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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3375
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Posted - 2014.03.23 04:06:00 -
[31] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Agiri Falken wrote:Katrina Oniseki wrote:No. No I'll just be drinking heavily until this is all over. I've got a keg of two century old rum for these kinds of things. Drop in and help yourself. Deteis don't need to drop themselves into a keg to drink it. That's a Civire thing. I have a glass, thank you very much.
A glass what? |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
3085
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 04:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Katrina Oniseki wrote:Agiri Falken wrote:Katrina Oniseki wrote:No. No I'll just be drinking heavily until this is all over. I've got a keg of two century old rum for these kinds of things. Drop in and help yourself. Deteis don't need to drop themselves into a keg to drink it. That's a Civire thing. I have a glass, thank you very much. A glass what?
The transparent concave projectiles your kind throw at people in bars. They're supposed to be used for drinking liquids out of, so you don't need to immerse your entire face and suck down fluid until you choke.
Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3375
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 04:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
Oh, right. I thought you meant, like, a glass eye or liver or something. |
Agiri Falken
State War Academy Caldari State
108
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 04:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Katrina Oniseki wrote:Agiri Falken wrote:Katrina Oniseki wrote:No. No I'll just be drinking heavily until this is all over. I've got a keg of two century old rum for these kinds of things. Drop in and help yourself. Deteis don't need to drop themselves into a keg to drink it. That's a Civire thing. I have a glass, thank you very much. A glass what? The transparent concave projectiles your kind throw at people in bars. They're supposed to be used for drinking liquids out of, so you don't need to immerse your entire face and suck down fluid until you choke. Hey! A good tumbler survives the throw! And the solution to that isn't the glass... Once you have your head immersed, you just don't stop till the kegs done. Everyone knows that! |
Noden Vorpalstar
The Knights of Polaris
130
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Posted - 2014.03.23 04:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
A fitting tribute to all those who have fought and died on both sides of this conflict. With respect to the fallen, may you rest in peace.
Fading light dims the sight, And a star gems the sky, gleaming bright. From afar drawing nigh -- Falls the night.
Day is done, gone the sun, From the lake, from the hills, from the sky; All is well, safely rest, God is nigh.
Then good night, peaceful night, Till the light of the dawn shineth bright; God is near, do not fear -- Friend, good night.
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Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
701
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Posted - 2014.03.23 04:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
Quote: childish... [...] What's being called childish is your sorry ass dragging this bullshit from the other thread, into here, where people are otherwise showing respect for the dead. [...] ONE OF US! [...] ONE OF US!
Yeeeeees.
Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. |
Aarin Kyasura
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2014.03.23 05:02:00 -
[37] - Quote
Desiderya wrote:Quote: childish... [...] What's being called childish is your sorry ass dragging this bullshit from the other thread, into here, where people are otherwise showing respect for the dead. [...] ONE OF US! [...] ONE OF US!
Hey! You can't screw up this thread! It takes away from my screwing up this thread! Translated. No need to thank me. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3375
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 05:06:00 -
[38] - Quote
Aarin Kyasura wrote:Desiderya wrote:Quote: childish... [...] What's being called childish is your sorry ass dragging this bullshit from the other thread, into here, where people are otherwise showing respect for the dead. [...] ONE OF US! [...] ONE OF US!
Hey! You can't screw up this thread! It takes away from my screwing up this thread! Translated. No need to thank me.
Oh well, thank the Maker for that, it was just on the tip of my tongue. |
Aarin Kyasura
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2014.03.23 05:08:00 -
[39] - Quote
Just doing what I can, handsome. Just doing what I can. <3 |
Anabella Rella
Gradient
1609
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 06:01:00 -
[40] - Quote
Haters just gotta hate, right? When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around. |
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Agiri Falken
State War Academy Caldari State
109
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Posted - 2014.03.23 06:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
The sad truth is, that the answer had already been given in the first paragraph of my initial response. I'll distill it down, and repeat it once; The illusion that pulling more entities into a politically or militarily sensitive operation of any kind is a misconception held dear by those who know absolutely nothing about internal security operations.
The more ears that hear it, the greater the chance that sources you don't want to will too. And almost never do you gain more "security" than you do risk. It only applies more so here, since we've seen the first response, the instant the first announcement came about. It would have been a toss up between anyone working with us, or trying to **** it up because it's us doing it. The possibility of help was unlikely, leaving only the possibility of rising risk of sabotage from internal or external sources.
So, that left a choice between inviting in people we know for sure despise us, in the hope that the gesture would bring them around, and keeping things compartmentalized to reduce risk, while taking the flak after for doing the smart thing. Given that the "Patriot" response is an unending tirade about how we should have done all the wrong things, by operational standards, to appease them, I think the choice needs no further explanation. |
Ayallah
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
130
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Posted - 2014.03.23 06:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
Ishukone meets with the Gallentean Senate in secret, the secret is Ishukone, standing at their memorial with their self-righteous and a piece of starship plate. The whole State to scramble as the wave breaks short of the wall. It is more than theatrics, it is a message. Not just a memorial, no. You can reveal a memorial a million different and far more commonly used ways. If you think that Ishukone did not engineer it, that it was not intentional? ...If you do not see the power plays in these events then I have no sympathy for you when it all goes down and you are left wondering.
And of course, the dead rest on Caldari Prime. -áFear The Tribes |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3375
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 06:40:00 -
[43] - Quote
I'm not sure that it wasn't the best way to handle it - simply because given equal notice there's no way the State could have gotten so many people in position to be there for the unveiling as the Federation could have done.
BUT.
There should have been a Navy representative. The ceremony really wasn't complete without one. In addition, there is widespread disquiet within the State regarding the way that details are being withheld regarding Caldari Prime and Ishukone's negotiations with the Federation. That's not just Diana Kim. It's not just me. It's not just Kalaakiota.
Some of these misunderstandings were caused by lack of information. |
Xindi Kraid
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
743
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 06:49:00 -
[44] - Quote
Political bullshit like who gets invited to the memorial ceremony rather than focusing on what the real purpose it is the same kind of crap that's the reason we need a memorial in the first place. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3375
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 06:50:00 -
[45] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:Political bullshit like who gets invited to the memorial ceremony rather than focusing on what the real purpose it is the same kind of crap that's the reason we need a memorial in the first place.
Yes, yes. I'm sure chaika will notice you now you've posted. |
Agiri Falken
State War Academy Caldari State
109
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 07:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
The sequence of events as follows... Ishukone does Something. Ishukone must be doing Something Wrong. Ishukone must be doing Something that could harm the State. Rar, Ishukone.
And there's questions as to why it's all opaque? I'm sure it would all be wine and roses if somebody else was doing the same, say Kaalakiota? Lai Dai?
You want transparency... Okay, we want some damn breathing room so we can afford to give it to you without getting bit.
I've already explained the reason for the "tight" (pfft) security. The reality is, nobody even waited a day before "disappointment" went to "distrust" went to "treason". You want to talk about grandstanding? That delay turned into every idiot hollering for blood like we'd been the ones who rammed that Nyx into our own station.
The most basic reason for Ishukone to handle the negotiations comes down to; We're the only one of the Okusaikan who hasn't spent five years making bitter enemies of the Federation. After losing our foothold, it came down to whether they'd talk or not. I didn't hear about anyone else stepping up. I would honestly love to be mistaken.
And, yet again, our own efforts don't preclude anyone else from doing the same. If they won't, that's the end of the story. If the Feds won't talk to them, see above. Maybe you should've thought about that when you all drug the war out for five years.
And finally, lets say we stepped back, said "Okay, handle it." and just let fate sort itself. Is anyone really of the belief that the Feds would even give the corps that are still hostile to them the time of day? Much less room to talk when we've got no presence to force the claim left in Luminarie?
Now that I've all but reiterated myself... Pieter, the article said 'including'. Wasn't an exhaustive list. And personally, I'm In agreement that a CalNav representative should be a part of that entourage. Maybe they were and weren't mentioned? Maybe they declined? All guesswork and supposition right now, but I'd like to know for sure too. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
2093
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 11:38:00 -
[47] - Quote
There sure are a lot of people here who are trusting that this is actually why Ishukone was in negotiations.
The creation of a memorial, no matter how noble, is not the sort of thing that requires an entire convoy of diplomats; Nor is it the sort of thing that requires those diplomats to show up in person. It can be handled over the phone.
In addition; This all started no more than a week ago. Real art takes time. This did not have the time necessary.
My conclusion is that we don't have all the bits of the story, all the pieces of the puzzle. I have a saying that I tell to new pilots, and people always assume that I am just trying to sell National ideology, and in part they are correct however it has applications outside of Our methods.
"Never trust anyone whom you can't read the mind of."
