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Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
390
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:06:00 -
[481] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:It is irrational to claim that the base mineral value of all non-ice/ore items in the entire game is NOT reduced by the change, when the change explicitly and absolutely reduces the base mineral yield from those very same items. So there goes that argument out the window. How is it? The base REPROCESS value will be different, sure. But since most items aren't at all based on that value, it will have no real effect on the market. All manufactured items will still be measured by their manufacture input for example, and the others will be based on demand. So no, I'd avoid the use of the word "All" there and I'd probably avoid words like "most" or "many" too.
Its a roughly 30% reduction to base reprocessing amount. The most you can get at max is 55% of the value of minerals in an item. So yes it will affect ALL items that can be reprocessed.
It is a direct nerf to reprocessing. I suggest you go read the dev blog again.
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:It is also irrational to waste time on bringing trash to market after this change. So there goes that argument out the window. Why? You're already bringing all the other loot to the market. Are you really going to sit in space and avoid looting all of the meta 1-3s? No. You'll still bring it in, just that portion of your income will be reduced. And in the lifecycle of a mission, that's a very small subset of income.
Its not hard.
Drop MTU Sort by Value take anything worth your time scoop MTU back to cargo leave the rest. Not sure how intense you think looting is. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2685
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:07:00 -
[482] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote:Zifrian wrote:Does this also nerf null sec anom runners? Since they lose out on the same loot reprocessing? Where's their rage? Did I miss it? Most of the people complaining are in highsec, and have little, if no, actual understanding of how this change affects them. Most of them don't even realise that in 6months it will be a net buff to if they adapted, but will instead just scream and cry and wail because understanding things is too hard. Remember: this is basically the echo chamber of "no but the minerals I mine are free" crowd. There is no net buff to reprocessing changes. it is a drastic nerf. But spin it however you want. As for Mining processes yes, if done properly HS folks should see about a 10% increase compared to current profits. But no scrap reprocessing is getting a massive nerf numbers don't lie and 30%+ is a big step back. No amount of koolaid can make that turn into a buff friend. It's not that big a step, especially when you take into account that MTUs increased the efficiency of gathering that very same loot. You can now just dump an MTU and go back later to scoop the loot. That's far more efficient than a lone tractor beam or flying between wrecks. And again, it only affects junk loot, not marketable loot, not salvage, not bounties or rewards or LP. So it's not the blanket nerf that most people seem to be complaining about.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2685
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:08:00 -
[483] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:It is irrational to claim that the base mineral value of all non-ice/ore items in the entire game is NOT reduced by the change, when the change explicitly and absolutely reduces the base mineral yield from those very same items. So there goes that argument out the window. How is it? The base REPROCESS value will be different, sure. But since most items aren't at all based on that value, it will have no real effect on the market. All manufactured items will still be measured by their manufacture input for example, and the others will be based on demand. So no, I'd avoid the use of the word "All" there and I'd probably avoid words like "most" or "many" too. Its a roughly 30% reduction to base reprocessing amount. The most you can get at max is 55% of the value of minerals in an item. So yes it will affect ALL items that can be reprocessed. It is a direct nerf to reprocessing. I suggest you go read the dev blog again. Right. And since when is the market for ALL ITEMS based on their reprocess value?
By the way, did you miss this one. It answers your "why do it" question. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
390
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:11:00 -
[484] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:It is irrational to claim that the base mineral value of all non-ice/ore items in the entire game is NOT reduced by the change, when the change explicitly and absolutely reduces the base mineral yield from those very same items. So there goes that argument out the window. How is it? The base REPROCESS value will be different, sure. But since most items aren't at all based on that value, it will have no real effect on the market. All manufactured items will still be measured by their manufacture input for example, and the others will be based on demand. So no, I'd avoid the use of the word "All" there and I'd probably avoid words like "most" or "many" too. Its a roughly 30% reduction to base reprocessing amount. The most you can get at max is 55% of the value of minerals in an item. So yes it will affect ALL items that can be reprocessed. It is a direct nerf to reprocessing. I suggest you go read the dev blog again. Right. And since when is the market for ALL ITEMS based on their reprocess value?
