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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5298
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Posted - 2014.03.23 08:27:00 -
[721] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
They could flood null sec with money, it would still be grabbed by the alliance brass and "stored" whereas the grunts would still spend years crying high injustice against everybody (except their brass of course) on the forums.
It's an old thing, null sec is made to provide copious amounts of money from the top down, but the "top" only let it trickle it down.
You'll forever demand more money, never noticing how when a big alliance dies (that is, they lost, that is they are passing the worst moment) it still gets found out how they had huge mounds of billions worth of stuff given to directors to "hold".
Not sure why you believe that a conspiracy theory is more likely than nullsec just being broken.
I and my alts lived in there in 3 different alliances for 2 years, the only broken thing was that it was boring to tears. In one of my corps, our SRP even covered fitted capitals, people did not even *need* to make money.
Actually, the lack of need to play made living in there very dull, only 20 out of 300 in corp were online for the majority of the day, everybody else did not bother, they had PvP (the only thing they cared to do) free and waiting for them every evening.
It's also why (and there are posts of this in this very thread) some say: "in null sec you risk having to sit in station / POS because of unknown inbound hostiles. When you just have a fraction playing because they don't need to, makes for these "holes" in online guarding personnel. Plus notice how they picture as "downside" the fact they KNOW there are inbound hostiles.
Whereas other, living in locations deserving more income (like Wormholes), don't even have the spoiled child luxury of having NPC granted instant intel. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3343
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Posted - 2014.03.23 08:34:00 -
[722] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Whereas other, living in locations deserving more income (like Wormholes), don't even have the spoiled child luxury of having NPC granted instant intel.
Wormholes don't have cynos. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10543
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Posted - 2014.03.23 08:40:00 -
[723] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Whereas other, living in locations deserving more income (like Wormholes), don't even have the spoiled child luxury of having NPC granted instant intel.
Wormholes don't have cynos.
Or have to fight fleets consisting for several hundreds supers. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Kyperion
124
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Posted - 2014.03.23 09:34:00 -
[724] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:
Never said you were a goon, and you don't need to live in nullsec to be a nullsec apologist. There is no reason for passive income to exist on the level it does (and mining is not passive sorry). Supporting making income while off line and not playing is quite comical.
So are you against PI then ?
The people to whom you should propose that questions are James 315 and his New Order folks. |
Dave Stark
4548
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 09:50:00 -
[725] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:baltec1 wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:
Never said you were a goon, and you don't need to live in nullsec to be a nullsec apologist. There is no reason for passive income to exist on the level it does (and mining is not passive sorry). Supporting making income while off line and not playing is quite comical.
So are you against PI then ? The people to whom you should propose that questions are James 315 and his New Order folks.
the difference is, mining isn't an activity designed to be done while walking the dog or doing your grocery shopping. PI is. |
Kyperion
124
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Posted - 2014.03.23 11:10:00 -
[726] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Kyperion wrote:baltec1 wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:
Never said you were a goon, and you don't need to live in nullsec to be a nullsec apologist. There is no reason for passive income to exist on the level it does (and mining is not passive sorry). Supporting making income while off line and not playing is quite comical.
So are you against PI then ? The people to whom you should propose that questions are James 315 and his New Order folks. the difference is, mining isn't an activity designed to be done while walking the dog or doing your grocery shopping. PI is.
Considering the Cycle slider of the extracter yeilds the most at only two minutes more than the cycle of a strip miner, that is clearly not the case.... Both are examples of gameplay mechanics whose very DESIGN includes inherent ability to walk away while doing them
.... In other words, all these **** tards pissed off at AFK miners, AFK Missioners, and AFK in general... are on the whole, ignorant bastards |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2375
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Posted - 2014.03.23 11:15:00 -
[727] - Quote
Kyperion wrote: .... In other words, all these **** tards pissed off at AFK miners, AFK Missioners, and AFK in general... are on the whole, ignorant bastards
No one is pissed off at them
They make easy targets and thats good
Its the AFK folk who get pissed off and believe that there should be some sort of special protection against being killed while you are away from your computer but insist on staying in space. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
789
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 11:18:00 -
[728] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:.... In other words, all these **** tards pissed off at AFK miners, AFK Missioners, and AFK in general... are on the whole, ignorant bastards
+1 to what Ramona wrote.
