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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
283
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Posted - 2014.04.14 21:43:00 -
[2011] - Quote
Tellana Faa wrote:So for regular veldspar as an example ... batch of 100 = 415 trit according to new chart... if we can only get 72.4% (300 units) out of it... what's the point of showing 415 if we're never gunna get that? Are there going to be additional skills so we can keep the 115 or is it just gunna be lost? It's just going to be lost. Under the new system, the 415 number will NEVER be obtainable. You can get closer to this number by using superior facilities, but it will never hit that number.
If that offends you for some reason, I don't really know what to say. It's just a number. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Tellana Faa
Advanced Excavators Inc.
0
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Posted - 2014.04.14 21:51:00 -
[2012] - Quote
Just seems stupid that ccp would redo the quantities to numbers we'll never be able to get with max skills & max facilities |
Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
184
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Posted - 2014.04.14 21:53:00 -
[2013] - Quote
that's the point of this change. CCP found that it was sort of stupid to achieve 100 %. We got comfortable with this but it has changed. Now the number is just the quantity that's used to calculated what you actually receive. EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
283
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Posted - 2014.04.14 22:57:00 -
[2014] - Quote
Tellana Faa wrote:Just seems stupid that ccp would redo the quantities to numbers we'll never be able to get with max skills & max facilities It's not stupid -- it's actually pretty smart. Doing this buys them the ability to increase the total maximum yield from ore and ice without having to do a bunch of extra crap every time they wanna do it. The only cost is if you are, for some weird, unknown reason, offended because you can't reach 100%. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Janna Sway
GeoCorp. Curatores Veritatis Alliance
116
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Posted - 2014.04.14 23:16:00 -
[2015] - Quote
Very interesting thread to read.
Most of the things mentioned here I hardly understand because I am no industrialist in Eve.
However, I welcome the upcoming changes in general even though I cannot comprehend what consequences they will have on my Eve-life. I welcome the changes because changes keep the system in a flow, like a living water stream, a river. While we all strife "balance" in the system to make things "fair", may I also mention that "total balance" would somewhat destroy the system, make the water stagnate, start to foul and metaphorically kill the flora and fauna of the river, literally kill the fishes, i.e. us.
While the upcoming changes will balance some currently problematic issues, they will however bring imbalance to some other areas, some predictable and some unpredictable.
Good luck to everybody. |
Xaniff
The Redneck Gun Club Grumpy Oldmen
5
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Posted - 2014.04.15 12:41:00 -
[2016] - Quote
I don't reprocess anything T2 right now, so I might be wrong.. but if the current system now is to reprocess a T2 item and receive only the base materials for it (e.g. any minerals and moon materials), that should continue to be the case. Reprocessing should not yield any intermediate components (such as the intermediate manufacturing goods) as that can limit my own usefulness as one that can produce those intermediate goods and populate the market with them. There should be no point at all to having those recycling icons on the output window.
Of course, if the current system yields these intermediate goods too, I think it should be changed to only produce the absolute rawest materials when anything is reprocessed for the reasons above. |
Blake Bathana
Avalon Mining and Production Corporation
8
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Posted - 2014.04.15 14:04:00 -
[2017] - Quote
Sorry if this has been mentioned before but, why can't there be a Hi-Sec version of the Rorqual where jump and vat capabilities are disabled I would buy the Rorqual straight away OR give the Orca ore compression capabilities.
Just a suggestion!! |
Filigor
BioLith Industries
0
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Posted - 2014.04.15 14:51:00 -
[2018] - Quote
Ashla Boga wrote:"Keep Calm and Carry On"?
Damn it CCP. You're trying to kill the profit of hundreds of salvagers and hundreds of missioners just revolving around Pro Synergy alone. One corp. You're screwing with things that are just going to backfire and increase botting. Everyone wants more bots, right?
You killed drone poo which was a huge spike through the heart of the salvaging community, and gave us bounties on drones instead, which I agree missioners were in love with (despite salvagers losing a lot of profit). Then you removed Meta 0 modules from rat droppings because there was too many minerals in your eyes. Now this.