There is more to this and those of you who buy this story as given are fools. |
Jonas Wickonian
Nicelander Industries
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 12:10:00 -
[48] - Quote
the secrecy was to avoid extremists from ruining the revealing of the memorial, reason there was a large group of diplomats is because, as these topics have shown, it's a touchy subject and delicacy is needed. Equally the memorial itself can be seen as a controversy if not handled correctly, i have heard some liken this to a trophy mount, like one would mount the head of its prey in a trophy room some claim that making the memorial out of the late ship is the same. Wounds still run deep from that day, and this is an attempt to heal that , hopefully nothing more. |
Agiri Falken
State War Academy Caldari State
109
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 13:09:00 -
[49] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:There sure are a lot of people here who are trusting that this is actually why Ishukone was in negotiations.
The creation of a memorial, no matter how noble, is not the sort of thing that requires an entire convoy of diplomats; Nor is it the sort of thing that requires those diplomats to show up in person. It can be handled over the phone.
In addition; This all started no more than a week ago. Real art takes time. This did not have the time necessary.
My conclusion is that we don't have all the bits of the story, all the pieces of the puzzle. I have a saying that I tell to new pilots, and people always assume that I am just trying to sell National ideology, and in part they are correct however it has applications outside of Our methods.
"Never trust anyone whom you can't read the mind of."
There is more to this and those of you who buy this story as given are fools. All entirely true. Mind if I steal that saying? I've got a few recruits I'd LOVE to use that on. |
Ollie Rundle
150
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 13:35:00 -
[50] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:In addition; This all started no more than a week ago. Real art takes time. This did not have the time necessary.
While I agree with most of what you have said Tiberious - and in fact was saying much the same thing in the original thread reporting on the convoy of diplomats - I must point out a small detail in regards to this particular comment.
It was reported on by NOH news sources less than a week ago. The project may have started well in advance of that, unknown to us. The time requirement may well have been satisfied.
As you have correctly noted, we do not have all the data and as such should not be too willing to rule out any possibility at present.
-á |
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Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
2399
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 16:09:00 -
[51] - Quote
Next week: Black Eagle bombs memorial while dressed as Caldari "insurgents." First wave of "security relocations" of ethnic Caldari begins the next day. Nullsec in a Nutshell: http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |
James Syagrius
Fire In The NIght
843
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 19:01:00 -
[52] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:There sure are a lot of people here who are trusting that this is actually why Ishukone was in negotiations.
The creation of a memorial, no matter how noble, is not the sort of thing that requires an entire convoy of diplomats; Nor is it the sort of thing that requires those diplomats to show up in person. It can be handled over the phone.
In addition; This all started no more than a week ago. Real art takes time. This did not have the time necessary.
My conclusion is that we don't have all the bits of the story, all the pieces of the puzzle. I have a saying that I tell to new pilots, and people always assume that I am just trying to sell National ideology, and in part they are correct however it has applications outside of Our methods.
"Never trust anyone whom you can't read the mind of."
There is more to this and those of you who buy this story as given are fools. Of course there is more to it.
Personality I hope and suspect its allot more.
In the end f you canGÇÖt make peace with the wholeGǪ GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
-á
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Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
573
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 22:01:00 -
[53] - Quote
I like to add that capsuleers could have joined the unveiling of the monument by attending the Caldari Prime Battle anniversary event. While it wasn't announced in public that such revelation of a memorial would happen, there was still an event organized to remember the fallen of a year ago, who fought for peace on both sides.
So 'claiming you couldn't get an invite' is a bit of a stretch, as everyone was invited to be there at the Caldari Prime Battle anniversary event. Even standings can't be an issue, as Miss Diana Kim, who is KOS by the federation navy was spotted on the field, and even in a few of the flypast maneuvers.
Yes it was in space, but considering the reputation capsuleers have among the common people, it was for the best during this memorial event.
If you like to read more on the anniversary, you can read this publication: First year anniversary of the Caldari Prime battle was a success!
-áFirst year anniversary of the Caldari Prime battle was a success! Preparations for the first year anniversary of the Battle for Caldari Prime |
TomHorn
Dragonaurs Ndrangheta.
200
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 00:32:00 -
[54] - Quote
If the situation with the homeworld was finally sorted i wouldnt mind a memorial for that day a year ago. Loss of life was tremendous. The destruction of titan, meant an end to the liberation of the homeworld and return of the occupiers of 4 years ago. So to some of us ,the memorial at the moment, reminds us of a defeat and return of the old enemy.
