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Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
18
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Posted - 2014.03.06 18:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
1st, I made a Blockade Runner 2nd a cyno alt which I never used. 3rd a bomber. 4th a Covert Ops. 5th a Force Recon ship. and now that I think of it, I will make a Black Ops.
It is better than a BH BC ship or command ship, since they cannot Jump to Covert Cynos.
That will allow me to jump the other Covert ships. These include 1. Bomber for extra DPS, 2. BR (as JF), plus 3. Covert Ops for Exploration.
The cyno alt has a Clone grade Gamma which can be 65k per cyno.
It is what I needed to improve my solo play and better than a BS for that.
(more on that to come. Of course, I could post a Crime & Punishment version related to actual PvP and related Psych War.) |
Batelle
HOMELE55
2123
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Posted - 2014.03.06 18:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
cool story bro "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Gimme more Cynos
Du nervst geh sterben
145
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Posted - 2014.03.06 18:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
this is like:
hum.. erm.. wtf? |
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
18
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Posted - 2014.03.06 18:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
The reasoning behind this is that I may loose income or profit by doing this. And this, even though it would be the most profitable to me.
At least, I would know by how much by keeping an exact tab on my costs and income to compare profits.
It could be better than the Character Bazaar for me if I do actually make over 100% profit including external costs. I guess it may be over 100% profit at certain times, or depending on specific conditions. I may even win PvP battles with that fleet for added loot potential and additional profit.
My first highest major profit were from loot in low sec which I ninja looted. That was worth to over 500m fairly easily. |
Qalix
Long Jump.
146
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Posted - 2014.03.06 19:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
We can't figure out what you're talking about. There's stuff and words, but you're short on points and purpose. |
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 19:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Qalix wrote:We can't figure out what you're talking about. There's stuff and words, but you're short on points and purpose. I simply meant that the Black Ops ships would help to PvE.
That Black Ops ships would help to PvE whether it is in Null-sec or other.
The added business calculation is just related to the exact ratio at which it would help.
That is to say, compared to PvE ratting in a BC or perhaps even a Carrier or above. Sure the DPS would be higher, but so would be the costs and the protection costs. That also take into account that Carrier can jump, but not to Covert Cynos making them more vulnerable.
The Covert Cynos are the most secret way to actually do the PvE and the less likely to fall prey to PvP.
Edit: Anyways, I can see where you're trying to bring the thread to (and I won't fall prey to it. This is PvE). This will be my last post until I get a new Black Ops Pilot. I will probably buy a 3 to 6 months account to train it (it may work in 3 months). Otherwise I would buy one from the Character Bazaar. |
Leto Thule
Sons of Retribution
496
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 19:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Covert cyno action with support fleet for ratting.
Wow. Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/ |
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 20:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Covert cyno action with support fleet for ratting.
Wow. yeah ty, and hey, I sent you an important EVE mail, please reply to me unless you prefer to deal with an Alt.
The reason is that I will be able to jump back to station while avoiding Bubbles.
I lost a mining barge like that, and a cane.
Our Null sec is infested with enemies and even the Covert Fleet would have a hard time to deal with it.
We were hot dropped by Titans lately to make matters worst.
I never had a carrier or Dread yet either. |
Qalix
Long Jump.
146
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 20:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Relevant: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=323913&find=unread |
Leto Thule
Sons of Retribution
496
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 20:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Yes, I received your mail. You must, however, pay me a consultation fee of 900m isk to perform any required action on your part.
Also, your attention is needed here. Please read the thread and comment as only you can. I would like this done asap.
The community is waiting. Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/ |
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Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 21:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
Can T3 be used for Covert Jumps? Or with Black Ops?
I read that they can load a Covert Cyno although that it may not allow them to jump through. I'd probably use a Covert Ops ship to light the cyno, or whichever is the least costly to minimize losses.
I made an error stating about my Cyno Alt. There may be 1 or a few days left to complete Cyno Field Theory V... It still wouldn't be able to fly the required ship to equip the device.
It would further increase my learning time however.
Tengu or T3 would definitely be one of the last ship I would use due to their cost. It would also be easier for me to buy it on the Character Bazaar.
- - -
Leto Thule wrote:Yes, I received your mail. You must, however, pay me a consultation fee of 900m isk to perform any required action on your part. Of course you understand that for that price I will need to contract more business agreement than 15m worth. That is 900 times more than 1m or, 60 times more than 15m...
Maybe you guys want to start a partnership or something?
Leto Thule wrote:Also, your attention is needed here. Please read the thread and comment as only you can. I would like this done asap. The community is waiting. I saw the 4 pages in that thread and I cannot have them printed to read them over tonight. 21:29 I managed to post something @ Leto in it. |
Grainsalt
While in Empire Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
181
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Posted - 2014.03.07 01:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
I use a BO for doing 6/10's in guristas space. True story.
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Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 04:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
Grainsalt wrote:I use a BO for doing 6/10's in guristas space. True story.
I think it should be faster to add a bomber. The BC couldn't do a 5/10 due to poor tank. The Black Ops as the same tank.
The best part is that it can carry a fleet in precarious zones which a BC or command ship can't.