They aren't pissed off at them at all. AFK miners, haulers and autopiloting pilots helps the NO agents and knights in their play. Why would they be pissed off about them? eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |
afkboss
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.03.23 11:21:00 -
[729] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Batelle wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Folks, read the newest dev blog. The goons in the post are gloating in their posts, so you know it is terrible for high sec. In a few months, mission runners will now have to invest weeks and weeks of training, plus buy a hideously expensive implant, to get the privilege of a 27.6% nerf to all mission loot refines. Or you could just sell your loot to someone that makes such refines their profession in the first place, as most people already do. Guess who else it nerfs? nullsec anomaly runners. MTUs plus chained anomalies makes looting very efficient and a large portion of income. Guess who it doesn't nerf at all? hisec mission blitzers that don't loot. What you say is true, but for the fact is that vast majority of null sec anom runners don't loot. And most mission runners do loot in high sec. Guess the MTU was to popular a module, and the tractor beam bonus of the Marauder just became even more useless.
Vast majority of null sec anom ratters DO LOOT. I keep 10 in my paladin and drop one in every site, I can easily make more in minerals than a solo miner can as well as 80 mill an hour in bounties.
Gun mining is stupid broken as it is and needs heavy nerf even if i do lose 40 mill an hour.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20191
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Posted - 2014.03.23 11:22:00 -
[730] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:No way null sec players would create alts whose sole purpose was to ruin high sec. What makes you think that anyone is out to GÇ£ruin highsecGÇ¥?
Quote:Why do you even bother? Because there's always the vain hope that someday, you'll learn to articulate an actual argument and provide supporting evidence rather than just troll as hard as possible and spew vitriol over other players just because you don't like their play style. Maybe you'll notice the pattern that every time you post one of your paranoia rants, it ends up the same.
Quote:I will say something insightful, brilliant, and speaks to the truth of what is happening to Eve. That would be nice. When will you do that because it would be a welcome change from the blind, ignorant, and blatant lies you usually come up withGǪ
Quote:Null sec cartel apologists and propagandists Who? What are these supposed GÇ£null sec cartelsGÇ¥ you blame all your woes on? Have you considered the possibility that your threads get heavy GM attention because you invite it with your incessant trolling? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
498
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Posted - 2014.03.23 11:30:00 -
[731] - Quote
Kyperion wrote: Considering the Cycle slider of the extracter yeilds the most at only two minutes more than the cycle of a strip miner, that is clearly not the case.... The only thing that allows a P.I. player to be 'more' AFK than a Miner is the fact that they don't even have to undock.
Do not need to undock and do not even need to be in the same region.
You can monitor your PI and reset extractors and change production from your Jita trade clone or your mission hub or wherever you want really even if the planets are in null or lowsec. Not sure about WH planets do not have any.
You just need a jump clones nearby to pop in system in a covops occasionally and upload stuff to the POCO.Evry few weeks when the POCO is full you take in an Epithal, but most of the work is done remotely.
