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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Deunan Tenephais
93
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Posted - 2014.03.30 13:15:00 -
[1711] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Its VERY hard for me not to be rude at you I do not care, and if you cannot control yourself then I advise you stop posting on this forum, or on any forum.
But after such words this discussion is over.
Tippia wrote:And what's arbitrarily designated as GÇ£normalGÇ¥ does not excuse what is essentially and fundamentally unbalanced gameplay.
So again, why? Why should nullsec producers not be able to compete? There is no reason, if they become competitive then the main trade hub could be moved to sov space for all I care, but it's unlikely because of the central position of empire space.
The only problem I see is lore-wise: the null alliances are young compared to NPC empires, they simply can't have the same level of infrastructures in a credible way, unless CCP retcon/state some things. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2787
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 13:26:00 -
[1712] - Quote
Deunan Tenephais wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Its VERY hard for me not to be rude at you I do not care, and if you cannot control yourself then I advise you stop posting on this forum, or on any forum. But after such words this discussion is over..
Its not my fault if you cant do things that are hard.
I gave you the benefit of a reply when you were rude, and if this is the best you can do I suggest you take some time and have a think about why people disagree with you and you get wound up about it.
My point stands as it is. Trade Hubs are NOT arbitrary, they go to where the money is to be made.
If you have no further comment then I shall assume you agree and I accept your apology. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Deunan Tenephais
93
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Posted - 2014.03.30 13:36:00 -
[1713] - Quote
Please stop, you are embarassing yourself and you're making me feel bad about myself for having to point it to you, so please stop. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20320
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 13:40:00 -
[1714] - Quote
Deunan Tenephais wrote:There is no reason Good.
Quote:The only problem I see is lore-wise: Lore is in every way utterly and completely irrelevant GÇö even more so if it gets in the way of balanced gameplay.
So: null certainly should be buffed to the point where it's cheap enough to produce there and JF stuff for sale (at a profit) in Jita.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2787
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 13:42:00 -
[1715] - Quote
Deunan Tenephais wrote:Please stop, you are embarassing yourself and you're making me feel bad about myself for having to point it to you, so please stop.
Good comeback Garth
Please, if you cannot have a discussion like an adult, stop with the random poorly thought out insults.
They demean you and the non-Amarr races as a whole *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10988
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 13:47:00 -
[1716] - Quote
Deunan Tenephais wrote: The only problem I see is lore-wise: the null alliances are young compared to NPC empires, they simply can't have the same level of infrastructures in a credible way, unless CCP retcon/state some things.
Britain holds the biggest minerals market, she is the worlds oldest industrial powerhouse. She mines very little.
Minerals like platinum are mined and refined in South Africa.
Iron ore in Australia.
Gold in Indonesia.
It makes perfect sense to have the infrastructure in newer nations from an RP point of view. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2787
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 13:56:00 -
[1717] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Deunan Tenephais wrote: The only problem I see is lore-wise: the null alliances are young compared to NPC empires, they simply can't have the same level of infrastructures in a credible way, unless CCP retcon/state some things.
Britain holds the biggest minerals market, she is the worlds oldest industrial powerhouse. She mines very little. Minerals like platinum are mined and refined in South Africa. Iron ore in Australia. Gold in Indonesia. It makes perfect sense to have the infrastructure in newer nations from an RP point of view.
Pretty much what I said too +1 *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Deunan Tenephais
93
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Posted - 2014.03.30 14:03:00 -
[1718] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Quote:The only problem I see is lore-wise: Lore is in every way utterly and completely irrelevant GÇö even more so if it gets in the way of balanced gameplay. It's irrelevant to you and some other people, but it does not mean it is to everyone. It's not even about the actual lore, what is asked is for the lore of the game to be coherent and have a minimal depth, other than that it can be whatever CCP want or deems necessary. That's why if CCP want the rag-tag pirates to have better production capacities than entrenched and old empires they will have to explain it; if the explanation is sound and solid, then why not. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2787
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:06:00 -
[1719] - Quote
Deunan Tenephais wrote: rag-tag pirates
Ah I see
The problem is you dont have a clear idea of what a lot of the Nullainces are really like.
They are certainly NOT rag-tag pirates.
They are Empires in their own right, at the very least like the East India Company was in the 19th century *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20323
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:07:00 -
[1720] - Quote
Deunan Tenephais wrote:It's irrelevant to you and some other people, but it does not mean it is to everyone. It is irrelevant to everyone because lore does never ever excuse imbalances and poor gameplay. A bad game with good lore is a bad game made even worse by the fact that effort has been wasted on irrelevancies.
