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Cyrillian Voth
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
1
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Posted - 2014.03.08 15:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
I had a great time at the Valkyrie demo in London last night. Thanks to CCP Duchess and CCP Mashine for chatting about Valkyrie development so far. Now I've had the time to reflect a bit on the experience, I wanted to drop in here with some thoughts.
The scenario of flying straight out of a carrier at the enemy with guns blazing is fun, and works perfectly for a 3-minute demo, but the gameplay will need to be more varied in order to be sustainably interesting. Besides straight-up battles, the game cries out for:
- Games of cat-and-mouse in cluttered environments, e.g. debris fields, ancient wrecks & space structures (some of the sites from EVE would work perfectly for this). Less shooting, more hunting. - Asymmetric combat: evading a more powerful enemy; escort-type missions; one powerful ship against several weaker ones; bombing runs with fighter escort and defenders. - Smaller battles such as 1v1 and 2v2; part of the reason why it's so hard to know when I'm under attack is that there's so much going on in the environment; there's no way I can mentally keep track of six hostiles in 3D space all around me. - Opportunities for more tactical play - e.g. small squads across a more cluttered area, so that it becomes a game of positioning and figuring out where the enemy are, not just shooting and dodging. - Straight-up fancy flying with little or no shooting - space races and space chases. - Real crashes - none of this EVE-style bouncing or flying through things. I can't appreciate fancy flying if there's no danger of screwing up and wrecking myself on the side of an asteroid/larger ship/space structure. - A wider range of ship types (faster, slower, harder-hitting) and fitting options. This could be handled using the computer screen and a mouse - since it's a PC game, there's no need to use a joystick and headset for every part of the experience, and most people will want to take the headset off from time to time anyway.
Obviously the AI is working well enough for single-player to be an option, at least for straight-up fights like this demo. As soon as fights become more tactical (as in some of the scenarios above) it will probably be far more interesting to play against humans - I'd be astonished to see an AI that offered an interesting tactical challenge.
I agree that getting the gameplay right takes priority over developing a strategic "story" for the fights, and that it's a game to be played in short, intense bursts - after a battle I would want to take a short break away from the headset. It would be very un-CCP to create some kind of single-player "campaign" mode, and meaningful integration with EVE should be a post-release project. It will be a challenge to make the intersection interesting for both sides - Valkyrie players will eventually need to know and care about what they're fighting for even if they never play EVE.
Single-player tutorials are a must; most people will want and need to build their confidence and get used to the controls before facing human opponents.
I was interested to hear your thoughts on organising the cockpit instrumentation according to how often it was needed - but obviously, a lot of information can be included in the scene so as to be instantly available without my needing to move my head. I could probably get a lot more from the UI after getting to know the game properly, but here's what I missed:
- a clear sense of how fast I was going (engine noise with varying pitch and dust particles in space would both help); - any idea of what was behind or below me in my blind spot - some kind of in-cockpit screen showing a rear-facing camera view would be great, but front-and-rear radar circles with bracket-type icons might be easier to read; - a clearer indication of when and whether my missiles and guns hit their targets; - an unmistakeable "missile locked" alarm and some means to evade, such as flares or afterburner/MWD; - loud and visible feedback when my ship is damaged/hit - it might work to introduce cockpit-shake (not camera-shake of course); - a very visible damage meter ("every second") so I know instantly how much trouble I'm in; - an instantly readable way to see how heavily damaged enemy ships are, so I can make more informed choices about who to shoot at.
I gather another in-development space combat simulator has a feature where structure damage can lead to the canopy blowing out, offlining the UI so you're flying without instrumentation. That could be breathtakingly awesome and I see no reason not to steal the idea shamelessly.
My new project for this year is to earn enough money to justify spending -ú500 for a new PC + -ú400 for a 780 GTX video card + -ú300 for a Rift. I hope CCP has a very lucrative deal with Oculus... |
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CCP Karuck
C C P C C P Alliance
221
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Posted - 2014.03.09 13:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
All our show demos so far have been exactly that, an experience tailored to get a fun introduction in a very short time. We've only really shown two prototype builds of the game so far.. the Fanfest one (which we also took to E3) and the Gamescom one (which we've been showing lately, with a few updates).
The actual game we're making (which is now in pre-production) will have a lot more depth and does touch on many of the things you mention, so we're looking forward to showing that to you all :)
The other points you make, about being more aware of what is happening etc. are all things we are working hard on getting right. Quite a few of those will be shown to players very soon, so stay tuned! - Senior Programmer on EVE: Valkyrie / @SiggiGG |
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DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
238
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Posted - 2014.03.10 04:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Karuck wrote:All our show demos so far have been exactly that, an experience tailored to get a fun introduction in a very short time. We've only really shown two prototype builds of the game so far.. the Fanfest one (which we also took to E3) and the Gamescom one (which we've been showing lately, with a few updates).
