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Sibyyl
146
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Posted - 2014.03.10 04:52:00 -
[31] - Quote
MutnantRebel wrote:If we also set up on the moon with, say, 6 month rotations at first we'd learn A LOT about making a barren planet habitable. Not terra forming, but figuring out how to live on such a place. Maybe domes can make an artificial atmosphere eventually. I'm sure that we could set up experiments of this kind on earth itself with zero risk to human lives. I think our interests are myopic. There's more financial investment in the next plastic surgery breakthrough than in colonizing space. Has the biggest leap in this area really been a Pauly Shore movie?
/Fÿ¡
Now that you are *campers* you will have more *parties* and no more *sad* *lonely* *bubbles*. |
Aspalis
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
57
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Posted - 2014.03.10 06:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Aspalis wrote:Of course not, because there are plenty of risks involved. But I do think it was silly to leave out something that is common knowledge, especially amongst people interested in space. While we're at it, lets police everyone mentioning the term "space flight" and make sure they go into detail about the dynamics of stable rocket flight before they continue on their brief topic about how much funding needs to go into MARS colonization. They should also discuss the Oberth Effect, Hohmann transfer orbits, the pendulum rocket fallacy, and the effects of zero-G on bone mass over time. And lets not forget the difficulties and expenses of preserving food for a long time, not to mention the health effects from eating highly-preserved foods only for extended periods of time. Oh no, I mentioned the pendulum rocket fallacy without going into detail about where to put the center of mass, center of lift, and center of thrust, and I didn't even run over topics such as thrust to weight ratio, thrust to mass ratio, the difference between weight and mass and how it affects spaceflight in a variety of rocket designs, specific impulse, the effect of atmosphere on specific impulse given various engine designs, atmospheric scale height and air resistance...oh no, I mentioned specific impulse and didn't go into detail about exhaust velocity, the Oberth effect, aerospike engines, and beamed power! AAAAAAAAAUUUUGH!!! edit: after writing this, I realized that as the Star Trek generation fades away it will likely be replaced by the Kerbal Space Program generation. Mark my words, it will happen.
They would think they had super villains to deal with!
Kerbal Space Program, the newest super villain simulator. Available now on Steam. |
Bronden Neopatus
Aliastra Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2014.03.10 07:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:MutnantRebel wrote:LOL no. Not at all. I'd rather it be a voluntary cooperation. Start Trek (Rodenberry) voluntarily created a *fictional* script where everyone volunteered to behave in a way other than humans have behaved for all of recorded history and poof the magical fairy land of the star trek world came to be. MutnantRebel wrote: But, it WOULD be a boost to economies all over this planet to go explore others.
It would? How do you know? Fact of the matter is you don't know. What WOULD boost the economy of the world is if all of the governments of the world stopped meddling in the affairs of all the people in the world. Governments produce nothing, all they do is consume wealth and consume productive capacity, and do so by involuntary means. Imagine all of the time and effort spent, by individuals and business, on complying with regulations. Imagine all the of the time and effort spent by governments on making sure people are complying with those regulations. Imagine all of the time and effort spent by governments on administrating their regulations. And not least of all, imagine all of the guns and bombs, which is wealth spent and then destroyed, destroying yet other forms of wealth all over the world, from fields to pigs and chickens, houses, buildings, and not least of all lives. Add up all of the wealth, involuntary stolen from the people of the world, by the governments of the world. Want a new planet to explore and give a massive boost to the economy? Get rid of your governments.
What makes you think that people would be any better than they are in existing societies without a government?
Look at EVE for a virtual world as you ask it.
Look at the tribes of Papua New Guinea for the real world as you ask it. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
110516
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 14:43:00 -
[34] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote: It's a bit hypocritical for me to say.. I spend most of my time making manufacturing of car-related robotics more efficient.. does this really contribute to our advancement as a species?
/Fÿ¡
"The greatest minds of my generation are all now writing Apps." - William Gibson "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
unidenify
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
69
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Posted - 2014.03.10 15:28:00 -
[35] - Quote
I always find it strange, but I know there are investment on space mining as we speak
I bet that first functional permanent spaceship (as one that never land on earth) would be mining vessel.
but some player argue that it would be hauler. |
MutnantRebel
Shamrock a knock Inc.
77
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Posted - 2014.03.10 15:42:00 -
[36] - Quote
I'd venture that those going out would not have any sort of combat protection.... After all, we ARE alone in this universe.... Right? LOL NO I will not take your sister for payment! I'm married to one sister already! |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1017
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Posted - 2014.03.10 15:59:00 -
[37] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:1) We have a huge war that whipes out most of the population, and most of the current countries. And out of this everyone says enough is enough and they unify.
2) Someone raises a big enough army and conquers the entire plant, and forces a planetary dictatorship. Which would lead to rebellions.
3) We get met by aliens and are forced to unite for the common good, or to kill them all.
4) We allow gov to evolve naturally, which started with the EU. Eventually we will all be one gov. But that will takes ages. 1.) Population cleansing does not teach lessons, it only fuels hatred and religion.
2.) Dictatorships are thinning out as modern education spreads. Many countries are now immune to falling for such political games. They all have democratic leaderships now and will only slip downhill in a steamy cloud of self-absorbed complacency. These people can no longer be tricked into believing that sh+¡t is gold.
3.) more on this in a bit
4.) We will never be all one government until we have other threats to contend with. One of the most basic human societal drives is the drive to unite against a common foe. That's the force that binds us. Not having foes, we will fall apart and split into different factions, and those factions will find reasons to hate each other.
The only thing that can unite all humans together is a combination of a surplus of resources and land, and a common threat to us all. We have to all agree that working together will defeat our enemies and win us more land and resources. That's the force that drives us. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
241
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 16:00:00 -
[38] - Quote
Bronden Neopatus wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote:MutnantRebel wrote:LOL no. Not at all. I'd rather it be a voluntary cooperation. Start Trek (Rodenberry) voluntarily created a *fictional* script where everyone volunteered to behave in a way other than humans have behaved for all of recorded history and poof the magical fairy land of the star trek world came to be. MutnantRebel wrote: But, it WOULD be a boost to economies all over this planet to go explore others.
It would? How do you know? Fact of the matter is you don't know. What WOULD boost the economy of the world is if all of the governments of the world stopped meddling in the affairs of all the people in the world. Governments produce nothing, all they do is consume wealth and consume productive capacity, and do so by involuntary means. Imagine all of the time and effort spent, by individuals and business, on complying with regulations. Imagine all the of the time and effort spent by governments on making sure people are complying with those regulations. Imagine all of the time and effort spent by governments on administrating their regulations. And not least of all, imagine all of the guns and bombs, which is wealth spent and then destroyed, destroying yet other forms of wealth all over the world, from fields to pigs and chickens, houses, buildings, and not least of all lives. Add up all of the wealth, involuntary stolen from the people of the world, by the governments of the world. Want a new planet to explore and give a massive boost to the economy? Get rid of your governments. What makes you think that people would be any better than they are in existing societies without a government? Look at EVE for a virtual world as you ask it. Look at the tribes of Papua New Guinea for the real world as you ask it.
Except tribes have Governments. They, at least if they follow the same structure as Native Americans, have an elder council. That is a Gov. The moment you have a leader of any kind you have a Gov. This is why true anarchy is a myth. It would collapse rather quickly and someone would step up and reform a gov. Be it the head of your house, or a council, or someone who had guns before anarchy and forced a dictatorship. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
110518
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 16:21:00 -
[39] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
2.) Dictatorships are thinning out as modern education spreads. Many countries are now immune to falling for such political games. They all have democratic leaderships now and will only slip downhill in a steamy cloud of self-absorbed complacency. These people can no longer be tricked into believing that sh+¡t is gold.
Tell that to Putin, Assad, China, N. Korea, and any other leader of a Middle Eastern or African country.
"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1017
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 16:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
2.) Dictatorships are thinning out as modern education spreads. Many countries are now immune to falling for such political games. They all have democratic leaderships now and will only slip downhill in a steamy cloud of self-absorbed complacency. These people can no longer be tricked into believing that sh+¡t is gold.
Tell that to Putin, Assad, China, N. Korea, and any other leader of a Middle Eastern or African country. Putin isn't a dictator, because his country is one of the ones immune to dictatorship. His people even now are against his leadership and it wont be long before his regime crumbles.
Most middle eastern and African countries aren't on that list of well-educated peoples who have tasted of freedom and luxury. Bits of China have seen it but a lot more doesn't even know what a cell phone is. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
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MutnantRebel
Shamrock a knock Inc.
77
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 16:39:00 -
[41] - Quote
One could say the US has a dictatorship. It's an elected one, but a dictatorship it certainly is.
One world governance is in it's middle stages as we type this. Russia, China, India... They ALL have been wanting one world currency and a re-balancing of world power. Currently it seems the US is the offensive military wing of the UN, but then we've bankers as well that love to fund, and profit, from wars. I think two groups are vying for world power and that is the UN and the East. West vs East pretty much.
Government needs to be in place, but it's only worth having when it is directly affected by and beholden to The People. Currently even the US doesn't have this. NO I will not take your sister for payment! I'm married to one sister already! |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
110519
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 16:54:00 -
[42] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
2.) Dictatorships are thinning out as modern education spreads. Many countries are now immune to falling for such political games. They all have democratic leaderships now and will only slip downhill in a steamy cloud of self-absorbed complacency. These people can no longer be tricked into believing that sh+¡t is gold.
Tell that to Putin, Assad, China, N. Korea, and any other leader of a Middle Eastern or African country. Putin isn't a dictator, because his country is one of the ones immune to dictatorship. His people even now are against his leadership and it wont be long before his regime crumbles. Most middle eastern and African countries aren't on that list of well-educated peoples who have tasted of freedom and luxury. Bits of China have seen it but a lot more doesn't even know what a cell phone is.
Diversion yet again from you. You clearly stated they are "thinning out", when they clearly are not.
And Putin not a dictator ? He's just sending in troops to countries that are not Russia and seizing for ownership and to protect "threatened Russian citizens in these areas". Just exactly like our Dear Mr. H. did 80 years ago. Exactly like. No difference at all. Nobody voted for a thing. And don't get me started on his "alternative lifestyle" policies. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
155
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 17:55:00 -
[43] - Quote
It's quite simple really.
Selling weapons and waging useless wars make for better profit then interplanetary conquests. |
Justin Cody
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
111
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 19:23:00 -
[44] - Quote
As far as goals go we simply need to set ones that are both very long term (say Mars) and also medium...(The Moon) and short term... organizing our satellite constellations better. The moon is only a few days distant by traditional chemical rockets and ion engines in space could make things much more efficient (no need to carry an oxidizer for example).
Starting a colony on the moon would be a good outpost for a few reasons...you could have a dark side observatory and a light side commerce/industrial zone for making rocket fuel for use in ion engines. Power is easy on the light-side. Solar panels could provide nearly everything in terms of power and eventually other sources (fusion) would be developed here on earth and exported. As an example...ITER will be starting up in a few years and could lead to commercial fusion power soon after.
It is important to set goals in both terms of shooting for the stars (figuratively) and accepting that even falling short still means you are flying high. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1019
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 19:38:00 -
[45] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:And Putin not a dictator ? He's just sending in troops to countries that are not Russia and seizing for ownership and to protect "threatened Russian citizens in these areas". Just exactly like our Dear Mr. H. did 80 years ago. Exactly like. No difference at all. Nobody voted for a thing. And don't get me started on his "alternative lifestyle" policies. People are glad to stay blind. What happens outside of their country is easy for their government to hide from them because they don't want to know aout it. It's not a dictatorship because the leader is highly limited in what he can make his people do. That's not to say he can't find bad things that they will allow, just that there are many worse things a dictator could and would be doing that he can't.
North Korea is a great example of a dictatorship. There you have a large group of people with terrible education and healthcare, being raised to believe all sorts of propaganda that isn't even close to the truth. The ruling family there can whip their people into a frenzy to do whatever they want, simply by telling them that it'll help win the fake wars their people believe their country is waging around the world.
We don't have anything like that in Canada or the USA, most European countries, Russia, or Australia, and we never will again. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
110521
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 19:52:00 -
[46] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Putin isn't a dictator, because his country is one of the ones immune to dictatorship. His people even now are against
That's what every pundit said about Fidel Castro. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1019
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 20:00:00 -
[47] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:You're truly astonishing. Have you forgotten Stalin so quickly ????
Also, this is what every pundit said about Fidel Castro. Terrible examples. When Stalin came into power, his country was poor and uneducated. And whoever said that about Fidel Castro was probably about as reliable a source of info as a far-right-wing news agency in the USA. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2582
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 22:30:00 -
[48] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
There is a frightening increase in the number of people the past decade who absolutely have no belief at all in science. Religious and sectarian wars are far more fun and exciting.
I do not think their numbers are increasing drastically. The US actually seems, in my opinion, to becoming more religiously passive and/or secular. IT just so happens the tool you mentioned in your first sentence, the internet, has given the fundamentalists, of all religions, a louder voice. Most people, even the theists I know, can not really stand fundamentalists. They are losing their grasp on the GoP just as the GoP is realizing they have lost their grasp of their fiscally conservative principles to cow tow to the 15% of the US population known as the Christian Fundamentalists. We see where that has gotten their party.
Again this is all just my opinion.
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1020
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 22:36:00 -
[49] - Quote
Slade you are correct. Saying that the numbers of religious fanatics are going up in the USA is like saying the numbers of gay people are going up in California. It's like saying people are more likely to be born r+¬tarded if they are born in the northwestern USA. The difference is not in how many there are but in how many come out in public. Fact is, numbers of Christians in the USA are going down, while numbers of non-religious in the USA are going up. The same trend is happening pretty much across all of Europe and North America, the majority of southeast Asia, Australia, Russia, The Ukraine, other Slavic countries, and even some parts of Africa. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
110526
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 22:41:00 -
[50] - Quote
Slade Trillgon wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
There is a frightening increase in the number of people the past decade who absolutely have no belief at all in science. Religious and sectarian wars are far more fun and exciting.
I do not think their numbers are increasing drastically. The US actually seems, in my opinion, to becoming more religiously passive and/or secular. IT just so happens the tool you mentioned in your first sentence, the internet, has given the fundamentalists, of all religions, a louder voice. Most people, even the theists I know, can not really stand fundamentalists. They are losing their grasp on the GoP just as the GoP is realizing they have lost their grasp of their fiscally conservative principles to cow tow to the 15% of the US population known as the Christian Fundamentalists. We see where that has gotten their party. Again this is all just my opinion.
I agree. The problem is the billionaires (Koch Bros) throwing the vast amounts of money at those nutcases for campaigns, et al. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
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Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2583
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 22:49:00 -
[51] - Quote
MutnantRebel wrote: Pushing wars over religion/resources/money/oil is not just profitable, it's a way to control people as well.
Adam Smith said, and I paraphrase, 'The best way to get the people to accept the burdens of a new tax is to do it in response to a new threat.'
One of the biggest drains on the US economy, and the fundamentalist's favorite, is the War on Drugs. |
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2583
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 22:53:00 -
[52] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
I agree. The problem is the billionaires (Koch Bros) throwing the vast amounts of money at those nutcases for campaigns, et al.
Those people will slowly lose out to their purely fiscally conservative counterparts, which I believe to be @ 20%+ of most population centers. Fundamentalists are in large numbers in Colorado and have failed to keep ********* illegal. That is one of my primary indicators of the lack of strength in the fundamentalist groups. They are like neo-nassis. They do not and will never, in this day and age, find a singular cohesive voice that brings all the differing factions together. |
Bronden Neopatus
Aliastra Gallente Federation
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 07:41:00 -
[53] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
2.) Dictatorships are thinning out as modern education spreads. Many countries are now immune to falling for such political games. They all have democratic leaderships now and will only slip downhill in a steamy cloud of self-absorbed complacency. These people can no longer be tricked into believing that sh+¡t is gold.
Tell that to Putin, Assad, China, N. Korea, and any other leader of a Middle Eastern or African country. Putin isn't a dictator, because his country is one of the ones immune to dictatorship. His people even now are against his leadership and it wont be long before his regime crumbles.Most middle eastern and African countries aren't on that list of well-educated peoples who have tasted of freedom and luxury. Bits of China have seen it but a lot more doesn't even know what a cell phone is.
Number of Moscow Grand Dukes toppled by the Russian People: zero. Number of Tsars toppled by the Russian People: zero. Number of Soviet Dictators toppled by the Russian People: zero. Number of Post-Soviet Authoritarians toppled by the Russian People: zero. Number of Corrupt Authoritarian Camarilla #n toppled by Corrupt Authoritarian Camarilla #n+1: countless.
Russia is truly inspirational for freedom fighters around the world v-¦v. |
MutnantRebel
Shamrock a knock Inc.
82
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 08:26:00 -
[54] - Quote
Don't forget, peeps.... Stalin staved tens of millions of Ukrainians to death through government induced famine. NO I will not take your sister for payment! I'm married to one sister already! |
Marcus Gord
Stormcrows
43910
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 09:25:00 -
[55] - Quote
To be on the topic of the Trek universe, are we forgetting that they had the collapse of the UN, WW3 with nuclear exchange, a eugenics war, and at least a few decades of hell on earth because of it?
All before the first warp flight of the Phoenix which took the curiosity of the Vulcans.
It looks all nice on the screen, but the history in universe is nasty. You can't take the sky from me
".....Storm'd at with shot and shell, Boldly they rode and well....." |
MutnantRebel
Shamrock a knock Inc.
82
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 10:32:00 -
[56] - Quote
never knew Star Trek Backstory..... NO I will not take your sister for payment! I'm married to one sister already! |
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2588
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 10:59:00 -
[57] - Quote
Bronden Neopatus wrote:Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
2.) Dictatorships are thinning out as modern education spreads. Many countries are now immune to falling for such political games. They all have democratic leaderships now and will only slip downhill in a steamy cloud of self-absorbed complacency. These people can no longer be tricked into believing that sh+¡t is gold.
Tell that to Putin, Assad, China, N. Korea, and any other leader of a Middle Eastern or African country. Putin isn't a dictator, because his country is one of the ones immune to dictatorship. His people even now are against his leadership and it wont be long before his regime crumbles.Most middle eastern and African countries aren't on that list of well-educated peoples who have tasted of freedom and luxury. Bits of China have seen it but a lot more doesn't even know what a cell phone is. Number of Moscow Grand Dukes toppled by the Russian People: zero. Number of Tsars toppled by the Russian People: zero. Number of Soviet Dictators toppled by the Russian People: zero. Number of Post-Soviet Authoritarians toppled by the Russian People: zero. Number of Corrupt Authoritarian Camarilla #n toppled by Corrupt Authoritarian Camarilla #n+1: countless. Russia is truly inspirational for freedom fighters around the world v-¦v.
A true dictatorship, or at least a successful one, would not have 8 leaders in less than 100 years, just saying. So apparently, some people in the Russian states have the power to overturn the leadership....more like 'they' are the ones that are really in power What better way to rule your people but behind the guise of 'charismatic' puppets. |
Adunh Slavy
1345
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 11:21:00 -
[58] - Quote
Bronden Neopatus wrote: What makes you think that people would be any better than they are in existing societies without a government?
Look at EVE for a virtual world as you ask it.
Look at the tribes of Papua New Guinea for the real world as you ask it.
What would make me think that? History.
Examine the instances of places with more government control. Are they more or less prosporous than places with less government control? Take a look at human advancements. Is there more or less inovation where government is involved?
You want to compare nearly stone age tribal cultures with post renessance cultures? See that apple? Does it look like an orange? Nope, I don't think so.
I'll await your Somalia canard and then point out Somalia is the result of a failed scocialist state and is in no way the result of an evolution towards a volintary sscociety.
You want to use Eve as a comparision? Eve where no one starves, no one can die? Please get a grip. Eve can not be used as a comparison simply because motivations and incentives in Eve are unreal.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2588
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 11:31:00 -
[59] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Bronden Neopatus wrote: What makes you think that people would be any better than they are in existing societies without a government?
Look at EVE for a virtual world as you ask it.
Look at the tribes of Papua New Guinea for the real world as you ask it.
What would make me think that? History. Examine the instances of places with more government control. Are they more or less prosporous than places with less government control? Take a look at human advancements. Is there more or less inovation where government is involved? You want to compare nearly stone age tribal cultures with post renessance cultures? See that apple? Does it look like an orange? Nope, I don't think so. I'll await your Somalia canard and then point out Somalia is the result of a failed scocialist state and is in no way the result of an evolution towards a volintary sscociety. You want to use Eve as a comparision? Eve where no one starves, no one can die? Please get a grip. Eve can not be used as a comparison simply because motivations and incentives in Eve are unreal.
The problem with societies without little to no government is that a large portion of the human population are morally charged and do not like to see the total subjugation of the lower classes, in the likes of what occurred when man was left to their own accord during the early years of the Capitalist experiment.
The socialist movement in the States was a direct backlash from the basic enslavement the workers experienced in the US pre 1890. If those that want governments to mostly dissolve, succeed at getting what they want, they need to better self regulate themselves; otherwise the masses will not be pacified like they were when they were totally uneducated. |
Marcus Gord
Stormcrows
43956
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 11:35:00 -
[60] - Quote
MutnantRebel wrote:never knew Star Trek Backstory.....
Not many do, it never got much screentime/mention.
One big mention it got though was a DS9 episode. IIRC the whole episode was set back in time (for them) in some great depression a few years from now.
Been a while since i watched it. You can't take the sky from me
".....Storm'd at with shot and shell, Boldly they rode and well....." |
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