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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1122
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Posted - 2014.03.23 10:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Your job has to be taken by robot.
The are working on robots that paint pictures, make poetry, how long untill human race will become obsolete? In the place where I work people are just standing and punching a button, that is their work. Creative jobs like programming and design are made by 2 people and its enough with programming tools they have, but how long until artificial intelligence will take over their jobs? Edit signature? What's the point? |
Aspalis
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
510
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Posted - 2014.03.23 11:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
The obligatory post in a thread like this. |
Abyss Azizora
Ominous Holding
85
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Posted - 2014.03.23 11:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Good, cheaper products. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
110581
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Posted - 2014.03.23 12:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Abyss Azizora wrote:Good, cheaper products.
But will you even have the means to buy them ??? "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Bobble Hat
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
255
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Posted - 2014.03.23 12:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thankfully based on the diabolical state of our automated test systems I am in no danger :P Schr+¦dinger's cat walks into a bar... And dosen't - Obligatory signature joke. |
Graygor
1kB Realty 1kB Galactic
110546
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Posted - 2014.03.23 12:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
So lets get the old betting board out.
Are we going Terminator way or Herbert's Dune way? "I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." --áKenneth O'Hara
"I dont think that can happen, you can see Gray has his invuln field on in his portrait." - Commisar Kate |
Rouen-Michel en Lefevre
541
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Posted - 2014.03.23 14:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thankfully, my job will be safe.
Also, Dune-way. |
stoicfaux
4247
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Posted - 2014.03.23 16:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
Graygor wrote:So lets get the old betting board out.
Are we going Terminator way or Herbert's Dune way? Neither. The switch to having all work done by robots/computers won't be instant. Which means that at some point a large proportion of our society will be unemployed, e.g. 50% unemployment and 50% of work done by robots/computers. The unemployed will be homeless/starving/in extreme poverty before they can benefit from the fruits of a society where all work is done by robots/computers. Society will collapse in the riots. No society, no infrastructure. No infrastructure, no food and electricity.
Maybe the next society to emerge from The Dark Ages 2.0 will get it right.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1122
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Posted - 2014.03.23 16:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
I had read many russian novels that described this problem. In one of them robots were so advanced that they made it to another star system together with their human creators. Humans evolved thru millenia and were generations away from the starting people. When they landed on planet that was inhabited by alien sentient beings, they were decribed by alien race as parasites feeding on ship systems, brains were small and intelectual properties were similar to a dog for them. Aliens were in awe at creators of the ships, and did in fact made discovery that those humans on the ship were their evolved form. "Humans" together with aparature were taken away to "zoo", because there was no point in discussing anything with them. Edit signature? What's the point? |
XNCReman
Soviet Directorate of Eve
35
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Posted - 2014.03.23 17:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
And you thought raising the minimum wage is a good idea |
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Bronden Neopatus
Aliastra Gallente Federation
30
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Posted - 2014.03.23 17:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
Human consumers are overrated.
Virtual robot consumers consuming virtual robot products are the way to go. |
Robby Altair
103
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Posted - 2014.03.23 17:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Robotics Age. Really miss this Magazine. Room 3420 Boelter Hall UCLA |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
297
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Posted - 2014.03.23 18:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Graygor wrote:So lets get the old betting board out.
Are we going Terminator way or Herbert's Dune way? Neither. The switch to having all work done by robots/computers won't be instant. Which means that at some point a large proportion of our society will be unemployed, e.g. 50% unemployment and 50% of work done by robots/computers. The unemployed will be homeless/starving/in extreme poverty before they can benefit from the fruits of a society where all work is done by robots/computers. Society will collapse in the riots. No society, no infrastructure. No infrastructure, no food and electricity. Maybe the next society to emerge from The Dark Ages 2.0 will get it right. Unless the governments provide sufficient unemployment payments that the unemployed can live comfortably and the problems will be solved.
When the free market won't solve a problem, then it is the duty of governments to step in and solve it. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1122
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Posted - 2014.03.23 18:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
How far away we are from that idea http://www.theoldrobots.com/book50/Robotics_AGE_Vol_5-3.JPG to a 3D printer robots that can be mobile and create another robots from scratch. Edit signature? What's the point? |
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra Gallente Federation
247
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Posted - 2014.03.23 23:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
If it comes to this, we just have to change the economic system. No, not to communism, which failed. But we could develop a new one that allows for the fact that people won't work for their living anymore, because there is nothing that can't be done better by a machine twenty years from now (or so little that it can't carry an economy, like 5% employment rate). Capitalism had a good run for about 200 years, it's about time we start thinking about its successor. I got lost in thought... it was unfamiliar territory. |
Graygor
1kB Realty 1kB Galactic
110615
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Posted - 2014.03.24 03:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Graygor wrote:So lets get the old betting board out.
Are we going Terminator way or Herbert's Dune way? Neither. The switch to having all work done by robots/computers won't be instant. Which means that at some point a large proportion of our society will be unemployed, e.g. 50% unemployment and 50% of work done by robots/computers. The unemployed will be homeless/starving/in extreme poverty before they can benefit from the fruits of a society where all work is done by robots/computers. Society will collapse in the riots. No society, no infrastructure. No infrastructure, no food and electricity. Maybe the next society to emerge from The Dark Ages 2.0 will get it right.
Ah the futurama way.
"I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." --áKenneth O'Hara
"I dont think that can happen, you can see Gray has his invuln field on in his portrait." - Commisar Kate |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
297
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Posted - 2014.03.24 03:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sebastian N Cain wrote:If it comes to this, we just have to change the economic system. No, not to communism, which failed. But we could develop a new one that allows for the fact that people won't work for their living anymore, because there is nothing that can't be done better by a machine twenty years from now (or so little that it can't carry an economy, like 5% employment rate). Capitalism had a good run for about 200 years, it's about time we start thinking about its successor. It doesn't need to be an overhaul. Just bolt on something to ensure that the unemployed majority have sufficient income to keep the economy flowing for those who are employed. Basic income is one possibility. Every citizen receives a regular, unconditional, payment from the government. If someone wants a higher income, then they need to supplement in some way, probably by finding paid employment.
If you want to replace capitalism, I'd like to hear what the alternative system could be and, more importantly, how the transition would work. |
Rouen-Michel en Lefevre
744
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Posted - 2014.03.24 04:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
It's doubtful any transition would ever be voluntary or planned. Or happen at all, really. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1170
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Posted - 2014.03.24 08:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
One step closer to losing my job. More free time to play EVE I suppose. Edit signature? What's the point? |
Adunh Slavy
1352
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Posted - 2014.03.25 09:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:Unless the governments provide sufficient unemployment payments that the unemployed can live comfortably and the problems will be solved.
When the free market won't solve a problem, then it is the duty of governments to step in and solve it.
Yes, let's solve problems by sticking a gun in eveyone's face and force them to do what *you* want. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |
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Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
2630
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Posted - 2014.03.25 10:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
XNCReman wrote:And you thought raising the minimum wage is a good idea
I will bite troll. The reason the minimum wage needs to be raised is that corporations have raised the prices of their products to reflect inflation but have not done so with the wages....across most of the board. So this has absolutely nothing to do with rasing the minimum wage. Increasing the efficiency of the production line has always been about minimizing man power. Nothing new here so move along.
EDIT: Also I will suggest that you go read The Wealth of Nations so you can understand....you do not need to read the whole thing if you are unable to. The main point I bring up is covered fairly early on, and you may just acquire new troll bait |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1181
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Posted - 2014.03.25 10:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
I don't know if you ever heard about the idea of Eden. One particular kind of Eden that is similar to a golden cage. You know, you are allowed to eat and reproduce, but with a "personal advisor" a God like entity, maybe even robotic AI. The idea of evil dissapeared for a cost of living a stable, healthy life and expressing yourself with creations, painting, making others happy. Every act considered offensive punished severely by throving someone out of the Eden. Monstrous or perfect? At least it is something plausible to some extend, when you don't have to expect famine, cold, boredom, but again being uniformly treated as averybody else by the "voice in the heavens". What would you do? Rebel or go on with creating the work of your life? Thru art, music, poetry, expanding your knowledge, perfecting the body?
I know couple of cults that made people think they will have this in afterlife, an "Eden" thing, but making them similar to zombies because all they want was their money and work for free. Caged minds for their own "good"?
No, i am not Sansha recruiter. Edit signature? What's the point? |
Bhaal
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2014.03.25 13:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
Quote:Unless the governments provide sufficient unemployment payments that the unemployed can live comfortably and the problems will be solved.
Being unemployed should not be comfortable, if it is then all you're doing is breeding more entitled sloths who look to the government to hand them a nice life. If you want a nice life you have to work for it, you're not entitled to one just because you were born a human on the planet earth.
Also, working for minimum wage should not be comfortable either. Minimum wage jobs are not careers and should not be viewed as such. Minimum wage jobs do not, and should not afford the employee the ability to raise a family, careers are required for such life goals. This is all common sense that many socialists/communists fail to grasp. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1188
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Posted - 2014.03.25 13:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
Bhaal wrote:Being unemployed should not be comfortable, if it is then all you're doing is breeding more entitled sloths who look to the government to hand them a nice life. If you want a nice life you have to work for it, you're not entitled to one just because you were born a human on the planet earth. Problem is, if we will consider even doing complete mechanised factories and farms and then they will be maintained by AI, when work will be done by the robots, the concept of work for money and for living will be outdated. We will need new model for society. Eden? We should fear that people and generally society model will not change so fast as technology is changing. Edit signature? What's the point? |
Bhaal
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2014.03.25 13:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Bhaal wrote:Being unemployed should not be comfortable, if it is then all you're doing is breeding more entitled sloths who look to the government to hand them a nice life. If you want a nice life you have to work for it, you're not entitled to one just because you were born a human on the planet earth. Problem is, if we will consider even doing complete mechanised factories and farms and then they will be maintained by AI, when work will be done by the robots, the concept of work for money and for living will be outdated. We will need new model for society. Eden? We should fear that people and generally society model will not change so fast as technology is changing.
