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Cannibal Kane
Cannibal Empire
3401
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 21:27:00 -
[31] - Quote
LordOfDespair wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Admits to creating botting functionality.
Attempts to defend doing so.
Nice knowing you. Macro isn't the same as bot. I only asked a question, Don't dramatize.
There was a thread on the forums a long time ago about somebody getting banned for using his Keyboard or mouse (can't Remember) build in macro functions. It basically allowed him to warp to 0 to gate jump and repeat until he reached his destination.
In any event. I have already logged a petition for botting using this thread as evidence. Since you said you already made it. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. He flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. His hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. It was truly majestic. And while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off. Because I am like that." - NEONOVUS |
LordOfDespair
Capsuleer Combat Training Services
9
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Posted - 2014.03.23 21:37:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Admits to creating botting functionality.
Attempts to defend doing so.
Nice knowing you. Macro isn't the same as bot. I only asked a question, Don't dramatize. There was a thread on the forums a long time ago about somebody getting banned for using his Keyboard or mouse (can't Remember) build in macro functions. It basically allowed him to warp to 0 to gate jump and repeat until he reached his destination. In any event. I have already logged a petition for botting using this thread as evidence. Since you said you already made it.
I've always wondered if abusing painkillers is illegal, oh and I have some in my medicine cabinet.
Why don't you call the police and also report that while you are at it? |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
493
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 21:37:00 -
[33] - Quote
Tippia wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:The EULA says you cannot automate if it " facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play"
So technically it isn't against the rules. Sure it is. You get to where you're going faster than if you had left the ship to its own devices. Quote:But I still don't understand how ISboxer isn't. Because it doesn't let you gain anything at an accelerated rate and because it only responds 1:1 to direct user input.
It responds 1:1 to direct user input for dozens of open windows at the same time. When 20 mining ships all lock a rock and activate their lasers within the same microsecond of each other, that is by definition an accelerated rate. Going over 20 screens and manually locking and activating would take much much longer. Also I don't believe for a second that someone running a 20 character mining fleet is going window to window to empty their cargoholds. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
LordOfDespair
Capsuleer Combat Training Services
9
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Posted - 2014.03.23 21:39:00 -
[34] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Tippia wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:The EULA says you cannot automate if it " facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play"
So technically it isn't against the rules. Sure it is. You get to where you're going faster than if you had left the ship to its own devices. Quote:But I still don't understand how ISboxer isn't. Because it doesn't let you gain anything at an accelerated rate and because it only responds 1:1 to direct user input. It responds 1:1 to direct user input for dozens of open windows at the same time. When 20 mining ships all lock a rock and activate their lasers within the same microsecond of each other, that is by definition an accelerated rate. Going over 20 screens and manually locking and activating would take much much longer. Also I don't believe for a second that someone running a 20 character mining fleet is going window to window to empty their cargoholds.
Its obvious that ISboxer gives an unfair advantage. The rules are dumb. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3348
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 21:40:00 -
[35] - Quote
So, why bother asking on the forums in the first place, if when we all say "yes, it's against the rules" you get your jimmies rustled by the answer?
Or are you just fishing for an immediate ban when a dev sees this thread instead? Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20211
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Posted - 2014.03.23 21:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:It responds 1:1 to direct user input for dozens of open windows at the same time. GǪand all that matters is the 1:1 rate.
Quote:When 20 mining ships all lock a rock and activate their lasers within the same microsecond of each other, that is by definition an accelerated rate. No, it's not, since any other 20 ships would gain the same amount of ore in the same amount of time GÇö i.e. at the same rate. Even multi-boxing it manually would yield the same rate, only staggered. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
LordOfDespair
Capsuleer Combat Training Services
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 21:46:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tippia wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:It responds 1:1 to direct user input for dozens of open windows at the same time. GǪand all that matters is the 1:1 rate. Quote:When 20 mining ships all lock a rock and activate their lasers within the same microsecond of each other, that is by definition an accelerated rate. No, it's not, since any other 20 ships would gain the same amount of ore in the same amount of time GÇö i.e. at the same rate. Even multi-boxing it manually would yield the same rate, only staggered.
Auto clicking the warp button will get you to the destination at the same speed as if you sat there and did it yourself.
