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Bob Artis
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
11
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Posted - 2014.03.18 07:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
This was brought up on Sky Fighters comms while we were talking to Proc Diadochu who is running for CSM, and I want to see what everyone thinks about it.
- This Timer would only apply when using a wormhole to enter a K-space system with a +0.1 or higher security status.
- Upon entering the system you get a new timer that I'll just call the "recalibration" timer. This timer lasts only 3 mins or other appropriately small amount of time.
- This timer allows you to engage other pilots with the same timer in High/Low Sec systems with no consequences.
- If you choose to engage someone you do get your 5 min limited engagement timer aswell.
- The timer will expire immediately upon entering a station or using a stargate.
- There would be no delay on pilots appearing in local chat.
The idea here is that when you come from a wormhole to k-space it takes a second for Concord to recognize that you have entered the system since you didn't use one of the stargates which would normally notify the security forces of your presence.
The reason why I would like a timer like this is to make high-sec games a little more interesting. I don't like someone just camping a high sec whole and being able to jump whenever they like with no consequences, so if you want to engage someone on one of those wormholes you have to be prepared to get off the wormhole as fast as possible before you are safe. |
Sith1s Spectre
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
779
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Posted - 2014.03.18 08:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
I for one would support this good idea.
P.S would it be too much to ask for a polarisation timer? Sky Fighters - WH Space Mercs. -áFor more details https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=286708&find=unread
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Zlorthishen
Blue-Fire
16
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Posted - 2014.03.18 08:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
The only thing worse than station games is hisec wormhole games. Blue-Fire : Best Fire |
RcTamiya Leontis
Satan's Unicorns
0
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Posted - 2014.03.18 08:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Allowing me to finally follow those chickens jumping to high sec bragging how elite they are after a single hyperion smashed their fleet ? I like it :) |
Bloemkoolsaus
Viperfleet Inc. Disavowed.
137
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Posted - 2014.03.18 08:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Interesting idea. Would that also work the other way around, like if you jump out of a kspace that it takes a while before `concord` notices you left? |
Bob Artis
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
17
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Posted - 2014.03.18 08:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bloemkoolsaus wrote:Interesting idea. Would that also work the other way around, like if you jump out of a kspace that it takes a while before `concord` notices you left?
I don't really think it would work like that. Once Concord notices you they should maintain a constant lock, so whether you leave by wormhole, stargate, or cyno they will know instantly that you are gone.
What would be the point of adding that anyway? Entering wormhole space has always given you the ability to free fire on anyone you want regardless, and if you've been concorded then your ship loses the ability to use any form of navigation other then ordinary movement for a few seconds. |
Braxus Deninard
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
371
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Posted - 2014.03.18 08:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
I absolutely love this, it's a great idea. Really hope the current CSM can push this to CCP's attention if it isn't too late for them, it's something relatively small that would have a pretty big impact, fights on hisec exits will actually mean something now, it'll stop people just jumping to hisec when in deep armor. |
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
737
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Posted - 2014.03.18 09:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bob Artis wrote: 6. There would be a delay on pilots appearing in local chat.
Fixed it for you. There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency. |
Bob Artis
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
17
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Posted - 2014.03.18 09:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tul Breetai wrote:Bob Artis wrote: 6. There would be a delay on pilots appearing in local chat.
Fixed it for you.
The problem with this is that I don't want wormholes being used to get an unfair jump on pilots who have no intention of interacting with or are ignorant of wormholes.
The way I've explained it to myself is that while concord can instantly recognize that a particular pilot has entered a system, they can't necessarily get a lock on their location instantly without the help of a stargate, cyno, or station giving the location away.
Once they do finish getting a lock on you if they see you are in a fight with another pilot they were having trouble tracing they will just shrug and say "Guess they both wanted to fight". |
Chitsa Jason
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
1222
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Posted - 2014.03.18 09:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
It is an interesting idea, however I am afraid that it would discourage newer pilots entering wormhole space as they would not understand additional mechanics of why they have been killed in high sec. In any case I personally would be for it. CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
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RcTamiya Leontis
Satan's Unicorns
0
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Posted - 2014.03.18 09:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:It is an interesting idea, however I am afraid that it would discourage newer pilots entering wormhole space as they would not understand additional mechanics of why they have been killed in high sec. In any case I personally would be for it.
Why not add a popup for people who first time jump into wspace which explains this mechanic ? As far as i know in the old days of eve you even had a popupmessage when you jumped into lowsec for the first time |
D3m0n sam
Temnava Legion No Holes Barred
43
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Posted - 2014.03.18 09:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:It is an interesting idea, however I am afraid that it would discourage newer pilots entering wormhole space as they would not understand additional mechanics of why they have been killed in high sec. In any case I personally would be for it.
I'm all for new players coming into wormholes and stuff. but wasn't the mentality for wormhole that they should be scary places only the brave go into.
Would kind of bring that back to wormhole space. |
Winthorp
1365
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Posted - 2014.03.18 09:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:Chitsa Jason wrote:It is an interesting idea, however I am afraid that it would discourage newer pilots entering wormhole space as they would not understand additional mechanics of why they have been killed in high sec. In any case I personally would be for it. Why not add a popup for people who first time jump into wspace which explains this mechanic ? As far as i know in the old days of eve you even had a popupmessage when you jumped into lowsec for the first time
Not a bad solution they have popup warnings for other dangerous areas of space. (Insert witty signature here) |
Bob Artis
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
18
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Posted - 2014.03.18 09:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:Chitsa Jason wrote:It is an interesting idea, however I am afraid that it would discourage newer pilots entering wormhole space as they would not understand additional mechanics of why they have been killed in high sec. In any case I personally would be for it. Why not add a popup for people who first time jump into wspace which explains this mechanic ? As far as i know in the old days of eve you even had a popupmessage when you jumped into lowsec for the first time
I think this would be a more then fair solution to that problem.
WARNING Your safety can not be guaranteed immediately after returning from unknown space. Do you wish to continue?
We should never hold back new ideas or content just for the sake of making the game safer for new players. |
Sushi Nardieu
Collapsed Out Shadow Cartel
242
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Posted - 2014.03.18 09:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:It is an interesting idea, however I am afraid that it would discourage newer pilots entering wormhole space as they would not understand additional mechanics of why they have been killed in high sec. In any case I personally would be for it.
EVE online is a game of self-improvement. Mechanics don't just learn themself. You must make time for such knowledge.
I like this ethos of EVE online because it rewards those who work at it.
That doesn't mean tutorials and educational courses are not necessary. It means that there is an unknown world to be explored out there in New Eden. Some might want to tackle it with their own fresh perspective, while others may want to read an entire page of text before they begin their journey. The choice itself has beauty.
It also doesn't mean that we should leave newbies in the dark. Resources should be available. Players should clearly be able to discern the difference between types of space (low, null, high, J) for example. If newbies want danger, then they will go seek it. They do not need game mechanics to be designed for their sake. The Guns of Knowledge-á |
RcTamiya Leontis
Satan's Unicorns
0
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Posted - 2014.03.18 10:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bob Artis wrote:RcTamiya Leontis wrote:Chitsa Jason wrote:It is an interesting idea, however I am afraid that it would discourage newer pilots entering wormhole space as they would not understand additional mechanics of why they have been killed in high sec. In any case I personally would be for it. Why not add a popup for people who first time jump into wspace which explains this mechanic ? As far as i know in the old days of eve you even had a popupmessage when you jumped into lowsec for the first time I think this would be a more then fair solution to that problem. WARNING Your safety can not be guaranteed immediately after returning from unknown space. Do you wish to continue? We should never hold back new ideas or content just for the sake of making the game safer for new players.
sounds perfect, i'd add a small explanation on the bottom and we got it
Also a popup for wspace is a must have anyway, i lost count on newbies i spotted in c2 with HS static who strand or get killed, i started to help them moving out allready because ganking themis no fun at all Newbies have no idea of wspace in general, so if you take this argument for not adding this timer, we need an entire rework of the tutorials first , to make sure newbies know about wspace |
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
74
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Posted - 2014.03.18 10:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
imo its a waste of the game designers time. First off the issue is the same as its kspace version of people sitting on hisec gates in lowsec. There are already means of dealing with this with wardec mechanics. Would also like to hear your view on some issues it would raise: Can you dock while timer is active or use gates? Can everyone engage you, even those who have been sitting in hisec all the time or just people following you through wh?
I see your wish for more engagements, but I think we would be better off having devs using more time on something else than something like this that in the end will not give us more content. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Awakened.
1425
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Posted - 2014.03.18 10:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
No thanks. Wormhole space doesn't need anymore timers and it's good that the current timers are relatively simple to understand.
If you don't want some to exploit fighting on a highsec wormhole, either don't fight them or bait them off it. +1 |
Bob Artis
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
18
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Posted - 2014.03.18 10:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
calaretu wrote: Can you dock while timer is active or use gates?
Yes. Did you even read my post?
Bob Artis wrote: 5. The timer will expire immediately upon entering a station or using a stargate.
calaretu wrote: Can everyone engage you, even those who have been sitting in hisec all the time or just people following you through wh?
No. You can not camp the high sec entrance to a wormhole and expect to get an easy gank because only people exiting the wormhole have the right to engage each other. Nothing is stopping you from camping the other side of the wormhole and following someone through. The only thing that will change is that you'll have to treat high sec connections like any normal connection and worry about fast tackle getting you.
Also remember the timer is suppose to be short. After it expires only people who engaged you before it ended will be allowed to continue to fight you with their limited engagement timers, so someone can't hold you forever and call for backup.
Rek Seven wrote:No thanks. Wormhole space doesn't need anymore timers and it's good that the current timers are relatively simple to understand.
Wormholes have fewer timer then K-space at the moment. That's not really a good argument.
Rek Seven wrote: If you don't want some to exploit fighting on a highsec wormhole, either don't fight them or bait them off it. There are much interesting things CCP could be spending their time on.
The current problem here is that fighting on a high sec exit is almost a 100% safe activity. The only dangers you face is being alpha'd or bumped off the hole. Camping gates in K-space still have a risk because of the one minute weapons timer. This kind of camp just seems too low risk for the potential reward. |
Jack Miton
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
3113
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Posted - 2014.03.18 11:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
I get why people want this but it makes god awful flavour sense. I think it's fine as is. If you change it all it would mean is that you'd get a few free ganks for a month or two and then people would just never engage on a HS wh so the overall change would actually be you get less fights.
It also makes it extremely dangerous (as in way too dangerous) to jump into a WH in anything other than a covops since if there's a camp you can do literal zero to get away from it. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
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Mcpate
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
19
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Posted - 2014.03.18 11:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Pretty stupid idea overall if you ask me..and you did. I guess it is for those not good enough to get it done while the target is in the hole.
Edit: I think its time for some of these "new Idea" people to move on to WOT, WOW or whatever the FK they want to play while waiting for someone else to 'create their content' or fix the game to work the way they want. |
RcTamiya Leontis
Satan's Unicorns
0
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Posted - 2014.03.18 11:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
Mcpate wrote:Pretty stupid idea overall if you ask me..and you did. I guess it is for those not good enough to get it done while the target is in the hole.
Edit: I think its time for some of these "new Idea" people to move on to WOT, WOW or whatever the FK they want to play while waiting for someone else to 'create their content' or fix the game to work the way they want.
Can you explain why you dislike this idea ?
I only see arguments for this idea here while contraside only says " cuz its stupid" |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Awakened.
1425
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Posted - 2014.03.18 11:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
Bob Artis wrote:Rek Seven wrote:No thanks. Wormhole space doesn't need anymore timers and it's good that the current timers are relatively simple to understand. Wormholes have fewer timer then K-space at the moment. That's not really a good argument.
That's your opinion but i think that a lot of people would agree that wormhole space is the best space because the mechanics and timers surrounding them are pretty simple.
Just look at wormhole space as being in international waters. You can't legally reprimand someone for what they did in said waters, when the reach land.
At the end of the day, i would be pretty silly if CCP changed the timers at this point. +1 |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2066
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Posted - 2014.03.18 12:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
Wow, people are getting really desperate or something.
Don't like HS wormhole games? Don't play them.
IMO this mechanic swings the pendulum too far to one side and has consequences beyond just the silly HS combat games.
So now I can just camp a HS WH in a stealth bomber. Any type of hauler that comes through all I have to do is tag it once, then follow it back thru the WH for an easy gank.
That can already be done in LS or 0.0 wormholes. It's a bit over the top to extend that to HS ones. |
mechform
Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy
11
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Posted - 2014.03.18 12:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
Right now, there is no consequence for hanging out on a hs wh, trying to pvp, then just jumping out into HS when you find out you made a mistake.
This 'timer' will add a consequence to an action, which is what eve is pretty good at marketing.
In regards to the hauling stuff out of a wh, as with all things wh, don't be stupid and you will be fine.
Black Power - Brotha's in space unite! |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2066
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Posted - 2014.03.18 12:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
mechform wrote:Right now, there is no consequence for hanging out on a hs wh, trying to pvp, then just jumping out into HS when you find out you made a mistake.
This 'timer' will add a consequence to an action, which is what eve is pretty good at marketing.
In regards to the hauling stuff out of a wh, as with all things wh, don't be stupid and you will be fine.
Please.
One could also use the time honored argument to say, a consequence to living in a WH with a HS static is that you will alway have one exit that cannot be easily camped. Don't like it then move to a WH without a HS static and at least then you only have to worry about the random HS connections.
Bottom line is that there are far more WH's going to 0.0, LS, or other wormholes than there are HS connections to begin with. I don't see how we need some extra mechanic to cater to that one. |
mechform
Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy
12
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Posted - 2014.03.18 12:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
Agreed, and we have had some great fights through those kinds of holes.
If your going to jump into a wh to pew, there has to be consequence. Just because there are holes we can already do that does not negate the fact the the hs wh should be left alone. If you aggro somebody then jump to hs, you are free from consequence?
It happens in null to hs all the time, all you have to do is de-aggro wait your timer than you can jump. Same thing should apply for wh--> to Kspace jumps. Not as strict as in the wh will not allow you to jump, but if you are smart you can easily get away, or de-aggro and tank the timer. Black Power - Brotha's in space unite! |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2066
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Posted - 2014.03.18 12:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tell you what. Here's and alternative which can help without taking it too far. For one I highly doubt CCP would ever implement anything that stops concord intervention short of the current mechanics (wardecs, duels etc).
for HS connected wormholes, when you jump through, you land say 30km from the hole. That way at least if you can catch the people jumping in, all you gotta do is be able to web them down before they can burn back 30km and you are good. |
mechform
Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy
12
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Posted - 2014.03.18 12:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
Please.
4k is plenty of space and time to get away. Black Power - Brotha's in space unite! |
RcTamiya Leontis
Satan's Unicorns
0
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Posted - 2014.03.18 12:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:mechform wrote:Right now, there is no consequence for hanging out on a hs wh, trying to pvp, then just jumping out into HS when you find out you made a mistake.
This 'timer' will add a consequence to an action, which is what eve is pretty good at marketing.
In regards to the hauling stuff out of a wh, as with all things wh, don't be stupid and you will be fine.
Please. One could also use the time honored argument to say, a consequence to living in a WH with a HS static is that you will alway have one exit that cannot be easily camped. Don't like it then move to a WH without a HS static and at least then you only have to worry about the random HS connections. Bottom line is that there are far more WH's going to 0.0, LS, or other wormholes than there are HS connections to begin with. I don't see how we need some extra mechanic to cater to that one.
to get rid of 0 risk pvp as mentioned earlier of course if you can alpha the campers, there is a risk, sadly not everybody can alpha a camper ;)
I rather have a 5 minute combat timer in wspace in general once i shot a target ( so yes haulers can jump back and are safe, why ? because if they dont get pointed or click warp while in a warp bubble they shouldn't have a timer, right ? ) This is such a simple solution you all should be happy with : pvp has consequences as usual, for haulers and running fags nothing changed for HS wh related stuff On the other hand, I can understand that a lot peopel dislike this mechanic, most mentioned reason here is " haulers will be too easy to gank etc" so i ask you here, where is the difference compared to a low sec exit in that case for the hauler ? If you complain about that, don't forget that its allready 66% of kspace exits with a mechanic like that and this additonal timer will make it a 100% |
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