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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
746
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:16:00 -
[301] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Same question here: if that's true, then why do they ban accounts by the thousands if they use tools that break the rules for automation?
you keep replying that without giving any proof for your claims of banned accounts. shut up or give a proof. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20250
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:18:00 -
[302] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:you keep replying that without giving any proof for your claims of banned accounts. Learn to read.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
234
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:18:00 -
[303] - Quote
Well it needs to be reevaluated.
It's giving multiboxers an unfair advantage they would normally not have without the program's existence.
At one point in time it was legal to own people. Things change, and so did the legality.
It's now known that 1 person using software to control 20 accounts gains him an unfair advantage over people trying to control 20 accounts individually. I mean, if there wasn't a need for it, it wouldn't have been invented.
Considering that their own EULA states people aren't allowed to use automation software to help them acquire resources faster than ordinary play, immediately stating afterwards that multi-boxing is allowed is a direct contradiction of their own EULA.
It's very obvious that the reason people using multiboxing programs do so because it helps them control their ships faster/easier/more efficiently. Instead of alt-tabbing between twenty different accounts, they get to control them all with singular keystrokes being automatically multiplied and dispersed to each account. Ordinary game play would be alt tabbing and telling each ship it's commands individually. 3rd party multiboxing software allows it to be done en masse through automation.
They contradict themselves, and the only option is to ask "why?"
$$$$$$$ Proof of lying in thread.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4349703#post4349703 |
illirdor
Upper Class Goat
95
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:19:00 -
[304] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪbecause one is actual automation of gameplay and the other is not. what is automation and what is not is not upon you or CCP, its a well defined term and you can google for it. Tippia wrote:If it were a matter of profit, CCP would allow far more things than multiboxing. The notion that it's about profit becomes downright silly and ignorant when you look at the thousands of accounts they close down on a regular basis. where can I look at those "thousands of closed accounts". Link your source. There is no obvious reason why they allow isboxer, aside of profit. Because they would be otherwise banned.
First of all pumpkin its CCP,s game so yea its up to them to define what they think automation is.
Second why is it that they only get a profit from isBoxer user but not the bot user ??
Soooo this is my sig....-á |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
435
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:19:00 -
[305] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote: It depends on how you measure worth.
They dont have infinate ships.
When was the last time you had to replace a ship (x20) only to lose it again? And again? And again?
Of course Im sure they all have Mining Permits and there would be no need for that to happen
You seem to be unfamiliar with the logistics and organisation required to simultaneously gank 20 ships in high-sec.
The supply of mining ships and modules in high-sec is for all intents and purposes inexhaustible, and they are readily available from the ice-belts in-system stations.
The cost is negligible compared to how fast you recoup the cost once the ship is icing in the field.
I understand you dont "get" it. But thats because you are not accepting the facts or refusing to recognise them. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
435
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:20:00 -
[306] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Learn to read.
She says this atleast 20 times a day.
You'd swear she's an unemployed and bitter English teacher IRL or something. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4742
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:20:00 -
[307] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Considering that their own EULA states people aren't allowed to use automation software to help them acquire resources faster than ordinary play, immediately stating afterwards that multi-boxing is allowed is a direct contradiction of their own EULA.
Tell me, how does multiboxing software allow 20 accounts to acquire resources faster than another 20 accounts? This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20250
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:21:00 -
[308] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Well it needs to be reevaluated.
It's giving multiboxers an unfair advantage they would normally not have without the program's existence. How does this software give (say) 5 accounts an advantage over any other 5 accounts?
Quote:Considering that their own EULA states people aren't allowed to use automation software to help them acquire resources faster than ordinary play, immediately stating afterwards that multi-boxing is allowed is a direct contradiction of their own EULA. GǪexcept for the lack of automation and that it doesn't allow you to acquire resources faster than ordinary play. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
746
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:22:00 -
[309] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Yes it is. They define the scope of the terms they use to describe what is and what isn't allowed in the game. Multiboxing does not count as automation in the eyes of the EULA, same as how nonconsensual violence does not count as griefing. no its not. its a well defined term outside of CCPs world. You missed one important point, we argue not about multiboxing as such but about automated multiboxing isboxer is for.
