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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.04.24 16:58:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Lord Violent Pretty sure it never said on the box "Train your skills to fly elite ships....and then dont buy them because the markets being price gouged"
/Signed
Nope.. but im pretty sure it said "player controlled market".
Either way, i agree with the hac prices being silly(or bascily just t2 stuff).
Spirits in the night! Allll Niiight!! |
Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.04.24 16:58:00 -
[32]
tbh imo one of the problems is the extreamly small DPS incrase on guns as you go up from small --> med --> Large. there are other benifits like more range ect but on a close range ship the difference goes from 10km to 20km and the incrased speed of smaller ships enables taht gap to be closed fast!
imo decrease damage of ALL medium guns and ALL small guns.
at the moment the DPS increase goes like this
medium guns have 33.33% more DPS than the small conuterpart. Large guns have 33.33% more DPS than the medium counterpart.
this is extreamly small and means that a gun on a af does NEARLY as much DPS as the equivlant gun one size up on a crusier ect
if they changed it to be medium guns have 50% more DPS than the small counterpart large guns have 50% more DPS than the medium counterpart imo game would be much more balanced! [by that i mean leave large guns how they are, and decrease medium guns dmg so that the difference from med to large is 50% ect]
that imo would improve eve and the current hac price situations
-------------------Sig-----------------------
IPO idea: give it a read, feedback wanted, thanks |
Karazaan
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Posted - 2006.04.24 17:04:00 -
[33]
Originally by: madaluap
keep it down i wont accept personal assaults nor trolling so you can sabotage a thread, write it out properly or dont post.
P.S: i dont know what you are on about, please re-read my post, i dont want 20 mil hacs.
Sorry, I don't do personal assaults or trolling, you wrote:
"they are to pricy and thats all because CCP doesnt update the ammount of bpo to the ammount of players since their introduction."
And that's why I updated you on the fact that price will stay high and why.
You ask about a % increase that goes with the population, but it does'nt work, is it 20 HAC and 20 Shield Flux Coil 2 ? Well, nobody use them, so why care. Availability can't go with the use because the use of the module CAN change, like Damage Control for example, so you can't put more because people use it more. If everyone goes to BC2, there will be an oversupply of HAC and their market will crash.
Market must follow the movement, not the movement follow the market. The market should'nt cause the crash.
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juduzz
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Posted - 2006.04.24 17:08:00 -
[34]
HAC prices are fine, im not a builder and no longer have cheap HAC contacts, just spent 250 mill on a vaga (ship plus equip) few weeks back well worth it.
Although wouldnt spend the price on certain ones mainly cus think they suck to the alturnitives. ie would buy a zealot not a deimos ect.
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Tsukasa Tenyo
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Posted - 2006.04.24 17:14:00 -
[35]
/sign, CCP respect my authorwitor and goive out more BPO's Love is just a word, but said by a loved one creates the greatest feeling tat is unsurpassable by any other. |
missusblonde
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Posted - 2006.04.24 17:19:00 -
[36]
Edited by: missusblonde on 24/04/2006 17:20:35 I dont have a HAC bpo and im jealous with rage of whoever is getting all that isk from selling these, all i know is they are making the owners a lot of isk and im not one of them so please seed more hacs or make all t2 sold on npcs everyone should be able to fly HACs its not like they are elite ships or anything please just give everyone a HAC bpo so we can all be equal, the game isnt fair everyone should be the same it makes me jealous looking at people who have more than me i dont care if they worked hard for it ITS NOT FAIR!
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Mr Breakfast
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Posted - 2006.04.24 17:23:00 -
[37]
The more BPOs that are handed out, the greater the chance that respectable sellers like Naga will get their hands on them. If you really think handing out more BPOs will do nothing to fix the problem, you should ask why BSes, command ships, and other high-powered vessels are not equally overpriced. Why don't AFs cost 50mil each, for example? They could if the wrong people controlled most AF BPOs, but those who do produce AFs are responsible enough that prices don't go through the roof.
A far better solution that others have already mentioned would be to drop BPCs from rats, hand out BPCs as mission rewards, or guarantee that reverse engineering will make many-run BPCs. Anything to spread out production control of HACs and other elite/t2 merchandise.
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missusblonde
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Posted - 2006.04.24 17:24:00 -
[38]
.... and i dont care if another player puts more effort into the game than me thus earns enough isk to be able to afford a HAC, i want one and i cant afford it ITS NOT FAIR!