It is easier to scout.
I would probably use my rookie ship scout, then drag the Covert Ops in to launch the Covert Ops cyno. I may switch if the tactic gets targeted to avoid raising suspicious. |
Treborr MintingtonJr
Quantum Reality R n D Spaceship Samurai
189
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 08:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
I love this dude, I was hoping to use a Sin as a way to complete escalations without having to jump through gates which I always get tackled on, most of the ones I get go to waste :-/ |
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 16:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Oiras Isimazu wrote: The Black Ops as the same tank. ... I would probably use my rookie ship scout, then drag the Covert Ops in to launch the Covert Ops cyno. ...
Corrections: 1. The Black Ops has the same tank (as the BC tank)...
2. ... , then drag the Covert Ops in to launch the Covert cyno.
Treborr MintingtonJr wrote:I love this dude, I was hoping to use a Sin as a way to complete escalations without having to jump through gates which I always get tackled on, most of the ones I get go to waste :-/
What do you mean when you wrote , most of the ones you get go to waste?
Do you mean that the Black Ops Sin that you get go to waste?
anyways...
1. Force Recon has an 80% less liquid ozone required bonus for cynos and the reduced time it must hold it. However, the higher cost of the Force Recon doesn't make it the most valuable Covert Cyno ship. It's cost of 120m + for the hull alone is no match for a 20m Bomber or Covert Ops ship. Even the BR is more expensive than those previously mentioned 2.
2. The scout ship is by far the best one to scout zones to Covert Jump. It is not worth lighting a regular cyno with it since it would give away the Covert fleet position. However, it will be good for allowing Carriers and other capital ships to jump in, if not indispensable.
3. Other than that, I should be able to Covert Jump my fleets and prevent most to go to waste. (Of the ones I get.)
4. There could be days I'll find other anomalies like Hack sites, Relics, Gas or more with the Covert Ops ship. I don't have 100% but I think it's possible to have more than 100%, like 120% or more perhaps...
5. Then there will be the salvaging matter for solo play of course. Perhaps the best one for that would be a second Black Ops with 8 high slot. I don't see the point to bring a destroyer with no Covert Jump capability when it is too precarious.
6. I really don't know much about T3s yet and I think they are more expensive then Black Ops ships. I may be wrong on the costs though. I find it harder the way hi, med and lo slots are alloted depending on the chosen subsystems.
7. Although it has a lot more firepower and potential tank, a larger multi-client fleet is more risky. If 7/10 or 8/10 difficulty PvE Cosmic Anomaly can be completed, it'd be at a greater risk of loss. The lag is awful at 3 ships and 4 or 5 is even worst, sometimes over 1 minute. That is even worst than the time delay because then the system doesn't stop to respond to input. It processes the input slower, and delivers the output slower, but it doesn't interfere with their functionment.
It is better to lose the most expensive or costly ship than to lose the whole fleet.
The whole fleet could easily be lost if warped scrambled without enough points to stabilize warp. The Black Ops is 743m. T3 is 138m. Force Recon 153m. BR is 111m. Bomber is 20m. Covert Ops are 22m. (one at 2k.) Rookie ship can be free or under 300-20k. = 1.187 b ISK. 1 Black Ops is 62.5% of total cost.
Those amounts (or figures, if figuratively, it figures) are without equipment, insurance, repaid costs, ammo, etc. It also doesn't include Covert Ops Cloaks.
8. Either way, I'll still trade on the Bazaar before I test the ships to see how much more I would make. I would also know if I make less than on the Bazaar by then as well. I should be able to find some point to compare.
I'd calculate how many days I make more profit and how much more profit I would make if any more. Of course, In the same way, I'd also be able to find if I get less profit. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
223
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 17:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
I thought you said you were planning on biomassing yourself? Something something... money, real life?
Keep up the good work. |
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 17:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:I thought you said you were planning on biomassing yourself? Something something... money, real life?
Keep up the good work. Off topic even if off politic, or partly so... The biomass is for the poster which slot I'd logically need if I'm to buy a Bazaar character.
Something something dark side has nothing to do with Black Ops or Covert Ops.
Just because I can earn profit doesn't mean that I have to use it to buy friends.
Just because I can count my loss to include in my profit to balance probabilities and facts is not necessarily bad.
The solo aspect has me less worried about time I must devote to online friendship. I don't have to feel bad about being obligated to do things useless for the greater good of society. At least if it does happen, I can prevent it and correct it faster myself.
In fact, the whole costs of devoting efforts to Covert Fleets is directly related to being targeted. Covert activity relates to principles of plausible deniability which is also political. It is simply applicable to PvE, or paying maybe merc corps to hunt NPCs (+10m for the stolen quote there...). It is not less costly or more cost effective. By the time I make my first billion or 500m from it, it will still have cost me over 6b. |
Qalix
Long Jump.
150
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 17:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Active normal cynos show up on the in game map while they're burning. That means anyone and everyone can see right where you are. They WILL come looking. |
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 18:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Qalix wrote:Active normal cynos show up on the in game map while they're burning. That means anyone and everyone can see right where you are. They WILL come looking. Well, yes, ty, and that is why I need to make sure that I have support to get a carrier on site. There is a no way a carrier would survive to a swarm of over 20 to 50 pilots. It would have a hard time to target them.
