on mining barges Add an alarm on barges to warn the miner that a vessel having a bad standing is in the system. The player may configure this alarm according to the standing of the character, or the corporation or the alliance. This is necessary because the mining in EVE is soporific and you just need little moment of inattention to lose his ship. - The configuration of this alarm is persistent and the player can adjust at any time. - This alarm will only be available on mining barges. - The default value of this alarm is off. So a player who legally mine (without using bot) will have an extra chance to protect her ship against troublemakers (Ganker).
3. Increase the amount of asteroid and spread it over a greater distance This is necessary to ensure that all players can have a chance to mine ice. The ice asteroid fields do not last long enough. An average asteroid fields will depleted about 1 to 1.5 hour. This improvement will allow those who are not make "wild mining" to move away from big players who are more than 4 barges. This will give more time to mine the ice.
4. Establish a system of concession for ice asteroid Required to prevent the "wild mining" made by some players who use a Bot. (example 12 barges on the same asteroid!!!). - Limited to 4, the number of mining barges that can mine an asteroid simultaneously. - When the player leaves the asteroid to go unload its cargo of ice, the concession on asteroid will remain active for 5 minutes. This time will allow the player to return to the asteroid. After this time 5 minutes, the player receives a message asking him to renew his concession.This message will appear only once and will stretch the time (another 5 minutes) to allocate to return to the asteroid. - If a player leaves the game, the concession is automatically removed. - The waypoint of asteroid concession automatically appears in the fly menu (right clic mouse button). This allows to jump directly to the asteroid concession.
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masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1440
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 15:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
I don't think EVE supports fractions of an item. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Katas Strophe
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 15:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:I don't think EVE supports fractions of an item.
1. Keep incomplete mining cycle. Maybe the other solution is better : Another solution would be to not allow a barge to start a cycle if it is not able to finish. |
Alberik
Eusebius Corporation
37
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 17:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=104337
if the calculation is right you shouldnt mine for more than 1 hour per week with each account. that should not really be a problem even if icemining is boring as hell |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
279
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 17:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
I can see how the new system has affected high traffic areas of highsec but overall i like the new system. It's kind of reached that equilibrium point and i would be hesitant to mess with it. |
Your Dad Naked
State War Academy Caldari State
138
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 18:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rowells wrote:I can see how the new system has affected high traffic areas of highsec but overall i like the new system. It's kind of reached that equilibrium point and i would be hesitant to mess with it. Go check the prices for White Glaze and related products. That is not equilibrium.
I really don't agree with the OP overall, however I do believe he is correct about this. Caldari Control Towers are significantly more popular and the spawn amounts for White Glaze need to reflect that.
OP: As for your problem with the 12 mining barge fleets... fight back. I won't give suggestion (as they could be used against me :D) but think creatively and you'll find a way no matter what setup they have. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2218
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 18:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Your Dad Naked wrote:Rowells wrote:I can see how the new system has affected high traffic areas of highsec but overall i like the new system. It's kind of reached that equilibrium point and i would be hesitant to mess with it. Go check the prices for White Glaze and related products. That is not equilibrium. I really don't agree with the OP overall, however I do believe he is correct about this. Caldari Control Towers are significantly more popular and the spawn amounts for White Glaze need to reflect that. OP: As for your problem with the 12 mining barge fleets... fight back. I won't give suggestion (as they could be used against me :D) but think creatively and you'll find a way no matter what setup they have. Caldari Control Towers are the most popular because White Glaze is found in Caldari space, which is also where Jita is. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
287
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 18:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Your Dad Naked wrote:[quote=Rowells]I can see how the new system has affected high traffic areas of highsec but overall i like the new system. It's kind of reached that equilibrium point and i would be hesitant to mess with it. Go check the prices for White Glaze and related products. That is not equilibrium. I really don't agree with the OP overall, however I do believe he is correct about this. Caldari Control Towers are significantly more popular and the spawn amounts for White Glaze need to reflect that. /quote] Caldari Control Towers are the most popular because White Glaze is found in Caldari space, which is also where Jita is.
Actually Caldari is the most popular because A: Most CPU for running highsec labs and B: Highsec towers covered in ECM are a massive pain in the ass to take down with subcaps.
Also, just because caldari is more poplar does not mean it's CCP 's job to spawn more ice to bring the cost down. There's this thing called supply and demand. There is a limited supply, and a lot of demand. So prices go up. Sounds like the market working perfectly to me.
As for the rest of the OP's ideas.... no. It's not CCP's job to make sure that one person can compete on an equal level with a massive multiboxer. Also just because someone is ice mining with many chars at once does not mean they are a bot. It's quite common in Ice mining because the time to deplete an asteroid is long enough that it makes semi-AFK mining much easier. |
Eleanor Malle
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 11:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:[quote=Omnathious Deninard][quote=Your Dad Naked][quote=Rowells]I ........
