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Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3330
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Posted - 2014.03.18 19:33:00 -
[241] - Quote
Cuci Cairi wrote:Is it not true that there is moderation in drinking, but by definition there is no longer moderation in the term "Provist?" .
Quite so. The word "provist" in my booze analogy would be equivalent to the word "alcoholic" - somebody who is addicted and consumed by an impulse that is, with moderation and sensible limits, perfectly healthy and acceptable. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
197
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Posted - 2014.03.18 21:52:00 -
[242] - Quote
Ok, this topic is old. How we doing on the Amarr/Minmatar front? Let's listen to them lament there woes and espouse curses upon each other for a bit. The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
942
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Posted - 2014.03.19 13:19:00 -
[243] - Quote
Cuci Cairi wrote:Heth is gone and all know his incompetence and insanity before he left. "All" means only deluded gallentean scum, who can't acknowledge Caldari culture, and accept Tibus Heth as a Hero and ideal for Caldari people. There is not a single gallentean, who could be more competent that Tibus Heth. And only disrespectful scum would call him insane.
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TomHorn
Dragonaurs Ndrangheta.
193
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Posted - 2014.03.19 15:01:00 -
[244] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Cuci Cairi wrote:Is it not true that there is moderation in drinking, but by definition there is no longer moderation in the term "Provist?" . Quite so. The word "provist" in my booze analogy would be equivalent to the word "alcoholic" - somebody who is addicted and consumed by an impulse that is, with moderation and sensible limits, perfectly healthy and acceptable.
The word "provist" it means you have a passion of patriotism. Their is a camaraderie, or a feeling of brotherhood, unique bond that unites group of people with similiar view.
Stitcher i would like to ask you question only need a yes or no answer. Tibus Heth and the nationalist movement created the meritocracy of merit.You agree with that right.
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Jace Sarice
Sarshitra Corporation
199
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Posted - 2014.03.19 15:06:00 -
[245] - Quote
TomHorn wrote: Stitcher i would like to ask you question only need a yes or no answer. Tibus Heth and the nationalist movement created the meritocracy of merit.You agree with that right.
Nobody does. Learn your own history.
Also, "meritocracy of merit" is redundant. -á |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
943
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Posted - 2014.03.19 15:24:00 -
[246] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:Stitcher wrote:Cuci Cairi wrote:Is it not true that there is moderation in drinking, but by definition there is no longer moderation in the term "Provist?" . Quite so. The word "provist" in my booze analogy would be equivalent to the word "alcoholic" - somebody who is addicted and consumed by an impulse that is, with moderation and sensible limits, perfectly healthy and acceptable. The word "provist" it means you have a passion of patriotism. Their is a camaraderie, or a feeling of brotherhood, unique bond that unites group of people with similiar view. I am afraid these categories are alien to him. To tell an outcast living in a wormhole about Caldari patriotism is like to cast pearls before swine.
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TomHorn
Dragonaurs Ndrangheta.
194
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Posted - 2014.03.19 15:44:00 -
[247] - Quote
Jace Sarice wrote:TomHorn wrote: Stitcher i would like to ask you question only need a yes or no answer. Tibus Heth and the nationalist movement created the meritocracy of merit.You agree with that right.
Nobody does. Learn your own history. Also, "meritocracy of merit" is redundant.
So you disagree with the reforms Heth put in place Jace, and the benefits it created for the trillions of State workers.
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Jace Sarice
Sarshitra Corporation
202
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Posted - 2014.03.19 15:55:00 -
[248] - Quote
TomHorn wrote: So you disagree with the reforms Heth put in place Jace, and the benefits it created for the trillions of State workers. To deny that Heth did not create a meritocracy of merit is to deny that our homeworld is Caldari Prime
Yes, I think that transforming a meritocracy into a dictatorship under one man was not beneficial to the State.
Pardon my brevity, but you are not worth the effort to discuss with at any length. Come to think of it, you are not worth discussing with at all. Welcome to my block list. -á |
TomHorn
Dragonaurs Ndrangheta.
194
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:03:00 -
[249] - Quote
The liberals, the only opinion they like to hear is their own. Enjoy your fantasy world where everyone agrees with each other. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
944
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:39:00 -
[250] - Quote
Jace Sarice wrote:TomHorn wrote: So you disagree with the reforms Heth put in place Jace, and the benefits it created for the trillions of State workers. To deny that Heth did not create a meritocracy of merit is to deny that our homeworld is Caldari Prime
Yes, I think that transforming a meritocracy into a dictatorship under one man was not beneficial to the State. That's the one of the most ignorant things I ever heard... "Dictatorship". I think here we have a case with freshly brainwashed by gallenteans brain.