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missusblonde
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Posted - 2006.04.24 17:25:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Mr Breakfast The more BPOs that are handed out, the greater the chance that respectable sellers like Naga will get their hands on them. If you really think handing out more BPOs will do nothing to fix the problem, you should ask why BSes, command ships, and other high-powered vessels are not equally overpriced. Why don't AFs cost 50mil each, for example? They could if the wrong people controlled most AF BPOs, but those who do produce AFs are responsible enough that prices don't go through the roof.
A far better solution that others have already mentioned would be to drop BPCs from rats, hand out BPCs as mission rewards, or guarantee that reverse engineering will make many-run BPCs. Anything to spread out production control of HACs and other elite/t2 merchandise.
YES and while we are at it lets seed t2 bpos on the market for everyone to buy it would be the same thing really just betterer!
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Evil Thug
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Posted - 2006.04.24 17:30:00 -
[40]
Originally by: missusblonde .... and i dont care if another player puts more effort into the game than me thus earns enough isk to be able to afford a HAC, i want one and i cant afford it ITS NOT FAIR!
I want Ferrari in RL. I want one, but cant afford it. Its not fair.
t2 bpc is definitely solution. ----------------------------------------------- Logged in a system, next to you =) |
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missusblonde
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Posted - 2006.04.24 17:34:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Evil Thug
Originally by: missusblonde .... and i dont care if another player puts more effort into the game than me thus earns enough isk to be able to afford a HAC, i want one and i cant afford it ITS NOT FAIR!
I want Ferrari in RL. I want one, but cant afford it. Its not fair.
t2 bpc is definitely solution.
"t2 bpc is definitely solution" - care to elaborate?
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Aziza
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Posted - 2006.04.24 17:36:00 -
[42]
HAC's are expensive, I can't afford to loose it and therefor I don't buy them, but I have no problem with the prices. HAC prices are fine. If anything, they should be more expensive and available only to committed players, not all these laxy bums in Jita grinding lvl2 missions in them. -------------------------
Thank you |
Evil Thug
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Posted - 2006.04.24 17:48:00 -
[43]
Originally by: missusblonde "t2 bpc is definitely solution" - care to elaborate?
Easy.
If CCP will seed more bpos - rich peeps, who is allready have hacs bpos, and theyr fun in accumulate isk \ assets will buy it. Sure price will drop, but i doubt, that this drop will be significant. Rich will became richer, at this point.
If CCP will cut production time - same thing. Why should you sell hacs at 2 x production price, when there is loads of rich morons, who`ll buy it at 8x ?
t2 bpc = solution. They will be accesible to anyone, with enough patience and dedication.
I have enough money to buy hacs, enough for rest of my eve career. I just don`t like when someone is ******* me, like t2 greedy productioners \ resellers do. ----------------------------------------------- Logged in a system, next to you =) |
missusblonde
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Posted - 2006.04.24 17:53:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Evil Thug
Originally by: missusblonde "t2 bpc is definitely solution" - care to elaborate?
Easy.
If CCP will seed more bpos - rich peeps, who is allready have hacs bpos, and theyr fun in accumulate isk \ assets will buy it. Sure price will drop, but i doubt, that this drop will be significant. Rich will became richer, at this point.
If CCP will cut production time - same thing. Why should you sell hacs at 2 x production price, when there is loads of rich morons, who`ll buy it at 8x ?
t2 bpc = solution. They will be accesible to anyone, with enough patience and dedication.
I have enough money to buy hacs, enough for rest of my eve career. I just don`t like when someone is ******* me, like t2 greedy productioners \ resellers do.
You cant blame the producers for what resellers do, and you cant blame the resellers for reselling really because the ships will sell for whatever people are willing to pay, if all stock is selling at a certain price then the ship IS worth that much.
Adding more HAC bpos into game would knock the prices down, and i think if its true there is only 8 of each whilst theres 20 of each of new types of ship bpo, then they need to seed at least 12 more HAC bpos.