As for the rest of the OP's ideas.... no. It's not CCP's job to make sure that one person can compete on an equal level with a massive multiboxer. Also just because someone is ice mining with many chars at once does not mean they are a bot. It's quite common in Ice mining because the time to deplete an asteroid is long enough that it makes semi-AFK mining much easier.
First, I know the difference between a bot and a human. The behaviors are not the same.
Secondly, if I would use a Bot I could configure it so that my ships can automatically leave the mining area when a player with a bad standing come in the system. So, CCP should give me similar tools (Example Audible alarm to advise me when a ass ..... come in the system for make trouble).
Third, a concession system (see first post for details) greatly help small players and would balance things a little more (small vs multiboxer).
Fourth, do not allow a barge to mine if it is not able to complete the cycle would avoid many unpleasant (especially when there is almost no asteroid and all miners mine the same).
In conclusion, for me CCP must organize so that ALL types of players will find their account. |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
268
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 11:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
I do habe a completly different Problem, i cant stand the fact that only 2-4 Barges are needed to run POSes anyway, a POS should be a thing for good Corps, i rather suggsest to reduce the fuel need from small POS instead while increase large POS fuel costs.
And because you can buy that stuff anyway neither miner nor other professions would be treated unfair. |
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Katas Strophe
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 12:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
I think it was not a good idea to put several proposals for improvement in the same post.
I will create a post for each of the proposals in order to have a good feed back on each of the proposed improvements.
Sorry for the inconvenience. I do not post often.
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Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
293
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 18:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Katas Strophe wrote:I think it was not a good idea to put several proposals for improvement in the same post. I will create a post for each of the proposals in order to have a good feed back on each of the proposed improvements. Sorry for the inconvenience. I do not post often.
Please don't. Getting mixed or negative feedback on your ideas is not a reason to go spam the forums with three more threads all of which are going to get the same treatment.
Let's lay a few things out.
A: Not allow a barge to start a cycle if it is not able to finish: CCP gave miners the survey scanner module, which permits them to scan asteroids or ice blocks in order to know how much ice or ore is left in them. They already gave you the tools needed to make sure you don't start a cycle on an asteroid ore ice chunk that someone else is going to mine out first. It's certainly not their problem if you don't use one and sometimes lose out on a cycle because someone finished an asteroid first.
B: Audible alarm on mining barges: No. This was already created in the past, a goonfleet created tool called BACON, that could be programed to make different noises depending on the standings of people who entered system. When CCP found out about it, they banned a lot of people and changed the rules to prevent tools from using similar cache scraping techniques. CCP believes it provides far too much intel for far too little effort, and have stated that this feature will not be included in the game.
C: Increase the amount of asteroid and spread it over a greater distance: Does nothing. Mass multiboxers with many characters and mining boosts will far outperform a solo miner regardless of if the asteroids were 0m or 100km apart. They will in fact gain efficiency over solo miners because with the 50% mining laser range from boosts, they have less distance to travel than a solo miner.
D: Establish a system of concession for ice asteroid: As I said before, this is not viewed as a problem in EVE by CCP. Bringing friends or more accounts along has always been intended to provide a benefit over solo play. There are no other "solo player protection" systems in the game, and that's because CCP always intended this game to be a co-operative game. If people are mining out asteroids faster than you, the solution is not to whine to CCP to let you have your own little chunk of ice, it's to bring your own friends or alts, gank them or hire someone else to wardec or gank them for you, move somewhere else where there is less competition, or just deal with it. |
Dave Stark
4461
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 20:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
I seem to have failed to find the part where you explain what problem you're trying to fix? |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
252
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 20:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:I seem to have failed to find the part where you explain what problem you're trying to fix?
She is trying hard to not say she wants to go back to august 2013.
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Dave Stark
4461
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 20:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Bertrand Butler wrote:Dave Stark wrote:I seem to have failed to find the part where you explain what problem you're trying to fix? She is trying hard to not say she wants to go back to august 2013.
ah yes, the month i mined 15k of isotopes and then went "**** this ****, i'm never mining again" and purchased a machariel and decided to impose myself on anyone stupid enough to invite me to a fleet when i X up in their incursion communities.
that's what happens when you own 3 accounts, don't have a job, and want to test the limits of how much torture you can impose upon yourself. |
Rosira
Warframe Industry And Salvage
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 11:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
While I no longer have a requirement to mine ice I have done a fair bit over time and I'd have say a resounding No to all of these. They are not improvements, they are a player wanting end result with as little effort as required.
The first 2 you just want CCP to hold your hand when the tools you need are already given but you are to lazy to utilize. More chunks would nice but its good balance as it is for the least risky (and least valuable) ice.
Having been in a Alliance that was always in need of blocks we dominated the local belts for a time and the last option would make our fleets been a lot less effective. There are other things that can be done to stop botting and one that neuters a coordinated fleet is not one of them.
If you want to compete with a larger group in a belt you need to organize on that larger level or just accept the amount you can get.
That alliance at the time was quite small but dedicated to achieving its goals and the ice fleets were a thing of beauty, then it got a chance at lowsec ice and didn't look back
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2961
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 11:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Step 1. Stop mining ice.
Step 2. Do literally almost anything else for money.
Step 3. Buy POS fuel with the proceeds.
Step 4. Profit. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
263
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 12:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ummm...if everybody stopped mining ice and did literally almost anything else...where would the POS fuel you want to buy come from?
I agree with Rosira...the balance seems about right at the moment. the lone miner will take what they can get, but then has the freedom to take what they want where they can find it. The fleet gets the benefit of being such, but then must be in the fleet when and where the FC decides. |
Alyth Nerun
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER CODE.
99
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 12:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Another miner who thinks he is entitled to mine free AFK highsec ice in complete safety as much isolated as possible from competition.
CCP worked hard for the last 10 years to remove almost all the risk to highsec mining and to reduce the effort to one push of a button per hour. And you still demand more safety, more AFK and more isolation? How about we improve the parts of the game where people actually play the game? |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
276
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 12:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
I do have a Question, is is ICE mining in Low/Null/WH different then mining ice in Highsec? (More yield, stronger rats, more ice)? |
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Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
177
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 13:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Katas Strophe wrote:1. Keep incomplete mining cycleWhen the asteroid is entirely consumed, keep the portion of the cycle is not completed to continue the unfinished cycle on another asteroid. OR Another solution would be to not allow a barge to start a cycle if it is not able to finish. This is required because it is really unpleasant for the player losing cycles mining. Moreover, this enhancement will also prevent the "wild mining" (Example: 15 barges on the same stone !) 2. Audible alarm on mining bargesAdd an audible alert on barges to warn the miner that a vessel having a bad standing is in the system. The player may configure this alarm according to the standing of the character, or the corporation or the alliance. This is necessary because the mining in EVE is soporific and you just need little moment of inattention to lose his ship. - The configuration of this alarm is persistent and the player can adjust at any time. - This alarm will only be available on mining barges. - The default value of this audible alert is Off. So, with this new tool, a player who legally mine (without using bot) will have an extra chance to protect her ship against troublemakers (Ganker). 3. Increase the amount of asteroid and spread it over a greater distanceThis is necessary to ensure that all players can have a chance to mine ice. The ice asteroid fields do not last long enough. An average asteroid fields will depleted about 1 to 1.5 hour. This improvement will allow those who are not make "wild mining" to move away from big players who are more than 4 barges. This will give more time to mine the ice. 4. Establish a system of concession for ice asteroidRequired to prevent the "wild mining" made by some players who use a Bot. (example 12 barges on the same asteroid!!!). - Limited to 4, the number of mining barges that can mine an asteroid simultaneously. - When the player leaves the asteroid to go unload its cargo of ice, the concession on asteroid will remain active for 5 minutes. This time will allow the player to return to the asteroid. After this time 5 minutes, the player receives a message asking him to renew his concession.This message will appear only once and will stretch the time (another 5 minutes) to allocate to return to the asteroid. - If a player leaves the game, the concession is automatically removed. - The waypoint of asteroid concession automatically appears in the fly menu (right clic mouse button). This allows to jump directly to the asteroid concession.
1. So if I'm getting full orca boosts and you arn't, you start your cycle before I start mine and theres only 1 block left. However since I have better cycle time then you it stops your cycle and lets me mine it?
2. Why do you need an audible alarm? So you can be tabbed out while doing other things while you mine?
3. Yes, increase the distance and people can create warp points with a ceptor which will allow them to hop around the ice field at will.
4. So the person with 12 mining barges will simply lock you out from mining 3 of the roids at any given time. When an ice belt gets low and they can't mine they will log their suicide gank alts, and remove the issue that is causing them not to mine. Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012. |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
777
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 14:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:I do have a Question, is is ICE mining in Low/Null/WH different then mining ice in Highsec? (More yield, stronger rats, more ice)?
i don't think wh's have ice....i could be wrong. low sec belts have more ice and better types. null more ice better type. there is a null system near where i live with 3 huge caldari ice belts. it gets little traffic and it is rare for even one of them to get mined out. It is 2 jumps from an npc null station though so getting there and back might be tricky. we have done corp ops in the past to mine ice belts using full rorq boosts and half a dozen people. It takes all day to mine out the damn ice belt. These ops are very rare as we all get mysteriously dc'd and are unable to log in again until ice op is over. Anyway just check dotlan. find a ice system in npc null near a station. stick up a tower in the ice belt system as a safe spot and mine away. there are plenty of belts in systems that no one uses either for travel or mining. You will need a combat ship in your POS to kill the rats though and going afk will be a death sentence. As long as you don't annoy people and the moon you anchor your tower on is worthless no one will bother you except with sudden interceptor rush to try and tackle you or ambush on route back to station. loadups + cloaky hauler will solve 99% of these. black frog will move your ships down there for you and the ice back. or join a null corp and most likely they will move stuff for you or even buy your ice at above Jita prices. Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
284
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 17:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:I do have a Question, is is ICE mining in Low/Null/WH different then mining ice in Highsec? (More yield, stronger rats, more ice)? Yes. It's much better. As mentioned above there are different types of ice available. The rarest, Dark glitter can only be found there, among others. And your typical white glaze or racial ice becomes pristine white glaze or another improved version. For example mining glitter is more profitable than mining arknor and almost as profitable as mining mercoxit. |
Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
178
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 04:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
Silvetica Dian wrote: i don't think wh's have ice....i could be wrong.
This is correct Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012. |
Michael Ignis Archangel
NovaTech Academy Against ALL Anomalies
30
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 05:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
Your Dad Naked wrote:[quote=Rowells] Caldari Control Towers are significantly more popular and the spawn amounts for White Glaze need to reflect that. .
I've honestly not read much of this thread, but I wanted to take a moment to express my displeasure with the attitude implied by this statement. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1005
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 05:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
I think your inability to mine ice is not so much the problem as is this prevailing notion that everybody has to own their own POS. Those should be run by multiple people, or entire corporations. If you want to run one all by yourself, then don't complain when it gets difficult.
I'm all for more anchorable structures for solo pilots, but the ones with the big reinforce shield you can hide in should not be one of them. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1006
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 06:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Katas Strophe wrote:2. Audible alarm on mining barges I thought of something like this. My idea was substantially more limited, and I think that's important. But here goes:
The alarm takes a high slot - both so it doesn't nerf tank and because it clashes roles with cloaking devices.
It scans a certain radius around the ship: a scanning beam points out like a radar dish and scans in a full circle around the ship over the course of several seconds. It can be calibrated to alert for any specific overview item--when it sees that it rings an audible alarm. The scanning beam is also visible, however, so a ship can approach beyond its range right after it goes by, increasing the time in which to be able to attack.
Small Alarm Scan radius: 60km Scan duration: 10s 1MW // 25tf
Medium Alarm Scan radius: 120km Scan duration: 20s 12MW // 35tf
Large Alarm Scan radius: 240km Scan duration: 40s 150MW // 45tf Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
264
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 11:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
Or just watch your ship and accept the risk of going afk. I'm pretty sure that there isn't an audible alarm for a reason, that being to make you vulnerable if you don't pay attention. As somebody else pointed out there used to be an app that provided this (or something similar) but it was specifically blocked by CCP, hence my belief that they are happy with the current afk random punishment system |
Katas Strophe
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 13:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
Hello,
Audible alarm For alarm I understand that it might help those who mine AFK and it is not the purpose of CCP. There are the fact remains I need to quickly see if an enemy is in the system when I do my maneuvers with my barge (example move, align, transfer, etc...), because It was in this moment is that I am the most vulnerable.
So I created another request to improvement for the list of Pilots in Local chat window. This improvement in local chat would make the job for me and would not benefit those who are AFK. Moreover, it has the advantage of clearing the playing surface and we have a better visibility.
see https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=327172&find=unread |
Bohneik Itohn
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 15:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
Your solution already exists, I'm afraid....
There are TONS of high sec players who would love to run around ganking multiboxing miners and botters, hunting down Orcas and being an overall terrorist to people who basically abuse a system put in place to encourage the type of gameplay they enjoy: Cooperative synergy.
Make an Alliance, recruit them in a branch corporation, and 50 mil will make your problems with multiboxers disappear. Just call the guys in whenever you see them in the same field as you.
I'm serious. I play with a lot of part-time PvPers, mission runners, industry players and noobs. A lot of them are salivating for the chance to war dec a botting miner corporation because they detest the idea of multiboxing for something so mind-numbingly droll as mining.
They will solve your problem for you, and the best part about it is that after they start to make a profit from the first few war decs, they'll do it for free.
Put some of these mission runners to use doing some honest work. |
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