I didn't say anything about Market value and neither did he, he said mineral value. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
390
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:13:00 -
[485] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote:Zifrian wrote:Does this also nerf null sec anom runners? Since they lose out on the same loot reprocessing? Where's their rage? Did I miss it? Most of the people complaining are in highsec, and have little, if no, actual understanding of how this change affects them. Most of them don't even realise that in 6months it will be a net buff to if they adapted, but will instead just scream and cry and wail because understanding things is too hard. Remember: this is basically the echo chamber of "no but the minerals I mine are free" crowd. There is no net buff to reprocessing changes. it is a drastic nerf. But spin it however you want. As for Mining processes yes, if done properly HS folks should see about a 10% increase compared to current profits. But no scrap reprocessing is getting a massive nerf numbers don't lie and 30%+ is a big step back. No amount of koolaid can make that turn into a buff friend. It's not that big a step, especially when you take into account that MTUs increased the efficiency of gathering that very same loot. You can now just dump an MTU and go back later to scoop the loot. That's far more efficient than a lone tractor beam or flying between wrecks. And again, it only affects junk loot, not marketable loot, not salvage, not bounties or rewards or LP. So it's not the blanket nerf that most people seem to be complaining about.
You're right it is actually bigger if you maxed out all the skills you go from 100% Reprocess with max skills/standings to MAX 55% so it is 30-45% reduction to minerals yielded during reprocessing based on skills. And it affects ALL ITEMS. Not just Meta 1-3 and its not limited only to HS, but covers all space.
Are you sure you know what reprocessing is? |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2685
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:15:00 -
[486] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:It is irrational to claim that the base mineral value of all non-ice/ore items in the entire game is NOT reduced by the change, when the change explicitly and absolutely reduces the base mineral yield from those very same items. So there goes that argument out the window. How is it? The base REPROCESS value will be different, sure. But since most items aren't at all based on that value, it will have no real effect on the market. All manufactured items will still be measured by their manufacture input for example, and the others will be based on demand. So no, I'd avoid the use of the word "All" there and I'd probably avoid words like "most" or "many" too. Its a roughly 30% reduction to base reprocessing amount. The most you can get at max is 55% of the value of minerals in an item. So yes it will affect ALL items that can be reprocessed. It is a direct nerf to reprocessing. I suggest you go read the dev blog again. Right. And since when is the market for ALL ITEMS based on their reprocess value? I didn't say anything about Market value and neither did he, he said mineral value. Which mean what? What is your complaint? That an item that nobody is ever going to reprocess because it is too valuable to reprocess will produce less minerals when reprocessed? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2685
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:16:00 -
[487] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:You're right it is actually bigger if you maxed out all the skills you go from 100% Reprocess with max skills/standings to MAX 55% so it is 30-45% reduction to minerals yielded during reprocessing based on skills. And it affects ALL ITEMS. Not just Meta 1-3 and its not limited only to HS, but covers all space.
Are you sure you know what reprocessing is? Yes, I know what reprocessing is. Are you saying your reprocess ALL ITEMS? If you do, I can already see where the problem is here.
And nice avoidance on the fact that MTUs boosted income significantly. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
408
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:20:00 -
[488] - Quote
This guys not very smart.
Seems to get confused by implications of his own making rather than reading what is actually being said. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
390
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:22:00 -
[489] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:You're right it is actually bigger if you maxed out all the skills you go from 100% Reprocess with max skills/standings to MAX 55% so it is 30-45% reduction to minerals yielded during reprocessing based on skills. And it affects ALL ITEMS. Not just Meta 1-3 and its not limited only to HS, but covers all space.
Are you sure you know what reprocessing is? Yes, I know what reprocessing is. Are you saying your reprocess ALL ITEMS? If you do, I can already see where the problem is here. And nice avoidance on the fact that MTUs boosted income significantly.
Im not sure what you are arguing now. You say it doesn't affect all items but it does. Regardless of if you break them or not, it is still a nerf TO ALL reprocessing there aren't any special cases, but nice attempt at a nitpick.
And I ignored the MTU factor because it is irrelevant to the discussion. Minerals attained from reprocessing are insignificant to market valuation of items. Period. (which you eluded to yourself when you tried to put words in that other dudes mouth.) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20178
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:25:00 -
[490] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:You get more minerals from ore refinement. Hence it would be irrational to not choose ore reprocessing. GǪwhich doesn't preclude you from also going for scrap refining, and since more minerals is better than less minerals, that's all the rationale you need to train the skill.
Tippia wrote:It is not the same amount of work. Yes it is. You loot to get the good stuff. Separating the wheat from the chaff takes far more effort than just clicking GÇ£loot allGÇ¥ GåÆ apply filter GåÆ refine, so with the good stuff, you also get the GÇ£badGÇ¥ stuff, which you want to transform into something that is effortless to put on the market (read: turn into minerals). Again, more minerals is better than less minerals, and more profit is better than less profit, so that's all the rationale you need to get the junk loot as well.
Quote:The reprocessed mineral base value of ALL non-ice/ore refinable items is reduced in the change GǪwhich is something completely different from the base mineral value. Moreover, the reprocessed value is completely irrelevant to the value of produced items since the value there depends on the actual base content, which does not change.
If producing Gizmo A requires 100 units, and it refines into 50 units, will a rational manufacturer or trader then: A) Price it at a value corresponding to 100 units of trit + manufacturing costs + markup? 2) Price it at a value corresponding to 50 units of trit? iii) Laugh when you try to claim that it's not worth more than 50 units of trit? Gêå) Make huge oodles of cash from people selling it at a loss for less than the value of 100 units of trit?
Quote:consider if NO item had a reprocessing value. It would then still be worth the production cost, as demonstrated by the multitude of items that exhibit this exact property. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
390
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:28:00 -
[491] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:You get more minerals from ore refinement. Hence it would be irrational to not choose ore reprocessing. GǪwhich doesn't preclude you from also going for scrap refining, and since more minerals is better than less minerals, that's all the rationale you need to train the skill. .
Anyone who trains this skill if this change goes live as it is, is a ******. Functional pants on head ******. It is literally a waste of weeks of training time better spent in numerous other ways.
Sucks if you trained for the skill, I am glad I didn't. Think of all those poor souls who trained for the Rorqual that is only useful as an extra jump clone generator.
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2686
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:30:00 -
[492] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:You're right it is actually bigger if you maxed out all the skills you go from 100% Reprocess with max skills/standings to MAX 55% so it is 30-45% reduction to minerals yielded during reprocessing based on skills. And it affects ALL ITEMS. Not just Meta 1-3 and its not limited only to HS, but covers all space.
Are you sure you know what reprocessing is? Yes, I know what reprocessing is. Are you saying your reprocess ALL ITEMS? If you do, I can already see where the problem is here. And nice avoidance on the fact that MTUs boosted income significantly. Im not sure what you are arguing now. You say it doesn't affect all items but it does. Regardless of if you break them or not, it is still a nerf TO ALL reprocessing there aren't any special cases, but nice attempt at a nitpick. And I ignored the MTU factor because it is irrelevant to the discussion. Minerals attained from reprocessing are insignificant to market valuation of items. Period. (which you eluded to yourself when you tried to put words in that other dudes mouth.) OK, I really don't know how you don't get this.
I'll say it nice and slow. The value of most items is not related to their reprocess value.
Get that? So if the amount of minerals they reprocess into changes, what will change? Nothing. People aren't going to suddenly start selling Abaddons 45% undervalued because that's what they reprocess into. So their reprocess value means precisely **** all.
So why do you keep banging on about the "reprocess value" since it's a value that literally nobody will even bother calculating for most items? What is your complaint? You can't just keep going "ZOMG all items reprocess value is going to be down and that BAAAAAAAD", you have to explain why an insignificant number changing is going to be bad.
And MTUs increased the rate at which you can gather loot, thus increasing overall loot income. So you are totally happy with that massive buff to income, but any nerf and you fly off the handle?
By the way, did you miss this one. It answers your "why do it" question. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20178
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:31:00 -
[493] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Anyone who trains this skill if this change goes live as it is, is a ******. How is it stupid to earn more cash rather than less cash from your stuff and your time? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2742
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:33:00 -
[494] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Tippia wrote:It is not the same amount of work. Yes it is. slow down there |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1122
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:35:00 -
[495] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Anyone who trains this skill if this change goes live as it is, is a ******. How is it stupid to earn more cash rather than less cash from your stuff and your time?
I think the market price will stabilize at a minimum around the value of the reprocessed materials, so i can't really see the point in training the skill, unless you are actually interested in getting the materials. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2686
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:36:00 -
[496] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Anyone who trains this skill if this change goes live as it is, is a ******. Functional pants on head ******. It is literally a waste of weeks of training time better spent in numerous other ways. Not if they want to actually get into reprocessing both ore and loot) as a profession, which is kinda the point.
Mario Putzo wrote:Sucks if you trained for the skill, I am glad I didn't. Think of all those poor souls who trained for the Rorqual that is only useful as an extra jump clone generator. Except, you know, being by far the best fleet mining booster the game has to offer, plus the ability to run compression without having to keep a POS with the compression module in it. Still sounds pretty useful, and it's not even been rebalanced yet.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20181
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:36:00 -
[497] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Tippia wrote:Tippia wrote:It is not the same amount of work. Yes it is. slow down there Yes, yes. Fine. That should teach me to re-use existing quote tags rather than insert my own. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2686
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:39:00 -
[498] - Quote
dexington wrote:Tippia wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Anyone who trains this skill if this change goes live as it is, is a ******. How is it stupid to earn more cash rather than less cash from your stuff and your time? I think the market price will stabilize at a minimum around the value of the reprocessed materials, so i can't really see the point in training the skill, unless you are actually interested in getting the materials. That's pretty much the way it is now. It's just faster to reprocess and sell 7 stacks instead of 100. I'll be interested to see which meta modules are in use, so when their price drops they are kept at a level above reprocessing value due to demand. I'd imagine a fair few meta 3s will fall into this category.
It's also going to be a question of - do you reprocess/sell, or do you hold out for the meta rebalance? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20181
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:39:00 -
[499] - Quote
dexington wrote:I think the market price will stabilize at a minimum around the value of the reprocessed materials, so i can't really see the point in training the skill, unless you are actually interested in getting the materials. It's such a minimal bit of extra training if you're already going down the materials processing road, and you get more stuff and a larger basket of goods to choose from. More is more, so why give up the extra cash?
Lucas Kell wrote:That's pretty much the way it is now. It's just faster to reprocess and sell 7 stacks instead of 100. I'll be interested to see which meta modules are in use, so when their price drops they are kept at a level above reprocessing value due to demand. I'd imagine a fair few meta 3s will fall into this category.
It's also going to be a question of - do you reprocess/sell, or do you hold out for the meta rebalance? Also, it'll be interesting to see if any of them can finally filter back into invention mutators at any volume if the prices should ever match the rather insignificant changes in probability. Of course, that would be another (or an additional) way of doing the meta rebalancing. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2742
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:39:00 -
[500] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Tippia wrote:Tippia wrote:It is not the same amount of work. Yes it is. slow down there Yes, yes. Fine. That should teach me to re-use existing quote tags rather than insert my own. other forums get rich text editing :( |
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Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
390
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:42:00 -
[501] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:You're right it is actually bigger if you maxed out all the skills you go from 100% Reprocess with max skills/standings to MAX 55% so it is 30-45% reduction to minerals yielded during reprocessing based on skills. And it affects ALL ITEMS. Not just Meta 1-3 and its not limited only to HS, but covers all space.
Are you sure you know what reprocessing is? Yes, I know what reprocessing is. Are you saying your reprocess ALL ITEMS? If you do, I can already see where the problem is here. And nice avoidance on the fact that MTUs boosted income significantly. Im not sure what you are arguing now. You say it doesn't affect all items but it does. Regardless of if you break them or not, it is still a nerf TO ALL reprocessing there aren't any special cases, but nice attempt at a nitpick. And I ignored the MTU factor because it is irrelevant to the discussion. Minerals attained from reprocessing are insignificant to market valuation of items. Period. (which you eluded to yourself when you tried to put words in that other dudes mouth.) OK, I really don't know how you don't get this. I'll say it nice and slow. The value of most items is not related to their reprocess value. Get that? So if the amount of minerals they reprocess into changes, what will change? Nothing. People aren't going to suddenly start selling Abaddons 45% undervalued because that's what they reprocess into. So their reprocess value means precisely **** all. So why do you keep banging on about the "reprocess value" since it's a value that literally nobody will even bother calculating for most items? What is your complaint? You can't just keep going "ZOMG all items reprocess value is going to be down and that BAAAAAAAD", you have to explain why an insignificant number changing is going to be bad. And MTUs increased the rate at which you can gather loot, thus increasing overall loot income. So you are totally happy with that massive buff to income, but any nerf and you fly off the handle? By the way, did you miss this one. It answers your "why do it" question.
Only one talking about income here is you bud. I produce my own ships that I use in PVP from LP and Mission Loot as my mineral supply. Self Sufficient operation. I will now have to devote about 40% more time to PVE because of this change. I don't sell my ****, I keep it for me, I am greedy. It doesn't cost me anything but time, but now I have to invest more time into PVE, so I can enjoy PVP.
And I am not the only one who lives like this. Pretty much everyone I associate in low and null sec is pissed off about this change to Reprocessing because it disrupts our capacity to remain an effective PVP force.
Not everyone scukles on the Teet of the Goons for SRP fed by passive moon goo income. Sorry bud, but some of us actually have to PVE to PVP. It sucks let me tell you.
But no its not about income, these **** items and their mineral returns don't generate sfa for income. But keep assuming thats why people are pissed off. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
408
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:44:00 -
[502] - Quote
Tippia wrote:which doesn't preclude you from also going for scrap refining, and since more minerals is better than less minerals, that's all the rationale you need to train the skill. It would be irrational, as that time is better spent skilling further ore refinement, for again, more minerals owing to the better scaling and higher cap on that (as well as the far more robust market of available ore/ice).
Tippia wrote: Claiming somehow looting takes less time and effort than not looting HURR .
What. This doesn't even make sense. It takes less time to not loot, than it takes time to loot. It takes more work to loot, than it takes to not loot. Furthermore some activities are restricted by cargo space. All of this arbitrary and irrelevant to the concrete fact that the lower the reprocessing value of ALL loot, as is the direct result of the change, the less worthwhile it is to spend time looting at all in the first place. (which then ofc has the chain effect that the market therefore has less trash brought in, which then marginalises reprocessors even further).
Tippia wrote:Claiming reprocessing value of an item has no bearing on its actual value There are many items of which the only value is in their reprocessing.
Tippia wrote:It would then still be worth the production cost, as demonstrated by the multitude of items that exhibit this exact property. Not to a Reprocessor it wouldnt. Which is exactly the crux of this issue.
This change has no rational reason or justification.
Its well and fine for CCP to lower the efficiency to allow themselves some space for future developments, but the magnitude of the current change is estranged from the realities of the actual profession. The margins are small already as they are now, today. This change eliminates them and essentially kills the Reprocessor as a profession (and additionally makes it an irrational choice compared to skilling ice/ore refining instead). |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
853
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:49:00 -
[503] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:You're right it is actually bigger if you maxed out all the skills you go from 100% Reprocess with max skills/standings to MAX 55% so it is 30-45% reduction to minerals yielded during reprocessing based on skills. And it affects ALL ITEMS. Not just Meta 1-3 and its not limited only to HS, but covers all space.
