Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
1259
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 03:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Minerals I mine are free.
This statement is the most toxic, horrible thing that any industrialists can hear.
Currently we have a weapon to stave off such stupidity. The ability to reverse their stupidity and put the minerals back on the market at the right price via 100% reprocessing.
There is a 45% nerf to reprocessing, this will nerf the counter to "minerals I mine are free" and will drive t1 hulls to 55% of their current value.
Minerals off the market will cost you 180m to build an abaddon, but "Minerals I mine are free" will sell it to you for 103m. Because that is how much it can be refined for back to the market.
45% reduction in price on all T1 modules, and many meta modules doesn't seem terribly bad. One of the oldest mission players in EVE designed a chart that explains stat priority in regards to mission running, compared Alpha, DPS, Ship Speed and Sig Radius and scores them. http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m24dbrfuWn1r86ax8o1_1280.jpg |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
11067
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 04:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Im sure you meant to put quotation marks around "Minerals I mine are free."
Because as of now...it looks like youre telling industrialists that your post is the most toxic horrible thing they can hear...
Just sayin'. Its already a Tom Gerard thread...That's normally enough, just would hate to see a Tom Gerard thread work against itself....
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
1259
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 04:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Good Advice
Fixed.
One of the oldest mission players in EVE designed a chart that explains stat priority in regards to mission running, compared Alpha, DPS, Ship Speed and Sig Radius and scores them. http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m24dbrfuWn1r86ax8o1_1280.jpg |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2300
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 04:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
MIMAF people are useful idiots if you are consuming the goods they produce, and a serious occupational hazard if you are producing what they produce.
So keep tabs on them, and take advantage. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=318489 - Proposal for a new type of tech 2 Destroyer If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3418
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 04:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
2/10 because 2 people bit. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4280
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 05:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
They are certainly free for me.
Or to be more precise. Once my AFK miner has paid for his month with them, the balance is free.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
493
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 05:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
If people do not understand opportunity cost and want to stupidly sell stuff for less than they could otherwise get by just dumping the minerals at the nearest trade hub, well not much to be done.
Its not just mining. Currently in PI only one of the P4 products currently sells for more than you would get just selling the P2 mats. In fact even if you have P2 planets and need a P4 like Sterile Conduits for your own production lines, you are way better off dumping your own P2 on the market and buying some other fools P4 rather than making your own.
The other amusing one is people that go to all the effort of producing or moving commodities to a remote area where they can sell at most 1 or 2 items a week but might get an Ok profit due to the distance, and dump 50 on the market at Jita prices :D
All this change means is when you buy up the "below cost" dumped produce you need to resell it at a proper price rather than taking the easy way out and reprocessing the lot. |
Matalino
52
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 06:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Its not just mining. Currently in PI only one of the P4 products currently sells for more than you would get just selling the P2 mats. In fact even if you have P2 planets and need a P4 like Sterile Conduits for your own production lines, you are way better off dumping your own P2 on the market and buying some other fools P4 rather than making your own. Opportunity cost also includes labor shipping items to market. P3's and P4's have a smaller volume than the P2's used to make them. Even if there was more ISK for selling the P2's, the extra labor required to get them to market might not be worth it. Running an PI operation outside of high-sec can increase your profits significantly because of larger harvests, but will also increase your efforts and risks in getting items to market. With these operations it makes sense to convert to a higher density commodity, even if there is a moderate loss in value. Thus, there are valid reasons for producing P3's and P4's even if the P2's have a theoretically higher selling price. |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
211
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 06:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
You have zero cost basis in the minerals you mine. If one doesn't mind selling for less than market value that is their perogative. It is a free market. Deal with it. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20173
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 06:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Good thing then that you can counter the "free minerals" completely without ever touching the recycling interface. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
Sibyyl
230
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 07:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
I can understand gankling mining ships. I can even understand the concern that hisec mining culture contributes to a more banal EVE inter-player interaction.
What I don't understand is thread after thread of this non constructive, vitriolic "I hate these people" threads about miners. Is it not enough for you to play a game? Or do you have nothing better to do than rant about how somebody chooses to play a game? I'm not sure what another human being could have possibly done to elicit that sort of response.
The only thing toxic here is threads like these.
/Fÿ¡
Now that you are *campers* you will have more *parties* and no more *sad* *lonely* *bubbles*. |
Blake Gates Heleneto
Stay Frosty.
78
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 07:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:.... gankling ....
Gankling? That sounds dirrrrty
But fun! |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
2762
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 07:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
The minerals I mine are free in so much that I won't need to invest ISK into buying them from the market. And I can mine more low end minerals to "exchange" them for the high end minerals I need. So I will run a lower risk in ISK with market fluctuations. Whether or not something is worth producing in the first place is calculated from buying the minerals on the market when setting up the spreadsheet. That process is completely independent from the source of the minerals.
You will never have the sense of achievement from mining all the minerals needed for your own freighter. Delivering the job and hopping into it for the first time has something elated to it. This is mine. I created it. And even if you gank it, I know, I can just build another. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Umbod Myrr
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 07:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote:Currently we have a weapon to stave off such stupidity. The ability to reverse their stupidity and put the minerals back on the market at the right price via 100% reprocessing.
There is a 45% nerf to reprocessing, this will nerf the counter to "minerals I mine are free" and will drive t1 hulls to 55% of their current value.
Minerals off the market will cost you 180m to build an abaddon, but "Minerals I mine are free" will sell it to you for 103m. Because that is how much it can be refined for back to the market. Why would you need to reprocess anything sold under mineral value? If it bothers you so much buy it and re-list it. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1508
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 08:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nothing wrong with stupid people, without them, and their hard work, how would anyone get rich? ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Azami Nevinyrall
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1741
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 09:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Blake Gates Heleneto wrote:Sibyyl wrote:.... gankling .... Gankling? That sounds dirrrrty But fun! Very fun! New player experience, more highsec PvE missions, casual play, balance, counters to AFK cloaking, expanding the NEX store, and Power Projection.
Azami Nevinyrall for CSM9! |
Felicity Love
Margaret Thatcher's Miners
1605
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 09:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote:"Minerals I mine are free".
Except when someone is dumb enough to leave them in a can to be stolen... then they are free...and so are the tears.
... and I was just saying the other day, "Damn, I miss Soundwave"....
|
Felicity Love
Margaret Thatcher's Miners
1605
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 09:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Blake Gates Heleneto wrote:Sibyyl wrote:.... gankling .... Gankling? That sounds dirrrrty But fun!
Is that like Twerking ?
... and I was just saying the other day, "Damn, I miss Soundwave"....
|
Ralen Zateki
Nexis.
165
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 10:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:You have zero cost basis in the minerals you mine. If one doesn't mind selling for less than market value that is their perogative. It is a free market. Deal with it.
I just love obtuse statements like this.
Cost basis is primarily used to determine capital gain so that the IRS can determine how much to tax you. From a business standpoint it's a lousy way to look at ROI... aside from manipulating your balance sheet to report lower gains for lower taxes.
Most things in life are not as complicated as tax law, thank God. It's pretty simple. The time you spend mining minerals are worth something. The minerals are worth something. The time you spend mining minerals vs. doing something more lucrative is worth something.... the only real point in investing in business is to generate a ROI that is more robust than sticking your money in a mayonnaise jar and burying it in the back yard for a rainy day errr... savings account.
Most businesses fail because they simply don't know how to mark up their product. In EVE, your 'business' can't fail. No one is coming to repossess your assets. All that can really happen to you is you spend a lot of time grinding to get peanuts in return and you represent a nuisance in the market to those who actually understand how to calculate a value for their time, effort, and value of capital and balance that against a price point on the market.
To somehow imply that "zero cost basis" and "perogative" are a justification or replacement for "ignorance" is flat out wrong. Strictly speaking "the minerals I mine are free" is an unlightened - or for those less sensitive - ignorant point of view. |
Ralen Zateki
Nexis.
165
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 10:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:The minerals I mine are free in so much that I won't need to invest ISK into buying them from the market. And I can mine more low end minerals to "exchange" them for the high end minerals I need. So I will run a lower risk in ISK with market fluctuations. Whether or not something is worth producing in the first place is calculated from buying the minerals on the market when setting up the spreadsheet. That process is completely independent from the source of the minerals.
You will never have the sense of achievement from mining all the minerals needed for your own freighter. Delivering the job and hopping into it for the first time has something elated to it. This is mine. I created it. And even if you gank it, I know, I can just build another.
The minerals you mine aren't free... no matter how you look at it. And this "exchange" you are talking about, without demonstrating a value for the time spent, capital required, and conversion rate of one commodity to another is likely a speculative venture that isn't at all lucrative.
I suspect based on "sense of achievement" you are confusing two things: 1.) performing a trade for profit and 2.) performing a trade for an altruisitc sense of achievement.
I prefer to do both, but profit comes first as it's the most powerful instrument for furthering any altruistic endeavor. |
|
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
2762
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 11:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ralen Zateki wrote:The minerals you mine aren't free... no matter how you look at it. And this "exchange" you are talking about, without demonstrating a value for the time spent, capital required, and conversion rate of one commodity to another is likely a speculative venture that isn't at all lucrative.
I suspect based on "sense of achievement" you are confusing two things: 1.) performing a trade for profit and 2.) performing a trade for an altruisitc sense of achievement.
I prefer to do both, but profit comes first as it's the most powerful instrument for furthering any altruistic endeavor. It's funny how you misinterpret my post just to have an argument. Or it's just your reading comprehension. Either way, your response says more about you than me. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
HIFI INDUSTRIAL The Kadeshi
284
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 13:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:...Its not just mining. Currently in PI only one of the P4 products currently sells for more than you would get just selling the P2 mats. In fact even if you have P2 planets and need a P4 like Sterile Conduits for your own production lines, you are way better off dumping your own P2 on the market and buying some other fools P4 rather than making your own.... I won't comment on P4s because I don't produce them (I do produce P3s); and while on the surface it might seem like selling P2 mats is the smarter move... in reality it doesn't always work out that way.
P3s have a major advantage over P2s... compression. In deep null, shipping costs are an important consideration that is not clearly seen in market buys and sells.
I am not saying people are not making poor choices, just that compression of volume is a strong factor in my choices... and perhaps some others. |
Spurty
V0LTA Triumvirate.
1277
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 13:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
I hate it whenever I warp to a belt and my wallet starts getting sucked dry.... Oh wait...
Of course they are free and you are free to charge whatever you want for stuff you make. Until it's an automatic fee to warp to a belt and engage the static and very dead rocks, it's certainly not costly.
What you say is unacceptable to those that don't even mine. My wallet remains the same if I mine or ship spin.
Now, if you're trying to sell us on "time is money", were not buying your poop sandwich as this is a game. I have a job where I actually use skills to pay a mortgage and taxes. Until CCP charges us tax like "isk to exist", time and money concept is dead here.
*signature is not allowed on the EVE Online forums* |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
134
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 13:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ralen Zateki wrote:[quote=Shizuken] To somehow imply that "zero cost basis" and "perogative" are a justification or replacement for "ignorance" is flat out wrong. Strictly speaking "the minerals I mine are free" is an unlightened - or for those less sensitive - ignorant point of view.
I admit to not acting completely rational in Eve. What you call ignorant may be in some instances just an unwillingness to care.
I guess many do not want to check whether there's no better IRR available in the market. Occasionally I just want to build something because I can.
However, it would be surprising if this irrationality would have a magnitude to really distort the markets, as these players should not have the volumes.
|
Uncle Traveling Matt
Dragonfire Industries Weyr Syndicate
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 13:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
The other thing that irks me about these threads is that just because I may want to waste my time mining and not play in the "Eve-socially-acceptable method", I am somehow an inferior player. BULL****.
It just means at the time, maybe I don't want to do Incursions. Maybe I don't want to play Faction Warfare. Maybe I don't want to play the market game.
Maybe I want to be semi-AFK eating brownies and watching TV while attending to my mining lasers once in a while.
It's a game. I'll play how I darn well please, thank you very much.
UTM
|
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
244
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 14:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
Confirming that both EvE is real, and I should turn it into a second job. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
739
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 14:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote: There is a 45% nerf to reprocessing, this will nerf the counter to "minerals I mine are free" and will drive t1 hulls to 55% of their current value.
why are you bothered by idiots who sell products below market value anyways? Someone who has a clue, will sell minerals instead of manufactored items.
I didnt like 100% recycling anyways so glad CCP fixed it. If you recycle something, you should do it at loss. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2361
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 14:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote: I didnt like 100% recycling anyways so glad CCP fixed it. If you recycle something, you should do it at loss.
I still have no idea where this 100% figure comes from.
No item reprocesses at 100%. Never has and never will.
They just said they were going to nerf a system that already is barely worth using. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
261
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 15:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
I'll toss in something, the same goes for Tech3 stuff.
I used to be a what I mine is free, till I started doing other types of industry. When I see a tech3 electronics subsystem sell for 2m less then the cost of the nanoribbons needed to build it, I shake my head. Why people want to shoot themselves in the foot and lose 2m (at least) per mod is beyond me. |
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
1260
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 16:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:I'll toss in something, the same goes for Tech3 stuff.
I used to be a what I mine is free, till I started doing other types of industry. When I see a tech3 electronics subsystem sell for 2m less then the cost of the nanoribbons needed to build it, I shake my head. Why people want to shoot themselves in the foot and lose 2m (at least) per mod is beyond me.
nanoribbons I salvage are free One of the oldest mission players in EVE designed a chart that explains stat priority in regards to mission running, compared Alpha, DPS, Ship Speed and Sig Radius and scores them. http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m24dbrfuWn1r86ax8o1_1280.jpg |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |