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sucidaldeathtar
30plus Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
0
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Posted - 2014.03.04 21:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
First off just saying I took a 3 yr break from eve so some changes I might not know about. That being said with the changes to exhumers which I can understand but in a fleet by the numbers Machs would still be better.
What I mean say you have 3 hulks mining and 1 person in a Indy for transporting ore and 1 person boosting. By the amounts they gave in a dev blog it would be better flying 4 Machs then 3 hulks and a Indy. Reason I say this is cause even if you calculate the time to go back to station to drop your ore and come back(I figured 5 mins) you still have mined more then 3 hulks in a hr.
Ruff numbers I got was:
3 hulks 61xxx m3 4 Mach 64xxx m3 including 5 mins flying back and forth
If hulks are ment to be used in fleets I think they need to boost the mining amount of hulks.
Or am I missing something? |
Shoogie
Serious Pixels
66
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Posted - 2014.03.04 23:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
*Imagines a fleet of Machariels in a belt with mining lasers. Awesome.*
CCP has done a pretty good job of making a number of old useless ships actually useful with their teiricide effort.
Remember in the old days, nobody would ever use a Procurer because it could only fit one strip miner, and by the time you could fly it, you were hours away from flying a Retriever with two strip miners? Nobody would fly a Coveter with three strip miners, because by the time you had the skills to fly it, you were hours away from flying a Hulk with a much better tank?
Today all the mining barges have close to the same yield, so all of them can be useful. The Procurer and Skiff have the best tanks. Use them when you worry about being attacked, and you can still get a decent amount of ore. The Retriever and Mackinaw have the largest cargoholds. Use them when you are alone, and need to dock up each time your cargo hold fills. The Coveter and Hulk have the highest yield, but only by a few percent so that the other ships are situationally valid choices. Use these in larger fleet operations.
I don't know where you got your yield numbers, or the guess that the Mackinaw will spend 5 minutes an hour docking and unloading rather than mining, but using your own numbers look when you add one more person to your fleet:
4 Hulks and a dedicated hauler: 81.3k m3 5 Macks: 80k m3
And it goes up from there. The more people you have, the better Hulks are in comparison. (And the more juicy target you become for gankers.)
TL:DR Why should Hulks always be the best choice? Why shouldn't miners have a variety of ships to choose from depending on the situation? |
sucidaldeathtar
30plus Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
0
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Posted - 2014.03.05 00:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
They should be the best for mining in a fleet anyway but as above it does turn in favor as the number of hulks increase. So ya my bad on that one |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2748
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Posted - 2014.03.05 01:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
sucidaldeathtar wrote:They should be the best for mining in a fleet anyway but as above it does turn in favor as the number of hulks increase. So ya my bad on that one
With the changes to industrials, you no longer would do the 2x orca option either. 1 orca, 1 miasmos for hauling. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
twit brent
Black Anvil Industries LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
3
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Posted - 2014.03.05 17:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
sucidaldeathtar wrote:First off just saying I took a 3 yr break from eve so some changes I might not know about. That being said with the changes to exhumers which I can understand but in a fleet by the numbers Machs would still be better.
What I mean say you have 3 hulks mining and 1 person in a Indy for transporting ore and 1 person boosting. By the amounts they gave in a dev blog it would be better flying 4 Machs then 3 hulks and a Indy. Reason I say this is cause even if you calculate the time to go back to station to drop your ore and come back(I figured 5 mins) you still have mined more then 3 hulks in a hr.
Ruff numbers I got was:
3 hulks 61xxx m3 4 Mach 64xxx m3 including 5 mins flying back and forth
If hulks are ment to be used in fleets I think they need to boost the mining amount of hulks.
Or am I missing something?
3 macks flying to station and back is 20 minutes lost mining. Then consider that it can fill its hold in under 20 minutes. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3240
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Posted - 2014.03.06 02:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:With the changes to industrials, you no longer would do the 2x orca option either. 1 orca, 1 miasmos for hauling. Actually the cool kids use a freighter and a MTU to haul. |
Cuddle Monster
Schwarzschild Casimir Collective
11
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Posted - 2014.03.07 23:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
If you are worried about gankers your only option should be a Skiff for exhumers, the barges are all cheap enough that if you get ganked it probably won't matter unless you are getting constantly harassed. That is unless you have a juicy pod then I would stick with Skiff or Procurer. No matter which way you cut it though if you **** someone off prepare to get exploded. |
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
436
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Posted - 2014.03.10 20:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
All level 5 with no boosts or links:
[Hulk, New Setup 1] Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II
[empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot]
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Yield: 1547
[Mackinaw, New Setup 2] Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II
[empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot]
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Yield: 1339
With implant and max orca links:
Hulk: 2548
Mack: 2205
That said, I won't use anything but a Skiff, though I do have an alt to haul for me. I would only use a hulk with a dedicated fleet, including guards. Which doesn't happen that often, given how boring it is. The hulk is better by the numbers, even without factoring in travel time, but its not enough to justify the micromanagement and non-existent defense. CCP should have given the mack and skiff 2 effective turrets instead of 3, imo. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3253
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 23:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dorian Wylde wrote:All level 5 with no boosts or links:
[Hulk, New Setup 1] Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II
[Mackinaw, New Setup 2] Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II ... and people wonder why they get targeted by gankers.
If you are gonna shove a MLU II in every low-slot, you are best off using a cheap barge and not an exhumer. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
23
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Posted - 2014.03.11 07:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
and 4 empty mids on a hulk is 4 mods that could have saved your ship, made you slightly less attractive to gankers etc. Ditto the 3 on the mack. Dropping one for a DC2 when running a fleet is just sense if you don't have some other ship to handle gank attempts, and reduces the margin they win the isk war by significantly. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
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Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2233
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Posted - 2014.03.12 23:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Investing in a mining permit is also a good idea to reduce ganking... accidents. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=318489 - Proposal for a new type of tech 2 Destroyer If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
Dearthair
Black Research Industries
6
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Posted - 2014.03.15 03:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
I really prefer the skiff for mining. 56k or so EHP goes a long way towards making me feel better about the lower yield. Also, if you are actually mining with a survey scanner and stopping laser cycles early to not waste cycles, it is much easier to track 1 strip than 2 or 3. I'm willing to bet that when I am "active" mining, I mine more than most if not all hulks that just mine until the rock pops. NBLID (Not Blue Let It Die), the new motto for miners, manufacturers, and retailers everywhere. |
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