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Bishop 5
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Posted - 2006.04.24 17:54:00 -
[45]
releasing more bpos ftw...
you spent 10 months training for HACs, then another 6 for decent support skills... then you have to pay twice the cost of a BS for one then get popped by a BS with 2 heavy nos
yay!
p.s. I don't fly Hacs as i'm too much of a cheapskate and don't really see the point when I could just buy a freakin' domi for 1/4 the price -------------
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burmese
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Posted - 2006.04.24 18:04:00 -
[46]
What happend to all the Zealots i cant find eny on the market or escrow Pink sig 4tw |
madaluap
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Posted - 2006.04.24 18:32:00 -
[47]
Edited by: madaluap on 24/04/2006 18:32:42
Originally by: missusblonde
You cant blame the producers for what resellers do, and you cant blame the resellers for reselling really because the ships will sell for whatever people are willing to pay, if all stock is selling at a certain price then the ship IS worth that much.
Adding more HAC bpos into game would knock the prices down, and i think if its true there is only 8 of each whilst theres 20 of each of new types of ship bpo, then they need to seed at least 12 more HAC bpos.[/quote
so you do agree, btw i have some isk stacked to being able to lose a couple deimos, but i have done what everyone keeps saying, fly something cheaper if you dont want to pay 200 mil for a hac.
offcourse! for some people hacs are worth it, else these prices wouldnt exist. im just saying that they might need to update the ammount of hacs produced to the ammount of players, that are in the game atm. DONT increase all tech 2 bpo, which i allready stated in my first post.
and yes i like that bpc idea, because that way those people that have enormous ammounts of LP can get there 10-run cerb bpc instead of a tech 2 rocket bpo...
it balances bpo, less crap bpo = increased price and more pbc for items that are trully needed.
_________________________________________________ no sig :( |
SasRipper
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Posted - 2006.04.24 18:53:00 -
[48]
Originally by: FFGR they are very good PvE ships too.
if u are using a hac for npcing and never use it for pvp u deserve to have your hac confiscatted and be shot in the face. Sig removed, image size 30,817 bytes (maximum is 24,000). Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) they sent the gank squad after my sig |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.04.24 19:42:00 -
[49]
Imagine many pilots having a HAC BPC and finding out that it isn't easy to get the needed resources for building it. --*=*=*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Vehestian
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Posted - 2006.04.24 19:48:00 -
[50]
<complain>Prices too high.</complain>
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madaluap
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Posted - 2006.04.24 19:51:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Tachy Imagine many pilots having a HAC BPC and finding out that it isn't easy to get the needed resources for building it.
erm these pilots are the same pilots who are building up R&D points @ agents, i think they dont have problems with setting up POS or selling them to people who do have the resources to build these things... _________________________________________________ no sig :( |
Anal awereness
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Posted - 2006.04.24 23:14:00 -
[52]
yep expensive as hell, good ships, loads of fun, but their price is way to high atm. ---------------------- are you aw3re? |
Karazaan
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Posted - 2006.04.24 23:18:00 -
[53]
Originally by: missusblonde
Adding more HAC bpos into game would knock the prices down, and i think if its true there is only 8 of each whilst theres 20 of each of new types of ship bpo, then they need to seed at least 12 more HAC bpos.
And maybe, just maybe, there is 3 new bpo dropping each months for each items (maybe even on the same friday morning) until there is 20 out total.
Then it stop and life do it's thing, evolution... |
Dracolich
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Posted - 2006.04.24 23:40:00 -
[54]
I think the problem is also this: People who pvp only, and dont have a bpo available, would think 200 mil to be alot... However, since a carebear can generate isk like Bill Gates at little or no risk, 200 mil is like what u can earn in a days work, then a hac is just pocket change.
So the economy is like this: Hacs are for ppl with deep pockets only(carebears, complex runners), while pvpers risk alot and gain little(other than the fun that eve is all about).
If you look at faction mods, navy issue bs's the prices are also to the roof, compared with lesser versions. If you want the extra edge, its gonna cost. What I see as the main problem with t2 ships and faction ships are the insurance, and that cant be altered coz a hac costs like 20 mil to build, thus u get that amount from a platinum insurance(if u do spend ur isk on this). So let say. if builders would sell a hac for 50 mil, and lets say for arguements sake that noone in eve would buy them to resell at 200 mil; then who would produce them? You could make far more isk with less hassle in other ways, thus no hacs to be sold at all... At least u can buy them now more frequently than before.
