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Anni Hil-Ator
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2014.03.14 23:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
It seems like, maybe, this has actually happened -- a few alliances own massive amounts of space. But I'm just wondering what the general philosophy is behind this from the perspectives of CCP and players. It seems like CCP wouldn't really want this to happen anymore than smaller/independent corporations. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17093
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Posted - 2014.03.15 00:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
If they can hold it then they're welcome to it.
Coalitions and alliances form and disband constantly, even the largest corporations have lost vast quantities of space in the past. Sometimes by betrayal (see Band of Brothers and their downfall), at other times because someone forgot to pay a bill, see recent events and look at the history of Goonswarm, or just plain kicked out by other people, see TEST alliance.
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds Affirmative.
3810
|
Posted - 2014.03.15 00:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Posting in a fail attempt of an "Argh CFC took my space" thread.
Basically:
CCP doesn't care...it's the entire idea of their sandbox idea where they do NOT intervene in player created content, unless it's using exploits or it's EULA breaking.
Players don't give a ****. People who own space and can defend it, deserve the space. If you can't defend it, then you get kicked out. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Kronenbourg Strasbourg
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.03.15 00:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm very new, so can't speak from massive experience, but wouldn't it kinda suck if you had spent a lot of time / resources / effort in building up your own standing / experience / fleet / relationships / corp etc. only to not be allowed to fully exploit it because someone else who hasn't put in the same amount of effort gets jealous and says it is unfair?!
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Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1112
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Posted - 2014.03.15 01:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:If they can hold it then they're welcome to it.
Coalitions and alliances form and disband constantly, even the largest corporations have lost vast quantities of space in the past. Sometimes by betrayal (see Band of Brothers and their downfall), at other times because someone forgot to pay a bill, see recent events and look at the history of Goonswarm, or just plain kicked out by other people, see TEST alliance. The problem becomes, how easy it is to hold it unless attacked by one of the other 2 or 3 mega-coalitions. because a new guy cant put up a POS, shoot at a structure, or much of anything without the entirety of the owning alliance knowing about it and forming up a fleet of 50x their number to destroy them within an afternoon from a galaxy away. And getting "more firends" isnt very viable since a vast majority of the people you COULD recruit are already out there, or would rather join someone who already holds the space. and joining one of the already existing mega alliances doesnt solve the issue, it exasperates it.
HERO is an exception, and even they are having issues with holding SOV.
tl;dr holding vast amounts of SOV is not the problem, holding vast amounts of sov youll never visist save to refuel your moon-goo towers or kill anyone trying to live there IS. there should be incentives to NOT have your empire spread out over more territory than your willing to live in and actively patrol (a nerf to power projection and system/structure notifications would go a long way to helping the little guy). renters are an entirely different issue that just stems from too many carebears thinking they have a right to live in null and ***** when they dont get perfect safety from scary cloakers. |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
105
|
Posted - 2014.03.15 01:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
It would probably depend on the policies of the ruling alliance whether most players thought it was a good or bad thing. Regardless, high-sec, low-sec and wormholes would remain independent. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17096
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Posted - 2014.03.15 01:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
@ Nariya Kentaya I can certainly see where you're coming from in your post. I'm not a nullsec resident, and never have been, the closest experience I've had to nullsec is living in wormholes for 18 months so I'm not in any position to specifically discuss sov or the problems with it. I can only generalise using the bits and bobs I've picked up from people who do actually live there.
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
445
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Posted - 2014.03.15 02:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
If there really would be one coalition that controls all of null, I expect CCP would probably try do something against it to prevent EVE from becoming boring. But so far, there has always been someone who stirred things up - either a new-comer with big numbers or someone within the coaltion to break up the alliance, just to get some good fights.
It's been 7 months since the last big war ended, since then, CFC has been largely unopposed, but I don't expect that to last. Remember that just before the Fountain war, people complained that null was a big blue doughnut and that there would never again be a conflict, just before the biggest war in EVE history.