Jace Sarice wrote: Pardon my brevity, but you are not worth the effort to discuss with at any length. Come to think of it, you are not worth discussing with at all. Welcome to my block list.
And, obviously, he just found that his gallentean brainwashing can't answer all questions, so he is blocking, because he becomes disturbed. If Mr. Sarice would be a citizen of the State, however, putting him into psychiatric clinic, where he would be forcibly reeducated and treated, could solve that problem. Unfortunately, he is a capsuleer now and outside of State authority, and I don't know who could help him...
Maybe, however, it is a just malfunctioning clone, and he will be normal after he will die... or am I being too optimistic? |
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Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2251
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:50:00 -
[251] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:The liberals, the only opinion they like to hear is their own. Enjoy your fantasy world where everyone agrees with each other.
I just spat my tea all over my pants in laughter. I'm sending you the bill for the dry cleaning. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
944
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:56:00 -
[252] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:TomHorn wrote:The liberals, the only opinion they like to hear is their own. Enjoy your fantasy world where everyone agrees with each other. I just spat my tea all over my pants in laughter. I'm sending you the bill for the dry cleaning. Better send your pants. |
Bryen Verrisai
EVE University Ivy League
96
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Posted - 2014.03.19 17:00:00 -
[253] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Fredfredbug4 wrote:TomHorn wrote:The liberals, the only opinion they like to hear is their own. Enjoy your fantasy world where everyone agrees with each other. I just spat my tea all over my pants in laughter. I'm sending you the bill for the dry cleaning. Better send your pants. I think she's trying to proposition you Fred. |
TomHorn
Dragonaurs Ndrangheta.
195
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Posted - 2014.03.19 17:05:00 -
[254] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Jace Sarice wrote:TomHorn wrote: So you disagree with the reforms Heth put in place Jace, and the benefits it created for the trillions of State workers. To deny that Heth did not create a meritocracy of merit is to deny that our homeworld is Caldari Prime
Yes, I think that transforming a meritocracy into a dictatorship under one man was not beneficial to the State. That's the one of the most ignorant things I ever heard... "Dictatorship". I think here we have a case with freshly brainwashed by gallenteans brain. Jace Sarice wrote: Pardon my brevity, but you are not worth the effort to discuss with at any length. Come to think of it, you are not worth discussing with at all. Welcome to my block list.
And, obviously, he just found that his gallentean brainwashing can't answer all questions, so he is blocking, because he becomes disturbed.
Yes, he can not and will not admit that Heth and the nationalists changed the lives of the trillions of State workers for the better.
Diana Kim wrote:Maybe, however, it is a just malfunctioning clone, and he will be normal after he will die... or am I being too optimistic?
I think you are being to over optimistic Diana. They are not as honest as they would like you to believe. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2253
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 17:07:00 -
[255] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote: Better send your pants.
Please stop hitting on me. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
201
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Posted - 2014.03.19 20:23:00 -
[256] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Diana Kim wrote: Better send your pants.
Please stop hitting on me. Don't listen to him Kimmy, it's fun to watch him squirm. The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
James Syagrius
Syndicated Ice
821
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 21:06:00 -
[257] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:First of all, Andreus, I forgot how well you can speak when the spirit seizes you. That was very well said, very well indeed. And James, do you think I want to live in a cluster where Diana Kim is right and I'm wrong? Perhaps what I said wasn't logically supported to the extent it could have been, but it was very much from the heart.
I feel marginalised in my own community - for the last year all I have seen is the Federation on the offensive, crowing about their gains when the pendulum is with them, scorched earth and booby traps when it isn't. Using their strength like a blunt instrument because they can - even though their decision to storm the Shiigeru arguably cost many more lives than it ever could have saved.
The best of us die. The rest of us go on. It makes me heartsick. It troubles me that you feel so Pieter.
But your disquietude aside, many seem to council a blissful forgetfulness regarding the Provosts role in the State until very recently.
Thus I hope you will forgive our caution.
The quintessential threat poised by the Shiigeru to both the body and soul of the Federation required its removal.
Had the cost in felling her been ten fold it would have remained necessary.
An honorable and equitable peace is now possible.
Perhaps we would all be better served exploring that. GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
-á
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TomHorn
Dragonaurs Ndrangheta.
195
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Posted - 2014.03.19 21:49:00 -
[258] - Quote
Quote:James Syagrius [quote]
The quintessential threat poised by the Shiigeru to both the body and soul of the Federation required its removal.
Had the cost in felling her been ten fold it would have remained necessary.
Shiigeru was no threat.It was in the orbit of our own homeworld, for the purpose of defending Caldari sovereignty. Your President Foiritan signed a treaty which cede control of Caldari Prime and handed it back to the State yc110, it was the sovereignty of the Caldari State.
The attack by the goverment of Roden on the Shiigeru and on our homeworld, was an attack on another nations sovereignty, which broke an international treaty. Cost the lives of many people.
Im sure the CEP see them as criminals. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
4371
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Posted - 2014.03.19 22:24:00 -
[259] - Quote
No, it's pretty clear who the CEP actually see as criminals, indicated by the fact that they negotiated with the Roden government. They tried to negotiate with some actual criminals, but lo and behold, that didn't work out so well, which is why the Provists were legally dissolved and now have no power or authority in the State.
And yes, I am going to continue to be incredibly smug about that. Mane 614
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3345
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Posted - 2014.03.19 22:52:00 -
[260] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:First of all, Andreus, I forgot how well you can speak when the spirit seizes you. That was very well said, very well indeed. And James, do you think I want to live in a cluster where Diana Kim is right and I'm wrong? Perhaps what I said wasn't logically supported to the extent it could have been, but it was very much from the heart.
I feel marginalised in my own community - for the last year all I have seen is the Federation on the offensive, crowing about their gains when the pendulum is with them, scorched earth and booby traps when it isn't. Using their strength like a blunt instrument because they can - even though their decision to storm the Shiigeru arguably cost many more lives than it ever could have saved.
The best of us die. The rest of us go on. It makes me heartsick. It troubles me that you feel so Pieter. But your disquietude aside, many seem to council a blissful forgetfulness regarding the Provosts role in the State until very recently. Thus I hope you will forgive our caution. The quintessential threat poised by the Shiigeru to both the body and soul of the Federation required its removal. Had the cost in felling her been ten fold it would have remained necessary. An honorable and equitable peace is now possible. Perhaps we would all be better served exploring that.
Of course we would, James. A thousand times better served than we are in chewing over the dry and dusty bones of this war - want to hazard an educated guess which will actually get done? |
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Erik Kaassan
Burning Shadow Empire
72
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Posted - 2014.03.19 23:58:00 -
[261] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:James Syagrius wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:First of all, Andreus, I forgot how well you can speak when the spirit seizes you. That was very well said, very well indeed. And James, do you think I want to live in a cluster where Diana Kim is right and I'm wrong? Perhaps what I said wasn't logically supported to the extent it could have been, but it was very much from the heart.
I feel marginalised in my own community - for the last year all I have seen is the Federation on the offensive, crowing about their gains when the pendulum is with them, scorched earth and booby traps when it isn't. Using their strength like a blunt instrument because they can - even though their decision to storm the Shiigeru arguably cost many more lives than it ever could have saved.
The best of us die. The rest of us go on. It makes me heartsick. It troubles me that you feel so Pieter. But your disquietude aside, many seem to council a blissful forgetfulness regarding the Provosts role in the State until very recently. Thus I hope you will forgive our caution. The quintessential threat poised by the Shiigeru to both the body and soul of the Federation required its removal. Had the cost in felling her been ten fold it would have remained necessary. An honorable and equitable peace is now possible. Perhaps we would all be better served exploring that. Of course we would, James. A thousand times better served than we are in chewing over the dry and dusty bones of this war - want to hazard an educated guess which will actually get done?
Allow me to answer that: old predjudices die hard.
I have no ties to luminaire or caldari prime except that I am caldari myself. However I must insist that although the shiigeru (damn the autocorrecting text program) being removed potentially saved lives, the cost was not at all justified. The Gallente perferred to let guns do the negotiating because of their advantage in strength. Rational but far from what I would say is morally acceptable. My own people are not blameless for this incident but the Gallente imperialist attitudes touched off this conflict. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3332
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 00:13:00 -
[262] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:Stitcher i would like to ask you question only need a yes or no answer. Tibus Heth and the nationalist movement created the meritocracy of merit.You agree with that right.