Until there is an end to Federation rule on the homeworld ill oppose the Federation.
The memorial between the Roden goverment and Ishukone shows that they can work together and co-operate, maybe trust each other little. Im sure Roden goverment feel that its much easier dealing with Ishukone, rather than the other megacorporations.
I dont see any deal with regards their occupation and control of our homeworld happening in the near future. For the Roden goverment to agree a deal to hand back their 50% of the sovereignty of homeworld, would be i think political suicide for their party at the next elections.
Also i think Roden & Ishukone are both quite happy with the current treaty. I never see the Federation in the future agreeing to ever hand back their half. Only that they may take our half away at somepoint in the future. For political or national security reasons.
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
4394
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 01:34:00 -
[55] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:The memorial between the Roden goverment and Ishukone shows that they can work together and co-operate, maybe trust each other little. Im sure Roden goverment feel that its much easier dealing with Ishukone, rather than the other megacorporations. That's entirely a fault of the other megacorporations, not Ishukone or the Federal Senate. For the last five - going on six - years, Ishukone corporation have been the only people even willing to entertain the prospect of talking with the Federation. Meanwhile, Ishukone have become pariahs among their own people, despite the fact that the destruction of their corporate headquarters in Malkalen was used as a ralllying call for war.
If Ishukone feels that it can trust our Senate more than it can trust its fellow Okusaiken, the fault may not lie with the Federation Senate or with Ishukone. Mane 614
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3378
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Posted - 2014.03.24 05:00:00 -
[56] - Quote
There's a good way to tell when a man is oversimplifying a complex issue. That telltale is when he says that X is "entirely the fault of" or "entirely due to" when it's a complex play of factors.
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Richard Masseri
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
1
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Posted - 2014.03.24 19:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
I'm pleased that this has been done, l hope this will eventually lead to better relations between the Federation and State. And maybe a toning down of right wing views on both sides, well a man can dream.
Fallen Gallente and Caldari rest in peace. |
Rouen-Michel en Lefevre
1011
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 19:33:00 -
[58] - Quote
Ishukone pursuing a level of independent activity is at least somewhat reassuring. The more decentralized the State becomes, the more it is recovering from Heth. That being said, it seems likely that this is being significantly overreacted to. There is yet little reason to assume anything remarkable is taking place beyond what is required to administrate the Caldari sections of the planet and unveiling the monument. |
Lyckeus Morre
Straight Edged Mercantile Inc.
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 20:07:00 -
[59] - Quote
I was there on the 1yr Anniversary. As we flew past Caldari Prime, the history read aloud, I could not help but see the scars on the planet... The conversations above are from both parties, but I cannot help but point the following out...
Who ordered the Titan to Fire on the Planet? The State Did. Who was willing to slaughter everyone on the surface regardless of faction? The State Did...
Any yet who complains that the visitors are destroying monuments, or occupying their Homeworld? The State Does.
Perhaps instead of complaining, the State needs to do some Apologizing. At the very least, they owe their own people it. After all, you, The State, were willing to burn your very own homeworld. Not surprised that some feds are redecorating your monuments.
May all Rest in Peace. If your guns like us more, chances are, our guns wont hate you any less... |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3384
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 21:16:00 -
[60] - Quote
You want an apology Lyckeus?
Okay. I'm sorry you continue to try to steal our Homeworld from us, I'm sorry that you were stupid enough to fire on a ship that big in low orbit and I'm sorry we waited as long as we did before we sent those dreadnoughts straight to hell.
Who ordered the Titan to fire on the planet? Heth did. Who refused to fire? Admiral Yanala did - so at worst this one is a wash.
Who was willing to slaughter everyone on the surface regardless of faction? Well, actually, given that the Caldari Navy refused the order to fire on Home, the only people who put civilians at risk that day was the Federal Navy. And by 'put them at risk' I mean demolished their homes, set fire to them and irradiated them. This one comes out against the Federation.
As far as desecrating monuments to the dead, well, we already know that there's nothing the Federation holds sacred, so it's not a huge surprise. Just don't be surprised when we catch the people doing it, interrogate them, and some of them turn out to be in Blaque's pay. We won't - we've had first hand experience of Black Eagle tactics.
The rest of the perpetrators can look forward to a nice jail term where they'll finally contribute in a meaningful way to society through the work programs. Perhaps even scrubbing and repairing desecrated shrines and monuments - wouldn't that be nice?
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