Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
3091
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 21:55:00 -
[61] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote: As far as desecrating monuments to the dead, well, we already know that there's nothing the Federation holds sacred, so it's not a huge surprise. Just don't be surprised when we catch the people doing it, interrogate them, and some of them turn out to be in Blaque's pay. We won't - we've had first hand experience of Black Eagle tactics.
The rest of the perpetrators can look forward to a nice jail term where they'll finally contribute in a meaningful way to society through the work programs. Perhaps even scrubbing and repairing desecrated shrines and monuments - wouldn't that be nice?
I would be wholly in favor of execution, actually.
If you disrespect the dead like that, you should join them. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
220
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 22:18:00 -
[62] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote: As far as desecrating monuments to the dead, well, we already know that there's nothing the Federation holds sacred, so it's not a huge surprise. Just don't be surprised when we catch the people doing it, interrogate them, and some of them turn out to be in Blaque's pay. We won't - we've had first hand experience of Black Eagle tactics.
The rest of the perpetrators can look forward to a nice jail term where they'll finally contribute in a meaningful way to society through the work programs. Perhaps even scrubbing and repairing desecrated shrines and monuments - wouldn't that be nice?
I would be wholly in favor of execution, actually. If you disrespect the dead like that, you should join them. Right after they clean and repair the monuments.
Not all of us are as shallow as we are made out to be. The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
4408
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 22:56:00 -
[63] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:we already know that there's nothing the Federation holds sacred, so it's not a huge surprise. Oh look, another ugly and completely inaccurate generalisation made by a person who well and truly should be above such things. Mane 614
|
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2292
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 23:29:00 -
[64] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote: As far as desecrating monuments to the dead, well, we already know that there's nothing the Federation holds sacred, so it's not a huge surprise.
This is pretty spot on, we don't hold anything sacred. Well other than freedom, individualism, equality, opportunity, democracy, representation, citizenship, awareness, participation, suffrage, activism, dignity, justice, solidarity, responsibility, and any awesome thing that ends in a "y" you can think of-y.
But aside from that, nope. Not a single value, not a single thing sacred. Honestly we're just horrible people.
This is why the Federation must be destroyed. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3386
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 02:51:00 -
[65] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:we already know that there's nothing the Federation holds sacred, so it's not a huge surprise. Oh look, another ugly and completely inaccurate generalisation made by a person who well and truly should be above such things. Can't you just let me be angry sometimes? |
Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
220
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 02:57:00 -
[66] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:we already know that there's nothing the Federation holds sacred, so it's not a huge surprise. Oh look, another ugly and completely inaccurate generalisation made by a person who well and truly should be above such things. Can't you just let me be angry sometimes? No. They would most likely die from a brain aneurysm if they let angry comments go unflamed. The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
Lyckeus Morre
Straight Edged Mercantile Inc.
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 02:57:00 -
[67] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:You want an apology Lyckeus?
No. I was still in the Amarr Slave Pens when this went down. But I still made the trek to pay my respects to the Dead, rgardless of side.
I was mearly pointing out the overall, not the details, so that is my mistake.
Oh, execution is a bit much. Make them clean them and restore them. If you just execute them, how long till the ones you miss escalate from graffiti to practicing demoltion skills...
Just a thought. If your guns like us more, chances are, our guns wont hate you any less... |
Jace Sarice
Sarshitra Corporation
227
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:34:00 -
[68] - Quote
Despite their periodic attempts to demonstrate otherwise, Ishukone execs aren't idiots. People are reading way too much into this. -á |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3386
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 16:59:00 -
[69] - Quote
Lyckeus Morre wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:You want an apology Lyckeus? No. I was still in the Amarr Slave Pens when this went down. But I still made the trek to pay my respects to the Dead, rgardless of side. I was mearly pointing out the overall, not the details, so that is my mistake. Oh, execution is a bit much. Make them clean them and restore them. If you just execute them, how long till the ones you miss escalate from graffiti to practicing demoltion skills... Just a thought.
I agree, regarding execution, incidentally. But you were flat out wrong, not slightly mistaken. |
Jace Sarice
Sarshitra Corporation
525
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 19:38:00 -
[70] - Quote
Besides people reading too much into this, they are also literally interpreting the event incorrectly. The monument was jointly commissioned and funded by the CEP and Federation Senate. This was not something that Ishukone did on their own. They mediated the deal that granted part of Caldari Prime back to the State and they currently hold administrative responsibilities. Nothing more, nothing less. So, we'll go no more a roving So late into the night, Though the heart be still as loving, And the moon be still as bright. |
|
TomHorn
Dragonaurs
200
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 19:53:00 -
[71] - Quote
Quote:Jace[quote]]They mediated the deal that granted part of Caldari Prime back to the State and they currently hold administrative responsibilities. Nothing more, nothing less
Im going have to pick you up on that Jace. Thats clearly false. Propaganda in favour of Ishukone. The planet was liberated yc110. When the titan was destroyed, State still had full control of the planet and its sovereingty.
They agreed to ceasefire. Ended up signing treaty i think few days later. In that treaty they agreed to give half the sovereignty of the planet away.
They gave 50% away, not get 50% back. I know it sounds better for you liberals that way, that is not the case. You did not have the guts to keep on fighting for whole planet, make them pay in blood for every inch they wanted.
You gave it away Jace, you gave it away goddam it jace . |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3386
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:02:00 -
[72] - Quote
It's a little more complex than that. We had de facto control over the whole planet, but de jure control over none of it before Ishukone's deal. After the deal we gave up de facto control over half the planet, but the half we retained control over became ours de jure - through force of law, not just force of arms, you see?
Military experts had known for some time that the threat of the Shiigeru was only going to work for so long as the Federation proved unwilling to pay the price of removing it - once they went all in, there was no way to retain our foothold on the planet by force. Overwhelming Federal forces took just about the entire Navy and we had lost our ability to reinforce in strength.
De facto control is only half the job, Tom. Until and unless you can get the other side to cede de jure control you really haven't finished the job - and that's what caused the whole thing to come crashing down, in the end, only half the job was done. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
4413
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:08:00 -
[73] - Quote
And in case you hadn't guessed, Tom, shooting at us isn't going to get you de jure control of the other half. Mane 614
|
TomHorn
Dragonaurs
200
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:16:00 -
[74] - Quote
Maybe so Pieter, they gave 50% away so they could keep 50% with de jure control. For me he is twisting the truth.
Full job was done Pieter, back in yc110. Fact that the Federation decided to break an international treaty and attack Caldari sovereingty, only two ways to handle that situation. You fight to keep what is rightfully yours or you give it up. They gave it up, gave away 50% to keep de jure control over the other 50%.
|
TomHorn
Dragonaurs
200
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:23:00 -
[75] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:And in case you hadn't guessed, Tom, shooting at us isn't going to get you de jure control of the other half.
Not doing it isnt going to get us back the other half either. Price for keeping it should be paid in Gallante blood, on the ground in the homeworld and throughtout the Federation. Carried out by the Caldari freedom/resistance fighters. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
4414
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:23:00 -
[76] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:Full job was done Pieter, back in yc110. Fact that the Federation decided to break an international treaty and attack Caldari sovereingty Who else do we know who broke international treaties to attack someone else's sovereignty?
Oh, wait, what was that? His name was Heth, and he did it for the very same planet, and subsequently the majority of planets in Placid?
Perish the thought.
TomHorn wrote:only two ways to handle that situation. You fight to keep what is rightfully yours or you give it up. They gave it up, gave away 50% to keep de jure control over the other 50%. I see you're still clinging to the abject delusion that Heth and the Provists could have maintained control of any part of Caldari Prime once the Shiigeru was gone. Mane 614
|
Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
225
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:37:00 -
[77] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:And in case you hadn't guessed, Tom, shooting at us isn't going to get you de jure control of the other half. Not doing it isnt going to get us back the other half either. Price for keeping it should be paid in Gallante blood, on the ground in the homeworld and throughtout the Federation. Carried out by the Caldari freedom/resistance fighters. Who you would call terrorists Andreus. When you hold something that does not belong to you, and your unreasonable, you have to expect consequences. It won't be Gallente blood that buys back your world. You over estimate your ability while under estimating ours, this course of action would lead to disaster for your people. Thankfully, your leaders see that. The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
TomHorn
Dragonaurs
200
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:38:00 -
[78] - Quote
You seem to think it would of been cake walk. Your just going walk in take over a whole planet. People who the majority hate you with fanatacism and had control on the ground. Would of took years, cost in lives millions,maybe billions yours as well as ours. All the time the navy would of been trying to work away to get their capital ships back into the solar system. Take back control of the airspace.
Toughnut to crack.
|
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
4414
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 21:00:00 -
[79] - Quote
You're just regurgitating Provist propaganda at this point, most of which is outright wrong, so I'm not even going to bother.
Sufficed to say, the fact that Ishukone decided to negotiate rather than scream and stamp their feet like spoilt children (i.e. the standard Provist modus operandi) neatly sidestepped all of these issues, restored peace to the planet and secured the Caldari claim on one half of the planet better than it's had at any point in the last two centuries. Mane 614
|
Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
226
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 21:04:00 -
[80] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:You seem to think it would of been cake walk. Your just going walk in take over a whole planet. People who the majority hate you with fanatacism and had control on the ground. Would of took years, cost in lives millions,maybe billions yours as well as ours. All the time the navy would of been trying to work away to get their capital ships back into the solar system. Take back control of the airspace.
Toughnut to crack.
Never said it would be easy, or that we where even aiming to take complete control of the planet. From my perspective, the whole thing seemed less conquest, and more quarantine and insurance against direct hostility. That worked until Heath took power. Now that hostilities have somewhat died down again the Gallente are slowly returning the planet back to the caldari, possibly hoping to further damper the support for the war. Gunfire is unneeded at this point, time, politic and understanding can solve this.
If you really need a cause to fight for there are plenty of pirates about that could use a beating. The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
|
TomHorn
Dragonaurs
200
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 21:58:00 -
[81] - Quote
Just telling the truth Andreus, while removing the spin of the Liberals.
Quote:Gallente are slowly returning the planet back to the caldari,
I dont see any sign of that. Been one year i dont see anything of that Claudia.
Quote:Gunfire is unneeded at this point, time, politic and understanding can solve this.
I really have my doubts that it can Claudia. In the end, those who want rid of Federation, will have to wait for a patriot to come along again and take it by force once more. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
3093
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 22:06:00 -
[82] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:Quote:Gallente are slowly returning the planet back to the caldari, I dont see any sign of that. Been one year i dont see anything of that Claudia.
Visit the city of Arcurio. It's in a Material Acquisition administrated district, yet its population is almost if not already majority Caldari. It's administrated in the Caldari way, it's design and structure is Caldari, its businesses and major culture is Caldari. 47% of the population there register Caldari heritage, and only 28% Gallente.
Caldari Prime is not the hotbed of Federation influence you seem to think it is. Five years of Provist occupation made damn sure to cleanse it of that. Today, it's mostly Caldari in nature, even with 46% (minority) of the planet under Federation administration.
Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
227
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 22:09:00 -
[83] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:Just telling the truth Andreus, while removing the spin of the Liberals. Quote:Gallente are slowly returning the planet back to the caldari, I dont see any sign of that. Been one year i dont see anything of that Claudia. Quote:Gunfire is unneeded at this point, time, politic and understanding can solve this. I really have my doubts that it can Claudia. In the end, those who want rid of Federation, will have to wait for a patriot to come along again and take it by force once more. Well, with people like you and Kim screaming for blood and bullets and the difficulty of dealing with a modular government like the state, one can't expect fast results and still be considered to be dwelling in the in the realm of reality. The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
TomHorn
Dragonaurs
200
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 23:31:00 -
[84] - Quote
Quote:Caldari Prime is not the hotbed of Federation influence you seem to think it is. Five years of Provist occupation made damn sure to cleanse it of that. Today, it's mostly Caldari in nature, even with 46% (minority) of the planet under Federation administration.
Thats the problem though Kat, they dont deserve, or have any right to have 46% of the planet under Federation administration. That is Federation occupation of our homeworld. We can agree on that Kat ?
|
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3381
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 01:12:00 -
[85] - Quote
We can, but the practical fact of the matter is that the alternative is 100% occupation. Operation Highlander proved that much.
A lesson that I took away from both that and Colelie is a little adage: "Never brawl with a Moros at optimal. In other words, whatever you do, when you're fighting Gallentean ships, do not let them control the engagement range. While that may be broadly true for all ships, when it comes to blaster-and-drone Gallentean vessels, it's absolutely critical. If you give them the home advantage, if you let them fight you on their terms, you will be ripped to tiny pieces.
Luminaire is a Federation system. THE Federation system, in many ways. Any fight there will inevitably happen on FedNav's terms, at the range they choose, under the conditions they choose. Any other navy, you might still be able to turn that disadvantage around. Not the Gallenteans.
And any defence of Home is inevitably going to involve being on the defensive. That means they get to jump Moroses in where they want them, get to warp Megathrons in where they'll do the most harm.
We took the planet by force. We're never going to HOLD it by force. that 46% is the reminder that if we want Home to be 100% Caldari ever again, we're going to need to engage the Federation in an arena where it doesn't hold all the cards, as it does in a fleet fight on home turf.
And for now, it may not be ideal, but it's tolerable. It's progress over where we used to be, and toward where we want to be. Occupation it may be, but it's an occupation that must be accepted and endured for the time being. Because the alternative, to be blunt, is to lose Home again. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
3095
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 01:58:00 -
[86] - Quote
TomHorn wrote: Thats the problem though Kat, they dont deserve, or have any right to have 46% of the planet under Federation administration. That is Federation occupation of our homeworld. We can agree on that Kat ?
We agree completely. Unfortunately, as Stitcher said - we would have lost Caldari Prime completely thanks to Highlander. It was a military defeat, and no amount of politicizing can change that. Better to hold 54% of the planet than 0%, for now.
The only other two options are to win the war and take Luminaire completely, as Diana Kim wants. Or...
We can arrange an end to hostilities and slowly gain control of Caldari Prime through other means. I'm surprised nobody has really considered this, that they think Ishukone is going to be content with only 54%. Material Acquisitions is a company, a rival company, and we all know what happens to rival companies when they face off against the Okusaika. Have some faith in us.
We may not take over the planet through force of arms - but we can take over the planet by taking over the rival company. Until now, that has never been a possibility. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
958
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 03:22:00 -
[87] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:TomHorn wrote:Quote:Gallente are slowly returning the planet back to the caldari, I dont see any sign of that. Been one year i dont see anything of that Claudia. Visit the city of Arcurio. It's in a Material Acquisition administrated district, yet its population is almost if not already majority Caldari. It's administrated in the Caldari way, it's design and structure is Caldari, its businesses and major culture is Caldari. 47% of the population there register Caldari heritage, and only 28% Gallente. Caldari Prime is not the hotbed of Federation influence you seem to think it is. Five years of Provist occupation made damn sure to cleanse it of that. Today, it's mostly Caldari in nature, even with 46% (minority) of the planet under Federation administration. Correction: 46% is under Federation occupation. |
Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
231
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 03:35:00 -
[88] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Katrina Oniseki wrote:TomHorn wrote:Quote:Gallente are slowly returning the planet back to the caldari, I dont see any sign of that. Been one year i dont see anything of that Claudia. Visit the city of Arcurio. It's in a Material Acquisition administrated district, yet its population is almost if not already majority Caldari. It's administrated in the Caldari way, it's design and structure is Caldari, its businesses and major culture is Caldari. 47% of the population there register Caldari heritage, and only 28% Gallente. Caldari Prime is not the hotbed of Federation influence you seem to think it is. Five years of Provist occupation made damn sure to cleanse it of that. Today, it's mostly Caldari in nature, even with 46% (minority) of the planet under Federation administration. Correction: 46% is under Federation occupation. Semantics The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
James Syagrius
Fire In The NIght
845
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:23:00 -
[89] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:And for now, it may not be ideal, but it's tolerable. It's progress over where we used to be, and toward where we want to be. Occupation it may be, but it's an occupation that must be accepted and endured for the time being. Because the alternative, to be blunt, is to lose Home again.
Katrina Oniseki wrote:TomHorn wrote: Thats the problem though Kat, they dont deserve, or have any right to have 46% of the planet under Federation administration. That is Federation occupation of our homeworld. We can agree on that Kat ?
We agree completely. Unfortunately, as Stitcher said - we would have lost Caldari Prime completely thanks to Highlander. We can arrange an end to hostilities and slowly gain control of Caldari Prime through other means. I'm surprised nobody has really considered this, that they think Ishukone is going to be content with only 54%. Material Acquisitions is a company, a rival company, and we all know what happens to rival companies when they face off against the Okusaika. Have some faith in us. We may not take over the planet through force of arms - but we can take over the planet by taking over the rival company. Until now, that has never been a possibility. I respect both of you for your opinions on a variety of matters.
I also appreciate your measured contributions to the discussion on the disposition of Caldari Prime and a larger peace between th State and Federation.
I must however admit that I find the tenor of your latest comments disturbing.
Is it then you position that any negotiation regarding Caldari Prime must end with it resting solely in State sovereignty?
Must thus remain a zero sum game?
I would remind you that corporations play an entirely different role in the Federation than the State.
Regardless of what corporate organization may operate within the portion of Caldari Prime retained by treaty to the Federation, it will be subject to Federal law.
Many in the Federation including myself desire an honorable peace with the State.
But it will not be a peace on your terms alone.
Our words matter and State duplicity will not be toleratedGǪ again. GǣHere also are the heralds of his praise."
-á
|
Gregory Na'Dare
The Knights of Polaris
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:53:00 -
[90] - Quote
There can be no solution that ends in peace that does not guarantee the rights of Federation citizens on Luminaire VII. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |