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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Kadl
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
86
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Posted - 2014.03.20 21:33:00 -
[481] - Quote
Grookshank wrote:What I am implying it, that this is a serious nerve to wreck loot - mostly for new players who miss the skills to blitz. Blitzing is already more efficient than looting/salvaging. So once you have the skills, you won't touch wrecks anyways. The people who are hit are players who rely on salvage/looting. Miners will profit since their efficiency is compensated and the demand will less be filled by loot/salvage. So in the end, the afk-miner profits. This is not a high/low/null thing, but a general change. I don't get what positive this part of the change does. It basically rewards afk-gaming.
In my first post I suggested the possibility of increasing the minerals in the meta items to more closely approximate the tier 1 items. The refining change would allow CCP to make that change. I have not seen anything which implies that CCP is specifically aiming at reducing the minerals from salvage loot. The reduction in minerals may be a happy result according to some. The percentage of reduction appears open to change at this point.
On the other hand you are not looking at any of the benefits of this change. This change will make refining more than "go to a 50% station with these skills and reputation". The change adds a variety of choices all of which have some benefits. This will allow a number of specialized player options adding to a players options in EVE. Since there is specialization choices, a player can choose to do something specific for a larger group or profit as an individual doing one step. I have suggested before that this provides another profitable role for high sec mining corporations, allowing more social interaction in that realm. Few people have the skills needed for the best refining, which puts currently new players in a more equal position vis-a-vis older players.
I am a bit saddened by the loss of salvaging incomes, but given the numerous other opportunities for even a new character I think this is reasonable. The currently mutable state of this change allows CCP to choose the full effect of the impact of the salvaging nerf by messing with meta item mineral composition. They could also do the same thing when they look at the extra minerals they have added to many ship production lines. I certainly do not see any reason to take a depressed, the world is ending, attitude. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
204
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Posted - 2014.03.20 21:34:00 -
[482] - Quote
Additionally, the size of asteroids in nullsec asteroid belts is misleading; these asteroids are at the size that they because they have spent YEARS being unmined, growing to their current sizes. These asteroids do not balloon to this size overnight; if you were to mine out the entire asteroid belt one day, you'd see a belt that looks eerily similar to highsec belts the next day. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Alp Khan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
12
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Posted - 2014.03.20 21:34:00 -
[483] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Alp Khan wrote:[quote=Malcanis]
I don't think that fixing null industry and not nerfing empire industry are really mutually exclusive. Null industry can be fixed without driving the empire industry to the ground. With the current state of manufacturing, I believe you are wrong on this point: Highsec has the costumers. Highsec has perfect refine. Highsec has more build options. Highsec has more safety. The only way you will encourage nullsec industry is to make it competitive with highsec industry. Highsec currently has all the conveniences you'd desire for industry, why would anyone produce in nullsec? The answer is profitability. You need to reward the effort and risks associated with operating in nullsec/lowsec with more profitable manufacturing. This won't eliminate highsec manufacturing from producing the majority of items in game, because (as demonstrated by many posts in this thread), players are generally lazy and are more than willing to sacrifice some profits for convenience.
Regarding customers, local production can be encouraged through more sensible means. Null was long due to be given a means of perfect refining, but I don't see the point of making perfect refining in empire a time sink in order to achieve that. Newbies spend their initial time and gain experience in empire, another time and effort sink regarding refining is only contribute to their stagnation of seeking further experiences elsewhere.
Seasoned players sometimes do really tend to forget how inaccessible some aspects to getting things done in EVE to young players.
Again, null can be easily given the same production availability and means as the empire.
And I do really disagree with you in empire being more safe. If anything, through a combination of illusion of safety and unpredictability, empire space is more chaotic in comparison to null, especially sov null.
We have solid intel networks, defense mechanisms and a guarantee that no player with blue standings can seek to harm you in null. On the contrary, in the empire, if you are mining, you can be ganked easily. Only thing you can do to prevent that is to seek a backwater system to mine in and slightly fit your hulls to be more tanky to require gankers to bring in more numbers. Same goes for missioners.
Of course I haven't really added the extortion schemes and awoxing to the issues that empire dwellers are facing.
This also explains why parts of this change cannot be objectively encouraging social interactions in empire. Rather, it encourages players to create more alts.
Can anyone really claim that risks inherent in adding POS setups to small time mining outfits in empire (because they will not be able to refine efficiently anymore unless they sink their training time into PERFECTING ALL the ore specific refining skills in addition to the current requirements of attaining perfect faction standings and training baseline refining skills to V) will result in more social interactions? Rather, it will be a hilarious mixture of awoxing, ganking, industrial corporation harrasment and failure on part of new players. Additionally, think about the lack of clear moons in empire that POS setups can be dropped on and the necessity of very high faction standings you need to place a POS in empire space.
This is why I think this change only benefits CCP's wallet. More time spent training time sink skills is more money they make. And they don't even realize that they will be alienating prospective players away from the game by making things difficult in empire.
Really, ask yourselves. Are pushing away new players and forcing existing player base to create even more alts and/or sink more time into very specific skills that have an effect on the greater picture of the New Eden really the best practices that CCP can come up with to increase their revenue?
Lastly, we who live in null sometimes have the tendency to forget that we need new players living in empire, expanding their involvement in EVE for us to thrive as well. |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
483
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Posted - 2014.03.20 21:34:00 -
[484] - Quote
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:Sany Saccante wrote:Any chance to add mineral compression?
It could solve problem with moving minerals to null. I get a feeling part of this change is to encourage local industry in null sec blocs. What is happening right now is that there are insanely huge power blocks that have 90% of their production in high sec or are relying on imported minerals to build stuff locally. Entire Titan fleets being built with minerals that were mined in a 1.0 system while the rock fields in the systems the Titans are being built are untouched. Does that make sense? No it doesn't. As such, mineral compression as a mechanic is probably being left out very much on purpose. Just like loot reprocessing is being nerfed to **** for the same reason. This is indeed the problem. So why can't the null sec power blocks HTFU and provide security for a mining operation in their systems?
Because (and I'm saying this as a miner) mining is boring as f*ck and guarding miners is boring as 10 f*cks. Any PVPer that is on guard duty is one less PVPer available on the battlefront.
The bigger problem seems to be though that null sec blocs don't like taking in industrial corporations. I've had my time in null sec and I've always noticed that the industrial corporations that did make it into an alliance were frowned upon by other corps. There are plenty of large industrial corps that could easily take over a large part of the external production and mining locally, if only they were accepted as part of a healthy sov holding entity. I'm not entirely sure what the reasoning behind this is though. Maybe it has something to do with maximum numbers allowed in alliance or something. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Raquel Smith
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
44
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Posted - 2014.03.20 21:38:00 -
[485] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Raquel Smith wrote: CCP is touching a part of the game which is sacred: perfect processing;
you need to get out more Any suggestions? |
GreasyCarl Semah
A Game as Old as Empire
55
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:38:00 -
[486] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:GreasyCarl Semah wrote:So why can't the null sec power blocks HTFU and provide security for a mining operation in their systems? Or is it easier just to elect one of your ranks to the CSM and have that person fly to Iceland to cry all over the conference room table until you get what you want? Yeah I think we get that you are super-jelly of nullsec. That's cool. (Not really.) I spend my time hanging out in hi-sec as well, so I can kinda see where you are coming from. (Again, not really.) But you gotta remember that industrialist in null have ALOT more risks than empire-dwellers. Let's just ignore the fact that being an industrialist in null is currently rather pointless (other than supercap production obviously). It's stupid, but they are still there. And even with all their scout info channels and other nullsec silliness they still have a huge risk - the fact that at anytime somebody can come along and take their POSes, their stations, and their space. All their stuff? Locked away. Never to be seen again. So yeah, they do deserve a few benefits for that risk.
And they already have those benefits. I have produced a huge amount of stuff in null sec so hump someone else's leg.
Industry out there doesn't need a buff beyond maybe making low grade minerals more available. If you can't make things out there then you are just lazy and no amount of CCP changes will change that. |
Krom Thomson
Dark Neutron Star Metatron Inc. Alliance
7
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Posted - 2014.03.20 21:39:00 -
[487] - Quote
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:baltec1 wrote:Krom Thomson wrote: you do get more reward you guys get the better rocks and bigger rocks
Refining is 100% and most rocks can be found in high sec in large quantities where they can be mined in near perfect safety. Null has nothing to offer in terms of mining or processing those minerals. More lies. Anomalies in high sec are mined out very quickly. There is system after system of belts in null sec with great ore that you guys can't seem to figure out how to take safely. Either that or you are too lazy to take it.
oh yes that veldspar and scordite vary valuable so then the gigantic ore site you guys get in your mining systems in null are utterly worthless and all that merc and a morphite just **** rocks |
Alp Khan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
12
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:39:00 -
[488] - Quote
Krom Thomson wrote:GreasyCarl Semah wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:Sany Saccante wrote:Any chance to add mineral compression?
It could solve problem with moving minerals to null. I get a feeling part of this change is to encourage local industry in null sec blocs. What is happening right now is that there are insanely huge power blocks that have 90% of their production in high sec or are relying on imported minerals to build stuff locally. Entire Titan fleets being built with minerals that were mined in a 1.0 system while the rock fields in the systems the Titans are being built are untouched. Does that make sense? No it doesn't. As such, mineral compression as a mechanic is probably being left out very much on purpose. Just like loot reprocessing is being nerfed to **** for the same reason. This is indeed the problem. So why can't the null sec power blocks HTFU and provide security for a mining operation in their systems? Or is it easier just to elect one of your ranks to the CSM and have that person fly to Iceland to cry all over the conference room table until you get what you want? CCP has always been a goonz bi tch they have always bent over backwards for them
Please dispense with your tin foil hat, this is not some Goon conspiracy. Being able to mine in our sov has never been a problem. Rather, the problem with mining in null sov is the inherent nightmare of logistics that's associated with carrying that ore and refining it efficiently (currently can only be done in empire). |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20171
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:39:00 -
[489] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Right, so this announcement is not a net nerf to high sec? No, it buffs it pretty significantly, bringing faster and better abilities than it ever had before. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
204
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:40:00 -
[490] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote: The bigger problem seems to be though that null sec blocs don't like taking in industrial corporations. I've had my time in null sec and I've always noticed that the industrial corporations that did make it into an alliance were frowned upon by other corps. There are plenty of large industrial corps that could easily take over a large part of the external production and mining locally, if only they were accepted as part of a healthy sov holding entity. I'm not entirely sure what the reasoning behind this is though. Maybe it has something to do with maximum numbers allowed in alliance or something.
You vastly overestimate the ability for nullsec production to fuel the fires of nullsec war. It is vastly more efficient in man-hours for a nullsec coalition to outsource the production of T1 hulls and T2 modules to Empire and move pre-built hulls from Empire to nullsec. A given corporation's membership is much more effective applying force through PvP activity than it is trickling in a pittance of ships and modules through local production.
Perhaps this change will shift the pendulum closer to what you'd like, but it remains to be seen. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
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Scyllyn
Dark Neutron Star Metatron Inc. Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:40:00 -
[491] - Quote
Fredric Wolf wrote:Do all the people in empire not realize that 78.2% refine after patch will be the same 100% refine they are currently getting? Empire isn't getting nerfed null is getting a slight buff.
Empire is not getting nerfed? True IF You have PERFECT Refining Skills AND PERFECT Standings AND the 4% Refining Implant
So an industry player will have to train Reprocessing to 5, Reprocessing Efficiency to 5 and waste a clone to have the 4% implant (which requires Cybernetics 5 to plug-in BTW) ......... OHHH AND grind missions for XYZ months after training Social to 5 and all the skills required to run missions just to get a 1.2% "buff"
I thought CCP was trying to attract more people to this game.....
How is a maximum refining yield of 72.4% supposed to be attractive to anyone let alone a beginner? Especially when it will now take months if not years of skill training and mission grinding to be able to get "decent" yield in 1 npc corporations stations.
I also notice the true minimum yield was never stated as the lowest yield quoted was for a character with Reprocessing 5 Reprocessing Efficiency 1 and PERFECT Standings...... |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
204
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Posted - 2014.03.20 21:42:00 -
[492] - Quote
Scyllyn wrote:Fredric Wolf wrote:Do all the people in empire not realize that 78.2% refine after patch will be the same 100% refine they are currently getting? Empire isn't getting nerfed null is getting a slight buff. Empire is not getting nerfed? True IF You have PERFECT Refining Skills AND PERFECT Standings AND the 4% Refining Implant So an industry player will have to train Reprocessing to 5, Reprocessing Efficiency to 5 and waste a clone to have the 4% implant (which requires Cybernetics 5 to plug-in BTW) ......... OHHH AND grind missions for XYZ months after training Social to 5 and all the skills required to run missions just to get a 1.2% "buff" I thought CCP was trying to attract more people to this game..... How is a maximum refining yield of 72.4% supposed to be attractive to anyone let alone a beginner? Especially when it will now take months if not years of skill training and mission grinding to be able to get "decent" yield in 1 npc corporations stations. I also notice the true minimum yield was never stated as the lowest yield quoted was for a character with Reprocessing 5 Reprocessing Efficiency 1 and PERFECT Standings...... "Perfect standings" means 6.67 corporation standings, the minimum required to reduce the "WE TAKE" portion of reprocessing to 0.00%. You can knock that out pretty quick with data center turnins and a cosmos blitz. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
189
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:42:00 -
[493] - Quote
"Refine" is better than "Reprocess" if you want to use the same word for each.