As far as the original post, i do not see the issue. My highsec mission alt makes far more ISK blitzing and cherry picking the odd good item and ignoring the low value loot you recycle. The change will only effect new missioners. |
Kyperion
124
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Posted - 2014.03.23 11:30:00 -
[732] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:No way null sec players would create alts whose sole purpose was to ruin high sec. What makes you think that anyone is out to Gǣruin highsecGǥ? Quote:Why do you even bother? Because there's always the vain hope that someday, you'll learn to articulate an actual argument and provide supporting evidence rather than just troll as hard as possible and spew vitriol over other players just because you don't like their play style. Maybe you'll notice the pattern that every time you post one of your paranoia rants, it ends up the same. Quote:I will say something insightful, brilliant, and speaks to the truth of what is happening to Eve. That would be nice. When will you do that because it would be a welcome change from the blind, ignorant, and blatant lies you usually come up withGǪ Quote:Null sec cartel apologists and propagandists Who? What are these supposed Gǣnull sec cartelsGǥ you blame all your woes on? Have you considered the possibility that your threads get heavy GM attention because you invite it with your incessant trolling?
I think, even if I agreed with your arguments, I would bee annoyed because of the 'Too many quotes' limitation of the forums. |
Kyperion
124
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Posted - 2014.03.23 11:32:00 -
[733] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Kyperion wrote: Considering the Cycle slider of the extracter yeilds the most at only two minutes more than the cycle of a strip miner, that is clearly not the case.... The only thing that allows a P.I. player to be 'more' AFK than a Miner is the fact that they don't even have to undock.
Do not need to undock and do not even need to be in the same region. You can monitor your PI and reset extractors and change production from your Jita trade clone or your mission hub or wherever you want really even if the planets are in null or lowsec. Not sure about WH planets do not have any. You just need a jump clones nearby to pop in system in a covops occasionally and upload stuff to the POCO.Evry few weeks when the POCO is full you take in an Epithal, but most of the work is done remotely. As far as the original post, i do not see the issue. My highsec mission alt makes far more ISK blitzing and cherry picking the odd good item and ignoring the low value loot you recycle. The change will only effect new missioners.
being about Highsec missioning was never the destiny of this thread |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20192
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 11:39:00 -
[734] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:I think, even if I agreed with your arguments, I would bee annoyed because of the 'Too many quotes' limitation of the forums. WeeellGǪ the limit would have to be increased to the hundreds to deal with Dindin's delusions point by point, so one has to work with what one's got. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2693
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 11:59:00 -
[735] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:[quote=Emuar]@Lucas Kell And a small group renting space can survive quite well as they don't attract much attention. A large group though, all packed into a smaller area, that would attract pirates from everywhere. If that happened, suddenly there would be a requirement for people to effectively stand guard and be a player run concord for the area, which would be the most boring job in the game.
You mean encouraging PVP in what is supposed to be the region of Elite PVP? Or does PVP only count when there is a Timer on a Structure and Mittens sends a Jabber Ping out to the CFC? I suppose this explains why CFC space is so empty from Tenal to Period Basis. Or maybe its the massive PASSIVE income generated by MoonGoo that means pilots don't need to be out in space making ISK, because all their stuff is paid for by moons mined automatically by a POS. More like the little reward doesn't justify the risk. There is no risk if you have a security force baby sitting you. Lucas was exactly correct on how you combat a pirate threat thus no risk. Heck even less risk then doing the EXACT same thing in LS, or even HS. "Hey guys PVP in the PVP region is bad mmkay! Let us mine our moongoo in peace." Where are you getting this 272% number from? Because it's wrong. I't looks like you are basing of of mercoxit which is really dumb, since that's not scalable.
And as for "security", this is a game mate. People shouldn't have to sit around in a PvP **** doing nothing but waiting for PVE players to finish PVEing just in case people arrive, and that's what would happen if any non-concord area of space increased to highsec levels in activity. Doing what null alliances do now, taking more space and spreading out, that is security. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2693
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 12:10:00 -
[736] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:This is a good and needed change for the whole game. If you want to plonk on your tinfoil hat and claim that the entire universe will collapse due to these changes be my guest. For a supposed expert in speculation you seem to be taking what is a small change and blowing it up into some huge thing. The change is good per se but it is "directed" to benefit the most a target which is not the most deserving. All the rest you type is a reflection of what you want to read in my words. How is it? Let's be clear, who is this target that is not the most deserving? And who would you say is the most deserving? You might have missed the exact list I have said some pages ago. That doesn't really answer the question. Plain, simple and clear: when you say "it is "directed" to benefit the most a target which is not the most deserving", what target group are you talking about? Since a lot of people benefit from this change here are a lot of people you could mean and I don't want to jump to conclusions. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5299
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 13:29:00 -
[737] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Whereas other, living in locations deserving more income (like Wormholes), don't even have the spoiled child luxury of having NPC granted instant intel.