What's more of a concern is the ability of small entities with new players to contribute in conflicts largely decided by supercapitals. And CCP has recognized this. The siphoning units were meant to help smaller entities have some impact - whether they succeeded is questionable, but the intention is there and I expect further developments in that direction. |
Var D'ovoli
IronClad Victory Slightly Sexual
14
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Posted - 2014.03.15 17:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Thomas Builder wrote: What's more of a concern is the ability of small entities with new players to contribute in conflicts largely decided by supercapitals. And CCP has recognized this. The siphoning units were meant to help smaller entities have some impact - whether they succeeded is questionable, but the intention is there and I expect further developments in that direction.
The impact you speak of is feeble at best. The amount of goo that is syphoned before the unit is destroyed is minimal in most cases. This may have set-back production a whopping 0 whole minutes. It is a neat deployable and can be used effectively in certain cases however, dropping one on every goo pos that you find will result in lots of spensive losses. Just sayin'... |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds Affirmative.
3822
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Posted - 2014.03.15 20:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Var D'ovoli wrote:Thomas Builder wrote: What's more of a concern is the ability of small entities with new players to contribute in conflicts largely decided by supercapitals. And CCP has recognized this. The siphoning units were meant to help smaller entities have some impact - whether they succeeded is questionable, but the intention is there and I expect further developments in that direction.
The impact you speak of is feeble at best. The amount of goo that is syphoned before the unit is destroyed is minimal in most cases. This may have set-back production a whopping 0 whole minutes. It is a neat deployable and can be used effectively in certain cases however, dropping one on every goo pos that you find will result in lots of spensive losses. Just sayin'...
Let me highlight an important part you missed in Thomas Builder's post...
There you go.
He never said they worked, he never said they are good. He relayed the exact reason why CCP added them. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
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Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2258
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 00:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Back when Goons and TEST were allies, they controlled an enormous amount of space together. They had a falling out, and ended up at war with each other. Now Goons have won that war, but nearly a year after they aren't as strong as the combined Goons/TEST forces were before it.
If one alliance seized everything, the game (or at least, sovereign nullsec) would indeed get boring. But before that happens, there'd be fractures in their alliance, or other entities would band together against them.
Goons are not yet close to Band of Brothers' former strength, and BOB fell. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=318489 - Proposal for a new type of tech 2 Destroyer If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
165
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Posted - 2014.03.17 09:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Though BOB fell because CCP is incapable of adding added securities on forming and disbanding alliances.
If you would need a corp director vote to disband the alliance we would still have BOB and many other alliances around but since CCP is firmly "in the pockets of goons"(tm) this will never happen. |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds Affirmative.
3826
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Posted - 2014.03.17 14:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Though BOB fell because CCP is incapable of adding added securities on forming and disbanding alliances.
If you would need a corp director vote to disband the alliance we would still have BOB and many other alliances around but since CCP is firmly "in the pockets of goons"(tm) this will never happen.
Please take this crap and yourself back to GD. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Var D'ovoli
Tempest Legion Psychotic Tendencies.
16
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Posted - 2014.03.17 14:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:Var D'ovoli wrote:Thomas Builder wrote: What's more of a concern is the ability of small entities with new players to contribute in conflicts largely decided by supercapitals. And CCP has recognized this. The siphoning units were meant to help smaller entities have some impact - whether they succeeded is questionable, but the intention is there and I expect further developments in that direction.
The impact you speak of is feeble at best. The amount of goo that is syphoned before the unit is destroyed is minimal in most cases. This may have set-back production a whopping 0 whole minutes. It is a neat deployable and can be used effectively in certain cases however, dropping one on every goo pos that you find will result in lots of spensive losses. Just sayin'... Let me highlight an important part you missed in Thomas Builder's post... There you go. He never said they worked, he never said they are good. He relayed the exact reason why CCP added them.
I was in agreement with Thomas actually. I didn't miss any part of what he said. |
Yarda Black
Epidemic. Nulli Secunda
80
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 15:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
There is absolutely nothing stopping big coalitions from steamrolling. We're doing it and the CFC is doing it. RUS did it with help from the CFC too, but they're kinda in trouble atm.
From a "vets" perspective I weep for nullsec. I truly believed the end of BoB was the best thing that happened to EVE.
But in all honesty; IF one group were to be dominant, it wont last. Guys like me aren't going to sit in a station all day celebrating succes. Somewhere, somebody has to be shot and destroyed. If there's no CFC or RUS to kill, there's going to be infighting.
Despite the massive influx of carebear renters, most nullsec players are still out here to shoot at stuff and PvP in fleets. |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
831
|
Posted - 2014.03.17 22:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:If they can hold it then they're welcome to it.
Coalitions and alliances form and disband constantly, even the largest corporations have lost vast quantities of space in the past. Sometimes by betrayal (see Band of Brothers and their downfall), at other times because someone forgot to pay a bill, see recent events and look at the history of Goonswarm, or just plain kicked out by other people, see TEST alliance. The problem becomes, how easy it is to hold it unless attacked by one of the other 2 or 3 mega-coalitions. because a new guy cant put up a POS, shoot at a structure, or much of anything without the entirety of the owning alliance knowing about it and forming up a fleet of 50x their number to destroy them within an afternoon from a galaxy away. And getting "more firends" isnt very viable since a vast majority of the people you COULD recruit are already out there, or would rather join someone who already holds the space. and joining one of the already existing mega alliances doesnt solve the issue, it exasperates it. HERO is an exception, and even they are having issues with holding SOV. tl;dr holding vast amounts of SOV is not the problem, holding vast amounts of sov youll never visist save to refuel your moon-goo towers or kill anyone trying to live there IS. there should be incentives to NOT have your empire spread out over more territory than your willing to live in and actively patrol (a nerf to power projection and system/structure notifications would go a long way to helping the little guy). renters are an entirely different issue that just stems from too many carebears thinking they have a right to live in null and ***** when they dont get perfect safety from scary cloakers.
Taking sov for smaller groups takes more work and cunning. When i was in 401k we joined with Black legion and captured a goon station system during the fountain war (nowhere near fountain). Now we are attempting to take sov elsewhere but there is no point attacking sov structures of a vastly bigger group until you have circumstances on your side. Part of the meta game is creating those circumstances or taking advantage of them when others create them. Just expecting stuff to fall in your lap because you want it is living in lala land. It takes work and effort and planning. It is however totally possible to take sov as a smaller group and posibly keeping it although that is prob harder Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
Anni Hil-Ator
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 04:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
Silvetica Dian wrote: Taking sov for smaller groups takes more work and cunning. When i was in 401k we joined with Black legion and captured a goon station system during the fountain war (nowhere near fountain). Now we are attempting to take sov elsewhere but there is no point attacking sov structures of a vastly bigger group until you have circumstances on your side. Part of the meta game is creating those circumstances or taking advantage of them when others create them. Just expecting stuff to fall in your lap because you want it is living in lala land. It takes work and effort and planning. It is however totally possible to take sov as a smaller group and posibly keeping it although that is prob harder
I was wondering about this. Sovereignty obviously works out best when you are present in the area it is being attacked. But I'm curious about not only how a smaller organization can take territory from a larger entity (as when it is embroiled elsewhere like you suggested), but I'm also wonder why a larger organization can't just take any territory it wants from a smaller organization. Is this due to the stength of the POS or... can the larger organization simply crush a smaller organization if they are so inclined? |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17177
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 06:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Anni Hil-Ator wrote: I was wondering about this. Sovereignty obviously works out best when you are present in the area it is being attacked. But I'm curious about not only how a smaller organization can take territory from a larger entity (as when it is embroiled elsewhere like you suggested), but I'm also wonder why a larger organization can't just take any territory it wants from a smaller organization. Is this due to the stength of the POS or... can the larger organization simply crush a smaller organization if they are so inclined?
A larger organisation can try and take territory belonging to a smaller group, but nullsec being nullsec that larger group is going to have made enemies, some of whom will be more than happy to team up with others for the opportunity to give the larger group a good kicking.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend (temporarily) and all that.
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |
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