ISboxing lets you use 20 accounts perfectly where as trying to do it without would be extremely hard or impossible.
One does the same thing as before, another is able to do much more than before.
The advantage is obvious.
This thread is now more about why ISboxer is allowed while other things aren't.
If you are going to ban one, ban them all. Why does ISboxer get special privileges? |
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
847
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 21:52:00 -
[38] - Quote
use macro set time in the interval between 1/5 random sec this is most accurate you can get to a human click. But if its forbidden i don`t know. i don`t use macro`s or program`s |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20211
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 21:52:00 -
[39] - Quote
LordOfDespair wrote:Auto clicking the warp button will get you to the destination at the same speed as if you sat there and did it yourself. GǪbut faster than if you didn't use the macro, since doing so would leave you hanging in space for long periods of time. So: at an accelerated speed.
If you want to travel at the faster speed, you have to do exactly what you describe and sit there. If you want to travel while AFK, you have to use the autopilot. Travelling as if at the keyboard when you're AFK is what makes it a violation of the EULA.
Quote:ISboxing lets you use 20 accounts perfectly where as trying to do it without would be extremely hard or impossible. One does the same thing as before, another is able to do much more than before. No. One does something that can't be done before; the other does the same as any other 20 accounts in the same situation.
Quote:The advantage is obvious. The advantage of the macro is obvious, yes, which is why they are not allowed and why people have been banned for using them.
Quote:If you are going to ban one, ban them all. Why does ISboxer get special privileges? It doesn't get any special privileges GÇö it simply doesn't break the rules.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
LordOfDespair
Capsuleer Combat Training Services
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 22:00:00 -
[40] - Quote
Tippia wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:Auto clicking the warp button will get you to the destination at the same speed as if you sat there and did it yourself. GǪbut faster than if you didn't use the macro, since doing so would leave you hanging in space for long periods of time. So: at an accelerated speed. If you want to travel at the faster speed, you have to do exactly what you describe and sit there. If you want to travel while AFK, you have to use the autopilot. Travelling as if at the keyboard when you're AFK is what makes it a violation of the EULA. Quote:ISboxing lets you use 20 accounts perfectly where as trying to do it without would be extremely hard or impossible. One does the same thing as before, another is able to do much more than before. No. One does something that can't be done before; the other does the same as any other 20 accounts in the same situation. Quote:The advantage is obvious. The advantage of the macro is obvious, yes, which is why they are not allowed and why people have been banned for using them. Quote:If you are going to ban one, ban them all. Why does ISboxer get special privileges? It doesn't get any special privileges GÇö it simply doesn't break the rules.
Flawed logic.
"One does something that can't be done before; the other does the same as any other 20 accounts in the same situation. "
Using 20 accounts perfectly is something that cannot be done before. Thus ISboxer breaks the rules. |
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I Riven I
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2014.03.23 22:02:00 -
[41] - Quote
So what you guys saying is that keith eaton and all the isds that use macro keys to answer questions on the help channel should be banned??
Because they are typing faster than what they would if they werent using macros and hotkeys.
I can have a hotkey that when i press it mines in my hulk for 23.5 hours.. its just a hotkey, not a bot.. right? |
LordOfDespair
Capsuleer Combat Training Services
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 22:05:00 -
[42] - Quote
I Riven I wrote:So what you guys saying is that keith eaton and all the isds that use macro keys to answer questions on the help channel should be banned??
Because they are typing faster than what they would if they werent using macros and hotkeys.
I can have a hotkey that when i press it mines in my hulk for 23.5 hours.. its just a hotkey, not a bot.. right?
If you go by the EULA, the hotkeys for the ISDs are not banned. Because they don't "facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status".
The same can be said about the auto clicker on the warp button, but it seems that CCP doesn't follow its own rules, because things like ISboxer are allowed and users have been banned for these kinds of macros before. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20211
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 22:12:00 -
[43] - Quote
LordOfDespair wrote:Flawed logic. Logic used by CCP. You may not like it, but it's the one you need to follow.
Quote:Using 20 accounts perfectly is something that cannot be done before. Yes it is. It's actually really really simple.
And again, 20 accounts acquiring goods at the same rate as every other group of 20 accounts means there is no accelerated rate. An AFK person traveling as fast as an at-keyboard person means there is.