The actual game we're making (which is now in pre-production) will have a lot more depth and does touch on many of the things you mention, so we're looking forward to showing that to you all :)
The other points you make, about being more aware of what is happening etc. are all things we are working hard on getting right. Quite a few of those will be shown to players very soon, so stay tuned!
wait, this has been bugging me all day. pre-production? you mean planning stages? Then i dunno how its coming this year.. unless you ment post-production.... i'm confused lol |
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CCP Karuck
C C P C C P Alliance
222
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Posted - 2014.03.10 09:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:CCP Karuck wrote:All our show demos so far have been exactly that, an experience tailored to get a fun introduction in a very short time. We've only really shown two prototype builds of the game so far.. the Fanfest one (which we also took to E3) and the Gamescom one (which we've been showing lately, with a few updates).
The actual game we're making (which is now in pre-production) will have a lot more depth and does touch on many of the things you mention, so we're looking forward to showing that to you all :)
The other points you make, about being more aware of what is happening etc. are all things we are working hard on getting right. Quite a few of those will be shown to players very soon, so stay tuned! wait, this has been bugging me all day. pre-production? you mean planning stages? Then i dunno how its coming this year.. unless you ment post-production.... i'm confused lol
Hah don't worry, and no this isn't a planning stage :) Our game is a bit unconvential since we've had a working demo since before it became an official game. But you really didn't think that what we've been showing on trade shows is the actual final game did you? ;) Stay tuned, we have some exciting stuff to reveal in the next few months.
- Senior Programmer on EVE: Valkyrie / @SiggiGG |
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Arline Kley
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
271
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Posted - 2014.03.10 14:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
I also hope that there will be joystick support at some later stage - at the London event it was the first time I had an Xbox controller in my hands for about 4 years and I did find it a bit disjointing..
or maybe even a setup to mimic the appearance of the cockpit... Blessed are those that carry the Empress' Light; with it they destroy the shadows |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
241
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Posted - 2014.03.10 15:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP Karuck wrote:DaReaper wrote:CCP Karuck wrote:All our show demos so far have been exactly that, an experience tailored to get a fun introduction in a very short time. We've only really shown two prototype builds of the game so far.. the Fanfest one (which we also took to E3) and the Gamescom one (which we've been showing lately, with a few updates).
The actual game we're making (which is now in pre-production) will have a lot more depth and does touch on many of the things you mention, so we're looking forward to showing that to you all :)
The other points you make, about being more aware of what is happening etc. are all things we are working hard on getting right. Quite a few of those will be shown to players very soon, so stay tuned! wait, this has been bugging me all day. pre-production? you mean planning stages? Then i dunno how its coming this year.. unless you ment post-production.... i'm confused lol Hah don't worry, and no this isn't a planning stage :) Our game is a bit unconvential since we've had a working demo since before it became an official game. But you really didn't think that what we've been showing on trade shows is the actual final game did you? ;) Stay tuned, we have some exciting stuff to reveal in the next few months.
good, I am so chomping at the bit for this and a rift. I want one badly and can't wait. |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
241
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Posted - 2014.03.10 15:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Arline Kley wrote:I also hope that there will be joystick support at some later stage - at the London event it was the first time I had an Xbox controller in my hands for about 4 years and I did find it a bit disjointing.. or maybe even a setup to mimic the appearance of the cockpit...
In theory, as the rift is for a pc, you should be able to use a joy stick... but i'm not a dev so not sure you can. |
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CCP Karuck
C C P C C P Alliance
226
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Posted - 2014.03.10 16:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Arline Kley wrote:I also hope that there will be joystick support at some later stage - at the London event it was the first time I had an Xbox controller in my hands for about 4 years and I did find it a bit disjointing.. or maybe even a setup to mimic the appearance of the cockpit...
There will be joystick support, no worries :) We have quite a few at the office, including the Saitek X-52 HOTAS setup.
- Senior Programmer on EVE: Valkyrie / @SiggiGG |
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Yankunytjatjara
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
106
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Posted - 2014.03.11 07:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Karuck wrote:DaReaper wrote:CCP Karuck wrote:All our show demos so far have been exactly that, an experience tailored to get a fun introduction in a very short time. We've only really shown two prototype builds of the game so far.. the Fanfest one (which we also took to E3) and the Gamescom one (which we've been showing lately, with a few updates).