There is going to be a rough transition away from a monetary economy/society at some point I suspect, where it ends up, damn, who knows. I guess we're all lucky that we probably will not live through that. And to try to predict where things will go from our current vantage point, I think is a useless endeavor. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1190
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Posted - 2014.03.25 13:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Bhaal wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Bhaal wrote:Being unemployed should not be comfortable, if it is then all you're doing is breeding more entitled sloths who look to the government to hand them a nice life. If you want a nice life you have to work for it, you're not entitled to one just because you were born a human on the planet earth. Problem is, if we will consider even doing complete mechanised factories and farms and then they will be maintained by AI, when work will be done by the robots, the concept of work for money and for living will be outdated. We will need new model for society. Eden? We should fear that people and generally society model will not change so fast as technology is changing. There is going to be a rough transition away from a monetary economy/society at some point I suspect, where it ends up, damn, who knows. I guess we're all lucky that we probably will not live through that. And to try to predict where things will go from our current vantage point, I think is a useless endeavor. History teaches us, that often what we predicted was only partially true, or partially false, there is no way we will know it all. What we need to do, is to act regarding our fellow man and ourselves in this whole technological heaven/hell. But then again, i think people will not grow up to that, and there will be many poor people left there on streets doing mischeef. Edit signature? What's the point? |
Slymah
Reoples
200
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Posted - 2014.03.25 15:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
I wish a robot would/could do my job |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1193
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Posted - 2014.03.25 17:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
Quote:I wish a robot would/could do my job
If you could afford that robot today, who will be taking the money, I expect that you will be taking those, not a robot. What will you do with those money? Maybe you will pay for maintenance to another man with his robot, and food for yourself, food that will be produced by another robot, that is someone elses property.
In the end people will just giving money from hand to hand and robots will work for free, maintained by other robots. Why these money in the first place, when mechanized slavery could take care of itself in the end, and with AI for sure.
When mechanized factories, mines, farms producing goods and resources will be used to produce for everybody for free, food taken to the doors by drones, and personal advisor in their mind will count calories for them, what property would have those people that would be fated to consume those goods, what will be their role in this all? Will they be just a thinking, artsy mass with full bellies, crazed with inflicting pleasure on themselves?
I think that when you take away every work from a man, put him into only a consumer role, he starts to wander why he lives, what has meaning in his life, and why it has this meaning. Educated to be respectful to others, educated to be obedient, educated to think like you should think, a man thinking like his creation the "advisor", to be perfectly logical and sane, every thought compliant with personal "advisor", or else... what else? Humans being compliant with robots or what?
Maybe it is best to take the blue pill after all. Look at all this mess. At least we have choice now, but future generations? I don't know. Maybe there will be no red pill to take, and that will be the cruel reality of Eden... Edit signature? What's the point? |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1096
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Posted - 2014.03.25 21:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
So robots continue to streamline our menial labor without ever taking over the actual creative aspect. They get the blue collar work and consistently remain absent from the white collar work. How is this a sign that we're gonna lose our white collar jobs to robots?
The only issue I have with robots doing all my work is I won't get the money and some rich person who owns the robots will expect me to pay for their existence. Of course that's a sociopolitical problem that exists in almost every powerful society that has a few centuries to develop it. It's not a problem with robots. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1196
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Posted - 2014.03.25 21:46:00 -
[30] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:So robots continue to streamline our menial labor without ever taking over the actual creative aspect. They get the blue collar work and consistently remain absent from the white collar work. How is this a sign that we're gonna lose our white collar jobs to robots?
The only issue I have with robots doing all my work is I won't get the money and some rich person who owns the robots will expect me to pay for their existence. Of course that's a sociopolitical problem that exists in almost every powerful society that has a few centuries to develop it. It's not a problem with robots.
As for a sign that we're gonna lose our white collar jobs to robots, we would first need to develop AI. There is concept of technological singularity regarding AI, you should read about it. Also there are people willing to develop it and pay for developing it, as I posted before.
As you noticed, it is not a problem with robots, the problem lies in human nature. Some rich person who owns the robots will have to expect that you will not pay for anything, because you would not have a job and money in the first place. The answer is probably an existence of machines that can be upholded only by selfsuficiency, and producing for the humans with nothing in return. That concept is opossed by people, its not "fair" for them, because now they need to price their work, in future howewer.... I don't know. But if they will not change, than for that kind of thinking you would probably need personality that is selfless, you would need something like particular kind of AI. Edit signature? What's the point? |
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