Quote:The same can be said about the auto clicker on the warp button, but it seems that CCP doesn't follow its own rules, because things like ISboxer are allowed and users have been banned for these kinds of macros before. CCP aren't players, so they don't have to play by the rules. And the difference between multiboxing and macro use has already been explained. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
LordOfDespair
Capsuleer Combat Training Services
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 22:19:00 -
[44] - Quote
Tippia wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:Flawed logic. Logic used by CCP. You may not like it, but it's the one you need to follow. Quote:Using 20 accounts perfectly is something that cannot be done before. Yes it is. It's actually really really simple. And again, 20 accounts acquiring goods at the same rate as every other group of 20 accounts means there is no accelerated rate. An AFK person traveling as fast as an at-keyboard person means there is. Quote:The same can be said about the auto clicker on the warp button, but it seems that CCP doesn't follow its own rules, because things like ISboxer are allowed and users have been banned for these kinds of macros before. CCP aren't players, so they don't have to play by the rules. And the difference between multiboxing and macro use has already been explained.
A player playing on one screen, and having those actions artificially repeated onto 19 other screens is accelerated rate. They will do what they are doing 20x better than a single pilot. Without doing more "work".
ISboxer: Same work but many times more reward.
So you agree CCP logic is flawed and you still try to defend it? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20211
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 22:21:00 -
[45] - Quote
LordOfDespair wrote:A player playing on one screen, and having those actions artificially repeated onto 19 other screens is accelerated rate. No. It's still just 20 accounts working at the rate of 20 accounts. No acceleration there.
Quote:So you agree CCP logic is flawed and you still try to defend it? Nope.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Miomeifeng Alduin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 22:34:00 -
[46] - Quote
LordOfDespair wrote:Tippia wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:Flawed logic. Logic used by CCP. You may not like it, but it's the one you need to follow. Quote:Using 20 accounts perfectly is something that cannot be done before. Yes it is. It's actually really really simple. And again, 20 accounts acquiring goods at the same rate as every other group of 20 accounts means there is no accelerated rate. An AFK person traveling as fast as an at-keyboard person means there is. Quote:The same can be said about the auto clicker on the warp button, but it seems that CCP doesn't follow its own rules, because things like ISboxer are allowed and users have been banned for these kinds of macros before. CCP aren't players, so they don't have to play by the rules. And the difference between multiboxing and macro use has already been explained. A player playing on one screen, and having those actions artificially repeated onto 19 other screens is accelerated rate. They will do what they are doing 20x better than a single pilot. Without doing more "work". ISboxer: Same work but many times more reward. So you agree CCP logic is flawed and you still try to defend it?
Even if its flawed: you wont get it changed, so tough luck. They dont need to be logical, they just make the rules on which you can either accept and play, or decline and stop playing ;). Hell, they could say only non mining bots are bannable, and there's nothing you could do about it :p (not saying any bot is legal :p) |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2722
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 22:51:00 -
[47] - Quote
LordOfDespair wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:I talked to the GMs and they weren't very helpful. They were so vague and wouldn't confirm or deny anything.
They directed me to the EULA and technically what I want to do should be okay. However the ELUA is so vague also that it raises uncertainty.
I think if somebody is allowed to ISbox 20+ accounts and make billions of isk, this shouldn't really be cared about either. Fair enough, just try not to be too upset when it happens. I'll just point to the EULA and the multiboxers. And the record will show that I asked on the forums and the GMs. Multiboxers have to click. Previously CCP have stated that as long as a physical click happens it doesn't matter how many simultaneous client clicks that generates, but if a click is generated without a physical click, then it's bannable. so what you have, which is essentially an autopilot bot, is very very bannable.
If I can find the CCP quote I'll link it. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Terminator 2
Omega Boost
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 23:04:00 -
[48] - Quote
LordOfDespair wrote:I Riven I wrote:So what you guys saying is that keith eaton and all the isds that use macro keys to answer questions on the help channel should be banned??
Because they are typing faster than what they would if they werent using macros and hotkeys.
I can have a hotkey that when i press it mines in my hulk for 23.5 hours.. its just a hotkey, not a bot.. right? If you go by the EULA, the hotkeys for the ISDs are not banned. Because they don't "facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status". The same can be said about the auto clicker on the warp button, but it seems that CCP doesn't follow its own rules, because things like ISboxer are allowed and users have been banned for these kinds of macros before.
Please give a specific reference as to where CCP has announced that ISboxer is allowed to be used with EVE.
Also please enlighten us on how you have determined that certain people definitely use ISboxer and not anything else or some software at all.
Finally i'm interested on your opinion on the banwaves of macro-users that occur once every year. How do you think pointing fingers to others will spare you from having action being taken on you? |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
409
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 23:12:00 -
[49] - Quote
It is against the EULA, and the EULA was specifically reworded to include auto click scripts.
1. EXPLOITS
An immediate permanent ban of an account may result if:
a. Investigation shows that a player has employed the use of an exploit tactic despite a public announcement being made to alert players they will be banned for using it. b. A player who has been previously warned for exploiting and continues to exploit, whether using the same exploit or another. c. An account holder guilty of employing GÇ£dupingGÇ¥ exploits. Players found to have received the benefits of this exploit may also face reprimand, from removal of the items in question up to, and including, banning of their accounts. d. A player has engaged in activity that intentionally causes others to lose connection, suffer latency issues (lag) or to crash to desktop (CTD). e. A player renders himself invulnerable through the use of a bug.
f. A player has created, distributed or advertised an illegal 3rd party program (i.e. macro or cheat program) that disrupts game mechanics, is considered unfriendly or gives an unfair advantage by misusing game features in a way for which they were not intended. |
LordOfDespair
Capsuleer Combat Training Services
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 23:18:00 -
[50] - Quote
Terminator 2 wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:I Riven I wrote:So what you guys saying is that keith eaton and all the isds that use macro keys to answer questions on the help channel should be banned??
Because they are typing faster than what they would if they werent using macros and hotkeys.
I can have a hotkey that when i press it mines in my hulk for 23.5 hours.. its just a hotkey, not a bot.. right? If you go by the EULA, the hotkeys for the ISDs are not banned. Because they don't "facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status". The same can be said about the auto clicker on the warp button, but it seems that CCP doesn't follow its own rules, because things like ISboxer are allowed and users have been banned for these kinds of macros before. Please give a specific reference as to where CCP has announced that ISboxer is allowed to be used with EVE. Also please enlighten us on how you have determined that certain people definitely use ISboxer and not anything else or some software at all. Finally i'm interested on your opinion on the banwaves of macro-users that occur once every year. How do you think pointing fingers to others will spare you from having action being taken on you?
When a guy competes in the New Eden Open with ISboxer and nothing happens to him its obvious that CCP thinks its okay. |
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LordOfDespair
Capsuleer Combat Training Services
9
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Posted - 2014.03.23 23:20:00 -
[51] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:I talked to the GMs and they weren't very helpful. They were so vague and wouldn't confirm or deny anything.
They directed me to the EULA and technically what I want to do should be okay. However the ELUA is so vague also that it raises uncertainty.
I think if somebody is allowed to ISbox 20+ accounts and make billions of isk, this shouldn't really be cared about either. Fair enough, just try not to be too upset when it happens. I'll just point to the EULA and the multiboxers. And the record will show that I asked on the forums and the GMs. Multiboxers have to click. Previously CCP have stated that as long as a physical click happens it doesn't matter how many simultaneous client clicks that generates, but if a click is generated without a physical click, then it's bannable. so what you have, which is essentially an autopilot bot, is very very bannable. If I can find the CCP quote I'll link it.
So the solution is to buy a wireless mouse and carry it to the bathroom? Lol alright.
Still doesn't explain why ISboxer isn't banned though. But thats good information, thanks. |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
493
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 23:43:00 -
[52] - Quote
Tippia wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:A player playing on one screen, and having those actions artificially repeated onto 19 other screens is accelerated rate. No. It's still just 20 accounts working at the rate of 20 accounts. No acceleration there.
An AFK mining bot is also just 1 account working at the rate of 1 account, yet that is illegal because the player is not physically doing the work.