Are you sure you know what reprocessing is? Yes, I know what reprocessing is. Are you saying your reprocess ALL ITEMS? If you do, I can already see where the problem is here. And nice avoidance on the fact that MTUs boosted income significantly. Im not sure what you are arguing now. You say it doesn't affect all items but it does. Regardless of if you break them or not, it is still a nerf TO ALL reprocessing there aren't any special cases, but nice attempt at a nitpick. And I ignored the MTU factor because it is irrelevant to the discussion. Minerals attained from reprocessing are insignificant to market valuation of items. Period. (which you eluded to yourself when you tried to put words in that other dudes mouth.) OK, I really don't know how you don't get this. I'll say it nice and slow. The value of most items is not related to their reprocess value. Get that? So if the amount of minerals they reprocess into changes, what will change? Nothing. People aren't going to suddenly start selling Abaddons 45% undervalued because that's what they reprocess into. So their reprocess value means precisely **** all. So why do you keep banging on about the "reprocess value" since it's a value that literally nobody will even bother calculating for most items? What is your complaint? You can't just keep going "ZOMG all items reprocess value is going to be down and that BAAAAAAAD", you have to explain why an insignificant number changing is going to be bad. And MTUs increased the rate at which you can gather loot, thus increasing overall loot income. So you are totally happy with that massive buff to income, but any nerf and you fly off the handle? By the way, did you miss this one. It answers your "why do it" question. Only one talking about income here is you bud. I produce my own ships that I use in PVP from LP and Mission Loot as my mineral supply. Self Sufficient operation. I will now have to devote about 40% more time to PVE because of this change. I don't sell my ****, I keep it for me, I am greedy. It doesn't cost me anything but time, but now I have to invest more time into PVE, so I can enjoy PVP. And I am not the only one who lives like this. Pretty much everyone I associate in low and null sec is pissed off about this change to Reprocessing because it disrupts our capacity to remain an effective PVP force. Not everyone scukles on the Teet of the Goons for SRP fed by passive moon goo income. Sorry bud, but some of us actually have to PVE to play the game. It sucks let me tell you. But no its not about income, these **** items and their mineral returns don't generate sfa for income. But keep assuming thats why people are pissed off.
because apparently you can't foster the existence of some local miners, and you can't use a blockade runner to go fetch 450m of minerals in 1 almost uninterceptable flight, and if you have local miners, then the 1 blockade runner trip will probably round out an 800m ship building basket in 10 minutes.
that's all completely impossible and you could never possibly adapt. I see.
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Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2686
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:51:00 -
[504] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Only one talking about income here is you bud. I produce my own ships that I use in PVP from LP and Mission Loot as my mineral supply. Self Sufficient operation. I will now have to devote about 40% more time to PVE because of this change. I don't sell my ****, I keep it for me, I am greedy. It doesn't cost me anything but time, but now I have to invest more time into PVE, so I can enjoy PVP. OK, so what you are saying is you reprocess all of your loot? So you are oblivious to the fact that many items you can sell for a value higher than the reprocess value, then buy minerals with that isk which leaves you with more minerals than you would have had through reprocessing. That sounds like your problem.
Mario Putzo wrote:And I am not the only one who lives like this. Pretty much everyone I associate in low and null sec is pissed off about this change to Reprocessing because it disrupts our capacity to remain an effective PVP force. So get better at being self sufficient. Learn new ways to keep yourself in ships.
Mario Putzo wrote:Not everyone scukles on the Teet of the Goons for SRP fed by passive moon goo income. Sorry bud, but some of us actually have to PVE to play the game. It sucks let me tell you. Yup, it's not like I'm an industrialist and a trader at all is it? I just pop over to the goons and say "isk please" and march away all cheery. The fact is, I make a lot of isk, and I do a lot of refining, manufacturing and trading, and when they hit with a nerf, I just adapt my play to figure out's what's best for me. I mean ****, I was in drone space when they nuked the ever living hell out of the drone loot, leaving us with a massive mineral void. I adapted to the situation. It sounds like if you did the same, there would be no issues. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20181
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:54:00 -
[505] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Only one talking about income here is you bud. I produce my own ships that I use in PVP from LP and Mission Loot as my mineral supply. Self Sufficient operation. I will now have to devote about 40% more time to PVE because of this change. I don't sell my ****, I keep it for me, I am greedy. It doesn't cost me anything but time, but now I have to invest more time into PVE, so I can enjoy PVP.
And I am not the only one who lives like this. Pretty much everyone I associate in low and null sec is pissed off about this change to Reprocessing because it disrupts our capacity to remain an effective PVP force. Have you ever considered not being inefficient?
Salvos Rhoska wrote:It would be irrational, as that time is better spent skilling further ore refinement, I'll ask again: how is earning more irrational?
Try reading what I white instead of relying on strawman fallacies. Oh, and: how is earning more irrational?
Quote:There are many items of which the only value is in their reprocessing. GǪand none of them are player-produced goods, where the reprocessed value is irrelevant. You didn't answer the question, by the way.
Quote:Not to a Reprocessor it wouldnt GǪand as luck would have it, they are not the arbiters of how much stuff is worth. Oh, and for the items where the reprocessed value was never relevant, the reprocessor can still take advantage of the same old incompetence in others to score more minerals than they're actually paying for. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2687
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:56:00 -
[506] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:What. This doesn't even make sense. It takes less time to not loot, than it takes time to loot. It takes more work to loot, than it takes to not loot. Furthermore some activities are restricted by cargo space. All of this arbitrary and irrelevant to the concrete fact that the lower the reprocessing value of ALL loot, as is the direct result of the change, the less worthwhile it is to spend time looting at all in the first place. (which then ofc has the chain effect that the market therefore has less trash brought in, which then marginalises reprocessors even further). OK so situation 1: I open a wreck, It has just the loot I want. I click loot all.
Situation 2: I open a wreck, it has all the loot I want and some junk loot. I click loot all.
How is that any different?
And again, stop talking about the reprocess value f ALL loot, since you shouldn't be reprocessing ALL loot. If you are then these changes are the least of your problems.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Not to a Reprocessor it wouldnt. Which is exactly the crux of this issue. So a reprocessor just mindlessly reprocesses everything in your mind? Even if it's got order for twice it's reprocess value, they only reprocess it?
Salvos Rhoska wrote:This change has no rational reason or justification. Wrong. Not only have we explained this, it's on the bloody dev blog. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
408
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 03:03:00 -
[507] - Quote
It will kill the reprocessing profession.
And for no real reason at all. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20181
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 03:04:00 -
[508] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:It will kill the reprocessing profession.
And for no real reason at all. Nope and nope, in roughly that order. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
408
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 03:08:00 -
[509] - Quote
Only a moron would skill into it instead of investing that time into ice/ore refining. Both for the higher mineral yields and for the more robust market.
Wheras any idiot stupid enough to waste even a second skilling into reprocessing instead, will be faced with a market empty of reprocessable goods due to players no longer bringing in their loot, due to the universal reduction in their effective mineral value as a factor of the reduced efficiency in reprocessing them. And even if they find a few items to reprocess, their own yield will be so small they might as well go sell nude pictures of themselves at Jita for mineral handouts.
No incentive for it, whatsoever, and perhaps that is a good thing so that mission/rat/plex runners can finally stop worrying about trash loot and instead just focus on the higher earning elements of their activities.
But all of this is happening on the grave of the Reprocessing profession. Stone cold dead. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10330
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 03:09:00 -
[510] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Only one talking about income here is you bud. I produce my own ships that I use in PVP from LP and Mission Loot as my mineral supply. Self Sufficient operation. I will now have to devote about 40% more time to PVE because of this change. I don't sell my ****, I keep it for me, I am greedy. It doesn't cost me anything but time, but now I have to invest more time into PVE, so I can enjoy PVP.
And I am not the only one who lives like this. Pretty much everyone I associate in low and null sec is pissed off about this change to Reprocessing because it disrupts our capacity to remain an effective PVP force.
Not everyone scukles on the Teet of the Goons for SRP fed by passive moon goo income. Sorry bud, but some of us actually have to PVE to PVP. It sucks let me tell you.
But no its not about income, these **** items and their mineral returns don't generate sfa for income. But keep assuming thats why people are pissed off.
yeah no doubt when I see somebody relying solely on minerals from reprocessing to build their own ships the first thought that crosses my mind is "boy they must be a lean mean PvP machine" Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
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