No.
In (possibly futile) anticipation of the idea that you might demand an explanation for that stance rather than spluttering incoherently at the notion that somebody might not share your worship of Heth's regime, here it is: The concept of meritocracy existed long before the Provists came along. It may not have been properly implemented, and they maybe succeeded in inspiring the bulk Caldari populace into reclaiming the State from nepotists and corrupt playboys, I'll go that far. But did they create it? Absolutely not.
If anybody deserves being named as the State's original patron of meritocracy in the age of corruption and insider hiring, it would be the late Otro Gariushi-sensei, and he would probably deny the honour. He was certainly a staunch anti-Provist, as evidenced by his own speeches around about the time of the homeworld troubles. Do the words "We must never be united in hate" sound familiar?
YC100 was a good year for Ishukone. Out went Les Akkilen and his board of face-stuffing cronies and in came the most popular CEO the Caldari had seen since Matias Sobaseki. It took only a handful of months for the corporation to turn around and become probably the first functionally meritocratic Okusaiken in the State. THAT is meritocracy in action, and it happened a decade before anybody had ever heard of Citizen Heth the MTAC driver and bottom-rung failure, let alone "his" New Meritocracy.
But let's entertain for a moment the fantasy that Heth really did invent, mastermind and inspire the creation of meritocracy across the whole state. Well done him - a good service to his people. ONE good service. Versus an ocean of at best mere adequacy and churned by deep and incompetent currents of rage, hatred, violent phobia and fascist delusions of monopoly.
Where I'm from, a single moment of inspired competency doesn't counterweigh that kind of ineptitude. Where I'm from, one good deed doesn't excuse a lifetime of crime.
Where I'm from, leaders who send their toadies into a courtroom wielding an executive cease-and-desist have lost all claim to leadership. If the people at the top do not agree to be bound by the law, then it is worse than meaningless - it becomes a weight tied to the citizenry's ankles, used to drag them down when the Oyabun who has stolen their society decides to throw them into the harbour.
Quote:The word "provist" it means you have a passion of patriotism. Their is a camaraderie, or a feeling of brotherhood, unique bond that unites group of people with similiar view.
Aye, a Provist has a passion for patriotism in much the same way that an alcoholic has a passion for alcohol - an excessive, all-consuming obsession with it.
I'm a patriot, and a damned proud one. But for me, it's the equivalent of a beer with dinner, or a social whisky with friends. A pleasure, a social lubricant and at worst a happy vice.
For a Provist? It's their world, their definition. They cease to be Caldari and instead become a husk, animated only by their fanaticism.
Caldari are persons. We are individuals, pulling together. Heiian dictates the sacrifice of self-interest for the greater good but in order for that to happen there must first be a self-interest to sacrifice. Caldari should be substantial, should be thinkers and artists, scholarly and soldierly. As deep as oceans, as strong as mountains and as cunning as the Winds. Heiian should compel us to enrich ourselves at every turn so that if, and when, we are called upon to put ourselves aside and do our duty, what we give to the greater good is something worthwhile and competent.
Anything that involves devolving into a two-dimensional, monomotivated mockery of a person is, in my view, a betrayal of that ethos. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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James Syagrius
Syndicated Ice
831
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 01:56:00 -
[263] - Quote
Erik Kaassan wrote:The Gallente preferred to let guns do the negotiating because of their advantage in strength. So we prefered?
You know our mind so well then.
Had the thing not been there it wouldn't have had to be removed.
Lets not forget why it was there; GÇ£Do what we want or we will glass Gallente Prime.
The motives of peacemakers indeed.
Erik Kaassan wrote:Rational but far from what I would say is morally acceptable. You will forgive me if I donGÇÖt pay much heed to lectures on morality from a Caldari loyal to the State.
Erik Kaassan wrote:My own people are not blameless for this incident but the Gallente imperialist attitudes touched off this conflict. No the invasion of Federal space caused that, the placement of a Titan in our home system caused that, the thuggish actions of you leadership supported by the vast majority of your population caused thatGǪ but not blamelessGǪ indeed.
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Of course we would, James. A thousand times better served than we are in chewing over the dry and dusty bones of this war - want to hazard an educated guess which will actually get done? It wasnGÇÖt much of a hazard was it Pieter.