"Calm down, Mr Director of Salvage Corp Person, it's just a game." Hell no. I'm fired up and pissed off because you're going to decrease profits of new and veteran players salvaging and their missioner friends by obscene amounts with not even the slightest compensation. Even with Scrapmetal V and a 4% implant the yields are going to be crap. Rig changes have done almost nothing to increase profits from the salvaging profession, and behind every Noctis is a real live player. Not a program.
You say you want to reward players who specialize in a career, and ore miners and ice miners are going to be unaffected by this. But module reprocessors like myself and a dozen other faithful admins of the corp have absolutely NO POSSIBLE WAY to get even remotely close to 100% yield. Even if you added an Advanced Scrapmetal Reprocessing we'd still be far off. That's not helping a specialized player, it's slapping them in the F***ing face. Our admins have trained OVER a month of skills to be the best at what they do for their customers, but not that will all be way more than wasted. Ore miners didn't have to go anywhere near this kind of training to be 100%. Dig a little deeper before you go killing professions off, CCP.
It's true. Indeed all of them are real players who do monotonous work every day. CCP, please, fair rules for all!
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Jed Clampett
The Order Of Viision
17
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Posted - 2014.04.16 13:40:00 -
[2019] - Quote
So basically CCP has heard the cry that there is not enough PVP or variety in PVP
-- thus a 55% recycling cap will highly encourage players to go ahead & lose those older hulls in combat
-- and just because you got old hulls to lose in combat does not mean you want to lose a complete T2 fitting so CCP may have a partial solution for the growing glut of meta 3-4 from newer loot tables (that is other than blind recycling)
all of which may encourage people like myself who would otherwise never poke their heads into lo sec to go on a roam
the presence of such "beater" ship roams might improve the lo sec PVP learning experience
in that elite fleets might not dominate encounter statics so much. You might run into ships you have a chance against. Individual losses might not be so steep if PVP newbies are not pressured into full T2 fits of the biggest ship they can fly.
IF it all works out that way of course. EVE pilots tend to be a bit perverse at times vs expectations and altruism. |
Jed Clampett
The Order Of Viision
17
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Posted - 2014.04.16 15:56:00 -
[2020] - Quote
Hachi Ironfist wrote:I am a bit confused by this quote: Quote:Yes, we are going to reduce reprocessing efficiency down by quite a bit, but we are going to keep mining efficiency the same as it is right now by increasing minerals gained from reprocessing ices and ores. So what they are saying now is that they will increase the amount you get when refining and increase the waste amount as well. Basically after the patch you will get 70ish% yield but around the same amount of minerals ? Or did I read that wrong?
Yes you did. 70%ish yields in high sec.
Because the new CCP storyline goes that all the most cutting edge technologies and most comprehensive industrial development is naturally on the frontier and wilderness areas and not in rich established highly settled areas (which only have run down old factories) .
[Sounds a little like virtual Icelandic wish fulfillment that all the best stuff would be reserved for people on the edge of civilized areas. Just saying what's obvious. :) ]
In any case this is why every one will move to null. Because only player built or captured facilities will have the best refine rates etc.
Moving to NULL would be no big deal if there was not high sec safety for non-rookies. So personally I think CCP could cut to the chase scene by declaring CONCORD parts shortages (exhausted cream of ancient salvage or price inflation). Thus CONCORD shrinks to protect only rookie ship mini-constellations which due to "population pressure" must kick your toons out at 900K SP or 3 months age (anyone older gets shot by CONCORD). Thus we would have lo sec conditions every where in Empire once you are not rookie status. |
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Axe Coldon
Coldon Enterprises Axion Bionics
16
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Posted - 2014.04.16 18:49:00 -
[2021] - Quote
Plug in Baby wrote:Am I correct in thinking the vast majority of Capital manufacture will essentially be stopped by this?