Tippia wrote:Look up any of the bot banning sprees they've gone on from Unholy Range (2009) and onwards. So if it were about the money, how do you explain that accounts get banned by the thousands? you seriously refering to an even for 5 years? In 2009 the problem of isbox wasnt an issue like it is today, you keep saying CCP bans thousands of accounts on present term but fail to give any proof of it in present time how many accounts CCP is banning TODAY.
Tippia wrote:GǪwhich is an advantage over yourself, not other players. Again, it's still just 5 (or whatever) accounts doing the same thing as any other 5 accounts. it is advantage, you handle a fleet you wouldnt be able to handle without 3rd party software like that. In a multiplayer game your advantage is always over other players.
Tippia wrote:because it doesn't break the rules, unlike automation tools, which get people banned in such large amounts that it impacts server performance and monthly population averages(!). link to bans? isbox is automated tool per common definition. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2405
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:22:00 -
[310] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: You seem to be unfamiliar with the logistics required to simultaneously gank 20 ships in high-sec.
The supply of mining ships and modules in high-sec is for all intents and purposes inexhaustible, and they are readily available from the ice-belts in-system stations.
The cost is negligible compared to how fast you recoup the cost once the ship is icing in the field.
I understand you dont "get" it. But thats because you are not accepting the facts or refusing to recognise them.
I do get it. You really need to get your eyes fixed.
And if 10 Orcas and 5 freighters can be killed in 3 hours in the same system, I think you will find that its you who "doesnt get it".
And stop talking about cost. Cost is irrelevant. I believe I mentioned that already.
But hey, if you cant work out how its done, thats your disability. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
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Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2405
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:23:00 -
[311] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: It's giving multiboxers an unfair advantage
Fact: You are incorrect. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
746
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:24:00 -
[312] - Quote
illirdor wrote: First of all pumpkin its CCP,s game so yea its up to them to define what they think automation is.
yeah, and because its their game they decide whats red or blue, right? Yes, they can allow and do allow isbox despite of its automated nature.
illirdor wrote: Second why is it that they only get a profit from isBoxer user but not the bot user ??
probably because botter were responsible for too much inflation and player anger, isbox hasnt induced similar degree of rage among players yet. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20251
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:27:00 -
[313] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:no its not. its a well defined term outside of CCPs world. GǪand in CCP's world, only CCP's definition matters. By their definition, multiboxing is not automation.
Quote:you seriously refering to an even for 5 years? That was the first large and highly publicised one, that even received its own dev blog. Others have followed, with less fanfare. You can find bits and bobs about them in various fanfest economy and security talks and in the occasional CSM transcript.
What advantage? How do these 5 (or whatever) accounts perform better or do more than any 5 other accounts?
Quote:isbox is automated tool per common definition. GǪwhich is utterly irrelevant since only CCP's definition matters in relation to the EULA CCP has written. Oh, and don't ask for links to information you've already found. It's silly and dishonest. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
746
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:27:00 -
[314] - Quote
Tippia wrote:How does this software give (say) 5 accounts an advantage over any other 5 accounts? because 4 of them are played by isbox and are thus lot faster than clicking them manually. This is why people use it.
Tippia wrote:except for the lack of automation and that it doesn't allow you to acquire resources faster than ordinary play. if it wasnt automated people wouldnt use it. Its the sole purpose of it.
|
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
435
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:28:00 -
[315] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:I do get it. You really need to get your eyes fixed. Talking about avatars, yours resembles an elephants arse. R u mad? *stares at you intently, cross-eyed*
Ramona McCandless wrote:But hey, if you cant work out how its done, thats your disability. Aint worth it.
Hence, proliferation of multibox ice-mining fleets throughout high-sec. Hence TNO. But its still not a profitable endevour to gank them. Thats just how the game is, atm. |
illirdor
Upper Class Goat
95
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:28:00 -
[316] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:illirdor wrote: First of all pumpkin its CCP,s game so yea its up to them to define what they think automation is.
yeah, and because its their game they decide whats red or blue, right? Yes, they can allow and do allow isbox despite of its automated nature. Yea they can, and if you dont like it then stop playing.
Robert Caldera wrote:illirdor wrote: Second why is it that they only get a profit from isBoxer user but not the bot user ??
probably because botter were responsible for too much inflation and player anger, isbox hasnt induced similar degree of rage among players yet.
riiiight.. funny i have never seen ppl rage over botting in the similar degree that they rage over isBoxer.
Soooo this is my sig....-á |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2405
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:30:00 -
[317] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Talking about avatars, yours resembles an elephants arse.
In what way?
Its not grey, or large and it doesnt have a tail.
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Hence, proliferation of multibox ice-mining fleets throughout high-sec. Hence TNO. But its still not a profitable endevour to gank them. Thats just how the game is, atm.
Wtf has profit got to do with it?
If you have a problem with them, kill them.
If you dont, why are you arguing with me? *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20251
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:30:00 -
[318] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:because 4 of them are played by isbox and are thus lot faster than clicking them manually. That's not what I asked. On the one hand, 5 accounts do activity X and pull in assets to the value of Y in Z amount of time. On the other hand, 5 accounts do activity X and pull in assets to the value of Y in Z amount of time. Of these two, which one is using software and how does it provide any advantage over the other?
Quote:if it wasnt automated people wouldnt use it. Its the sole purpose of it. Apparently not, since people use it even though it does not automate any gameplay (which is all that matters). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Whim Aqayn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
105
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:30:00 -
[319] - Quote
Yup isboxer is allowed because it enables a stealth P2W model. CCP Drones can fk off. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
746
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:31:00 -
[320] - Quote
Tippia wrote:and in CCP's world, only CCP's definition matters. By their definition, multiboxing is not automation. with same effect as if they would say red is blue or some similar bullsh**.
Tippia wrote:That was the first large and highly publicised one, that even received its own dev blog. Others have followed, with less fanfare. You can find bits and bobs about them in various fanfest economy and security talks and in the occasional CSM transcript. no, you're talking about banned accounts in present tense, so give a proof of present time policy enforcement and account bans you are talking about all the time.
Tippia wrote:which is utterly irrelevant since only CCP's definition matters in relation to the EULA CCP has written. so how would one understand EULA at all if CCP is using common terms for something they define on their own? |
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4743
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:31:00 -
[321] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:You missed one important point, we argue not about multiboxing as such but about automated multiboxing isboxer is foron.
Oh you mean every time I've used ISboxer I was sitting at my PC pushing buttons for no reason? I had no idea that the program was automated, I'd better go & uninstall it right away. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
435
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:32:00 -
[322] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:In what way?
Its not grey, or large and it doesnt have a tail. In the way that it is scrunched up, has a short tuft of nappy hair, and produces great quantities of steaming ****.
Ramona McCandless wrote:Wtf has profit got to do with it? Lol |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
746
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:33:00 -
[323] - Quote
illirdor wrote:Yea they can, and if you dont like it then stop playing. no, all I'm saying is they allow bots/automation in case of isbox for profit.
illirdor wrote: riiiight.. funny i have never seen ppl rage over botting in the similar degree that they rage over isBoxer.
you may think out some other reason why they allow obvious automated tools, profit is the most obvious for me. |
Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
234
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:33:00 -
[324] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Well it needs to be reevaluated.
It's giving multiboxers an unfair advantage they would normally not have without the program's existence. How does this software give (say) 5 accounts an advantage over any other 5 accounts? Quote:Considering that their own EULA states people aren't allowed to use automation software to help them acquire resources faster than ordinary play, immediately stating afterwards that multi-boxing is allowed is a direct contradiction of their own EULA. GǪexcept for the lack of automation and that it doesn't allow you to acquire resources faster than ordinary play.
Any other 5 accounts is incredibly vague so I'll go ahead and define a scenario for you.
CaptDildong has 5 accounts and he uses ISboxer to control 5 rohks to focus down and kill NPC battleships.
He spends 1 hour controlling 5 accounts farming.