Wormholes don't have cynos. Or have to fight fleets consisting for several hundreds supers.
Nor they have moons to help them nor they have the number of players to man them.
I felt due diligence to remind that things to both ways. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5299
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 13:31:00 -
[738] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:This is a good and needed change for the whole game. If you want to plonk on your tinfoil hat and claim that the entire universe will collapse due to these changes be my guest. For a supposed expert in speculation you seem to be taking what is a small change and blowing it up into some huge thing. The change is good per se but it is "directed" to benefit the most a target which is not the most deserving. All the rest you type is a reflection of what you want to read in my words. How is it? Let's be clear, who is this target that is not the most deserving? And who would you say is the most deserving? You might have missed the exact list I have said some pages ago. That doesn't really answer the question. Plain, simple and clear: when you say "it is "directed" to benefit the most a target which is not the most deserving", what target group are you talking about? Since a lot of people benefit from this change here are a lot of people you could mean and I don't want to jump to conclusions.
Who are the "drivers" pushing since years?
Cui prodest? Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
24
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Posted - 2014.03.23 13:32:00 -
[739] - Quote
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Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2377
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Posted - 2014.03.23 13:34:00 -
[740] - Quote
Dinsdale thread collapses into completely inpenetrable gibberish.
This just in: Water still wet.
Film at 11 *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
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Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
414
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Posted - 2014.03.23 13:40:00 -
[741] - Quote
Beneficiaries of the change are: -Null entities capable of financing the refinery efficiency installations -Null sec entitites with renters who now have some degree of added incentive to mine, refine and provide resources to null domestically. -Those renters, to some degree, depending on how sov owners adjust their rent, access to facilities, protection and possivle incenrive programs to ensure a greater flow of minerals from null domestically. -POS owners with compression capability throughout the universe. -Null sec entitites with the infrastructure to manufacture and sell products both to high sec markets, and also some null markets.
Non-beneficiaries: -Reprossecors. -Mission/rat/plex runners -High sec industrialists who now have to compete with null industrialists who have a wider margin owing to the better refinement efficiency in their native space -Miners without personal access to advanced refining facilities, in high sec as their raw output will be suppressed by the margins of compression services, in null sec because you will have to pay for the privilege as rent, which suppresses your profits. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2448
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Posted - 2014.03.23 13:41:00 -
[742] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Dinsdale thread collapses into completely inpenetrable gibberish.
This just in: Water still wet.
Film at 11
Hey, not my problem. I keep my message clear and concise.
Null sec cartels have conspired to ruin any profitability in high sec for:
1. Their own personal gain as players are forced to be null sec serfs to scratch out any kind of income in Eve. 2. The twisted enjoyment of ruining the gaming experience for anyone who refuses to accept their vision of how Eve should be played.
I can't help it if the Tippia's of the world hijack the thread with their walls of text of "logic". Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10546
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Posted - 2014.03.23 13:44:00 -
[743] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Nor they have moons to help them nor they have the number of players to man them.
I felt due diligence to remind that things to both ways.
Hence why they risk less. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2377
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 13:45:00 -
[744] - Quote
Sorry Mr P I cant take seriously anything written by someone who regards Orwell as anything but a crackpot *shrug*
Good luck with your quest to save the universe though. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20193
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 13:46:00 -
[745] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Hey, not my problem. I keep my message clear and concise. You also keep them detached from reality. That's the main problem.
Who?
Quote:have conspired to ruin any profitability in high sec What makes you think that anyone is doing this or that it is even a goal to do so? Do you have anything to support it happening in any way, shape, or form?
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Those who stand to lose from the changes are:: -Reprossecors. -Mission/rat/plex runners -Entities currently dependant on what mission/rat/plex runners bring in. -High sec industrialists who now have to compete with null industrialists who have a wider margin owing to the better refinement efficiency in their native space -Miners without personal access to advanced refining facilities, in high sec as their raw output will be suppressed by the margins of compression services, in null sec because you will have to pay for the privilege as rent, which suppresses your profits. GÇó Entities dependent on what ratters bring in will be using far more efficient means of filling that dependency than low-level loot. GÇó Industrialists aren't being affected since they have far better things to do than mess around with low-level materials manipulation. If anything, they will now benefit from the increased efficiency of getting materials from the market. GÇó Miners' raw output will be the same as ever.
That leaves the first two, of which the ratters will only be affected at very lowest end, and reprocessors are only affected by volume. Their basic business of relisting goods at their proper market values remains. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
414
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 14:03:00 -
[746] - Quote
Those are true, if subjectively interpreted and not entirely representative, but true enough.
However they do not disprove that they are the ones who stand to lose from the proposed changes, infact they merely reinforce that they are. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20194
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 14:06:00 -
[747] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:However they do not disprove that they are the ones who stand to lose from the proposed changes, infact they merely reinforce that they are. It rather disputes that any actual loss will occur. Refocusing maybe, but hardly loss. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
414
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Posted - 2014.03.23 14:11:00 -
[748] - Quote
Tippia wrote:It rather disputes that any actual loss will occur. Refocusing maybe, but hardly loss.
They are losses, from the subjective perspective of those individuals, and objectively from the perspective of the game.
That you think the loss is mitigated by resultant player refocusing into other activities as a result of the change, does not change the fact that the reason they are doing so is a result of the changes causing them a loss in their current activities.
That is what prompts the "refocusing" as you put it. Otherwise there would be no impetus to "refocus". |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2378
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Posted - 2014.03.23 14:13:00 -
[749] - Quote
We need some anti-semantics in here STAT *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2693
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 14:15:00 -
[750] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Beneficiaries of the change are: -Null entities capable of financing the refinery efficiency installations -Null sec entitites with renters who now have some degree of added incentive to mine, refine and provide resources to null domestically. -Those renters, to some degree, depending on how sov owners adjust their rent, access to facilities, protection and possivle incenrive programs to ensure a greater flow of minerals from null domestically. -POS owners with compression capability throughout the universe. -Null sec entitites with the infrastructure to manufacture and sell products both to high sec markets, and also some null markets.
Those who stand to lose from the changes are:: -Reprossecors. -Mission/rat/plex runners -Entities currently dependant on what mission/rat/plex runners bring in. -High sec industrialists who now have to compete with null industrialists who have a wider margin owing to the better refinement efficiency in their native space -Miners without personal access to advanced refining facilities, in high sec as their raw output will be suppressed by the margins of compression services, in null sec because you will have to pay for the privilege as rent, which suppresses your profits. Lol, and this is exactly the problem. You are so blinded by "everything must be for null and anti-highsec" that you bealieve this utter nonsense. The biggest gain will be by WH groups, who will be able to refine at a higher rate than NPC stations, and will be able to move in compressed minerals, which previously wasn't possible.
High sec industrialists will now have an option of compressing and selling their ore directly, which was previously restricted to manufacturers with a lot of spare lines and fully researched blueprints or people with rorquals.
Null entities will also lose their ability to reprocess modules, meaning that if a doctrine changes, they can't just reprocess and remanufacture the new modules. they also won't gain as many minerals from their loot, of which there is plenty.
Seriously guy, you seem to have barely an understanding of the mechanics, and your judgement is so clouded by your anti-null attitude that you can't actually comprehend the impact of the changes. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
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