By extension one could argue that the player is also not doing the physical work for 19 of the 20 accounts being multiboxed. The player is physically active for 1 account. The other 19 are essentially being AFK botted because it's not the player actually providing the input, it's the program.
Also it is clearly providing an advantage. When there are 20 miners in a belt and you have to activate them all manually it will take you at least a minute to activate all of them by hand. I'm sure with practice it could be done faster, but fact remains that you can never do it instantly across all windows.
So the obvious advantage, no matter how small, is that 1 minute it takes to get to the last window. That single minute you don't have to wait for action to start adds up over time. Do it for long enough and that minute turns into an hour. That hour turns into 6 hours. That 6 hours turns into 12 hours and so forth.
Without automation it is impossible for a player to physically command 20 accounts simultaneously. That's really all there is to it. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
84
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 23:46:00 -
[53] - Quote
LordOfDespair wrote:So I've made this little program that will click my mouse for me every 3 seconds.
I thought I'd use it to click jump to the next gate while I refill a drink or take a quick bathroom break.
What are the rules regarding this? I know that programs that do complex things like mining (lol) are banned obviously. But what about an auto clicker? All it does is just click the mouse.
Thanks!
I have a piece of software that tingles my jiffy every two seconds. Anybody interested?
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Led Zeppelin420
Midnight Plague
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 05:15:00 -
[54] - Quote
20 accounts working at the rate of 20 accounts......
LOLZ come on really ... are you going to try and tell me smoking doesn't cause cancer next
i don't know what this isboxer is nor do i care, but i can tell u that it is macroing, botting whatever u want to call it. Its just the next generation of it. There is no possible way for one preson to run 20 accounts at the same time. unless you have 20 hands and 20 computers and the brain power to do 20 tasks at once. or unless you have to have multiple accounts cuz that makes CCP happy in the pants. |
Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
227
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 05:23:00 -
[55] - Quote
Considering how everyone loves the idea of multiboxing, autoclick software should be allowed.
Even automated botting programs that mine while the player takes a nap.
We love automation here. Hell even a program that analyzes other's fits based off of the memory stored upon their "loading" in should be retrievable and useable. I mean, after killing that person you'd find out what their fit was anyways.
Make some 3rd party programs. If one camp will argue theirs is justified, they all should be justified. Proof of lying in thread.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4349703#post4349703 |
Muestereate
Minions LLC
199
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 05:24:00 -
[56] - Quote
I disagree with a lot of the naysayers but who am I? I think its ok if you do it with a programmable keyboard. I've never looped but checked a while back as far as one key initiating multiple keystrokes consecutively. For incursions, One click turn on my tank. Now if its reading the screen and automating a whole trip warp to zero, I've heard of bans for autopilot infractions. I don't think your talking of that. |
Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
510
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 05:25:00 -
[57] - Quote
gee...how did I know clicking(manually btw) on the last page of this thread, after just reading the title, that it would end up being an isboxer thread
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Sarah McKnobbo
McKnobbo Universal Traders
113
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 07:45:00 -
[58] - Quote
If you do this and CCP detection systems pick it up, i'd put a large wager that you'll get banned. Pointing to a GM said 'ehhhhh maybe' or multiboxers won't help, if they decide to ban you, you're banned! You essentially want to circumvent the auto-pilot facility and the penalty you get for using it.
You want software to input commands with zero human input, that is the main distinction between what you want to do and what multi-boxing software does, multi-boxing requires human input which is then replicated.
But yeah, probably would have been best to keep quiet about it though |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
2732
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 08:24:00 -
[59] - Quote
All these whines about ISBoxer lately, you'd almost think someone...
Wait, never mind, not even worth getting into. The rules are actually quite clear, for anyone that qualifies as a halfwit. Any modification that makes it possible to do stuff in the game without requiring input from the user is what will get you in trouble. ISBoxer doesn't fall into that category, and neither does having multiple accounts logged in simultaneously. If you're jealous that one person is making more isk with multiple accounts than you are with just one, then I suggest moving to China where I hear they still have communism. If you think they aren't putting in the same amount of work per account that it takes to manage one, then I can only recommend attempting it yourself. Unless they are botting, which will get them in trouble.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Muestereate
Minions LLC
200
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 09:15:00 -
[60] - Quote
IS boxer is specifically distributed with a mining bot script |
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