It is no use to cyno other ship than Capitals since only they can jump multiple system away to them. To Cyno a Black Ops would give it's position when hiding its position is the whole purpose of using it. The act of denying the enemy, pirate, NPC a target is what makes it so efficient. That is not all the problems but a good part of the problems solved.
Still, I presume the Covert cyno ship must be able to reach that destination safely before calling the Black Ops and fleet.
The only use for Regular Cynos really are for JF, Capital ships like Carrier, Dreadnoughts, SuperCaps like SuperCarrier and Titan. I read Rorqual are in the same condition as capital, and JF can gate jump and cyno.
The whole procedure is just so complicated in itself that it still makes it easier to trade on the Character Bazaar. The Character Bazaar results can then be compared with the ingame results to find the difference.
Just answering this alone took me over 2 days so far. At least I didn't have to pay much for the time this instance.
I switched my training pilot to BS. However, it's better to start a new pilot with 3 to 6 months active time to train Black Ops. Even better than that is to buy one from the Character Bazaar.
I could even buy the boosters for the learning skill bonus at the start but don't have the time. I'm better to leave my current pilot finish training BC instead to have a Command ship. It would have completed without changes if I had let it run without changes.
On top of that, to make matters worst, I also paid in other investments to find info related to this. I might refer to it later but I will leave at that, and unpublished, for now. (I referred to it on the forums before but it is really not important at all for this Black Ops thread.) |
Leto Thule
Sons of Retribution
498
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 23:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
I need an update. Please allow two weeks. Also I need that 900m to perform agreed actions. Send it before you attempt to quintuple box nullsec anoms with BLOPs fleets. Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/ |
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Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1881
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 23:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Oiras Isimazu wrote:The reasoning behind this is that I may loose income or profit by doing this. And this, even though it would be the most profitable to me.
Christ, not this again... "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 00:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac Exotic dancers and free Quafe drinks! |
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 00:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
Plus Blockade Runner doing the Jump Freighter Run of course.
I sure won't wait for that even if I can?!
I save at least 5b from the start. |
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 00:25:00 -
[24] - Quote
It will be good for Miasmos Amatris 139m Quafe Ultra 275m Quafe Ultramarine 1.9b with no covertness , looking like a Viator.!!
on video , if I'm lucky
And taking bets
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Damien White
Sonnenlegion Shadow Cartel
182
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 13:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dafuq is this thread? 97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,
"DO A BARREL ROLL!" |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
834
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 14:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
Damien White wrote:Dafuq is this thread?
its what happens when you feed mindflood to google translate.
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Frank Millar
475
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 15:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
Epic . |
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 17:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
One of the worst problem I have though is the fact that I must fly solo.
Being a Bounty Hunter and looking for Pirates to hunt is not always easy.
Chances of getting trapped in a Covert Ops fleet with a Black Ops are not low. Anything over 2 ships can lag the system to a dead-end meaning the fleet will collapse on itself.
Chances of surviving in a BattleCruiser (BC) at mastery level V are better. The risk of loss of ISK is lower since the value is lower (as well as the cost).
I may try it but , if I don't buy a Black Ops from the Character Bazaar, it may be next year. (If that option is still operational by then.) |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
23285
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 23:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
I like your post. I just wanted to add that any ship that can fit the Covert Ops Cloak can also lock onto the Covert Cyno and use the Black Ops bridge.
Anyway, I had a similar idea a couple years ago which was to create a Covert Exploration Team :
1x Covert Ops Frigate 1x Blockade Runner 2x T3 Cruiser -w- Covert Subsystem 3x Stealth Bomber 2x Force Recon Cruiser 1x Black Ops Battleship
The Covert Ops Frigate would scout ahead and scan for both exploration sites and hostile ships. It would also do hacking when required.
The Blockade Runner would carry the Jump Fuel and Munitions. As the Fuel and Munitions is used up, the cargohold space would be refilled with loot and salvage collected from the sites.
The T3 Cruisers would mainly provide DPS.
The Stealth Bombers would be back up DPS and do surprise hot drops on any hostile ships that show up while the Fleet is running sites.
The Force Recon Cruisers would provide EWAR / Logistics / DPS as well as light the Covert Cyno.
The Black Ops Battleship would provide the Jump Bridge for the Fleet and also help with DPS.
All ships would do site clean up and if a large hostile group shows up in system, the Covert Exploration Team can easily cloak up and wait out the group or just go somewhere else.
Like I said, it's just an idea. Obviously it would be a group effort, not something I would attempt solo. The personal Mobile Structures would probably help a lot.
DMC Faction Standing Repair Plan | California Eve Players | (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions |
Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
42
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 11:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
If your talking about running a black ops 10/10 ninja fleet. You'll need 3 rr tengu, black ops bs, & blockade runner for ammo/fittings/fuel. Use mobile depots {one for each pilot} to refit subsystems. |
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