I'm interested to know what % of capitals produced are made from reprocessed ores, I can imagine its pretty massive.
I don't think it will effect capitals. Way I understood it they will be increasing the compression ratio when you compress ores. So I for see people hauling around compressed ore to make capitals instead of guns/reprocess.
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Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Brothers of Tangra
43
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Posted - 2014.04.16 20:18:00 -
[2022] - Quote
Axe Coldon wrote:Plug in Baby wrote:Am I correct in thinking the vast majority of Capital manufacture will essentially be stopped by this?
I'm interested to know what % of capitals produced are made from reprocessed ores, I can imagine its pretty massive. I don't think it will effect capitals. Way I understood it they will be increasing the compression ratio when you compress ores. So I for see people hauling around compressed ore to make capitals instead of guns/reprocess.
But if I've read it right you cant compress in a station, therefore you have to freighter the Ore to a POS/Rorqual
An example we have looked at (pretty sure we got our numbers right) is building a Titan to buy the Veldspar to meet the Trit requirements alone would need circa 400 freighters to move to compress. Granted its the extreme but even between a station and a POS in the same system thats just not realistic.
A big issue with both low and null is you cant get the low end ores in sufficient abundance to do anything significantly useful thats why compression started.
I still think it would be easier just to allow compression of minerals. If its and issue of triggering mass super production just increase the mineral costs 10 or 100 fold instead. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
630
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Posted - 2014.04.16 20:46:00 -
[2023] - Quote
Rainus Max wrote:Axe Coldon wrote:Plug in Baby wrote:Am I correct in thinking the vast majority of Capital manufacture will essentially be stopped by this?
I'm interested to know what % of capitals produced are made from reprocessed ores, I can imagine its pretty massive. I don't think it will effect capitals. Way I understood it they will be increasing the compression ratio when you compress ores. So I for see people hauling around compressed ore to make capitals instead of guns/reprocess. But if I've read it right you cant compress in a station, therefore you have to freighter the Ore to a POS/Rorqual An example we have looked at (pretty sure we got our numbers right) is building a Titan to buy the Veldspar to meet the Trit requirements alone would need circa 400 freighters to move to compress. Granted its the extreme but even between a station and a POS in the same system thats just not realistic. A big issue with both low and null is you cant get the low end ores in sufficient abundance to do anything significantly useful thats why compression started. I still think it would be easier just to allow compression of minerals. If its and issue of triggering mass super production just increase the mineral costs 10 or 100 fold instead.
The person you quoted is correct. You can't get enough low-end ores because the mineral content is simply far lower in volume than the ore itself. So miners would refine the ore at station and then ship it to market. Cap builders would then buy the mins, ship it, produce guns, ship those, reprocess those, and then build caps.
The new process will be that miners will compress the ore at a POS, and then ship it to market, where builders will buy it, ship it to a refinery, refine, and then use the mins to build.
The same demand will still be there. It is just going to shift from minerals to compressed ore.
Coming soon... |
Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Brothers of Tangra
43
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Posted - 2014.04.16 21:14:00 -
[2024] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Rainus Max wrote:Axe Coldon wrote:Plug in Baby wrote:Am I correct in thinking the vast majority of Capital manufacture will essentially be stopped by this?
I'm interested to know what % of capitals produced are made from reprocessed ores, I can imagine its pretty massive. I don't think it will effect capitals. Way I understood it they will be increasing the compression ratio when you compress ores. So I for see people hauling around compressed ore to make capitals instead of guns/reprocess. But if I've read it right you cant compress in a station, therefore you have to freighter the Ore to a POS/Rorqual An example we have looked at (pretty sure we got our numbers right) is building a Titan to buy the Veldspar to meet the Trit requirements alone would need circa 400 freighters to move to compress. Granted its the extreme but even between a station and a POS in the same system thats just not realistic. A big issue with both low and null is you cant get the low end ores in sufficient abundance to do anything significantly useful thats why compression started. I still think it would be easier just to allow compression of minerals. If its and issue of triggering mass super production just increase the mineral costs 10 or 100 fold instead. The person you quoted is correct. You can't get enough low-end ores because the mineral content is simply far lower in volume than the ore itself. So miners would refine the ore at station and then ship it to market. Cap builders would then buy the mins, ship it, produce guns, ship those, reprocess those, and then build caps. The new process will be that miners will compress the ore at a POS, and then ship it to market, where builders will buy it, ship it to a refinery, refine, and then use the mins to build. The same demand will still be there. It is just going to shift from minerals to compressed ore.
Aye I dont expect supply to change and its not a ore quantity issue, like you say the market will simply shift towards unprocessed ores. The problem the sheer amount of hauling - if I need to replace 10 carriers or a titan I've lost then I have to do a butt load of transporting from the station I buy/mine at to a POS array /Rorq before I can compress and ship off to low/null sec for manufacture. In the case of the titan we're potentially talking 400 runs in a freighter for the trit alone.
I know some people in the game will love hauling but if our numbers are right CCP better start including Sarum Straight Jackets in the online store. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3863
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Posted - 2014.04.17 05:55:00 -
[2025] - Quote
I have a moderate stockpile of DronePoo, which I realize is somewhat legacy as drone poo only drops from drone structures now.
Like alchemy products, the only reprocessing skill that effects their output is scrapmetal processing.
What are the chances you will adjust their "Refine rates" of drone poo to compensate for the changes to refining? |
WOHEHIV
outer space pirates Interstellar Confederation
3
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Posted - 2014.04.17 09:53:00 -
[2026] - Quote
and dont forget to add recyclability to the Elite Drone AI ... |
Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
188
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Posted - 2014.04.17 10:03:00 -
[2027] - Quote
Somewhere up this thread there's a graph that shows the values of Minerals by source. It's from 2008, though. A more current breakdown to show how many of the minerals in game came from:
- ore refining
- non-ore reprocessing
- hauler spawn loot
Would help in finding how much impact the module reprocessing nerf will actually have. Players certainly can't calculate those numbers. But I'm fairly certain that CCP can. Does CCP want to show those numbers? EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3081
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Posted - 2014.04.17 11:23:00 -
[2028] - Quote
Darkblad wrote:Somewhere up this thread there's a graph that shows the values of Minerals by source. It's from 2008, though. A more current breakdown to show how many of the minerals in game came from:
- ore refining
- non-ore reprocessing
- hauler spawn loot
Would help in finding how much impact the module reprocessing nerf will actually have. Players certainly can't calculate those numbers. But I'm fairly certain that CCP can. Does CCP want to show those numbers?
The biggest problem I can see with that is:
How many of the modules were produced purely for compression.
I guess you could restrict it to meta items (as no T1 item drops now, except ammo) Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
188
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Posted - 2014.04.17 11:42:00 -
[2029] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The biggest problem I can see with that is:
How many of the modules were produced purely for compression.
I guess you could restrict it to meta items (as no T1 item drops now, except ammo)
Good point, Meta =/= 1-4 should be left out (or separated). EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS type X
144
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Posted - 2014.04.17 22:03:00 -
[2030] - Quote
If the intention is to have 'dedicated' or whatever term you used reprocessing pilots then please refund us all our reprocessing skill points so we can make a dedicated alt to do reprocessing. Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really. |
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
404
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Posted - 2014.04.17 22:09:00 -
[2031] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:If the intention is to have 'dedicated' or whatever term you used reprocessing pilots then please refund us all our reprocessing skill points so we can make a dedicated alt to do reprocessing. The skills have other uses; to wit, mining crystals. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS type X
144
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Posted - 2014.04.17 22:39:00 -
[2032] - Quote
Querns wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote:If the intention is to have 'dedicated' or whatever term you used reprocessing pilots then please refund us all our reprocessing skill points so we can make a dedicated alt to do reprocessing. The skills have other uses; to wit, mining crystals.
I never claimed that the skills were useless, I made a skill plan based on achieving 100% refine with both scrap and ore and now to reach that same level im going to need to make an alt to do it. And even with a dedicated alt im still not going to reach my previous levels but at least it will be as close as i can get. Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really. |
Goggles Deudigren
Hejaz Industries Executive Outcomes
3
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Posted - 2014.04.18 15:07:00 -
[2033] - Quote
This may have been said elsewhere in this huge thread, but please make ore/ice compression in the rorq easier to do. right now it's just a chore. What would be nice is to change it from a batch process to a continuous process, set a max number of BPs in the Rorq hold and when the core is running it automatically takes the matching ore/ice from the ore hold in a minimum qty ( still kinda batchy, I admit) and just processes it and places the compressed ore/ice back in the ore hold. |
Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
188
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Posted - 2014.04.18 15:18:00 -
[2034] - Quote
Goggles Deudigren wrote:This may have been said elsewhere in this huge thread, but please make ore/ice compression in the rorq easier to do. right now it's just a chore. What would be nice is to change it from a batch process to a continuous process, set a max number of BPs in the Rorq hold and when the core is running it automatically takes the matching ore/ice from the ore hold in a minimum qty ( still kinda batchy, I admit) and just processes it and places the compressed ore/ice back in the ore hold. Summer: right click a batch (100 units of an ore), compress, done. EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
Goggles Deudigren
Hejaz Industries Executive Outcomes
3
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Posted - 2014.04.18 15:27:00 -
[2035] - Quote
Darkblad wrote:Goggles Deudigren wrote:This may have been said elsewhere in this huge thread, but please make ore/ice compression in the rorq easier to do. right now it's just a chore. What would be nice is to change it from a batch process to a continuous process, set a max number of BPs in the Rorq hold and when the core is running it automatically takes the matching ore/ice from the ore hold in a minimum qty ( still kinda batchy, I admit) and just processes it and places the compressed ore/ice back in the ore hold. Summer: right click a batch (100 units of an ore), compress, done.
damn and I remember reading that now.... duh! thx |
Nlex
Domini Canium
30
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Posted - 2014.04.18 21:28:00 -
[2036] - Quote
Name of this thread and this devblog reads rather funny now, in an ironic way. Reprocessing all the things before the nerf hits, heh. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
728
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Posted - 2014.04.19 02:20:00 -
[2037] - Quote
no biggie, you just sell everything afterwards lol be nice if they refunded all the SP for the reprocessing skills theyll be making useless to most ppl tho
Nlex wrote:Name of this thread and this devblog reads rather funny now, in an ironic way. Reprocessing all the things before the nerf hits, heh.
me too lol And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
Rashnu Gorbani
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2014.04.21 14:08:00 -
[2038] - Quote
I'm really curious what will the outcome be, but for the time being the most profitable would probably be unsubbing the extra accounts I used for industry, there's no way the masses could compete with the power blocks. I guess more $$ into the top RMTers pockets... remember null sec is mostly ruled by pyramids with a couple guys on top. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
413
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Posted - 2014.04.21 18:29:00 -
[2039] - Quote
Rashnu Gorbani wrote:I'm really curious what will the outcome be, but for the time being the most profitable would probably be unsubbing the extra accounts I used for industry, there's no way the masses could compete with the power blocks. I guess more $$ into the top RMTers pockets... remember null sec is mostly ruled by pyramids with a couple guys on top. But enough about BNI.
*rimshot* This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
638
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Posted - 2014.04.22 15:47:00 -
[2040] - Quote
Querns wrote:Rashnu Gorbani wrote:I'm really curious what will the outcome be, but for the time being the most profitable would probably be unsubbing the extra accounts I used for industry, there's no way the masses could compete with the power blocks. I guess more $$ into the top RMTers pockets... remember null sec is mostly ruled by pyramids with a couple guys on top. But enough about BNI. *rimshot*
Oh, lord....
Pot and kettle in a tree; Both including irony. GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥
-Grath Telkin, 2014. |
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