For that at least I am sorry.
Oh, and you my lecture me on morality if you please, the other fellow... no. GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
-á
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James Syagrius
Syndicated Ice
831
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Posted - 2014.03.20 02:02:00 -
[264] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:Your President Foiritan signed a treaty which cede control of Caldari Prime and handed it back to the State yc110. Yes, well we learned how to keep and enforce treaties form the State.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
-á
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Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2263
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 02:44:00 -
[265] - Quote
TomHorn you haven't payed for my dry cleaning bill yet! Check your mailbox I forwarded it to you! Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2264
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 03:35:00 -
[266] - Quote
So, TomHorn did actually pay for my dry cleaning and gave me some fine cigars as well! While he did unfairly blame Liberals for the spill, that can be looked over.
-Paying the bill
-Wallet information
While I still consider his political views and motives to be extreme and questionable, TomHorn is a sophisticated man who is willing to spend a small amount of time and effort to correct personal mistakes. While I still wholeheartedly disagree with his views, he did gain a small amount of my personal respect. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
950
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Posted - 2014.03.20 07:38:00 -
[267] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:TomHorn wrote:Your President Foiritan signed a treaty which cede control of Caldari Prime and handed it back to the State yc110. Yes, well we learned how to keep and enforce treaties form the State. We should do with current treaty the same you did with previous. And not just stop with kicking oppressors out from Caldari Prime, but do the same with Gallente Prime what gallenteans did to Caldari Prime. Maybe after that they will start understanding us, and peace might be possible. |
Erik Kaassan
Burning Shadow Empire
72
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Posted - 2014.03.20 17:39:00 -
[268] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:Erik Kaassan wrote:The Gallente preferred to let guns do the negotiating because of their advantage in strength. So we prefered? You know our mind so well then. Had the thing not been there it wouldn't have had to be removed. Lets not forget why it was there; GÇ£Do what we want or we will glass Gallente Prime. The motives of peacemakers indeed. Erik Kaassan wrote:Rational but far from what I would say is morally acceptable. You will forgive me if I donGÇÖt pay much heed to lectures on morality from a Caldari loyal to the State. Erik Kaassan wrote:My own people are not blameless for this incident but the Gallente imperialist attitudes touched off this conflict. No the invasion of Federal space caused that, the placement of a Titan in our home system caused that, the thuggish actions of you leadership supported by the vast majority of your population caused thatGǪ but not blamelessGǪ indeed. Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Of course we would, James. A thousand times better served than we are in chewing over the dry and dusty bones of this war - want to hazard an educated guess which will actually get done? It wasnGÇÖt much of a hazard was it Pieter. For that at least I am sorry. Oh, and you my lecture me on morality if you please, the other fellow... no.
Last I checked, it was named CALDARI prime. That is the home of MY people, not yours. You are one to speak of morality when your own government keeps the peace by launching the occasional lynch mob or campaign of ethnic repression.
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Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
237
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Posted - 2014.03.26 19:48:00 -
[269] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:James Syagrius wrote:TomHorn wrote:Your President Foiritan signed a treaty which cede control of Caldari Prime and handed it back to the State yc110. Yes, well we learned how to keep and enforce treaties form the State. We should do with current treaty the same you did with previous. And not just stop with kicking oppressors out from Caldari Prime, but do the same with Gallente Prime what gallenteans did to Caldari Prime. Maybe after that they will start understanding us, and peace might be possible. Wouldn't work you would just **** us off with the attempt and we would be right back to square one with this whole war. Let the diplomats do there job. The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
960
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 02:27:00 -
[270] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:Diana Kim wrote:James Syagrius wrote:TomHorn wrote:Your President Foiritan signed a treaty which cede control of Caldari Prime and handed it back to the State yc110. Yes, well we learned how to keep and enforce treaties form the State. We should do with current treaty the same you did with previous. And not just stop with kicking oppressors out from Caldari Prime, but do the same with Gallente Prime what gallenteans did to Caldari Prime. Maybe after that they will start understanding us, and peace might be possible. Wouldn't work you would just **** us off with the attempt and we would be right back to square one with this whole war. Let the diplomats do there job. That's what we MUST do for diplomats would be able to negotiate. This must be done in order for gallente to understand our position.
And if they can't... Well, then simply force them out, fight all over and don't waste time on diplomacy, since it would mean that they are animals who can't understand humans anyway. |
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