MjrSnozberry, Yakmaster3000, tubularTed, FranksNBeanz, and MongoWantFootball are 5 dudes playing their singular accounts choosing to fly their rohks, focusing down and killing NPC battleships.
They control their 5 accounts seperately, individually for 1 hour peforming said action.
Total manhours spent by CaptDildong performing action: 1 hour
Total manhours spent by 2rude4u Crew: 5 man hours.
So essentially he's saving himself 4 hours, what would take Ordinary Game players a total of 5.
Now the automation involved in multiboxing is sending each of those 5 ships the commands automatically, instead of manually.
Automatically: The player uses isboxer to select the ship to target, the other 4 ships target that ship. The player uses isboxer while telling his ship to fire at targeted ship, telling the other 4 ships to fire at the targeted ship.
Now if he were to do this manually, individually, without the software, he'd have to: Select the ship to target. Alt tab, tell 2nd ship to target. alt tab, tell 3rd ship to target. Alt tab, tell 4th ship to target. alt tab, selected 2nd ship that already targetted, try to find the 5th ship, ok found it, tell it to target. Go to first ship, tell it to fire. Alt tab, go to 2nd ship, tell it to fire. Alt tab, go to 3rd ship, tell it to fire. Alt tab, tell 4th ship to fire. alt tab, selected 3rd ship, this sucks, i hate this, find 5th ship and tell it to fire.
Look at all that saved time, he's just saved himself like 2 minutes worth of time because of that 3rd party software. He's getting all of the benefit of his increased potential by using 5 accounts without any of the drawback of the needing to control those 4 other ships individually. Proof of lying in thread.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4349703#post4349703 |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
746
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:35:00 -
[325] - Quote
Tippia wrote: On the one hand, 5 accounts do activity X and pull in assets to the value of Y in Z amount of time. On the other hand, 5 accounts do activity X and pull in assets to the value of Y in Z amount of time. Of these two, which one is using software and how does it provide any advantage over the other?
with isbox you earn isk at an accelerated manner than playing all 5 accounts manually. earning more isk is advantage over other players.
Tippia wrote: Apparently not, since people use it even though it does not automate any gameplay (which is all that matters).
why people use it then, if not for automating their clients. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2405
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:35:00 -
[326] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: In the way that it is scrunched up, has a short tuft of nappy hair, and produces great quantities of steaming ****.
I see the level of converstion you wish to have, and as I am older than 5 years old, I think I shall desist conversing with you. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
746
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:36:00 -
[327] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote: Oh you mean every time I've used ISboxer I was sitting at my PC pushing buttons for no reason? I had no idea that the program was automated, I'd better go & uninstall it right away.
you click buttons on your main client, on the remaining 5,10,20,50 isbox is clicking for you. This is per definition form of automation. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4744
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:36:00 -
[328] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:with isbox you earn isk at an accelerated manner than playing all 5 accounts manually. earning more isk is advantage over other players
Wait, so not only is ISboxer entirely automated according to you, but it also some how makes isk in an accelerated manner? Please share your secret to this! This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
435
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:36:00 -
[329] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:I see the level of converstion you wish to have, and as I am older than 5 years old, I think I shall desist conversing with you.
*comes at me for avatar being cross-eyed (lol)* *gets mad for pointing out she looks like an elephants anus herself*
Cya! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20251
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 09:37:00 -
[330] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:with same effect as if they would say red is blue or some similar bullsh**. No, with the effect that when they make a rule against automation of gameplay, they and they alone decide what qualifies. Something that requires player input to do anything does not qualify.
Quote:no, you're talking about banned accounts in present tense, so give a proof of present time policy enforcement and account bans you are talking about all the time. Check out the security section in the last CSM minutes.
Quote:so how would one understand EULA at all if CCP is using common terms for something they define on their own? By listening to their very clear explanation of what they mean. Such as them saying that if it requires player input to do anything, it is not automation. Such as them saying that multiboxing (even software- or hardware-assisted) does not qualify. It is not hard to find and it has been probably their most consistent enforcement policy for many years now.
Quote:you click buttons on your main client, on the remaining 5,10,20,50 isbox is clicking for you. This is per definition form of automation. Not per any definition that matters. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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