The actual game we're making (which is now in pre-production) will have a lot more depth and does touch on many of the things you mention, so we're looking forward to showing that to you all :)
The other points you make, about being more aware of what is happening etc. are all things we are working hard on getting right. Quite a few of those will be shown to players very soon, so stay tuned! wait, this has been bugging me all day. pre-production? you mean planning stages? Then i dunno how its coming this year.. unless you ment post-production.... i'm confused lol Hah don't worry, and no this isn't a planning stage :) Our game is a bit unconvential since we've had a working demo since before it became an official game. But you really didn't think that what we've been showing on trade shows is the actual final game did you? ;) Stay tuned, we have some exciting stuff to reveal in the next few months. Sorry if this sounds a bit armchair market strategy but try to pull that out before star citizen's dogfighting demo - they've been procrastinating it enough that you have a chance! My solo pvp video: Yankunytjude... That attitude! Solo/small gang proposal: Ship Velocity Vectors |
Strata Maslav
Born-2-Kill
81
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Posted - 2014.03.11 13:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Yankunytjatjara wrote: Sorry if this sounds a bit armchair market strategy but try to pull that out before star citizen's dogfighting demo - they've been procrastinating it enough that you have a chance!
I'd rather they have a finished product at launch. It seems silly but most people will give many games one chance. If they play the game and its poor then they will write the game off entirely, even its "still in development."
With the Valkyrie partnership with Oculus Rift I don't see a release rushed until the Oculus Rift headset is ready for retail. On that front it looks like they have made some good progress with the optical tracking but with no announced release I don't see Valkyrie being released any time soon.
---
I live in bloody London but went on business when they came over to demo, so sad :( |
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Arden Elenduil
The League of Extraordinary Mentlegen
69
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Posted - 2014.03.12 19:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Let me guess, at fanfest a lot of the new info will be made available right? ;) Thankfully, I'll be there this time around as well to try it out :3
That said, I do hope you'll also support the thrustmaster warthog hotas (+ throttle) |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
243
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Posted - 2014.03.13 20:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yankunytjatjara wrote:CCP Karuck wrote:DaReaper wrote:CCP Karuck wrote:All our show demos so far have been exactly that, an experience tailored to get a fun introduction in a very short time. We've only really shown two prototype builds of the game so far.. the Fanfest one (which we also took to E3) and the Gamescom one (which we've been showing lately, with a few updates).
The actual game we're making (which is now in pre-production) will have a lot more depth and does touch on many of the things you mention, so we're looking forward to showing that to you all :)
The other points you make, about being more aware of what is happening etc. are all things we are working hard on getting right. Quite a few of those will be shown to players very soon, so stay tuned! wait, this has been bugging me all day. pre-production? you mean planning stages? Then i dunno how its coming this year.. unless you ment post-production.... i'm confused lol Hah don't worry, and no this isn't a planning stage :) Our game is a bit unconvential since we've had a working demo since before it became an official game. But you really didn't think that what we've been showing on trade shows is the actual final game did you? ;) Stay tuned, we have some exciting stuff to reveal in the next few months. Sorry if this sounds a bit armchair market strategy but try to pull that out before star citizen's dogfighting demo - they've been procrastinating it enough that you have a chance!
I don't think it will matter tbh. SC dog fighting demo is just that, an alpha state demo. It will not get full release until 2015, so who knows what kind of feature it will have or how well it will actually play. As long as Valkyrie is out as a full working game before 2015, it will beat SC. Besides, I don't get the hype over SC compared to eve its WoW in space. but meh. |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
243
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 20:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
Strata Maslav wrote:Yankunytjatjara wrote: Sorry if this sounds a bit armchair market strategy but try to pull that out before star citizen's dogfighting demo - they've been procrastinating it enough that you have a chance!
I'd rather they have a finished product at launch. It seems silly but most people will give many games one chance. If they play the game and its poor then they will write the game off entirely, even its "still in development." With the Valkyrie partnership with Oculus Rift I don't see a release rushed until the Oculus Rift headset is ready for retail. On that front it looks like they have made some good progress with the optical tracking but with no announced release I don't see Valkyrie being released any time soon. --- I live in bloody London but went on business when they came over to demo, so sad :(
My hope is at fan fest they will be able to announce an official release, which should coincide with an official release for the rift. one can hope =D |
Cyrillian Voth
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
1
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Posted - 2014.03.20 12:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Karuck wrote:All our show demos so far have been exactly that, an experience tailored to get a fun introduction in a very short time. We've only really shown two prototype builds of the game so far.. the Fanfest one (which we also took to E3) and the Gamescom one (which we've been showing lately, with a few updates).
The actual game we're making (which is now in pre-production) will have a lot more depth and does touch on many of the things you mention, so we're looking forward to showing that to you all :)
The other points you make, about being more aware of what is happening etc. are all things we are working hard on getting right. Quite a few of those will be shown to players very soon, so stay tuned!
Thanks for all the info. Hugely looking forward to seeing how it all turns out! My Valkyrie gear fund is off to a healthy start... :-) |
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