You can refine scrap metal. You can refine ore. Both sound fine.
You can reprocess scrap metal. Reprocessing raw ore sounds dumb.
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Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
357
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:42:00 -
[494] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: We gain nothing over mining the same stuff in high sec. Why would we not mine it in high sec?
This is ironically very true ..... assuming you will still be able haul hi sec compressed ore to your blue sec space depot. For game balance, this situation should be financially unattractive. Resource projection might even be considered one of the reasons why null sec is generally devoid of miners - resources should ideally be harvested locally.
I wonder if a restricted size ore bay might be added to jump freighters at some point?
Into PVP & looking for small gang focused, NPC Null corp? Check out The Nyan Cat Pirates!
Corp CEO looking for an easy going, none sov, PVP alliance? Join Disband. today! |
GreasyCarl Semah
A Game as Old as Empire
55
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:43:00 -
[495] - Quote
Alp Khan wrote:Please dispense with your tin foil hat, this is not some Goon conspiracy. Being able to mine in our sov has never been a problem. Rather, the problem with mining in null sov is the inherent nightmare of logistics that's associated with carrying that ore and refining it efficiently (currently can only be done in empire).
In other words, laziness. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
363
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:44:00 -
[496] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:It wasn't supposed to "fix" mining, it was supposed to make mining more viable.
Would you like to argue that it didn't?
Newsflash - Malcanis says mining wasn't viable. Things were not being built. Capsuleer society on the verge of collapse.
Weaselior wrote:a tier3 station is about 60b and can be taken away from you forever He said, hiding behind the Mittani's well starched skirt.
This change is excellent. Many tears. Much drama. No meaningful gameplay changes. Well done CCP Ytterbium! --- |
mkint
1067
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:44:00 -
[497] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:mkint wrote:There are no changes that can possibly be made to the game to bring industrialists to nullsec, because there will always be an us vs them. A budding industrialist who wants to move to nullsec has no place in an existing alliance there, because what he really wants is power. And power is horded in nullsec. It's what the entire meta game is about. It's what having CSM voting blocs is about. And it's a closed game to anyone who's not already a part of it. i'd just like to laugh again at the idea that if you want power what you should be is a highsec industrialist I'm not talking about myself. I'm talking about people. I'm talking about what it is they want out of the game, what their ambitions are.
The odd thing is, you in particular, and your alliance in general, are being the noisiest and least clever supporters of this change. No arguments, just noise. Noise does not make you right. You probably see as clearly as I do how this benefits the nullsec alliances.
This change will lead even further to nullsec stagnation. This change is bad for the game. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Anhenka
Daktaklakpak. Red Coat Conspiracy
400
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:44:00 -
[498] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote: This is indeed the problem. So why can't the null sec power blocks HTFU and provide security for a mining operation in their systems?
Because (and I'm saying this as a miner) mining is boring as f*ck and guarding miners is boring as 10 f*cks. Any PVPer that is on guard duty is one less PVPer available on the battlefront.
The bigger problem seems to be though that null sec blocs don't like taking in industrial corporations. I've had my time in null sec and I've always noticed that the industrial corporations that did make it into an alliance were frowned upon by other corps. There are plenty of large industrial corps that could easily take over a large part of the external production and mining locally, if only they were accepted as part of a healthy sov holding entity. I'm not entirely sure what the reasoning behind this is though. Maybe it has something to do with maximum numbers allowed in alliance or something.[/quote]
Not really. It's that once you let them in, they start getting ideas that they are important, or that they are a necessary part of the alliance and need to be treated as such, and that every time a small gang goes through all the PvPr's should suit up to go protect the miners from the evil roamers.
And fairly soon you have an alliance where half is industry and ratters, and half is PvP, and the Indy half seems to think that they have an equal right to decide the actions of the alliance as the PvP people.
When the PvP can just source everything from highsec at the same price or cheaper, using about 1% the time and effort that the miners require to produce the same thing.
TLDR: Miners and indy guys are not needed. And they certainly don't contribute enough to make paying attention to their issues worth the time. They might not like it, but there ARE second class citizens. An entire corp or miners and producers can be replaced by a couple people who make a JF run a couple times a week.
So if they want to come out and mine, sure, there are alliances that will allow that. But if the alliance for the most part ignores their woes and expects them to contribute in isk or minerals, then that's the way it's going to happen, since they are completely unnecessary. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3736
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:44:00 -
[499] - Quote
PsychoBitch wrote:YOU PEOPLE ARE OUT OF YOUR ****ING MINDS.
High sec should have the highest reprocessing, it is the most civiled and technologically supreme area which has the benefits of high sec empires making things better.
Null sec has outpost which are the equal to an outhouse to modern worldsindoor toilets. You get garbage refine because it is grindfest and they don't have access to they high sec tech.
I don't mind a change to make perfect refine skills in high sec with standing 100%
I do mind making something that is a temp structure better then high sec.
Will we be refunded the time used improve the compression BPO's?
GET YOU HEAD OUT OF YOUR ***!
I think you greatly misunderstand the nature of bureaucracy!
Highsec bureaucrats would demand union wages for the reprocessors, strict environmental regulations to ensure healthy populations, as well as high taxes to pay for the "safety".
Nullsec is more second world, where you can pay sweatshop wages, mangle the environment in the name of efficiency, and other scorched earth policies.
Highsec vs Nullsec ins't like Germany vs Columbia. It is much more akin to the U.S. vs China, where both sides have plenty of technology and resources, they just have very different guidelines on how to uitlize it!
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
204
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:46:00 -
[500] - Quote
mkint wrote:Weaselior wrote:mkint wrote:There are no changes that can possibly be made to the game to bring industrialists to nullsec, because there will always be an us vs them. A budding industrialist who wants to move to nullsec has no place in an existing alliance there, because what he really wants is power. And power is horded in nullsec. It's what the entire meta game is about. It's what having CSM voting blocs is about. And it's a closed game to anyone who's not already a part of it. i'd just like to laugh again at the idea that if you want power what you should be is a highsec industrialist I'm not talking about myself. I'm talking about people. I'm talking about what it is they want out of the game, what their ambitions are. The odd thing is, you in particular, and your alliance in general, are being the noisiest and least clever supporters of this change. No arguments, just noise. Noise does not make you right. You probably see as clearly as I do how this benefits the nullsec alliances. This change will lead even further to nullsec stagnation. This change is bad for the game. Man, I really should get into the "Jump to Conclusions" mat business. I'd be raking it in here in this thread.
Also, duh, this benefits nullsec. You're not revealing some great hidden truth here. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
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Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
363
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:47:00 -
[501] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Nullsec is more second world, where you can pay sweatshop wages, mangle the environment in the name of efficiency, and other scorched earth policies. Someone has never been to nullsec.
Also, LOL SECOND WORLD, GSF is paying 200% peacetime srp. Real second world.
--- |
Aleq Alexandrea
Playboy Enterprises Dark Taboo
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:47:00 -
[502] - Quote
This will also kill starters profits.
It was very unprofitable to manifacture stuff as a starter. Now it will be even worse...
All of the minerals will start to dry-up and there will be nothing but ores in high sec. Mineral prices will go up like mad and all of the industrials specially new characters will start to loose money in high sec.
You have to do bunch of stuff to take your old profit again within low&null sec with the propability to loose all of the tings u carry
CCP, i wonder why we pay you money to work like slaves to get some fun from a game?
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
204
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Posted - 2014.03.20 21:49:00 -
[503] - Quote
Aleq Alexandrea wrote:This will also kill starters profits.
It was very unprofitable to manifacture stuff as a starter. Now it will be even worse...
All of the minerals will start to dry-up and there will be nothing but ores in high sec. Mineral prices will go up like mad and all of the industrials specially new characters will start to loose money in high sec.
You have to do bunch of stuff to take your old profit again within low&null sec with the propability to loose all of the tings u carry
CCP, i wonder why we pay you money to work like slaves to get some fun from a game?
No.
One refiner is all it takes to convert the entirety of all ore generated ever into minerals. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Krom Thomson
Dark Neutron Star Metatron Inc. Alliance
7
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Posted - 2014.03.20 21:50:00 -
[504] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Krom Thomson wrote:
CCP has always been a goonz bi tch they have always bent over backwards for them
Yep, that's why the nerfed tech moons which we mostly controlled.
oh ya they totally nurfed your moonz if you know tec was the only type of moon all they did was switched what moons did what and it took you guys a whole of what 15 week to take all the new good moons ***** plz i'm ex cfc got tired of your anti indy policies |
Vanessa Vansen
Black Hole Squadron
68
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:52:00 -
[505] - Quote
At least the reprocessing implant (slot 8) does not compete with the already competing ore mining and ice harvesting implants (slot 10).
The numbers ... consider this? Station Equipment 50% Refining 5 Refining Efficiency 5 Ore Processing 4 No implant
This is provides access to T2 crystals, i.e. maximal mining and a perfect refining rate (given the standing).
Current refinement: Station Equipment + 0.375 x (1 + Refining skill x 0.02) x (1 + Refining Efficiency skill x 0.04) x (1 + Ore Processing skill x 0.05) .5 + 0.375 * 1.1 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 1.094
New refinement: Station Equipment x (1 + Refining skill x 0.03) x (1 + Refining Efficiency skill x 0.02) x (1 + Ore Processing skill x 0.02) ) .5*1.15*1.1*1.08=0.6831
Basically that's 31.69% less than before. With the adjustment (* 1.381) you end up with 94.3%
That is the income of quite decent miners will drop by 5.7% ... How would you feel if your boss would tell you that he is going to cut your wage by that amount?
I'm quite glad I stopped mining! |
Skrizzy
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:52:00 -
[506] - Quote
Are the changes buffing the isk possible to made in null? Its only large/strong alliances gaining from that. Soon they got all access to the goodies and not even need to get it in to sec space to transform it into nice isk. Doing it out there where all the goodies are shold have huge drawbacks... If you really want to make this game into a one side versus the other you should do the changes... |
Alp Khan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
12
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Posted - 2014.03.20 21:52:00 -
[507] - Quote
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:Alp Khan wrote:Please dispense with your tin foil hat, this is not some Goon conspiracy. Being able to mine in our sov has never been a problem. Rather, the problem with mining in null sov is the inherent nightmare of logistics that's associated with carrying that ore and refining it efficiently (currently can only be done in empire). In other words, laziness.
No.
Rather it takes too much time and effort to be even remotely profitable. I can, for instance go kills rats in null anomalies in the same time that takes for me to mine, carry the ore to the empire where I can refine it efficiently and make more ISK.
And CCP has come up with a hilariously unwise 'fix' to that by choosing to capitalize on this problem by making refining a bigger time sink then it was before, equally in empire and in null.
Do you really think this will effect any serious null dweller negatively? Because your average null dweller in a good organization can make ISK more easily than pretty much anybody else, and I don't know many seasoned null dwellers that only keep a single character. Most, if not all, have an army of alts. |
Qalix
Long Jump.
184
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Posted - 2014.03.20 21:53:00 -
[508] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:GreasyCarl Semah wrote:Malcanis wrote:Using maths, can you explain how to make refining in nullsec better than trivially available 100% refines in free, invulnerable NPC station in hi-sec? Why should refining in nullsec be better than anywhere else? Nullsec already has better: Ratting, Rocks, Anomalies, Missions, PI, etc, etc. I'm not real sure how anyone can say that risk out there isn't rewarded. So miners and re-processors shouldn't be rewarded for taking more risk? What additional risks are they taking? As you are so fond of reminding everyone (and your corp in particular is fond of reminding everyone) hisec isn't safe. Every hisec miner is dealing with the same issues a nosec miner is dealing with. Only with far less protection, anonymity, and seclusion.
The risk/reward line doesn't work with everything. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
204
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Posted - 2014.03.20 21:55:00 -
[509] - Quote
Vanessa Vansen wrote:At least the reprocessing implant (slot 8) does not compete with the already competing ore mining and ice harvesting implants (slot 10).
The numbers ... consider this? Station Equipment 50% Refining 5 Refining Efficiency 5 Ore Processing 4 No implant
Part of the change is to provide a reason to train the individual ore skill to 5. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Kadl
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
88
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Posted - 2014.03.20 21:55:00 -
[510] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Nullsec is more second world, where you can pay sweatshop wages, mangle the environment in the name of efficiency, and other scorched earth policies. Someone has never been to nullsec. Also, LOL SECOND WORLD, GSF is paying 200% peacetime srp. Real second world.
Agony held sov.
There are great profits to be made in forcing your slaves/non-unionized labor to work harder for their capsular overlords. |
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