Trying to use lore as an excuse means you've run out of excuses and that the change should have happened so long that it borders on the silly. (And let's not even get into the fact that there's no lore reason against this change eitherGǪ). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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Prt Scr
569th Freelancers Eternal Evocations
24
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Posted - 2014.03.30 14:11:00 -
[1721] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Deunan Tenephais wrote: Don't pretend you misunderstood, Jita itself is irrelevant, the important part is "main trade hub". Main trade hub = better deals in the whole game due to bleeding edge competition.
Its VERY hard for me not to be rude at you Why should ANYWHERE be placed as an arbitrary trade hub? The trade goes where its beneficial for the market. If Null Sec trade hubs start because of this change, then its proof that that market functions properly
LOL main trade hubs will NEVER EVER be in null sec. No trader with a single working brain cell will place his/her stock in a station that can be taken over at any time and have its access refused to anyone who wants to use it . There will always be profit in buying in high sec and transporting to null for sale. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10988
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:13:00 -
[1722] - Quote
Deunan Tenephais wrote:Tippia wrote:Quote:The only problem I see is lore-wise: Lore is in every way utterly and completely irrelevant GÇö even more so if it gets in the way of balanced gameplay. It's irrelevant to you and some other people, but it does not mean it is to everyone. It's not even about the actual lore, what is asked is for the lore of the game to be coherent and have a minimal depth, other than that it can be whatever CCP want or deems necessary. That's why if CCP want the rag-tag pirates to have better production capacities than entrenched and old empires they will have to explain it; if the explanation is sound and solid, then why not.
Us ragtag pirates control an empire as large or larger than the high sec empires. We have hundreds of systems under our banners with thousands of planets. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Deunan Tenephais
93
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:20:00 -
[1723] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Deunan Tenephais wrote: The only problem I see is lore-wise: the null alliances are young compared to NPC empires, they simply can't have the same level of infrastructures in a credible way, unless CCP retcon/state some things.
Britain holds the biggest minerals market, she is the worlds oldest industrial powerhouse. She mines very little. Minerals like platinum are mined and refined in South Africa. Iron ore in Australia. Gold in Indonesia. It makes perfect sense to have the infrastructure in newer nations from an RP point of view. But do highseccers mine very little ? Asteroids cannot be mined out in EVE, and the roids are strictly tiered per sec rating, which make sense gameplay-wise but is totally unrealistic. If ores asked for different levels of skill to be refined (veldspar the easiest, mercoxit the hardest) due to decreasing familiarity in refining strangest and strangest ores it would make sense for highsec equipement to be worse than others, because it would be enough to correctly refine local ores, but it's not the case.
Frankly, highseccers/lowseccers/nullseccers/wormholers can have it all if they want, but EVE rules seems to become more and more abstract all in the name of balance, be it perceived or real, and I find it less and less interesting because of that.
I simply don't think playing in a purely mathematical environment is very fun. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20323
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:25:00 -
[1724] - Quote
Deunan Tenephais wrote:Frankly, highseccers/lowseccers/nullseccers/wormholers can have it all if they want, but EVE rules seems to become more and more abstract all in the name of balance Good. Balance and good gameplay trumps everything, especially in a game where the story is created by the players.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10988
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:29:00 -
[1725] - Quote
Deunan Tenephais wrote: But do highseccers mine very little ? Asteroids cannot be mined out in EVE, and the roids are strictly tiered per sec rating, which make sense gameplay-wise but is totally unrealistic. If ores asked for different levels of skill to be refined (veldspar the easiest, mercoxit the hardest) due to decreasing familiarity in refining strangest and strangest ores it would make sense for highsec equipement to be worse than others, because it would be enough to correctly refine local ores, but it's not the case.
Frankly, highseccers/lowseccers/nullseccers/wormholers can have it all if they want, but EVE rules seems to become more and more abstract all in the name of balance, be it perceived or real, and I find it less and less interesting because of that.
I simply don't think playing in a purely mathematical environment is very fun.
And we are back to it making no sense to reward the safest areas of space the same as the most dangerous.
No matter which argument you try here there is no reason at all to have high sec on par with null. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2790
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:36:00 -
[1726] - Quote
Prt Scr wrote: LOL main trade hubs will NEVER EVER be in null sec. No trader with a single working brain cell will place his/her stock in a station that can be taken over at any time and have its access refused to anyone who wants to use it . There will always be profit in buying in high sec and transporting to null for sale.
Can I quote you on that when GoonEcom1 goes active? *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers Eternal Evocations
24
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Posted - 2014.03.30 14:37:00 -
[1727] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Deunan Tenephais wrote: But do highseccers mine very little ? Asteroids cannot be mined out in EVE, and the roids are strictly tiered per sec rating, which make sense gameplay-wise but is totally unrealistic. If ores asked for different levels of skill to be refined (veldspar the easiest, mercoxit the hardest) due to decreasing familiarity in refining strangest and strangest ores it would make sense for highsec equipement to be worse than others, because it would be enough to correctly refine local ores, but it's not the case.
Frankly, highseccers/lowseccers/nullseccers/wormholers can have it all if they want, but EVE rules seems to become more and more abstract all in the name of balance, be it perceived or real, and I find it less and less interesting because of that.
I simply don't think playing in a purely mathematical environment is very fun.
And we are back to it making no sense to reward the safest areas of space the same as the most dangerous. No matter which argument you try here there is no reason at all to have high sec on par with null.
Actualy as EVE is run by CCP and they want profit, it makes sence that as most players are high sec carebears they should have better proits from mining /industry then null sec..they have fewer resources per capita
If high sec carebears are forced into a null sec environment they will just leave the game...and then EVE will be dead and it will all be your fault |
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers Eternal Evocations
24
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Posted - 2014.03.30 14:39:00 -
[1728] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Prt Scr wrote: LOL main trade hubs will NEVER EVER be in null sec. No trader with a single working brain cell will place his/her stock in a station that can be taken over at any time and have its access refused to anyone who wants to use it . There will always be profit in buying in high sec and transporting to null for sale.
Can I quote you on that when GoonEcom1 goes active?
Yes i will be camping the station exit with my cyno ships and we will buttfuck ever undocking freighter . Grow a brain cell and use it. Where would you gank if Jita 4/4 was in null sec? |
Deunan Tenephais
93
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:41:00 -
[1729] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:And we are back to it making no sense to reward the safest areas of space the same as the most dangerous.
No matter which argument you try here there is no reason at all to have high sec on par with null. But the rewards are not the same, it's only that nullseccers refuse to take the risk to reap the rewards. Stop refusing to take the risk and wanting security above all else, low risk and low reward are for highsec, high risk and high reward are for nullsec but only if nullseccers want to take that risk, and many do not, or else they would not be farming high sec.
The root of the problem does not lie in highsec vs nullsec incomes, it lies in the fact that nullseccers refuse to accept the risk of their environment and they blame highsec for that while it is simply not true, it's their own fault and not anyone else's.
Face it, if you do not want to take risks then your place is not in nullsec but in highsec, because you have a carebear mentality and do not truly want to lose the certainty of security, you only want to pretend that there is risk in what you do.
The donut is a lie. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2791
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:44:00 -
[1730] - Quote
Prt Scr wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Prt Scr wrote: LOL main trade hubs will NEVER EVER be in null sec. No trader with a single working brain cell will place his/her stock in a station that can be taken over at any time and have its access refused to anyone who wants to use it . There will always be profit in buying in high sec and transporting to null for sale.
Can I quote you on that when GoonEcom1 goes active? Yes i will be camping the station exit with my cyno ships and we will buttfuck ever undocking freighter . Grow a brain cell and use it. Where would you gank if Jita 4/4 was in null sec?
Hmm yes Im sure the entirity of the GSF membership all shop at Jita, and wouldnt shop at a closer cheaper hub if they could.
And Im sure that you would be able to get within 4 jumps of any Null Hub safely *sarcasm*
Oh and good luck ganking the Jump Freighters. Please train Basic Null Tactics to 1.
Also, "brain cells" arent what help in deductive reasoning.
That's synapses you are thinking of. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
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stoicfaux
4332
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Posted - 2014.03.30 14:45:00 -
[1731] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
And we are back to it making no sense to reward the safest areas of space the same as the most dangerous.
No matter which argument you try here there is no reason at all to have high sec on par with null.
One exception. If an entity cannot secure null sec well enough to benefit from null's advantages, then that entity would want high sec to be on par with null.
So if an entity actively campaigns for null's rewards to buffed in line with null's increased risks, then that entity believes that they can secure null well enough to take advantage of null's increased rewards.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Prt Scr
569th Freelancers Eternal Evocations
24
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Posted - 2014.03.30 14:47:00 -
[1732] - Quote
Oh and good luck ganking the Jump Freighters. Please train Basic Null Tactics to 1.
lol heavy dictor or bubble on exit noob |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20327
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:53:00 -
[1733] - Quote
Deunan Tenephais wrote:The root of the problem does not lie in highsec vs nullsec incomes, it lies in the fact that nullseccers refuse to accept the risk of their environment and they blame highsec for that while it is simply not true, it's their own fault and not anyone else's. No, the problem lies in the mechanical impossibility to make nullsec on par with highsec in many areas.
People would accept the risks just fine if there was something to balance them out. There isn't. In pretty much every way that nullsec could potentially offer some kind of improvement, highsec is already as good as it gets. With no margins for other parts of space to be better, there is no room for and no rationale to not operate in highsec. To fix that problem, those margins have to be created. Only then, if the problem actually persists, do you have a pointGǪ but at the moment, you're just trying to shift blame away from the real problem and trying to blame people who have actually done the maths (and the empirical testing) on what does and does not work. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers Eternal Evocations
24
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Posted - 2014.03.30 14:53:00 -
[1734] - Quote
Also, "brain cells" arent what help in deductive reasoning.
That's synapses you are thinking of.
i am truely sorry, you need 2 brain cells for a single synapse |
admiral root
Red Galaxy Disband.
1060
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:54:00 -
[1735] - Quote
Prt Scr wrote:If high sec carebears are forced into a null sec environment they will just leave the game...and then EVE will be dead and it will all be your fault
Then it's a good thing no-one credible is trying to force anyone to go anywhere. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2793
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:58:00 -
[1736] - Quote
Prt Scr wrote:Also, "brain cells" arent what help in deductive reasoning.
That's synapses you are thinking of.
i am truely sorry, you need 2 brain cells for a single synapse
Yes, so growing a "brain cell" as you say wouldnt actually help.
Prt Scr wrote:Oh and good luck ganking the Jump Freighters. Please train Basic Null Tactics to 1.
lol heavy dictor or bubble on exit noob
Bubbles cant be deployed that close to a station, noob.
And you think a heavy dictor will last for more 3/4ths of a second outside? Or even be allowed to arrive in a NullHub in the first place?
Also, L2quotes *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers Eternal Evocations
24
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Posted - 2014.03.30 15:04:00 -
[1737] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Prt Scr wrote:Also, "brain cells" arent what help in deductive reasoning.
That's synapses you are thinking of.
i am truely sorry, you need 2 brain cells for a single synapse Yes, so growing a "brain cell" as you say wouldnt actually help. Prt Scr wrote:Oh and good luck ganking the Jump Freighters. Please train Basic Null Tactics to 1.
lol heavy dictor or bubble on exit noob Bubbles cant be deployed that close to a station, noob. And you think a heavy dictor will last for more 3/4ths of a second outside? Or even be allowed to arrive in a NullHub in the first place? Also, L2quotes
OK bubbles catch the incoming jump freighters and yes heavy dictors will last forever, because there wont just be 1, if any major alliance set up a trade hub to rival jita 4/4 (even if it was only 1/10th as active) all the other alliances and pvp groups and any day old noob who wants a kill would be sitting on the undock. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2794
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 15:07:00 -
[1738] - Quote
Prt Scr wrote:
OK bubbles catch the incoming jump freighters and yes heavy dictors will last forever, because there wont just be 1, if any major alliance set up a trade hub to rival jita 4/4 (even if it was only 1/10th as active) all the other alliances and pvp groups and any day old noob who wants a kill would be sitting on the undock.
Why would it be EASIER for them to get there in that instance than it is for them to go anywhere in enemy territory now?
Incoming JFs? The ones that Bamph onto station and instantly dock?
Yes I see how you could bubbles would in some way be relevant there.......
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers Eternal Evocations
24
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Posted - 2014.03.30 15:07:00 -
[1739] - Quote
and cant be arsed to L2quote |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10988
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 15:28:00 -
[1740] - Quote
Prt Scr wrote:Actualy as EVE is run by CCP and they want profit, it makes sence that as most players are high sec carebears they should have better proits from mining /industry then null sec..they have fewer resources per capita If high sec carebears are forced into a null sec environment they will just leave the game...and then EVE will be dead and it will all be your fault
Nobody is going to force them into null. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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