The only way out of this would be that CCP decided to let the npcs build t2 ships and sell them by the 1000s. Now that would be the grandest of all ideas, coz Eve should be a pvp game, not a isk generating simulator. _______________________________________
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ArchenTheGreat
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Posted - 2006.04.24 23:49:00 -
[55]
Every BPO in the game should have price in RP. So every dedicated player can get one. For now we have unfair situation where older player who got BPO when the first batch of BPOs was seeded have big advantage. No amount of RP nor dedication will give you Cerberus BPO now because they are not seeding it. I call it unfair. Every player in the game should have the same starting chance. It should be upto you if you can take it.
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Toy
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Posted - 2006.04.24 23:56:00 -
[56]
One factor the OP forgets is inflation...
Let's not forget that with the introduction of new freighters and barges etc, many people are now making insane amounts of ISK and can buy HAC at 250 to 400 mil each as that is just a few hours work to make...
IF you're NOT at the peak of the learning curve, you will find all the EVE prices rising and your ISK account getting smaller and smaller to the point where EVERY thread is about this price, that price, these prices, etc etc...
In other words, the real stealth nerf is against the PVPers...
If you are playing this game to solely PVP, then you aren't really making ISK as well as those who are good industrialists... This means you either have to PVP on the cheap (and resent HAC prices) OR PVP on the elite with a corpum fitted HAC, etc... [or PVP on the lame with a stabbed out ship cause you can't go elite or cheap]...
SO, HAC prices... pretty much fine as is... Will they hit 300-400 mil each cross the board? YES, in 5-8 months they will all be that way unless the inflation stops or the supply moves into balance it... |
K'reemy G'udness
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Posted - 2006.04.25 00:24:00 -
[57]
Edited by: K''reemy G''udness on 25/04/2006 00:25:51 I'm glad they're expensive. I don't have the skills for one yet, and if they were freely available to teh uber ones, I'd be waking up in-station more often. So, YAAAAAY!
Also, I think it makes them more precious; the loss is felt more deeply when you lose one of those. And maybe pvp'ers should get a hauler alt and study the markets.
EDIT: could we fix the insurance on T2 frigs? kthxbai ---
Stolen from Malka: ♥ |
Al Thorr
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Posted - 2006.04.25 00:33:00 -
[58]
Originally by: ArchenTheGreat Every BPO in the game should have price in RP. So every dedicated player can get one. For now we have unfair situation where older player who got BPO when the first batch of BPOs was seeded have big advantage. No amount of RP nor dedication will give you Cerberus BPO now because they are not seeding it. I call it unfair. Every player in the game should have the same starting chance. It should be upto you if you can take it.
Err I won my Bpo with 4.7k RPs with a -12/-14 lev 2 agent. And yes you may assume I was lucky.
you want lower prices, then petition the devs to lower the build time ( all be it for a limited time).as this would be the only way to lower the current prices - ie to sate demand now. All the Hac producers would much prefer to build more ships for less profit. this would kill the re seller market. and stop the continual whines about hac producers.
anyway back to doing stuff ... ooh I know ill count my isk..
Regards
Al Thorr
"You cant polish a turd" - The new rendered font is living proof.
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Derran
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Posted - 2006.04.25 00:38:00 -
[59]
More BPOs or even BPCs for T2 would be good. But even with more BPs, you still need more parts being made. Which means you need more moons with some of those hard to find moon materials.
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Frezik
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Posted - 2006.04.25 02:03:00 -
[60]
Quote: this is a playerdriving market, but its flawed. if CCP decides to put 100 caprecharger 2 bpo on the market you can buy them for 5 mil, so please no "demand and production babble".
The reason I quote the law of supply and demand is because people who don't understand supply and demand tend to make highly flawed suggestions as to how to fix the problem. HAC producers are not gouging. Gouging happens when you charge over the equilibrium price. Given the long wait time to fill orders, HAC prices need to go higher still to hit the equilibrium point.
That doesn't mean that HAC prices aren't a problem. It means that the invisible hand of the market is doing its job, and we just need to help it a bit so the supply side of the equation can keep up better with the demand side.
People who think HAC producers are gouging tend to suggest solutions that involve somehow punishing HAC producers, like flooding the market with bpcs/bpos, or having NPC corps sell them. Assuming an incorrect reason for the problem tends to create flawed solutions. ---- "Well in this case, he's being flamed, and rightly so, for whinning about a game mechanic that doesn't actually exist." -Lorth |
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